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Conceal Carry
May 9, 2008, 09:55 AM
About five years back at my current job an office colleague (not a friend) brought his revolver in the office and while showing it off to other colleagues jokingly poined it at me (it was loaded but not cocked).

I never take guns pointed at me as a joke and never do such stupid things myself. As I was relatively new in that job and didn't want to make a scene out of that, I simply dismissed it and walked away from there, and never launced a formal complaint.( Now I think I should have done that).

I wonder if I did the right thing by walking away. What message did I convey? Did I appear weak? Should I have told him firmly that it was not a joke and he should put it away?

Any opinions..

David the Gnome
May 9, 2008, 10:09 AM
I would have yelled at him and made a complaint, but it's too late now.

seeker073180
May 9, 2008, 10:17 AM
yeah...5 years is kinda outside the statute of limitations. (unless you're female - they remember EVERYTHING)

copy this to a nice document/font and leave a couple laying around the office. i'd bold the 1st three rules.


The 12 Golden rules for Safe Gun Handling

1. Always treat the gun as loaded.
2. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
3. Always keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
4. Always keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.
5. Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy.
6. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
7. Learn the mechanical and handling characteristics of the gun you are using.
8. Always use proper Ammunition.
9. Be sure the barrel is clear of obstructions before loading and shooting.
10. If your gun fails to fire when the trigger is pulled, hold your shooting position for several seconds; then with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, carefully unload the gun.
11. Don't rely on the gun's safety to keep it from firing.
12. Be aware of your surroundings when handling guns so you don't trip or lose your balance and accidentally point and/or fire the gun at anyone or anything.

fishmagnet
May 9, 2008, 10:24 AM
"five years ago..." Let it go..........................

Van55
May 9, 2008, 11:19 AM
I don't think the question is what he should do about it now, 5 years later.

The question is, if it happened today, how should he react.

I'd have told the guy IMMEDIATELY that what he did was unsafe and totally inappropriate in the workplace or anywhere else.

Here's an interesting anecdote that is marginally relevant. I went to my local range a few weeks ago and there was a guy there who was obviously employed as a private security guard. Apparently he had just taken some kind of re-qualification test. He had his range bag in front of him but was complaining that he couldn't find his handgun. I guess he had left his range bag unattended for a moment, and somebody employed by the range decided to confiscate his gun to teach him an object lesson. Idiot mistakes need to be corrected immediately.

NavyLT
May 9, 2008, 11:37 AM
4. Always keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.

Sorry, I just can't agree to this one in all circumstances. Now, yes, if you are handling the gun, as in showing it to someone, then unload first. Otherwise, for me, it stays loaded 24/7 until it is time to not use the gun, as in cleaning or displaying to others.

Silvanus
May 9, 2008, 11:46 AM
Quote:
4. Always keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.

Sorry, I just can't agree to this one.

It depends on what "ready to use" means. If it "using" includes carrying and putting the gun in the nightstand and stuff like that, I agree. If "using" means shooting, I too disagree.

PunchPaper
May 9, 2008, 06:48 PM
Even as a teen, I knew that you need to assume all guns are loaded
and not to point a gun at anything you don't want to kill.

For an adult to do this at a job is flat out wrong.

Also gives responsible gun owners a bad name!

Even at the range, please give me the courtesy of keeping your gun
pointed down range!

You don't want to be "talking with your hands" with a gun in it.

-1 for poor gun safety!

rogertc1
May 9, 2008, 06:53 PM
5. Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to KILL.

Troy26
May 9, 2008, 06:58 PM
About a year ago, during my first trip to a gun range, I had made the mistake of setting my gun down in such a way that it was NOT pointing down range like it should have been. Someone walked by, turned it the other way, and politely explained that it was essential that I do so in the future.
1. I didn't feel the need to "save face."
2. I didn't feel he was intruding or "getting in my business"
3. I recognized that what I was doing was incorrect and unsafe
4. I thanked him for taking the time to point it out to me

Boris Bush
May 9, 2008, 09:12 PM
When I was a civilian I had a co-worker point a 1911 at my chest, it was unloaded and caught on video. I took the pistol from him and hit him in the forehead with it (leaving a nice mark). He said he was going to make a complaint, Not before I did though. He was banned from entering the gun department at the store we worked at. He was the fishing dept manager. He is lucky all I did was smack him with it. I was so mad words can not express what I felt...........

ElectricHellfire
May 9, 2008, 09:19 PM
I would have asked to see the gun then kicked his balls up into his neck when he tried to hand it to me. Thats just me though. :)

somerled
May 9, 2008, 09:32 PM
Someone points a gun at me, and assuming I didn't kill the guy or he killed me, I would skip the human resources department and call 911 straight away. No reasonable person deliberately points a firearm, loaded or not, at someone else unless he or she wants to terrorize, injure or kill another. It wasn't a joke. If the investigators figure he isn't reasonable, there are nice mental health care facilities for those who prove to be a danger to themselves or others. Such people, reasonable or not, shouldn't be roaming around society.

Keltyke
May 9, 2008, 09:45 PM
What he did is called "brandishing" and "assault". Some states consider simply pointing a firearm as "use of deadly force". I'd have had him charged jailed.

That crap isn't even remotely funny. I reamed a smart a$$ at a local pawn shop the other day for jokingly suggesting I was going to shoot him with my CW. Wouldn't have been AT ALL funny if a plain clothes LEO had overheard him.

Hk_Allday
May 9, 2008, 10:05 PM
I suppose for me it would really depend on the specific situation.

If it were an "education opportunity" for someone who was uninitiated and unfamiliar with firearm safety or firearms in general, well bashing them in the head for a "novice no-no" might be a little overkill when a constructive course correction could suffice and leave all concerned better off than they started the day.

On the other hand, if it were "wanna-be rambo, ex-leader of seel team 47", trying to impress or acting like an idiot, well bashing him in his forhead with his own balls seems a little more appropriate.

just my nickel's worth.

ElectricHellfire
May 9, 2008, 10:25 PM
bashing him in his forhead with his own balls seems a little more appropriate.

Hell yeah. Thats what I'm talking about.:D

Wait, I'm Reloadin'
May 10, 2008, 02:15 AM
seen/heard this happen too many times, three yrs ago, once a co-worker dry fired an empty 92 Berreta three times into another co-workers belly, no complaints filed, just heated arguments. Few weeks back, a friends best friend lost a 15 year old son because a 21 year old did this and forgot it was loaded. **** Poor Training Leads to **** Poor Excuses!:(

JohnKSa
May 10, 2008, 02:28 AM
If your laws are similar to TX law, this is called "Deadly Conduct" and is a Class A misdemeanor.

Texas Penal Code ยง 22.05. DEADLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he recklessly engages in conduct that places another in imminent danger of serious bodily injury.
...
(c) Recklessness and danger are presumed if the actor knowingly pointed a firearm at or in the direction of another whether or not the actor believed the firearm to be loaded.

Th0r
May 10, 2008, 04:00 AM
Tell him a story about the countless amount of people to die from the mis-use of firearms. All the kids who ended up being shot or shooting themselves because they were ******* about... All the women who died because there husbands left their guns reloaded...

The best way is to educate...

wogpotter
May 10, 2008, 05:04 AM
The 12 Golden rules for Safe Gun Handling

1. Always treat the gun as loaded.
2. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
3. Always keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
4. Always keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.
5. Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy.
6. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
7. Learn the mechanical and handling characteristics of the gun you are using.
8. Always use proper Ammunition.
9. Be sure the barrel is clear of obstructions before loading and shooting.
10. If your gun fails to fire when the trigger is pulled, hold your shooting position for several seconds; then with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, carefully unload the gun.
11. Don't rely on the gun's safety to keep it from firing.
12. Be aware of your surroundings when handling guns so you don't trip or lose your balance and accidentally point and/or fire the gun at anyone or anything.


These just keep expanding!
Remember when there were 2 rules for safe gun handling, then the "10 commandments", now 12.

I'm not disputing that these are good safety rules, just that we're beginning to follow SOP instead of THINKING while having a forearm in our posession.

For example some of these rules apply mainly at a target ranges, but don't apply overall, as in unloaded firearms when carried for self-defence is a bad idea.

If rules are going to be made they should be clear, and apply in all situations, but should NOT be blindly applied..

The most dangerous part of a gun is the nut behind the trigger.

In answer to the original post.
after 5 years it's way past time to do anything.
However my usual response to something like this is to take the person off to one side & explain firmly, but politely, the error, and why it is important to not do things like this.

Ruthless4christ
May 10, 2008, 05:38 PM
down here in guatemala everyone carries guns openly and there are gun fights all the time. a few months ago a buddy of mine (big shot cattle owner) gets a kick out of pointing his gun at people. his favorite stunt is to drive up alongside of you while youa re at a stop light, slamming on his brakes and ponting the gun at you. i have seen him doing it to several people and he started doing it to me. he did it once, and I told him to knock it off. the second time he did it i went up to him and told him that i was not used to people pointing firarms at me unless they were gonna use them. I told him the next time he pointed the gun at me he had better have a bullet flying out of it becuase i sure would.

well he laughed even harder until a few days later one evening he was driveing by my house and i saw the barrel of his glock point out the window in front of his stupid giggle. I did not for a minute hesitate to pull out my Colt 1911 army A1 and send the crimson trace laser(which i always keep on) right onto the tip of his nose. Tires squeeled, he took off, and he never did it again.

I knew all aong he would never want to do me harm, but in a country where firearm safety is not even thought about, it was the only way I could think of to teach hima lesson.

M14fan
May 10, 2008, 05:53 PM
I remember when it was two.

1)All guns are treated as loaded all the time.
2)Never point your gun at anything you are not prepared to destroy.

Dismantler
May 11, 2008, 04:01 PM
To answer the OP's question...walking away does not show weakness in a situation like this. You held yourself above the bad behavior, and did not give the stupid co-worker a chance to escalate the nonsense and possibly cause an accident.

Sometimes it is just not practical to take a loaded gun away from somebody and wonk him on the noggin with it. You did fine.

TexasSeaRay
May 11, 2008, 04:17 PM
and while showing it off to other colleagues jokingly poined it at me (it was loaded but not cocked).

The showing off and joking is what would've done it for me.

I would have shoved it up his ass on the spot.

Jeff

Don Lu
May 11, 2008, 05:09 PM
I can't say that not saying anything at that time showed weakness, many times in situations, we just don't know how to react. however, not speaking up left that person in a position to possible harm you or someone else. when you walked away there were others still possibly in harms way. how do YOU fel about not speaking up..what would you do in the same situation today ?

alfred
May 11, 2008, 11:12 PM
I have a very big problem with ALL of these folk who carry with these holsters that point their weapons at people.I once had a run in for questioning a Georgia GBI agent about leaning over the counter at a convenience store with a coat on and his gun pointing at everyone entering or leaving the store.He threatened me with arrest after informing me who he was and my saying,"Well you have been trained not to point your gun at some one".He claimed that "it was a legal holster and he could point it at anyone as long as it was in the holster".That did not change my opinion.I informed him that "I would love to have every one of these witnesses testify at my trial".

I see these holster advertised and I think they should be outlawed.You can not wear one without ignoring the very rule of not pointing a gun at others.I don't care about all of your reasoning.You are knowingly and willingly pointing your weapon at me,at others.I have heard the reasoning behind why you need to be a fast draw artist to save my life and others.I say,Bull Manure.

I do not care who you are or your reasoning for doing so.I will make a formal complaint if you point a gun at me.I will also try to defend my self by running or any other way I can.I am sorry to say,but I do believe that some Civilian,Military and Law Enforcement personnel get the training that they follow and practice from watching TV.I have come to this opinion from 63 years of observation.thanks,alfred

xsquidgator
May 12, 2008, 11:36 AM
Kind if hits close to home for me... my retired dad is in a circle of older retired guys who are all pilots of one kind or another and meet for coffee & BS every morning (used to be at their small airport until it closed). One of their circle is a loudmouthed ex-Navy carrier pilot who's terribly impressed with himself, still wears a leather flight jacket full of patches etc, who's unfortunately a few beers short of a six pack. One morning while doing their routine ex-carrier pilot guy whips out a pistol of his he brought with him to show everyone, don't know if he has a CWP or not. Then he points it at my dad, and when my dad complained, he pulls the F-ing trigger while laughing "hey it ain't loaded"!

I found out about it months later, and I don't know what I would have done had I been there. I'm not much of a fighter but there darn well would have been some sort of a scene or worse, and I'd probably have called the police on him too. What the hell goes through the minds of some of these idiots? Ignorance is one thing but there are people like Mr numbuts ex-carrier pilot who go way beyond ignorance into Darwin-award stupidity. I didn't realize how PO'd this made me until I just now typed it out.

I got swept once at a range by a guy who should have known better, and didn't make anything of it like I should have. Not next time, "it's not loaded" as an excuse is worse than simply not knowing about the first 2 rules of gun safety since it implies that sometimes the safety rules don't apply to you.

Keltyke
May 12, 2008, 12:04 PM
What are some of these cretins thinking? The first thing I'da done was wet my pants. Being 6'2" and 280 with no "backup" in me, the second thing I'da done was whip the guys hiney severely with the nearest hard object! Barring that, I'd fur sur have him arrested for assault, making terrorist threats, brandishing a firearm and anything else my lawyer could think of.

Dear gawd, they don't realize how quickly "hey, it ain't loaded" can go to "Gee, Officer, I thought it wasn't loaded."

I'll give y'all an object lesson on this. Back when I was about 22 and working as a security guard, I had my first open carry license, and I wore a S&W 4" .357 mag. loaded with JHPs. It was about 3 o'clock on third shift at a warehouse one night. All the TV stations had long gone off, I'd eaten my supper, and read all the material I'd brought. I was a little sleepy and bored to tears. I was sitting in the guard shack (and I DO mean shack). I had my gun out and unloaded and was dry-firing it at "targets" around the room. I reloaded and reholstered. A few minutes later, I pulled it out again. I aimed at a door jamb and (did you catch what I didn't do?) and pulled the trigger. KABOOM! Damn, a .357 is LOUD in the dead of night! Yup, I'd forgotten to unload it again. I almost wet myself as the JHP magnum shot a hole clean through two 2 x 4s, a drywall, a piece of sheet tin, and kept going, who knows where. After I got my heart out of my throat, I reholstered and left it there! That's the LAST time I EVER "played" with a gun, and the last time I negligently dry-fired one.

These things aren't toys, it can happen to anyone, people. "Let's be safe out there."

Double J
May 12, 2008, 12:47 PM
Ain't nothing like a free gun. Been there.
--Anyone dumb enough to point a gun out of stupidity should be took out and beat severely. Things like that just don't wash.

alfred
May 12, 2008, 02:11 PM
"Everyone has the lawful right to shoot anyone unlawfully pointing a weapon at anyone"."It is also their right to disarm such in any manner available to them"."The claim of It is not loaded matters not"."Everyone is required to report such a flagrant violation of the law just as they are required to report a murder or a bank robbery".This is as near as I can remember the Judge putting it to a defendant once,who did not think he "was treated right from the start because he was drunk and did not know what he was doing".Apparently in his belief,being drunk left him without the obligation of responsibly.The judge disagreed.He also disagreed with the name the guy called him.

The defendant was one who "thought it was right for him to point a unloaded gun at someone in play,but did not think it right for someone to point a loaded gun at him and say they would shoot him if he did not drop his unloaded one".This seems to be the way these folk are.

Then you have the ones who "think it is funny to see just how close they can come to you without hitting you when firing at you!Yea,I have been the precipitant of this kind of fun by a first cousin.He denied it,but I was believed by all who knew me,him or the both of us.He did the world a favor by committing suicide to keep from going to prison shortly after this.It may have kept me out of prison as I had the fullest intention of shooting him if he ever pointed a gun at me again.

I firmly believe that anyone who will deliberately point a gun at someone not in self defense will kill some one for fun if they get the chance and think that they can get away with it.They prove that they get off on making people think that they are going to die.Think about it!

I agree with the Judge.alfred

re-pete
May 12, 2008, 07:42 PM
A guy I used to hang out with pointed his 357 at me one time. I took one large step, twisted the gun in his hand, and within a second I was in control of the pistol and had it shoved into his neck. That's when I told him to NEVER point a gun at me, loaded or not.

I don't hang out with him anymore though, and it's because of this incident.


My philosophy is: If you point a gun at me, you'd better dammed well use it. And you better hit me with the first shot, cause you ain't gonna get a second one.

Keltyke
May 13, 2008, 11:08 AM
"About five years back at my current job an office colleague (not a friend) brought his revolver in the office and while showing it off to other colleagues jokingly poined it at me"

My CWP instructor told us that, if someone comes at you, you MUST assume he has the ability and desire to injure or kill you. That is:

If someone adopts a karate stance, you must assume he's a 10th degree black belt.

If someone picks up a ball bat, you must assume he's going to cave your skull in.

If someone pulls a knife, you must assume he's an expert in fighting with it, including throwing it.

If someone pulls a gun, you must assume he's going to pull the trigger.

The penalty for the wrong assumption is very severe.