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View Full Version : Where are all the select fire macho men?


Firepower!
May 29, 2008, 05:17 AM
Folks,
To be honest with you I am some what disappointed to see the lack of interest here with respect to the select fire weapons. I see lot of good threads but very few generate any response. Whats up?

Lets put out the laundry list of the select fire weapons we own to show our presence at TFL.

Are you game for this?

Double Naught Spy
May 29, 2008, 05:39 AM
1. Men aren't the only owners. Having select fire isn't macho.
2. Select fire guns are very expensive to own and operate.

P99AS9
May 29, 2008, 07:47 AM
I own a selective fire IMI Uzi. I pretty much never use it because it's way to expensive to shoot, which is why I'm considering buying a .22lr conversion kit for it. I got it in 1987 for $3000.

Musketeer
May 29, 2008, 07:49 AM
2. Select fire guns are very expensive to own and operate.

Simply put the 86 ban has placed them beyond the means of the average shooter. Local laws are also an issue.

P99AS9
May 29, 2008, 07:54 AM
Simply put the 86 ban has placed them beyond the means of the average shooter. Local laws are also an issue.

If I can remember correctly when I got my Uzi, I had to have my state senators signature. You also have to pay the government $200. I had to read over and sign like 100 papers.

Musketeer
May 29, 2008, 08:08 AM
The paperwork is a hassle but any NY resident with a pistol permit is used to that.

The $100 - $200 is a pain but doable for most.

Have you seen the prices though on available (pre 86) full auto arms out there...

Firepower!
May 29, 2008, 08:18 AM
While I admitt that the prices might be very high for some folks, it nevertheless does not mean that there arent people who collect them.

Talking expensive is relative since I pay over 5000 US$ just for Glock in Pakistan. There are other guns which are way more expensive than that. And where is the cost of ammo is concerned, well you dont even want to know!

I spend lots of moeny building my collection. And yes there is lots of paper work when it comes to select fire weapons. Even then I collect them fire them and enjoy them because they are not only my need but my passion as well!

Sarge
May 29, 2008, 08:28 AM
The fact that a lot of us have been exposed to them through LE or Military service, may take the 'cool factor' down a few notches. I like them and enjoy shooting them as long as somebody else is supplying the ammo; but I personally have no desire to shell out money or jump bureaucratic hoops, just to relive my misspent youth. I'd be far more likely to spend disposable income on a heavy hunting revolver, a pocket pistol or a nice bird gun. But that's just me.

I am thankful that those willing to spend money/jump hoops can still enjoy that freedom, if they choose. Rock on brothers- be careful & have fun.

Double Naught Spy
May 29, 2008, 12:48 PM
Talking expensive is relative since I pay over 5000 US$ just for Glock in Pakistan. There are other guns which are way more expensive than that. And where is the cost of ammo is concerned, well you dont even want to know!

Okay, so you are rich or make bad economic decisions. Big deal. Most people on the forum are not rich and can't afford those kinds of decisions.

If you are paying $5K for a Glock in Pakistan, then why not check some of the rich Pakistani gun boards for select fire people?

SR420
May 29, 2008, 01:32 PM
If I ever buy a select fire weapon it will be an AC-556 in a SCAR-CQB stock.
I think this one looks nice pictured with my Crazy Horse MK14 SEI MOD 0 :cool:

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=9731&thumb=1&d=1150148223

Crosshair
May 29, 2008, 06:30 PM
If I could afford one, I would own one. The 86 ban has really screwed the people over. The full auto gun I want most? A select fire 10/22. :o The trigger packs are going for $8000 or more now. :(

PTK
May 29, 2008, 07:04 PM
$9k from Norell.... *sigh*

MeekAndMild
May 29, 2008, 08:00 PM
oops, double tap

MeekAndMild
May 29, 2008, 08:02 PM
Macho men? You've got to be kidding. Most of the subgun owners I know are accountant/school principal/storekeeper types. Once you actually jump through the hoops to get a select fire gun you'll see just how dull as dirt that little lever really is. :p

BTW Sarge is right, its more fun if Uncle Sam is paying for your ammo. :(

hoytinak
May 29, 2008, 08:22 PM
You mean yall can actually take yours out and shoot it? I've been thinking hard bout taking mine out this weekend or filling up the gas tank in my truck. It comes outta the safe maybe once a month. :o

David Hineline
May 29, 2008, 11:43 PM
I have machineguns cause I like to blow stuff up.

As for the hunting fudds I can afford to pay a profesional to kill and prepare tasty animals for me so I have more time to dedicate to blowing stuff up.

Firepower!
May 30, 2008, 02:58 AM
Hey man, you voted No while you stated you have a select fire UZI. Whats up?

P99AS9
May 30, 2008, 08:48 AM
Hey man, you voted No while you stated you have a select fire UZI. Whats up?

Ahhhh, damn I did? Oh, must of been acident.

Rant Casey
May 30, 2008, 02:35 PM
It depends on what you consider owning, I've recently purchased a MAC 10, currently awaiting atf approval before i pick it up and then a colt sp-1 fa PRE 86 conversion with a 10.5 barrel is coming late june. If it weren't for the registry being closed I'd be up to my ears in FA weapons, but as it is now, the mac is running me 3700 and the colt is over 15k. I can buy quite a few good rifles for 15k . That's probably why you're not seeing that many people chiming in. Not a lot of people are going to burn through tens of thousands of dollars on weapons they can hardly afford to shoot. BTW, if you don't mind me asking, what's your line of profession that you can afford to spend 5000 dollars on a glock? I'm doing well financially, but I honestly cannot fathom swimming in enough money to spend 5000 dollars on ANY handgun, especially a 500 dollar glock. Whatever you do for work, need a partner?

Hkmp5sd
May 30, 2008, 03:07 PM
HK MP5SD

Colt M16A1

Cobray M11/9

Firepower!
May 30, 2008, 03:48 PM
By education I am lawyer, but profession I am living semi retired life. I use to be a heavy real estate player, still am.

Like I mentioned before guns are my passion.

Here is my partial list:
Ak 47 (15)
M4 (3)
G3 (3)
MP5 (3)
Ak 74 (6)
Aksu74 (2)
M16 (9)
A few auto pistols

Pk (4) and DShk(2) on way
Bunch others with one item per weapon.

vostracker
May 30, 2008, 04:25 PM
Played/used several during my LE days. Growing up with "Combat" and Sgt Rock comic's and carrying my Mattel "Tommygun", I always dreamed of having a real "Tommygun". Fulfilled my dreams and got a Auto Ord 1928A1 Thompson born in 1940's. Sometimes its nice to fulfill a dream even if its not practical or cost effective.

MeekAndMild
May 30, 2008, 08:38 PM
Here is my partial list:Aha! I knew it, a true hobbyist! You sound more like a collector than a stereotyped 'macho man'. C'mon, admit it though if you're able to invest in this sort of hardware you must be more interested in the mystique of collecting than in being some sort of Rambo.

Let me ask you one question, aren't they better to look at than to shoot?

Firepower!
May 31, 2008, 12:12 AM
MeekandMild... They are so much fun to shoot!

Yes i am a collector not rambo. They are good to look at but looking at them entices me to empty out a few mags almost everyday.

I mean you have got to agree that select fire is so much more fun to shoot.

cue7467
May 31, 2008, 07:53 AM
firepower!----

I need a new father care to adopt?????:)

Hkmp5sd
May 31, 2008, 07:25 PM
Firepower!.......are all of those fully transferrable or dealer samples? If fully transferrable, you easily have over $1,000,000 in machineguns. I really need to win the lottery. :)

VUPDblue
May 31, 2008, 07:38 PM
then a colt sp-1 fa PRE 86 conversion with a 10.5 barrel is coming late june. ... the colt is over 15k.

If you paid over fifteen thousand dollars for an SP1 conversion, you got taken to the cleaners....

Firepower!
May 31, 2008, 09:37 PM
Fully transferable granted the other person is legal to own as well. This is just a partial list my friend.


Too bad TFL does not have a movie platform to post clips.

Rant Casey
June 1, 2008, 12:31 AM
I didn't buy the colt yet, the purchase was going to be in mid june. What should I be paying? Comes with an eotech 552 and a Surefire FA556AR suppressor. I could probably get the price down if I haggle a bit, but it's not really in my nature. Looks a lot different than most of the other's i've seen, seems to have a lot of mods done on it.

VUPDblue
June 1, 2008, 07:21 AM
What kind of mods are you talking about? Mods to the lower? The only things you should be doing to a transferable lower are maybe changing out the stock, adding KNS pins and the grip of your choice. If it has been 'heavily modded' beyond that, I would be cautious. There is an SP1 conversion that just sold on Subguns for $12k and there is one still for sale on Sturm for $10.5k. That is about the going price range. Add $900 for the can and $400 for the EOTech and that still puts you at $12k total if you bought the second SP1 I mentioned. Then you still have to stamps to buy. Just be careful when looking for a RR M16. Just because it says "Colt" doesn't mean it has to cost fifteen grand. Now if it was a M16 marked A1 or A2, that would be a different story.

speedracer211
June 1, 2008, 07:47 AM
First my wife would kill me if I bought a gun that cost almost as much as her car. Second my wife would kill me if I bought a gun that cost almost as much as her car. Third I am a public school teacher and dont make the bank roll to cover those purchases. Now in 15 years when I finally hit 6 figures then we may be talking. Then again those 15k m4's could be 30k m4's in 15 years. I shot a handfull of fa weapons and they are fun to shoot, especially when I did not have to fork out the money for the gun and jump through burning rings of fire to have the chance to shoot it.

VUPDblue
June 1, 2008, 09:01 AM
Priorities man, priorities. Some people who think that a $10k gun is out of reach deem it necessary to drive a brand new F-150 every couple years. Hell, if you bought a brand new one, it depreciates the value of an M16 as soon as you drive it off the lot! I drive a 10+ year old vehicle that has long since been paid-off and I don't tinker with ATV's or watercraft or any other 'mainstream' big-boy toys. My friends that have all the 4-wheelers and dirtbikes and watercraft and the like think I'm crazy for buying expensive firearms. They probably spend more $$ on their hobby(s) than I do. It's all in what's important to you. If you want it to happen, make it happen.

Rant Casey
June 2, 2008, 12:02 AM
Only change to the lower are a magpull stock and new grips. Upper, although not a big deal, nice rail, front grip, surefire light, flat top. Like I said, I haven't purchased it yet, it's something I've been talking about with the owner. I could probably get him down in price though, remember, I have very little experience purchasing FA weapons so the difference between 12k and 15k doesn't pop up as a red flag for me.

What kind of mods are you talking about? Mods to the lower? The only things you should be doing to a transferable lower are maybe changing out the stock, adding KNS pins and the grip of your choice. If it has been 'heavily modded' beyond that, I would be cautious. There is an SP1 conversion that just sold on Subguns for $12k and there is one still for sale on Sturm for $10.5k. That is about the going price range. Add $900 for the can and $400 for the EOTech and that still puts you at $12k total if you bought the second SP1 I mentioned. Then you still have to stamps to buy. Just be careful when looking for a RR M16. Just because it says "Colt" doesn't mean it has to cost fifteen grand. Now if it was a M16 marked A1 or A2, that would be a different story.

mellow_c
June 2, 2008, 01:18 AM
My only view on this topic is that if you can, you might as well. Not only that, but by doing so, your helping add to the numbers of people that do. And we need people to hold the line where it is. At least.

I'm sure I'll never own a select fire of any type. Unless my dreams of becoming a rock star come true, and I have alot of money to blow. But in the mean time, I can hardly justify the $1600 after tax for a nice M1A. But I'm really glad to see that other people are getting the lead out!

I hope to go to one of those "50 cal/machine gun" shoots one day and atleast watch. Maybe some time in my life I'll be able to fire a fully automatic.

One things for sure. it will be a long long time from now before the government can get ahold of our semiautomatics. Although I'm sure they'll just keep taking little bites!:P

Firepower!
June 2, 2008, 01:30 AM
Mellow...unfortunately you are right. Governments no matter where they are always keep trying to take guns away from people or keep making it hard for people to own them or buy them. I dont understand how those anti gun folks get their influence in there.

Anyway, I hope you get to own a select fire sooner than you have contemplated! And enjoy firing it!

David Hineline
June 3, 2008, 12:36 AM
Washington DC handgun ban was overturned, San Fransisco Handgun Ban overturned, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas all have passed CCW in the past few years,

KS just repealed thier ban on NFA weapons, MO just repealed it's ban on Silencers.

More and more states are going CCW all the time, the 94 AW ban is gone, none of the evil legislation attempted in Illinois this year even came close.

So I don't know where the idea that the government is trying to take away the guns.

freakshow10mm
June 3, 2008, 12:42 PM
Not yet, but as soon as I get my 07/02 I will have a bunch of them.

Firepower!
June 4, 2008, 02:13 AM
Freakshow10mm....are you from UP? If so, did you know late Steve Dresch?

I lived in UP for 2 years.

Whats 02/07?

freakshow10mm
June 4, 2008, 09:23 AM
Originally I'm from Oshkosh, WI; most recently from Green Bay. Been living up here for 3 years now.

That name doesn't ring a bell. First time I've heard of it.

The 07/02 is a type 07 FFL for a firearm manufacturer and the 02 is the SOT (special occupational tax) to make NFA weapons. Currently I'm a type 06 FFL, ammunition manufacturer, but am expanding my business to include firearm manufacturing.

With the status of an 07/02, I can make Title I (handguns, longguns) and Title II (machine guns, AOWs, suppressors [no short barrel weapons in MI]) and deal in both types of weapons. It is the most freedom one can have in the firearms industry. I can make and deal in all types of firearms except Destructive Devices/armor piercing ammo.

I just got word that my 07 FFL application got to the ATF field office in Grand Rapids. They are mailing out an info packet today and next week will be my compliance interview (standard procedure) then in a week to week and a half I'll have my FFL in hand and can begin manufacturing and dealing in firearms. This is also a prerequisite to paying the SOT for a NFA firearm manufacturer, which the tax year starts July 1st, so as of July 1st I can manufacture and deal in NFA.

My transfer fee for Title I firearms is $20 and my transfer fee to MI residents for NFA weapons (machine guns, AOWs) is only $25. The main thing I will be making for civilians is affordable shotgun type AOWs (short barrel, pistol grip) in both 12ga and 20ga. Depending on how much my dealer price is, I hope to keep the retail price of an AOW under $275 including the $5 transfer tax.

Firepower!
June 5, 2008, 10:33 PM
Thats cool.

Would you have capacity to manufacture fa fire arms?

How hard is it in the US to become a fullay auto dealer? Manufacturer?

How much is an Mp5 there in UP? i lived in various place there, Hancock to Marquette.

A little further north of your town there is a good place to eat called 'the haus'. Especially on Saturdays, when they habe their signatue prime rib buffet!

gordo_gun_guy
June 5, 2008, 11:06 PM
FA isn't in the cards any time soon. Maybe if they're still available when the kids move out....

A GUU-5 would be a fun toy if legal on the civilian side....

hkg3
June 11, 2008, 10:13 PM
Too bad TFL does not have a movie platform to post clips.

youtube does. :D

freakshow10mm
June 13, 2008, 09:44 AM
The Haus has been closed for at least 6 years.

Yes, I will be manufacturing machine guns (and suppressors and AOWs). The MP5 is whatever the going rate for the current market. Over $10K for an MP5 the last time I looked. The machine guns I manufacture will only be legal to transfer to LE agencies or the military, but I can make as many demo guns as I want and keep some on hand for sales, etc. One of my first projects will be a 10mm M16 commando. I will also be making a "double tap" burst kit for M16 rifles. If one has a transferable machine gun that's a registered receiver, it would be legal to put this kit in your machine gun. The selector would go SAFE-SEMI-TWO SHOT BURST.

The steps are about the same for a dealer and manufacturer, but there are small differences. The dealer FFL is $200 with a $90 renewal and the manufacturer FFL is $150 with no reduced renewal rate.

The dealer, type 01 FFL, has to pay a Class III SOT (special occupational tax) yearly of $500 to become and maintain the status as a dealer in NFA weapons.

The manufacturer, type 07 FFL, has to pay a Class II SOT yearly of $1000 (reduced rate of $500 for small manufacturers that sell under $500,000 previous year) to maintain the status of a NFA firearm manufacturer. With a type 07 FFL/ SOT2, you can make everything except for destructive devices (I think that's a type 10 FFL that runs like $3K for 3 years). Also a manufacturer (both firearm and ammunition manufacturer) has to register with the US State Department under the ITAR rules and pay a yearly fee of $1,750. It is mandatory even if you don't import or export or sell to military. If you make it, you need to be registered.

Currently I'm a type 06 FFL, ammunition manufacturer. Under the NFA tax rules, all FFL sales are to be added up to determine what tax is due for the Class II tax. Because I have an FFL already, and my sales for the last fiscal year (ending June 30) is less than $500,000 I qualify to pay the reduced SOT tax of only $500 to get my NFA manufacturer status. Pretty sweet, eh?

Zoning is another hangup. Currently in the village, there is no zoning restrictions on the firearms industry so I just have the FFL, SOT, and ITAR fees to pay. I operate out of my home. Basically if I get the proper FFL and SOT tax paid, I can make rocket launchers, artillery, and flame throwers in the back yard if I want to.

The best combination of FFL and SOT to get is the type 07 FFL with the class II SOT. With this combination I can do all of the following:


Make any Title I firearm (handguns, long guns)
Deal in any Title I firearm
Perform any gunsmithing activities
Manufacture ammunition or components
Manufacture NFA weapons, except DDs
Deal in NFA weapons, except DDs
Import machine guns for R&D purposes


The fee schedule is $150/3yrs for the FFL, $500/yr for the SOT (reduced rate), and $1,750 per year for the ITAR registration. So licensing costs are $2,300 per year.

Firepower!
June 21, 2008, 03:17 PM
Too bad the Haus is closed. I was looking forward to visiting it some day.

I am in process of acquiring a M4. Its US Army gun which is sold to PK as part of war on terror, and the gun has been retired since it failed to perform in mud, but I am not too worried about that.

Stagger Lee
June 30, 2008, 07:28 PM
Just got two, a Vector Uzi and a Browning 1919A4.

The Uzi I can shoot any time, since I have a source for 9mm ammo. The Browning...not so much. But I still bring it out every few months. :D

Firepower!
July 1, 2008, 01:02 AM
What size UZI is it?

I am trying to get this micro UZI but the price aint right and the seller has only one magazine.

Stagger Lee
July 1, 2008, 11:04 AM
Regular full-size. Nothing special about it...except that it's mine. :cool:

44 AMP
July 9, 2008, 06:09 PM
I don't own any select fire weapons, they are not allowed where I live. And even if they were, the cost is just too much to own and operate. I can own and feed half a dozen (or maybe even a dozen) other good guns for the cost of a single NFA piece.

I played with them extensively in my brief military career, and was a trained Small Arms repairman, which means I am very familiar with the function and repair of full auto firearms. Also machine gun history and theory are a long term hobby of mine. However, I do not feel the need to actually own one, due to both the legal hassles and the cost.

other than the fun aspect of burst fire, there is nothing I do (or want to do) that a semi doesn't suit me as well, or better.

I do enjoy machine guns, watching and hearing them shoot, and I know quite a bit about them, but until that big Lottery win comes through, I cannot afford them, or the ammo needed to have fun with them on a regualr basis. So I just content my self to collecting things that look like machineguns when possible (semi auto Thompson, for example) and my memories.

444
August 1, 2008, 12:34 PM
Man.
Some of the responses to this thread are ...... interesting.


Yes. I own a select fire weapon.
One.
A Sterling tube gun.
And, I didn't fill out 100 pages of paperwork to buy it, or get a state senator's signature to buy it.
For those of you who have never been through the process, the ATF requires two forms to be filled out. The Form 4 consists of one single page, front and back. The other form is the Certificate of Compliance which is a single sided form on which you certify your citizenship.
Both forms can be found here: http://www.titleii.com/Forms.htm where you can fill out most of the information online and print out the form, ready for signatures.
The cost of this weapon was less than buying an ATV, a boat, a travel trailer, a motorcycle, .......................