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View Full Version : Cased Browning .410 Superposed Value?


Warpath
June 9, 2008, 06:48 PM
Cased Browning .410 Superposed Value? 1968 I believe with original case and in excellent condition showing moderate use. First of these I've seen and I believe it's a pretty nice shotgun, but not my normal area of collecting. Thanks for the help. Ed

Warpath
June 9, 2008, 06:50 PM
more pics

BigJimP
June 9, 2008, 06:59 PM
What is the length of the barrel ? The marks on the barrls are * * $ and they look the same on both barrels so both top and bottom barrels are choked "skeet". Looking at the gun it looks to me like it has 26" barrels on it.

1968 Citori, skeet, skeet - decent shape - 26" barrels - looks like a monte carlo stock without an adjustable comb - and in my area I think it is proably worth $ 500 - $ 600.

These days - 26" barrels are just not preferred. Personally I like a 30" barrel on a skeet gun - and without an adj comb there isn't much adjustability on this gun. The other problem is most skeet shooters want the same weight, length of pull, feel, height of rib, etc on all 4 guns ( 12, 20, 28 and .410 ) in their competition guns - so this one is going to be lighter, different rib, probably different length of pull - etc . Your market is going to be with someone that wants a fast swinging field gun in a .410 .

Warpath
June 9, 2008, 07:03 PM
28 inch barrels and stamped * * $ on rear left side...Fixed chokes I am sure. Ed

BigJimP
June 9, 2008, 07:09 PM
28" makes it a little more desireable - but only adds about $ 50 in my opinion. ( I edited my notes above ) when I looked closely at the barrel marks on your photos.

oneounceload
June 9, 2008, 07:41 PM
IF it is a 1968, check for salt wood - IIRC, that occurred between 66 and 72 or thereabouts....if clean, looks nice

Warpath
June 9, 2008, 08:19 PM
Link to more Browning Shotgun images


http://warpathinc.winkflash.com

hogdogs
June 10, 2008, 10:14 AM
While I am not a collector nor a clay sports shooter... that is the one "classy" shootin' iron to catch my eye... I would love to have it in my closet! I love the .410 even with all it's limitations. A Mossberg .410 bolt action with poly choke was, afterall, my first firearm!
Brent

gordo b.
June 10, 2008, 04:08 PM
Line all those "$500-600" .410 Superposed cased skeet sets up for me please! I can easily double(instantly) or triple my investment. FYI there were no 'salt wood' Japanese guns ever made. The Belgian guns are worth more but you do need to remove the forestock to check for rust at wood contact on all square pistol grip belgian made guns.Sounds like it is this gun:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=101985403

$1500 first bid is very realistic!

johnbt
June 10, 2008, 04:32 PM
Every single Superposed I ever see in a shop is $1000 or $2000 and up.

I'd like this factory refinished one please.

"Browning Superposed 410. 26" sk & sk. Factory refinished. Looks new. Very attractive wood. 14 1/4 LOP butt plate."

Only $5500.

www.crosnoeguns.com/itemdetail.asp?ID=3482

Warpath
June 11, 2008, 01:25 PM
May be a silly question, but is there any other way to get the .410 superposed handguard off to examine the metal other than removing the end screw??? This screw has not been turned and I need to look under the wood. Thanks, Ed

BigJimP
June 11, 2008, 04:00 PM
My apologies on the value I gave you - I missed that it was a superposed, Belgium made - vs the Japanese made Citori.

Grade 1 Superposed - .410 28" - fixed chokes - values are in the $ 1,500 - $3,000 in my opinion. Since it is Belgium made - you do have to check to make sure it does not have salt wood in it. I like the .410 a lot - and I have a couple of them - but I can't say I've ever thought the Belgium made guns were that much better than the Japanese guns so I will also admit my values could be conservative and certainly biased.

With fixed chokes this gun isn't attractive to everyone - its really a skeet gun. It would be hard to use this gun in the field or for sporting clays - where I want to be able to change my chokes depending on what I'm doing. If you're buying it because you love it / will use it that's one thing. If you are buying it for an investment and hope to turn it for a profit - that's a lot tough to do - especially with a fixed choke gun in .410 / but I don't think you told us what the seller wants for it either.

Personally, my primary .410 is a Browning XS Skeet in 30" barrels (made on the 20ga receiver) - so I have 3 guns all the same weight 20ga, 28ga and the .410 - and you can buy that gun for $ 2,750 or so. Its Japanese made - but the adjustable comb, invector plus screw in chokes, longer barrels, back bored, etc make a little more versatile for fit and use in the field, sporting clays, or for skeet in my view.

For big time registered skeet shooters - the dominant system these days is the Krieghoff K-80 / where you get a 12ga barrel / then a carrier barrel that can only be shot with 20ga, 28ga and .410 full length tube inserts into the barrel. That way the weight, trigger, rib, comb etc. are all identical. Its a much better system than having 4 guns, like I do, or a 4 barrel set - but its expensive ( $20,000 + ) . The tubes are also fit with screw in chokes. Some guys will use the same setup for sporting clays as well - but there aren't that many sub-gauge sporting clays events around - mostly they just shoot a 12 ga in the main event - and once or twice a year they enter a sub-gague event for the fun of it. Its also common these days for a guy to buy a standard Browning XS Skeet in 12ga - and then buy the full length tube sets for 20, 28 and .410 even though the tubes make it about a 10 or 12 oz heavier gun ( and they will often shoot a 20ga tube set in a 12ga skeet event ) so they don't have to deal with the lighter gun in one event vs the other 3 events. Its a lot cheaper than going with a full carrier barrel setup.

No matter what - good luck on your decision / hope you love it and shoot it well if you decide to buy it.

oneounceload
June 11, 2008, 04:33 PM
Big Jim - the Belgian guns usually have better made, or "struck" barrels, leading to better balance and swing characteristics; they usually also have better hand-fitting and finishing....Japanese guns are good, they just don't have the hand-fitting qualities that most folks put a premium on....

Guns America has superposed 410's in the 4-6 K range

Warpath
June 11, 2008, 04:41 PM
Thanks for the input...first of this type I've owned and a neat gun although the disassembly has me Beat! Need to remove hand guard safely and it appears to be untouched as I am told to check for salt wood rust on this one.

BigJimP
June 11, 2008, 06:46 PM
OneOunce - I understand your point but I just respectfully don't agree.

Browning has been my primary Over/Under style shotgun for well over 35years - I've owned a couple of Belgium made Broadways and they were fine guns / although I have since sold them - and honestly, I thought they were a little nose heavy. As far as my primary Browning Over Unders today for Skeet, Trap, Sporting Clays and field shooting - I have 5 Browning Citori XS Skeet models ( 2 in 12ga, 1 20, 1 28, 1 .410) - 2 Browning XT models for trap, one with a grade IV stock upgrade and gracoil system - a BT 99 gold - a special engraved BT-100 gold - 2 Browning field grade Citori's 12, 28ga ... They are all Japanese citori's and I think the balance, fit and finish and quality of the wood is very good - even on some of my older standard models. I'm not saying the Japanese guns are perfect - but the balance is pretty good / and the balance point is pretty consistent among the various guns in each model I own. Maybe I've just been lucky, don't really know. My set of Citori XS-Skeet models in particular - have been workhorses for me for the last 5 or 6 years.

Personally, I think the market is inflated on the Belgium made guns / and I don't really know if its going to continue or not ( especially with my generation of baby boomers getting a little older and not buying as many guns as we did over the last 15 years or so ). The younger shooters I talk to, especially in their 30's - mid 40's, just don't seem to be that excited about the Belgium made Brownings - and if they want an engraved gun or something special they are looking at Blazer, Kolar and Krieghoff as their primary upgrade / dream guns. I think there is still a market out their for some of the Pigeon grade or Diana grade Belgium made guns - but most of those are way over $ 10,000 - and I'd be a little worried about the market on a grade 1 Belgium made gun - and personally, when I compare them to a Kolar or Krieghoff K-80 (and I get ready to hit my wife up, for one more special gun on my 65th birthday ).... that K-80, gold coin super scroll, full carrier barrel, a set of full length tubes, a set of chokes and a custom made case .... at about $ 28K right now it keeps calling my name.....(although with the US dollar so far out of line in Germany right now / Kolar is looking like a sweet deal too ).

But its just my perspective.... Honestly, I think everybody should buy the gun of their dreams / and I have been very lucky and very fortunate to buy and shoot whatever I want for the most part even though I am not a serious registered shooter at all anymore / and never was that good anyway. I just appeciate fine craftmanship / and for me the Japanese Citori's have certainly met my needs. Just don't tell my wife I could really live with only one shotgun ...but if its a K-80, I might have to give it a try ....

oneounceload
June 11, 2008, 08:25 PM
Jim - no need to disagree, cause I agree with you - just stating what has always been mentioned as to why - some of that from some very knowledgeable folks, ( a lot more than me), about this - I also agree - Belgians are, IMO, WAY overpriced - new ones are 1.5 X a K-80 and 2X a Perazzi......

Having handled several, the barrels ARE nice, but that much?? I don't think so...BTW - I shot Jap Brownings for about 20 years - Citoris fields, GTI, XS, etc......

we garee more than we disagree - just playing devil's advocate a little.....I sure wouldn't turn down a Belgian, just won't pay the prices myself.....;)

BigJimP
June 12, 2008, 12:09 PM
Its always an interesting discussion - and lately I'm seeing a lot of high quality used shotguns and handguns on the market. I think people are starting to unload some of the stuff in their safe's that they aren't shooting .

johnbt
June 12, 2008, 12:35 PM
15 page Browning Superposed manual in .pdf format

http://stevespages.com/pdf/browning_superposed.pdf

roy reali
June 14, 2008, 06:25 PM
Where would you find ammo for those guns? Do you have to special order it or make it yourself?

oneounceload
June 14, 2008, 07:28 PM
Where would you find ammo for those guns? Do you have to special order it or make it yourself?

not if it your basic .410 - depending on chamber size, you may or may not be able to use 3" shells, but target loads will work in them fine, barring any mechanical damage

roy reali
June 14, 2008, 07:33 PM
410 gauge ammo comes in three inch length?

BigJimP
June 16, 2008, 03:09 PM
Remington makes an Express Long Range shell 3" 11/16 oz of shot in 4's, 6's or 7 1/2's / but their standard STS target load is a 2 1/2" shell.

roy reali
June 16, 2008, 07:39 PM
How do they squeeze all that shot into a 410 gauge shell?