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Firepower!
July 27, 2008, 11:57 AM
How do we improve pistol?

I have spent tons of cartridges from my HK P2000 this week from 172 feet.

So far I am not able to tigthen up the group within a 10 inches. Am I stretching the distance too much for 9mm?

From 25-50 feet I am able to hit with significant consistancy a group of 10 bullets withing 4 inches.

I would appreciate any techniques and experiences shared.

Threefeathers
July 27, 2008, 12:20 PM
Hi I've posted this before but will again. I have 2 HK P2K's 9mm and 40/357Sig. I couldn't hit a bull in the ass from 5 feet with either of them. That coming from someone who shot Bullseye, Steel Challange, etc for years. I was shocked.

Then I ran into several DPS folks who were blowing the hell out of the middle. They gave me several drills that made an unblelivable difference.

Mine are all LEM and that is all I will get in an HK from now on.

1. Dry fire, make certain you concentrate on the front sight, watch the sight throughout the movement of your trigger finger.
2. When you shoot live pull the trigger and hold it back until you bring the sigt back on target then stage the trigger just enough to hear it lovk and then pull again. You have a very short reset and if you have dry fired so that you can keep your sights true you can extend the distance rapidly.

The reason I like the 357Sig round is that it is the flatest shooting combat handgun round I've ever fired. It is the one bullet that I know I can make the head shot if necessary, or the head of a Diamondback.

ECHOONE
July 30, 2008, 01:33 PM
You must be practicing for target shooting. way to far for defensive shooting.I dry fire everyday each day I try to cover something different,breathing tehnique,trigger pull,draw,sight alighnmet you get the picture,save during the yr so that atleast once a yr I can go get professional training,that helps me the most in finding out if I picked up any bad habits and someone else can always see what your doing wrong faster then you can pickup on it. I started using a new firing technique this yr.Taught to me by Paul Castle of Sabre tactical you can go to his web site and read all about it, sabretactical.com using the C.A.R. sysrem truly increased my accuracy over any other shooting techinques I used in the past and I had 3 yrs of military training and I wasn't driving trucks if you get what I mean. but I always found dryfiring helpled me out alot but dont do it for more then 15-20 minutes a day.pick one thing to practice builing on and concentrate fully on that onyl for 20 minutes.you'll be suprised how much it helps,always bring targets home with you from live firings and make sure you put comments on them pertaining to your groups and what you think you did wrong so you can evaluate them later and decide what was causing the problems so you can work on them. Thats what I do hope I helped you in some way.

Ledbetter
July 30, 2008, 01:43 PM
Buy a .22 pistol. You will shoot a lot more and practice makes perfect.

darkgael
July 30, 2008, 08:46 PM
"from 172 feet."
You were shooting at nearly 60 yards with a combat 9mm. Is that correct? If so, I think that 10 inches with 9mm ball ammo out of that gun is nice shooting. Whatever the HKP2K is, it isn't a target pistol; at least it is not much seen in what is called "conventional" pistol shooting. Were you shooting one handed or two?
Pete

evan1293
July 30, 2008, 10:40 PM
"from 172 feet."
You were shooting at nearly 60 yards with a combat 9mm. Is that correct? If so, I think that 10 inches with 9mm ball ammo out of that gun is nice shooting.


+1. Thats not bad. The gun's mechanical accuracy at that distance alone will cause a bit of a spread. Factoring in some human error thats not a bad size grouping if shot unsupported.

jackmcmanus21
July 31, 2008, 09:40 AM
I wish I was within 10 inches from that far away

U.S.SFC_RET
July 31, 2008, 08:23 PM
Get a sheet of printing paper and mark a big plus sign about the size of this.
+
and stand back about 15 feet away and dry fire while focusing at the front sight. You will see the front sight move. Practice until the front sight doesn't move any longer. Repeat.
When you are shooting you will hardly ever notice the front sight move no matter what you think.

Jeff #111
April 7, 2010, 04:55 PM
Echoone

I dry fire everyday each day I try to cover something different,breathing tehnique,trigger pull,draw,sight alighnmet you get the picture,save during the yr so that atleast once a yr I can go get professional training,that helps me the most in finding out if I picked up any bad habits and someone else can always see what your doing wrong faster then you can pickup on it. I always found dryfiring helpled me out alot but dont do it for more then 15-20 minutes a day.pick one thing to practice builing on and concentrate fully on that onyl for 20 minutes.you'll be suprised how much it helps.

I'm a big advocate of dry firing. It works and it's cheaper - especially nowdays. I tell officers in my department to practice dry firing and use it as a way to work on various techniques. I also tell them no more than fifteen or twenty minutes three or four times a week. But even once or twice a week is better than nothing.

Deaf Smith
April 7, 2010, 06:54 PM
Firepower!,

Yes 172 feet is 57+ yards, and while most combat pistols will still stay on the chest of a IPSC target, that still is a mite far.

Now 25-50 feet is much better. 8+ yards. Still 10 inch groups at 8 yards is not a group to brag.

Ok, like others have said, dry fire helps. And threefeathers gives good advice.

Unfortunatly the HK P2000 is not made with a .22 converstion unit.

Can you shoot a .22 better than the HK P2000? Or have you tried shooting other pistols in the same cartridge at the same 8+ yards and shot better?

What I'm trying to do is isolate the reason. If the HK P2000 is the problem and you shoot other guns much better then, well, that indicates a solution.

But, if you still get the same groups, then it's shooting technique.

Go to youtube and search for 'pistol shooting technique'. Lots of videos there.

Same for google videos.

And get a .22. The cost of ammo will pay for the gun!

darkgael
April 7, 2010, 09:16 PM
Jeff and Deaf: Your advice is fine....but you do realize that the last post prior to yours was 20 months ago. Firepower, however, does post here regularly still so he will get the advice.
IIRC, he just picked up a FiveSeven.
Pete

old bear
April 8, 2010, 08:37 AM
As I was not a member of T.F.L. 20 months ago, I found the information to be very timely, thanks all.

Jeff #111
April 8, 2010, 04:37 PM
old bear

As I was not a member of T.F.L. 20 months ago, I found the information to be very timely, thanks all.

And that was why I brought this thread back from the dead. I usually leave them buried, but I thought this one had some valid information in it.

Firepower!
April 8, 2010, 04:48 PM
Guys,
Thanks fo some great advice. I sold HKP2K a while back. Hmmm didnt realize that 10" wasnt bad at 60 yards. I did shoot my G19 and surprisingly it shot much better that distance. I will see how I do with FiveSeven in coming weeks when I had out to country. I am not into targets. I like to shoot well with combat guns. However, i am considering 226x6 for occassional playing.

B. Lahey
April 8, 2010, 04:56 PM
That's about as well as I can do shooting unsupported with the pistol I shoot best.:)

But there is always room for improvement. In addition to regular dry-fire practice try balancing various coins on top of the gun while you dry-fire. It's good for trigger control, follow-through, and pretty much everything else.

darkgael
April 8, 2010, 05:11 PM
try balancing various coins on top of the gun while you dry-fire. It's good for trigger control, follow-through, and pretty much everything else

I have trouble just balancing the coin.
Peter

Hard Ball
April 8, 2010, 09:25 PM
To me 25-50 feet is point shooting range.

Firepower!
April 10, 2010, 09:47 PM
Theoratically speaking, would an inch and half longer barrel add to accuracy?

What about these x5 and x6 sigs in the market?

darkgael
April 11, 2010, 05:15 AM
Theoretically, yes. The longer sight radius should result in greater precision, all other things being equal. On a short barreled weapon like a pistol, 1.5 inches is a substantial increase. Take that 5-7 that you just picked up with it's 4.8" barrel. Add 1.5" - that is a 30% increase. Will it improve accuracy by 30%?....that part is shooter dependent but theoretically it should make better accuracy easier to achieve.
Pete

smince
April 12, 2010, 06:00 AM
Funny, but at the last defensive handgun course I took, we were shooting at 1/2 size silhouettes at around 100 yds (300 ft) and everyone was hitting them regularly. We had a pretty eclectic mix of guns, too.

I was hitting well with both a Glock 26 and 19.