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View Full Version : Webley revolver ID help please


jrfoxx
August 11, 2008, 07:02 PM
I'm looking at buying a neat, owner believes possibly German or Austrian
webley patent revolver, but I'm no Webley expert by any means, and the current owner doesn't know a whole lot either, so I'm hoping someone here can fill in some info. I'm told it has a 1 3/4" barrel, folding trigger, Proof marks visible are a Crown over "PN", crown over a shield, and it's dated 1941. I'm told a .32 S&W wont fit, nor will .32acp,he says both are too big, and believes its .320 cal (?). I like oddities, and the Webley guns are that special kind of ugly like Nagant revolvers, and I've been wanting one for a while, and the price seems right, and I finally have the $$ available, so...:D

Anyone able to ID this gun and it's correct ammo/caliber?

Thanks, as I'm not finding a lot with google.

ETA:from digging around, it appears to be of the "Bulldog" type/style/model, and my copy of Cartridges of the World does show a round called ".320 Revolver" (bullet dia. of .317, which explains the .32's being "too big", but it looking like .32 cal), which it says was designed originally for the Webley's, and was the inspiration for the 32 Short Colt.Not finding anything on the crown over P.N. though (the crown is common to several countries, but nothing found on P.N. specifically)

Also, assuming I cant find ammo, or it's way too expensive, anybody know what I can use to make some? heres the stats on .320 Revolver:

bullet dia: .317 neck dia: .320 no shoulder base dia: .322 rim dia: .350 case length: .62 ctg length: .90 bullet is apparently 80gr.

I'm having trouble finding something that can just be cut down to work, but this isnt my forte, and there may be other possible tricks I dont really know much about like fire-forming, blowing a smallr ctg. out, etc.

Doing a search here does kind of confirm the "Bulldog" style and cartridge to be correct, but thats all I'm real certain on. Any help on where to get ammo, coutry of origin/proof marks, and if ammo can be made from something else, what, and how would be much appreciated.

Here's the pics I have available:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b289/jrfoxx/misc/webley-1.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b289/jrfoxx/misc/webley2.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b289/jrfoxx/misc/webley3.jpg

Jim Watson
August 11, 2008, 07:36 PM
Webley don't do no stinkin folding triggers.
The proof marks are Italian for black powder. You can tell the quality by the fact that the maker was not willing to put his name on it. I am surprised they were making cheap pocket pistols with WW II well under way.

.32 Short Colt is about your only hope for ammunition.

jrfoxx
August 11, 2008, 07:56 PM
I'm aware it isnt a true British Webley, just a foreign Webley pattern knockoff, or maybe they did actually pay royalties on the Webley pattented/designed parts they used (which looks to be the "bulldog" style, and specifically the ejection mechanism). Who knows. That was why I called it a Webley "patent" revolver,as thats what the owner called it, and the term seems to come up occasionally during my info searching, but I'm not sure if thats the correct terminology.

Also, wasnt sure if Webley's ever did a folding trigger or not, as there are a ton of folding trigger guns out there being called "Webley", made by european countries that arent Britain that have them, so I didnt know if any of the the British ones had them or not. As I said, I know little about Webley's, other than I dont have one, and I think they look neat, as do folding triggers.

I'm surprised about the black powder proof. 1941 seems aweful late to still be loading BP (unless I'm just misunderstanding the proffing process).

Thanks. Thats why I came here and THR before buying.always best to get info first on something you dont know much at all about, instead of just being impulsive and buying (I'll bet we've all done that at least once.Guns are an evil temptresss.:D) For $100 shipped, I figured it was worth asking about.

Oh, and would 32 Short Colt actually fit safely? The rim dia is listed as being .024" wider and the ctg as .10 longer, but with case length only .01 longer. I see people saying they are interchangeable, but was leary of that based on the rim dia. if nothing else.

Jim Watson
August 11, 2008, 11:06 PM
Glad you spotted that. I had not referred to CotW.
That dinky little cylinder might not take any bigger rim.

James K
August 12, 2008, 03:13 AM
I, too, am astonished that such a gun was made as late as 1941, even in Italy, so much so that I wonder if 1941 is not a serial number, or maybe a registration date of some kind. Any gun made in Italy in 1941 should have the Italian "Mussolini" date in Roman numbers, which that gun does not have.

FWIW, those guns were in their hayday from about 1880 up to WWI; they sold in Europe for the equivalent of $2 or so.

.32 Short Colt should fit, and maybe .32 Long Colt also, but neither is currently made and the Short is in the collector category. In any case, I would recommend not firing it. It was a cheap, poor quality gun on day one and time has probably not improved it any.

Jim

Gbro
August 12, 2008, 10:01 PM
It somewhat resembles the German Randfeuer Revolver.
Interesting that as knocked around as it looks there isn't a mark from the cylinder lock.