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Firepower!
July 3, 2008, 02:20 AM
I would like see what, in your opinion/experience, are the top 5 select fire rifles in the world at this time.

Please list them in order of preference.

Here is my list:

1. Ak 47
2. M4
3. G3
4. Sig 552
5. Styer AUG

I had hard time leaving out AKSU74 and G36.

rkba_net
July 3, 2008, 09:50 AM
The G3 is not an assault rifle...

Crosshair
July 3, 2008, 08:27 PM
The only reason the M-16/M-4 makes the list IMHO is from the number produced. Not because of the design.

Michael A. Le Lack
July 3, 2008, 08:49 PM
Why do WE call them ASSUALT rifles? Are we not falling into the liberal trap and hurting ourselves?:confused:

guntotinguy
July 3, 2008, 08:53 PM
AK's for sure...

Firepower!
July 4, 2008, 02:38 AM
ok...automatic rifles then!

M4 is very handy and accurate. Just the numbers produced does not push it in the list. Select fire on M4 is amazingly smooth.

Silvanus
July 4, 2008, 06:26 AM
Why do WE call them ASSUALT rifles? Are we not falling into the liberal trap and hurting ourselves


Because that's what they are...

"Assault weapons" on the other hand is a stupid term invented by the media.

imp
July 4, 2008, 06:39 AM
I'm probably going to make someone mad, but I don't see how the AK makes the list. Maybe because its easy to teach a 10 year old how to shoot...otherwise they are garbage. The trigger sucks, they are not accurate, the sight radius is way too short, the safety is awkward to operate, the mags have to be rocked into position. I suppose it does have a few things going for it, reliability and cheap ammo. I'm just not terribly fond of the rifle myself, especially when there are so many good rifles out there.

flyby
July 4, 2008, 07:40 AM
Yep the G3 is an MBR ..so you can throw your G36 back in the mix ;)

Firepower!
July 4, 2008, 07:58 AM
I can understand some of these disadvantages of AK47 regardless if I agree with them or not, but I cant understand how it does not make the top 5 list. Can you list your top 5 without some repetition of smiliar things, please?

I also do not agree that AK is not accurate. I have fired AK extensively and I can (INS) drop a target at 200 yarfs with iron sights. Thats pretty good since most combat is within that range.

Then there is now historical value of AK since it just revalutionized the way automatice rifles are made.

G3KA3 is pretty handy and powerful rifle so cant throw it out just yet. G36 is great but I have a few in list chambering 5.56mmx45.

dalegribble
July 4, 2008, 08:38 AM
I watched a show on the military channel that rated the top 10 battle rifles of all time. The top gun was the AK-47, the man said if he could have only 1 gun it would be the AK-47, second was the M-16. I don't remember all the others or their order but the M1 Garrand was near the top, the M-14 was #10 I believe, the Enfield was near the middle, the FN-Fal was listed along with the Mauser and 1903 Springfield. A few that didn't make it were the G3 and the Mosin. It was on TV so it must be true.

jughead2
July 4, 2008, 07:35 PM
i will stick with my aug thank you. i personally am more accurate with it than any of the others. i do have most of them. oh none are full auto though. just cant afford that wish i could.

guntotinguy
July 4, 2008, 08:37 PM
I also do not agree that AK is not accurate. I have fired AK extensively and I can (INS) drop a target at 200 yarfs with iron sights. Thats pretty good since most combat is within that range.

+ 1,in full agreement with this...

Lavid2002
July 4, 2008, 10:32 PM
The only reason the M-16/M-4 makes the list IMHO is from the number produced. Not because of the design.
Ever stop to think the two might be related :D Or are all people who produce them just hopping on the bandwagon :p

Anyways....why cant we mix and match!?
The battle for
AK VS M16 Has been drawn out for years. Why cant we just mix them completely...none of this...maybe well change this. Oh how about this. I mean completely combine features.
*Make the magazine well with the m16 type so they can be easily, and quickly SLAPPED into the rifle.
*Use the ar15 type locking lug system so the receiver can still be made out of a light metal.
*Use a piston type ar15, get rid of the gas tube and bcg key and stop $#!tting where you ear mr M16!
*Up the cartridge size to have the "power" of the ak47, to something close to it. Like .308, another 7.62[ar-10 I know...but with THESE goodies] (Uppers are already made)
*Stay with the aperture sights, but with an m4 rail so the rifle can have numerous optics
*You know how windows in some cars are push down a little, it will go up or down till you let go. And if you push hard enough it will click and automatically roll all the way down...why not design a triger around this principle?
*Moly stock, get rid of the wood ak....gettin old IMHO Molys where its at : D
Thts all I got for tonight. Got up at 4:30 and worked a 13 hour shift at the boat yard I work at....people love 4th of july. HAPPY HOLIDAYS ALL!
-dave

Crosshair
July 4, 2008, 11:37 PM
*You know how windows in some cars are push down a little, it will go up or down till you let go. And if you push hard enough it will click and automatically roll all the way down...why not design a triger around this principle?
Because a panicked trooper in an ambush will jerk the trigger and expend their entire supply of ammo in about 2 minutes. The AK wisely has the safety selector go from "safe" to "auto" to "semi". A panicked soldier will slap the selector all the way down to "semi", the correct choice for a high stress environment.

.351winchester
July 5, 2008, 01:06 AM
Kalashnikov incl. Galil
Stoner/AR
FNC
AUG
AR-70/7
Sig 550 series


6 in no order off the top of my severely drunken mind

Firepower!
July 5, 2008, 01:49 AM
Lavid2002....are you thinking Daewoo's K2?

mini4m3
July 5, 2008, 02:54 PM
1) AK47 series (including ak74s etc)
2) M16 series (including AR10)
3) Tavor
4) FNC
5) Galil

Lavid2002
July 5, 2008, 03:01 PM
Lavid2002....are you thinking Daewoo's K2?
Eh...not really. It still has the same .223 rem round. It has the reliability...but the two things I would say the ak has over the ar15 are reliability and firepower. This lacks firepower.

BrunoNorway
July 5, 2008, 04:40 PM
1) G-3 i dont care if you call it a "main battle rifle" or a "assult rifle" :p
2) FN-FAL
3) AK-47
4) M-4
5) G-36

daveydoo
July 5, 2008, 08:59 PM
1.ak-47 -Most common assault rifle
2.m14 -Built like tank
3.galil- Isreal found the weaknesses of the fn and improved it
4.ak-5- Swedes awesome rifle
5.fn-fal- well could not think of another to fill the spot.

ronl
July 5, 2008, 11:09 PM
1- Sig 550's reliable and very accurate
2-AK-47 you pull the trigger and it fires every time
3- M-16 accurate and the most adaptable platform on earth
4-FAMAS it may be ugly but it is well balanced and accurate
5-M-14 just thought I'd throw in a .308 MBR and that is my favorite one accurate, reliable and making a comeback

Crosshair
July 6, 2008, 12:48 AM
3- M-16 accurate and the most adaptable platform on earth
The problem is that the military doesn't use that adaptability. It is in the civilian market where that is used.

The don't issue 9mm subgun uppers with 8" barrels for CQC. They don't issue 50 Beowulf uppers for anti-vehicle checkpoints. There are plenty of accessories for the AR-15, but that is not unique to that platform. Years ago there was little available for AK owners. Today the number of accessories for the AK is just as much as the AR-15.

T. O'Heir
July 6, 2008, 02:09 AM
"...The G3 is not an assault rifle..." Neither are any of the others except for the AK. An assualt rifle is a select fire rifle chambered in the same calibre as the regular PBI rifle with a smaller case. There have been exactly two. The STG44 and the AK47. The rest are battle rifles.
However, the question isn't about 'assualt' rifles. It's about select fire rifles. Firepower's 1, 2 and maybe 3 with the proviso of the M4 being a variation of the M16, isn't far off. Mind you, the Belgian made FAL is up there too.
"...watched a show on the military channel that rated the top 10 battle rifles of all time..." The Military Channel is known as the American Propaganda Re-Run Channel, up here. Not exactly a reliable source for anything. It's TV. They've been airing the same shows over and over since 2004.

flyby
July 6, 2008, 11:39 AM
Neither are any of the others except for the AK. An assualt rifle is a select fire rifle chambered in the same calibre as the regular PBI rifle with a smaller case
Heh?
The definition of an assault rifle caliber would be Any intermediate(by definition) powered cartridge ..Not Just 7.62x39 or 7.92x33 Kurz, 5.56 qualifies (even if barely) ..in a Carbine size, Select fire, hi cap rifle.
Apparently .30 carbine falls short powerwise and was considered to close to pistol powered than an in between rifle and pistol power ..otherwise the select-fire version M2 carbines could have qualified also .

MBR's(main battle rifles) use Full-power carts ie: 7.62x51, 7.92x57 etc..
Not the calibers first mentioned here other than the G3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rifle

Robs22
July 6, 2008, 12:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvrG4T2K4sE

rampage841512
July 6, 2008, 04:55 PM
I'd agree that those all should be in the top ten RIFLES, but I don't agree with the rankings or some of the classification. Boltguns assualt rifles? Maybe in their time, but not now. If your going to include bolt action rifles yous should be including Kentucky Rifles too, IMHO. The FAL should have beat out both the M16 and the AK47, as well.

flyby
July 6, 2008, 05:35 PM
^Actually that video uses the loose term 'combat rifles' to include any 20th century military rifle used for fighting ..instead of using more specific classifications like 'Assault' or 'Battle' rifles.

taylora
July 19, 2008, 09:39 PM
Steyer Aug best gun ive ever fired
AK
M16
MP44 just cause i wont one
AR18

44 AMP
July 20, 2008, 04:57 PM
The German Sturmgewehr (MP 43/44/Stg 44) is the prototypical assault rifle. The salient features are select fire, and intermediate size cartridge (more than a pistol, less than the standard WWII infantry rifle round).

Sturmgewehr translates to "Assault rifle". it could also be translated as "Storm rifle".

Most assault rifles have straight line stocks (or close to it), pistol grips, large capacity detachable magazines, flash suppressors/muzzle brakes, bayonet lugs, and may feature synthetic stocks. These features, while common, do not determine if a rifle fits in the assault rifle catgegory. Only the caliber, and the ability for select fire make it an assault rifle.

Semiauto rifles (or handguns) which have straight line stocks (or close to it), pistol grips, large capacity detachable magazines, flash suppressors/muzzle brakes, bayonet lugs, magazines which do not enter the pistol grip, and may feature synthetic stocks are classed in the media (and in some US law) as "assault weapons", a term made up entirely based on the cosmetic features of the gun, not on the caliber or the function. Assault weapon is an anti-gunner BS term and we should not use it.

Assault rifle is a proper firearms term (in use since 1944/45) and when used in the correct context is entirely proper.

Select fire rifles using a full power round are generally called "battle rifles". Full auto rifles (without semi auto function) are called "automatic rifles" in general use, but under US legal definition are machine guns, as are assault rifles, because of the ability for full auto fire.

Assault pistol is another BS anti gunner term, and we should not use it. Small automatic rifles firing pistol caliber ammo are submachine guns. Because they fire full auto, under US law they are classed as machine guns for legal purposes. Full auto handguns are rare (very few models made), and under US law would also be machineguns.

Calling an AR-15 an assault rifle is wrong. It is incorrect. Calling it an assault weapon is drinking the anti-gunners kool-aid. It was technically correct, under the definitions of the 1994 AWB, but that bill has sunset in 2004, and no longer has any legal standing. Calling an M16 an assault rifle is correct.

The only oddball in the definitions is the M2 Carbine. Remember the definitions come from the WWII era when the assault rifle was first fielded(except for those made up by the antis), and at that time, the .30 carbine round was considered an oversize pistol round, and was not included in the pistol category (being more powerful than standard pistol rounds, and with no pistols made for it, at the time). Likelwise, it was not big (powerful) enough to be considered an intermediate power round, so it was not included in the assault rifle category. Neither fish nor fowl, nor good red meat, the full auto (select fire) M2 carbine got classed all by itself for definitions, but is considered a machinegun under US law.

So, if your select fire rifle chambers the 7.92x33, the 7.62x39, the 5.56mm, or some equivalent round, it can be an assault rifle. If it chambers the 7.62x51, the 7.62x54R, the .30-06, the 8x57, the 7x57 or some equivalent round, it is not an assault rifle, and it is incorrect and improper to refer to it as such.

ARE WE CLEAR ON THIS?

Michael A. Le Lack
July 20, 2008, 05:45 PM
Please.see.post.#4,less.words.same.thought.:rolleyes:

imp
July 25, 2008, 01:26 AM
Well..if there is only 2 true assault rifles, why do we have a thread titled "Top 5 Assault Rifles!"???

Catchabullet
July 25, 2008, 04:10 AM
H&K 416.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gZpZryZEiY4&feature=related

republican24/7
July 25, 2008, 08:57 AM
How about the Sturmgewer 44...? The grandfather of all assault rifles?

Firepower!
July 25, 2008, 09:59 AM
Well if people read the posts before typing less than intelligent and redundant posts, they will realize that I have changed the term assualt to automatic after nonchalant whinning.

An automatic rifle that I use for assualt formation is an assualt rifle for me regardless of what you guys say.

I practically live in war zone with automatic weapons unlike ppl who are commenting non stop on terms and yet have not been in a combat ever.

This is as polite I can be to tell folks out their to get a life.

Crosshair
July 25, 2008, 10:42 PM
How about the Sturmgewer 44...? The grandfather of all assault rifles?
Not really. The design was very German (Overly complicated) and it was not a very durable rifle (The sheet metal receiver was easily bent.) Still, it was the first assault rifle that was fielded in significant quantities.

Catchabullet
July 26, 2008, 12:28 AM
i still say the 416

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS
July 26, 2008, 12:56 AM
Actually Crosshair, the weak points on the MP-44 do not include a weak receiver. It's not as easily dented as you think. The problems with the MP-44 include complicated mechanism in pistol grip (though it's very reliable), weak buttstock connection (using the MP-44 as a club will break it as easily as a M-16), and the 7.92x33 round's bullet is a bit too heavy for the powder charge (Russian 7.62x39 is superior). The MP-44 is also a bit longer and bulkier than the AK-47. It's darn good for a gun that was developed so quickly and rushed into production, but it was doomed primarily by a lack of ammo produced for it.

Southern_guy
July 26, 2008, 02:57 AM
I'd go for:

1. AK-47
2. M-16
3. FN FAL
4. Steyr AUG
5. M14
6. AK-74
7. P90

Crosshair
July 26, 2008, 01:35 PM
It's not as easily dented as you think.
Hmm, I always read that it suffered in the durability department.

hknut
July 27, 2008, 08:28 PM
1) M14
2) HK 91
3) FN/FAL
4) M16 family
5) AK family

Firepower!
July 31, 2008, 12:08 PM
hknut, since we are talking automatic rifles may be you ought to replace hk91 with G3.

I think G3 is heavy but a heck of a power tool. I shot ten mags today on select. Its just awesome. I guess I like the 308 BANG!

hknut
August 1, 2008, 01:42 AM
If you live in a full auto state, you can have a full auto 91.