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whiteknight81
May 18, 2008, 10:27 PM
Last week my cousin shot a doe out of season with a .22. He explained it as an awesome shot quartered away on the right side. He said he tracked it but it got to dark on him so he waited until the next morning to find it. What vitals could he have possibly hit using such a small caliber on a whitetail.

whiteknight81
May 19, 2008, 12:59 AM
.223. But definitely still out of season.

kametc
May 19, 2008, 01:10 AM
Are you sure you want to be telling this stuff to internet people?

.223 is a very respectable deer rifle with heavier bullets. (or Barnes solid copper ones) Some states , like Nebraska or so won't let you use anything smaller thana .243.

Nnobby45
May 19, 2008, 01:58 AM
I realize that there isn't a POACHING forum for you to post in, but your cousin doesn't appear to be the only one afflicted with the condition you mentioned after you casually ask a terminal ballistics question arising from the commision of a criminal act. And do it on a forum dedicated to legal hunting as well as the protection of the rights of LAW ABIDING gun owners.

hoytinak
May 19, 2008, 02:14 AM
I realize that there isn't a POACHING forum for you to post in, but your cousing doesn't appear to be the only one afflicted with the condition you mentioned after you bring up the subject of criminal activity on a forum dedicated to legal hunting as well as the protection of the rights of LAW ABIDING gun owners.

That's ALOT nicer than my reply was going to to be.

whiteknight81,

as Capt Charlie's sig line reads: TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

Yithian
May 19, 2008, 02:36 AM
No one ever said, "You have to be intelligent to be Human." :mad:

+1 Nnobby45. you are a far better Ambassador than I am.

SilentHitz
May 19, 2008, 06:41 AM
ast week my cousin shot a doe out of season Tell him we all said "thanx" :rolleyes: for removing a breeding doe, and any offspring she would have produced from the herd.:mad: What a " Penile Cranium"!:barf:

whiteknight81
May 19, 2008, 08:30 AM
I told him I'd never hunt with him. If he wasn't a relative and so young and stupid I'd report him. And if there was a poaching forum I wouldn't be involved with it.

Kreyzhorse
May 19, 2008, 08:49 AM
No excuse for poaching. Not only did he shoot one out of season, he couldn't recover it. What a scum bag.

Wyldman
May 19, 2008, 08:59 AM
Cousins a dumbass!
Last week my cousin shot a doe out of season with a .22. He explained it as an awesome shot quartered away on the right side. He said he tracked it but it got to dark on him so he waited until the next morning to find it. What vitals could he have possibly hit using such a small caliber on a whitetail.

I cannot help but notice that EVERYONE who has responded to you has completely failed to answer your question, choosing to bash you and your cousin instead. So, I would like to take this opportunity to answer the QUESTION you asked. Although a .22 is an extremely inadequate caliber for deer it is still a deadly firearm in the hands of the right person. As long as the slug doesn't hit bone and you are fairly close to the animal, it can be just as lethal as a .30-06 hitting any of the vital organs. What's-his-name (Alexander Supertramp was his alias) who starved to death in Alaska (they made a movie about him ... "Into The Wild") shot an adult moose with a .22 and scored a kill! I doubt that a .22 will score a kill like that on big game often at all but it IS a firearm and ALL firearms are lethal.

I will add though that I do not condone what your cousin did unless he were in a life-death situation where he either ate or died. It doesn't sound like he was in that type of situation though so what he did was wrong. On the positive side ... he DID wait until morning to track the deer rather than just blow it off and go look for another so, I give him credit for that.

BTW, you might be expecting a call or a visit from Fish And Game now since you told everyone here that your cousin poached a deer, someone here may have reported this to them already. I wouldn't share info like that online anymore if I were you.

;)

pax
May 19, 2008, 09:03 AM
Back about a million years ago, my brother took a doe out of season.

In a county park.

In California.

Using birdshot.

*sigh*

My dad just about killed him.

He grew up.

Eventually.

pax

UniversalFrost
May 19, 2008, 10:31 AM
If he wasn't a relative and so young and stupid I'd report him

Well, at this point you are admittedly breaking the law by not reporting him (depending on your states laws).

In many states it is a crime to not report a witnessed or admitted violation. Maybe some of our LEO members could help out with specific regs of each state.


Anyway, .223 on deer is not a good practice unless you are shooting the smaller deer down south (like here in AZ). Also, I would recommend a 77gr HP as the best (in my opinion) for the smaller coues deer. I have seen folks take down several deer donw here in AZ with a .223 or .22-250 using the heavier bullets, but personally, I would not shoot anything smaller than a .243 on a deer. Larger calibers have more room for error and will still ensure a clean and humane kill.

JOE

whiteknight81
May 19, 2008, 12:13 PM
I was hoping someone would tell me the doe may have lived without any infection and set my mind free that maybe my 14 yr old cousin is a blow hard anyway.

1. I'm not a poacher.
2. I don't use a .22 for anything other then squirrel and target shooting.
3. I don't own a .223.
4. The poaching laws in this state are so leaniant that not reporting a violation isn't close to being against the law so I can save a family headache at Thanksgiving and Christmas.
5. I gave him a tongue lashing his father should have.

HKuser
May 19, 2008, 01:34 PM
Around here, a lot of the poachers use .22 mag.

Art Eatman
May 19, 2008, 07:35 PM
From the description of the hit, and the use of a .223, I imagine the bullet made a serious mess in the central part of the deer. Stomach, intestines...Dead deer. But slowly dead. Maybe an hour or two from internal bleeding, but quite possibly a number of hours later from peritonitis.

In the absence of medical care, people who die from stomach wounds or peritonitis have been known to scream a lot in dire agony.

Art

roy reali
May 19, 2008, 08:22 PM
I would turn in my own mother for poaching. I have no mercy and absolutely no compassion for poachers and anyone that tolerates them.

alfred
May 19, 2008, 09:08 PM
I once searched for,found with a dog and butchered a Deer with a .22 rim fire short in it's heart.It was a large Doe.The bullet had gone between two ribs and barely punctured the heart enough for the deer to lay down and bleed out about 400 yards from where it was shot.It was shot at about 6 feet on a lucky shot on a very windy day when the deer walked out with it's head hidden behind a tree where it could not see a 14 year old boy.Pure dumb luck,stupidity and perfection in a chance shot for a kid who had never been hunting before in his life.That has been 40 years ago.The boy made a preacher as he could not find anything else that he could do but talk.Last I heard he still brags about that shot.

I also squeezed a Deer heart about 20 years later to slice and wash it and a #1 buck fell out on the table.No hole in the heart and only one hole between the ribs.It must have entered the blood vessel going to the heart.As it had already been cut out and gut pile discarded,no one will ever know.

Freaky weird things do happen that kill man and beast.alfred

mikenbarb
May 19, 2008, 09:53 PM
14 yrs old???? What are his parents teaching him if he is doing this at 14 years old. If my cousin did that he would be in a lots of trouble just to teach him a lesson. Does this CHILD even posess a hunting license?? I think the firearms he uses should be given back to their owners before their confiscated and the owners are in trouble also for letting a minor use them without an adult supervising. And using them for a crime of jacking deer. I think this kid should have to lose his hunting license(if he has one) an take his hunter safety course over 10 times and then get his butt beat a little by his parents. And NO, Im sure the deer didnt live. I guess his parents are too busy eating bon bons and watching Jerry Springer than to spend time teaching their son safe and ethical gun use.
Hmmm, A 14 year old with a .223 shooting a doe in May when they have their fawns nursing. Heck with hid dad! Send him to my house for a day to straighten him out.:mad:

.300H&H
May 19, 2008, 10:13 PM
Sounds like a case of Uncle Jed needing to have a long talk with that boy.:rolleyes:


Years ago I answered an ad in the paper to buy a puppy... I went out in the country...and after I rang the doorbell of the farmhouse...as I was waiting for someone to come to the door...a barefoot boy<about the age of 10-12> ran out from the side of the house and yelled something about dogs bothering the chickens...and he raised his little double barrel shotgun<a .20ga.> and let loose 2 shots in the air...and reloaded...and ran off to 'scare off the dogs.':rolleyes:


A very elderly gentleman answered the door...and shouted past me...in a vain attempt to reign in the energies of his grandson. There's just something about a 10 yr. old boy running at break neck speed shooting a shotgun in the air...that just makes me a bit nervous. Somehow I feel this might all relate somehow to the aforementioned .223/wounded doe problem.

Hk_Allday
May 20, 2008, 07:54 AM
So, everyone is entitled to their opinion, so here's mine:

Shocking news alert! EVERYTHING you read on the internet MIGHT not be true!!!

Flame me all you want, because I just don't care, but when someone posts a question to which you are going to respond, you should at least attempt to answer their question.

ALMOST every post in this thread is an unsolicited OPINION about the circumstances leading up to the poster's question - WHICH you don't even KNOW is true! The poster could live in the middle of Manhattan and not even have a cousin! But hey, don't let me stop you from a free-for-all opinion-fest! If you want to flame the poster, feel free, I mean who's to stop you? But you should at least make an attempt to respond to the original request for help whilst doing so.

Just my $.02.

And yes, Whiteknight81 (if you are still even coming here), a .223 could and most likely did kill the deer. What vitals would have been hit are hard to say without more information.

mikenbarb
May 20, 2008, 05:51 PM
HK, I replied bluntly to the question asked and if someone has the brass ones to bring on the possibility of law enforcment showing up at his door looking for his cousin and it not be the truth than the person thats wasting resources from a goverment or local agency should be arrested. I think that is against the law also to make up crimes that didnt happen to get some spotlight time. Law enforcement officers have better things to do than chase people who make things up and lie(Like protect us). As far as it being the truth or not, I think Whitenight was telling the truth because not too many people that have a brain would even make up such things like that. I just think he wasnt expecting the replys he got. And NOONE should ever say things on the net like that(truth or not) because sportsman are having hard enough of times doing it legal and by the book. Whitenight, Just think about the fallout of things next time you post a criminal act that reflects on law abiding sportsman that do it by the book. Im not saying your a bad person but im not happy hearing you tell everyone that you knew this and basically did nothing besides telling him he couldnt hunt with you. It dont sound like he needs you to take him hunting because he is already killing deer all by himself whenever he wants. And one last thing, Dont post things like that if you dont expect to get grilled. Its hard to overlook the events that happened prior to the question asked when its something like that.
And thats MY $.02

Art Eatman
May 20, 2008, 09:09 PM
Er, uh, take a double dose of calm-down?

Art

sureshots
May 21, 2008, 06:46 AM
You ask what vitals could he have hit using such A small Cal.? The same as with any other Cal. would be my answer. Your question has to do with shot placement not Cal.. A 223 cal. bullet has plenty of steam to penetrate one-half of the way through the animal which is all it would take to reach A vital. So you would have to know exactly where the bullet hit,at what angle and the amount it did penetrate to determine what vital it could hit. Now before anyone starts yelling, I,m not talking about A four hundred yard shot with A 40gr. varmit cart. I know you probably wouldn,t get the needed penetration with A shot like this. Now to the illegal taking of this animal. To the person, You owe it to yourself and your fellow hunters ,the effort to obey all of the laws concerning the priviledge of hunting. Would you cheat at cards? Would you steal? No, probably not. So why kill an animal out of season?