Improve DA pull on Beretta 92FS

[captkilowatt]

I need to know what can be done to lighten the DA trigger pull on a 92FS Beretta pistol.

[brentfoto]

I guess it could be accomplished with lighter springs or a trigger/action job.

In the meantime, a good way to SMOOTH the DA trigger pull, try this:

http://www.gunblast.com/Poorboy.htm

This will not cost you one cent.

I've done this with all my revolvers and autos that have hammers. I just did the first step of the process, and noticed a marked improvement in smoothness. Try it five or six times, and don't overdo it with too much pressure.

[James K]

"Marrying" the sear and hammer is nothing more than accelerated wear, just like stoning or polishing.

If you have enough patience, you can do it with both the DA and SA on the 92. I don't recommend lightening the mainspring, as the hammer is fairly light, but you can do that too if you are sure the gun will never be used in any adverse condtions, like dirt, cold, sand.

Jim

[Tom2]

What is the difference between his procedure and just firing the gun alot? Like dry fire or actual shooting a couple hundred cycles, that should remove any microscopic "burrs" right?

[brentfoto]

You don't have to shoot a couple hundred or thousands of rounds or dry-fire in order to make the pull smoother - that is the benefit. I believe your question is a bit rhetorical. :D

[10-96]

Jim had good advice. But, if it's not for personal safety- you might try to go 1lb lighter at a time but not lighter than2lbs. The hammer is just too light to trust to a lighter mainspring if your life might depend on it. I tried this with the 96D. (smaller hammer= DAO)

[DonR101395]

I've had good luck by simply replacing the mainspring with a 92D mainspring.

[nbkky71]

+1 to DonR101395.

Simply replace the standard mainspring with one from a DAO pistol (aka - D spring) and you're good to go

[UniversalFrost]

yes, the "D" spring is a beretta 92 guys inside secret to a "trigger job" also, wolff has spring kits to help out and there are several folks that dedicate their lives (literally) to improving the beretta 92.

Me I went with a wolff spring kit and a d-spring on my 92FS.

[brentfoto]

What is the reasoning or logic for switching to such a spring? I don't doubt that it's good advice (because a few have mentioned it) but would like to understand why there's an improvement.

Also, I don't see a reference to such a spring on the Wolff site. What would be your recommendation on that site? I don't see a reference to a "D" spring there-perhaps such a reference is on the Beretta site only.

Also, I have a late model Taurus PT92 in stainless. Totally love the gun, but do not rely on it for defense at all. However, I am considering it for possible competition in the future.

[GoSlash27]

Take a 92D mainspring and remove 2 turns. Don't believe the hype about light strikes; it doesn't happen with even the hardest primers.

/Been runnin' my 96FS that way for years.

*Edit* Some hard numbers from previous experimentation:

Stock FS spring
Preload: 8.7 lbs
Compression to fire: 11.7 lbs

Stock D spring
Preload: 5.8 lbs
To fire: 9.1 lbs

Modified FS spring (3 turns removed)
Preload: 5.4 lbs
To fire: 8.8 lbs

Modified D spring (2 turns removed)
Preload: 3.0 lbs
To fire: 6.5 lbs

What is the reasoning or logic for switching to such a spring?
The idea is that a DA trigger pull must cock the hammer and a lighter mainspring is easier to compress, hence lightening the pull. Which this mod does beautifully.

I believe (and will go verify one way or the other) that the Wolf #16 is usually referred to as a replacement for the 92D, but really is not.

If going with Wolf, disregard my advice to take 2 turns off. Do that only with a genuine Beretta 92FS spring.

Yep. #16 Wolf runs about like a factory 92D.

[k Squared]

I don't think Tom2's question was answered. Is there anything to be gained by marring the trigger if the gun has already been fired a couple hundred or a couple thousand times?

[brentfoto]

I thought that I answered his question.

My answer would be "yes", even if gun has been fired a couple hundred times, as mine had been.

I noticed a greater smoothness and ease of pull after 'poor boy' was done. And you can do it within a couple of minutes. Try it! There's nothing to remove if you only do the first step, as I had done.

This thread has actually developed into subparts, and I'm responsible. Why? Because I believe that SMOOTHNESS of pull is where it's at...if you can get smooth pull it is better and actually feels lighter as a byproduct. So you can smooth it even more by 'poor boy trigger job', without doing a trigger job or replacing the hammer spring.

However, I'm considering getting a D spring anyway. Problem for me, BEWARE, is that necessary removal of stock grips to change hammer spring on the Taurus PT92 can result in other problems as outlined in another’s thread(s) months ago with the bushing/screw problem (Note: Grip must be removed on Beretta, not sure on the Taurus-guns are very similar, but not identical).

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=312704

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=3108.msg23784#msg23784

[k Squared]

brentfoto,

Thanks for the extra detail. I'll give the poorboy method a try as soon as I get my Beretta back from my brother inlaw.:(

[captkilowatt]

I just got a #18 main spring from Wilson Combat. I intend to cut off a turn or two to get a lighter pre-load, but something else come to mind. What effect does using lighter main springs do to the overall spring resistance holding the slide in battery? Would I not want to increase the recoil spring weight abit to offset the lighter mainspring?

[GoSlash27]

Re: "poorboy":

The sear and hammer can be stoned (not recommended for newbs) on the 92, but lightening the trigger pull cannot be accomplished by the 'poorboy' method. Even if it could, the trigger return spring isn't a big source in the 92.

Just swap in a lightened D spring for starters. It'll be a night and day difference on the DA pull. If it feels rougher than you like you can always try your hand at a trigger job. I'm trying to scare up the drawings we used to have on the Beretta forum, but they might be lost to the sands of time now.

captkilowatt,
Not necessary. It'll function fine with the stock recoil spring so long as you're running standard loads.

[brentfoto]

GoSlash27--I recommended 'poor boy' trigger job first step only, and not to mess with any springs, for the purpose of SMOOTHING the pull only.

Try it-you'll like it.

Looks like I'll have to stick with status quo. Changing the mainspring to a "D"- type spring in the newer Taurus PT92 (with internal lock) appears to be a PITA, or will require services of a gunsmith.

In any event, GoSlash27, would you recommend cutting the coils off of the Wolff 16# spring also? Or just on the Beretta "92D" mainspring?

[GoSlash27]

Try it-you'll like it.
Not sure if that was for me or not... I already did a complete action job on mine. I may have to post a how-to on it since it looks like the old one is gone.
would you recommend cutting the coils off of the Wolff 16# spring also? Or just on the Beretta "92D" mainspring?
I know some guys who have reported good results with 1 1/2 turns off a Wolff 16# spring but can't vouch for it personally. My recommendations are just for factory Beretta parts (verified good results personally); 3 turns from the stock spring or 2 turns from a "D" spring. I don't recommend going beyond that.

Swapping mainsprings on a 92 is a snap. Simply remove the grips (careful not to dislodge the trigger bar follower spring), apply some pressure to the wriststrap loop, and press the cross-pin out. Spring slides right out the bottom. Installation is reverse.

IIRC Taurus has a problem with their grip screws, but this doesn't affect Berettas.

[brentfoto]

Thanks for your input.

Swapping mainsprings on the NEWER Taurii PT92's is NOT a snap, according to this thread:

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=5274.0

This illustrates one instance where I regret not having the Beretta.

In any event, I may get the Beretta factory "D" spring and have it installed by my gunsmith. Or I may just leave well enough alone. Spent hours on the gun for other 'fix' jobs (switch mag catch over to right side, repair grip screw bushing problem). I'm pretty happy with it now but may have a professional install the D spring, with or without clipping a couple of coils.

[GoSlash27]

brentfoto,
Yeah, that sounds like a nightmare. :o

If you're going to go to the trouble of having a gunsmith install the D spring, you may as well go ahead and clip it now. Taking 2 turns off the D spring is just as dramatic a reduction over the D as the D is over stock. Once you have the D spring, you're gonna want the clipped D spring. No sense in payin' him to do it twice.

If you want to see how dramatic the difference is, try handling a used 92D sometime. That'll demonstrate the difference better than raw numbers.

*edit* one of the Beretta guys hunted down our old Trigger job how-to (http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=25949&highlight=trigger).

[brentfoto]

Thanks for that trigger job link.

I thought the general rule of thumb is to not clip coils, but I guess there are exceptions.

I've had a hard time clipping coils myself. Perhaps I don't have the correct tool. Suggestions?

If I'm going to have him replace the mainspring I might as well, according to your suggestion, have him clip the coils as well as part of the process.

So, your advise is to go with the Beretta D and not the Wolff, and this is because you have personal experience with the Beretta D and not the Wolff 16# hammer spring?

Prompt reply appreciated!

[GoSlash27]

I've had a hard time clipping coils myself. Perhaps I don't have the correct tool. Suggestions?
I usually use a jeweller's file for that.

So, your advise is to go with the Beretta D and not the Wolff, and this is because you have personal experience with the Beretta D and not the Wolff 16# hammer spring?
Exactly. When working up these mods, you need to know the free height as well as spring rate. It's also better if someone has gone and boogered one up to find the limit. I've done both with the D spring, but not the Wolff. :o

[brentfoto]

Thank you very kindly.

If I decide to go ahead with this, I have the double-whammy - grip screw/bushing problem with the grip, and the actual replacement of the mainspring.

If I do go forward, this will be left to my gunsmith.

Where can I get the actual Beretta spring?

I have this guy's url:

http://www.olhasso.com/beretta/index.htm

Do you know of others?

Thanks,

[eerw]

Marrying the trigger is also called boosting..
you are essentially removing any type of burrs on the sear and the hammer hooks. as long as the hammer hooks are excessively deep..it does a good job in single action..

this will do nothing for the double action pull..as the hammer will not ride on the sear for its release..

to lighten or smooth out the DA pull..the lighter D spring is the easiest way to go.
more can be done..but entail polishing of the internals, trigger, trigger bar, hammer etc. also you can try modifying hammer springs..lengths and widths..

but some knowledge of the internal workings of your gun is a must.

not unheard of to get a completely reliable DA pull 6# or under 4.5 with specific primers.

[GoSlash27]

brent,
No biggie. The D spring needs to be ordered directly from Beretta.Your gunsmith should be able to get it for you.
Or you could order it from BerettaUSA. Part # UD99001.

[UniversalFrost]

The link brent posted is an excellent site and you should book mark it. I have done lots of business with the guy on the site and he is top notch.

Also, the Wolff spring is ok and will get you by (I keep one in my spare parts kit), but go with a 'd' spring.

JOE

[brentfoto]

Thanks, Frostman!

[GoSlash27]

Just a reminder:
The 'poorboy' trigger job may be something worth doing in and of itself, but the first point won't address the DA pull of a Beretta and the second part is impossible to employ on a Beretta. And even if it were it wouldn't be worth doing.

The DA trigger on the Beretta is like trying to squeeze a bag full of gravel. :o The biggest offenders are
#1 the mainspring
#2 friction throughout the innards (trigger bar, sear axis, hammer trunnion, hammer strut)
#3 the sear spring
#4 the pin block return spring

A decent 92/96 trigger job will address the SA pull in the course of remedying the DA pull.

[brentfoto]

from GoSlash27- brent, No biggie. The D spring needs to be ordered directly from Beretta.Your gunsmith should be able to get it for you.
Or you could order it from BerettaUSA. Part # UD99001.



From Olhasso website:

"HS-001- 92/96 "D" hammer spring -- This is Beretta Part number C99001 and is a true D spring. The part that BUSA is currently selling as a D spring is indeed part number C90047 which is in fact a standard F model spring".

Any comments?

[GoSlash27]

brent,
If BUSA is stocking incorrect springs, this is the first I'm hearing of it.
You can verify a D spring by length.
Free height of a D spring is 2.4", whereas an F spring is 2.67".
HTHs!

[brentfoto]

This is just another PITA, which makes three PITA's.

One is grip screw/bushing problem with the newer Taurii PT92, second is replacing the hammer spring on that gun (with its internal lock and other idiosyncracies), and now this... :barf: :D

[GoSlash27]

brent,
Doesn't really matter where you get your D spring so long as it's a D spring. Go ahead and get one from Olhasso, just measure it before you clip it.