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View Full Version : cmw2212 - NOT a Good Trader! BEWARE


gorgon24
May 3, 2008, 10:21 PM
Don't even bother with this guy!

He will lead you on forever but never seal the deal.

Actually he will never complete the deal once he agrees to it.

Trader / Buyer Beware!

dave421
May 3, 2008, 10:44 PM
so you're condemning someone because you DIDN'T do a deal? Last I checked, people are allowed to do whatever they want until money or goods are exchanged. Remind me to never do business with you. I'd hate for you to assume that we had a deal and then try to dirty my name because you were mistaken. In case you're not aware, people do business in more than one place. I don't know CMW2212 but he is on another forum that I'm on and he has great feedback. From looking at what you posted in the FS thread here, it looks to me like you made a mistake and now you're upset that you didn't get what you want.

ssilicon
May 4, 2008, 09:55 AM
Agreed. If no money was in jeopardy, then there was no bad deal. Maybe a deal that never happened, but not a bad deal.

Huntergirl
May 4, 2008, 10:20 AM
Sorry, but I disagree. Whatever happened to a person's word as truth? Someone can tie up a sale for a long time, while the other person may be losing a sale somewhere else, or losing buyers to someone else while waiting for the sale to finalize. I've seen this happen. Something akin to an employer who promises a certain position to someone, only to put that new employee in a less desirable position that is difficult to fill, all the while telling him, he will get the position soon. Then keep the original position open for another prospective employee. Trashy, very trashy.

BTW, Gorgon has several great feedbacks from others on this Forum.

rantingredneck
May 4, 2008, 10:50 AM
My understanding is that CMW was the seller though, not gorgon.

And I had a great transaction FTF with CMW a couple weeks ago.

Huntergirl
May 4, 2008, 11:16 AM
So Gorgon may have had other possibilities for buying opportunities....wasted if he's waiting on someone.

dave421
May 4, 2008, 12:13 PM
but if you read his posts, it appears that he ASSUMED that they had a deal. I don't know about the rest of you but I don't assume anything when it comes to online deals. Until the person specifically tells me that we have a deal, we don't. I've done way too much dealing online with people telling me that they want it and offering a bunch of different deals but never following through with it. Unless I tell them that it's theirs, it isn't.


Gorgon's feedback is kind of irrelevant as well. Here's he's posting up to damage someone's reputation that HE NEVER DID BUSINESS WITH. He wasn't scammed. He didn't get something other than what he was expecting. He didn't have to wait 3 weeks for the seller to ship something. He's just mad because he didn't "win" the item. I don't believe that's cause to say "Beware" and "Not a good trader".

rantingredneck
May 4, 2008, 12:29 PM
What he /\ said.

Huntergirl
May 4, 2008, 06:58 PM
OK my bad. I misread into it.

gorgon24
May 4, 2008, 08:09 PM
Please review the thread "WTS Kimber Ultra CDP (NC)".

You will see I am not the only one that "sealed the deal" with cmw2212. At least one other had it in the bag.

I was NOT trying to damage anyones reputation. I did however feel it was important to let others know how someone operates.

I answered his post and offered EXACTLY what he wanted. He accepted. It was complete. What did I misunderstand? Isn't that the way it works? I am a man of my word. When I tell someone, "We have a deal" that is what I mean. Should I not expect that from another?

Huntergirl - nailed it perfectly .... I did miss another great opportunity thanks to cmw2212.

dave421 - I would Never assume we had a deal ... unless you told me "we have a deal". The I would expect you to hold up your end of the bargain. Just as I think you would expect of me. Am I correct, Sir? If we both agreed to make a trade and all that needed to be done was iron out the details then you never heard from me again wouldn't you get a little upset and want to warn other TFL members about me?
Sorry we won't be doing business. I really like working with honest folk who stand behind their word. (like Huntergirl!)

rantingredneck - I am glad you had a great experience. Not so with me and at least one other.

ssilicon - I did lose money and a trade because of cmw2212. So in my book that is bad deal.

Sorry if I offened anyone .... but I thought this forum was here to let folks know the GOOD (which I have done in several cases) and the BAD (which I have done for cmw2212 only - so far).

It is like this - I call it like it is. Some folks don't like or can't handle this. But I don't sugar coat anything. To much of that going on anymore. Politically Correct I am Not. Sorry but that is just me.

rantingredneck
May 4, 2008, 08:20 PM
Sounds as if your complaint is legitimate then. My apologies.

gorgon24
May 4, 2008, 08:29 PM
rantingredneck - Thank you! No problem between sportsmen.

cmw2212
May 4, 2008, 08:35 PM
The only thing I will say is I never committed to the trade with either parties. We never exchanged info or FFL's. I know I IM'd the other guy and thought I had IM'd you also and if not I do apologize for the oversight. I will not go into details but my situation was at the point I could not afford to do a trade for the Kimber. thepish IM'd me on 4/27 at 6:26 so he was the first to contact me.

gorgon24
May 4, 2008, 08:47 PM
BULL!

If it was sold why did you have me sending picture after picture. We talked. I offered several different firearms. You did commit (to 3 people now) ... 2 of which were after you had apparently sold it to thepish!

If what you say is true and thepish was first to contact you on 4/27 at 6:26 (and you apparently worked out a deal) Please explain your post:
04-29-2008, 09:01 PM
Bump, trade offers considered. Small revolvers + cash or Glock + cash

Whatever your situation you could have answered my many emails or PM's to let me know the deal was off.

This is NOT good business.

I am happy for thepish and hope he gets his Kimber quickly.

cmw2212
May 4, 2008, 09:03 PM
To try and clear this up. thepish IM'd me but hadn't made up his mind, he was the first person to give me an I'll take it for my asking price which he did on 5/1 at 2:46. Do you have any IM's where I said "OK it's a trade". I looked through my stuff and all I found are offers. Once again I apologize if you feel you have been wronged. I have nothing else to add.

gorgon24
May 4, 2008, 09:46 PM
Well Sir. The quota on PM's is 150. My box was almost full and recently I cleared everything out. So to answer your question "no" I don't have (nor do I save others) PM's. To me it was a matter of trust.

You did notice that another person must NOT have saved your "OK it's a trade" PM either.

It is sad that because you REFUSED to answer my repeated request for communication that I lost another deal and money!

It is not a matter of how I "feel", Sir. It is FACT!

Face it ... you played at least 3 people and accepted ALL 3 offers.

Why wouldn't I and the other party that thought it was a done deal for him as well be hacked off?

Is there anyone reading this that wouldn't? Lost a great deal, lost big money, and that is just me.

Sorry ... I ain't buying the "cmw2212 is the victim" act.

cmw2212
May 4, 2008, 10:06 PM
I haven't played anyone and I have never said I was the victim. Where I am from for it to be a deal both parties have to accept it and you exchange information. Just an FYI I would not have accepted the last deal, my wife wanted something stainless for carry so blued would have been out. In the end, I feel that the property is the owners and he can sell or not sell to whoever he wants. I have had buyers and sellers back out on me and I accept it as part of dealing on the internet. I am not going to touch the one about me accepting offers from 3 people, I do still have my IM logs from the last week. If it makes you feel better to vent here then that's OK. Anyone who doesn't deal with me in the future because of this, I understand. Do you have any emails you sent me? The only ones I got are the 3 with pics.

dave421
May 4, 2008, 10:11 PM
Gorgon, I find it odd that neither of the 2 people that were supposedly ripped off have any proof of him agreeing to a trade. Sorry but I stand by what I said earlier. It sounds like you assumed too much here. Perhaps it's time to be a bit more mature and delete this thread or change the title at a minimum.

gorgon24
May 4, 2008, 10:20 PM
What happened to -
I have nothing else to add.

I am not going to touch the one about me accepting offers from 3 people,
Of course you're not! It is right in the sale thread. You can't defend it!

I am not venting. I am letting others know your character.

Blued / Stainless ... whatever. I offered stainless!

I feel that the property is the owners and he can sell or not sell to whoever he wants.
I agree 100%. But when you make the agreement you are bound to it. At least that is the way it works for honest people. But not for you according to this next statement ....
I have had buyers and sellers back out on me and I accept it as part of dealing on the internet.
So I guess when dealing with you it is a crap shoot.

Very sad, Sir. Very sad.

rantingredneck
May 4, 2008, 10:21 PM
It does seem at least that there was confusion between the two of you on whether you had a "deal" or not.

Even so this is not like you were ripped off. Not out any $ or a shipped firearm. I can see frustration if from your perspective there was a "deal". I've had people post an "I'll take it" in a thread and then never hear from them again. Especially in a thread last spring when I was trying to sell a Super Redhawk. I think I sold it 10 times between here and THR and never got it sold, I'd either get an "I'll take it", followed by "my wife won't let me" or an "I'll take it", followed by silence. I never posted negative feedback for any of those folks. Wasn't worth the drama, I eventually got it traded. Yes it was frustrating though.

Write it off as a misunderstanding and get on with things.

Life is too short.

Again, I've personally met CMW2212 and as I said before had a great transaction with him. Regardless of what went on here with this "deal" that is fact.

gorgon24
May 4, 2008, 10:29 PM
dave421 - I appreciate you taking the time to look at this from both point of views and making a informed decission. But obviously you don't have all the information. As I stated I do NOT keep my PM's as the box only holds 150. Besides I am used to sending and deleting. I deal with what I feel are honest people all the time. Why would I need to keep a log? Well now I know why obviously.

rantingredneck - but I am out money and missed out on a heck of a deal.

Let's get something straight - If it was just one person (me) saying cmw2212 made a deal with me and then failed to follow through, that is one thing. But look at his sale post. There is another guy with almost the same story! This doesn't seem ODD to you guys? Make a deal with 3 guys at the same time but one person gets it while the other 2 think they have it. That isn't the same as "I'll take it".

Why shouldn't I let others know?

gorgon24
May 4, 2008, 10:34 PM
Tell you what ... I am going to bed.

You figure it out and I will check in tomorrow.

I do appreciate everyones opinion. I don't mean to hurt anyone personally. I just mean to warn ALL TFL users of potential problem sellers and/or trader.

Have a great evening.

cmw2212
May 4, 2008, 10:36 PM
What happened to -

Quote:
I have nothing else to add.


I am not going to let you trash me without comment. Oh and yeah this sounds stainless

Originally Posted by gorgon24
It is a beautiful Colt royal blue. It has sat in my safe since I purchased it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cmw2212
What is the finish?

Way to take this out of context.

I agree 100%. But when you make the agreement you are bound to it. At least that is the way it works for honest people. But not for you according to this next statement ....

Quote:
I have had buyers and sellers back out on me and I accept it as part of dealing on the internet.

So I guess when dealing with you it is a crap shoot

Yes I have agreed to buy stuff and buyers disappear and I have agreed to sell stuff and not heard from them again.


And I do not see any I'll take it's in the for sale ad.

Ok, now that everyone has been warned about how big a rip off artist I am maybe we can work on something more constructive.



As far as the other person, he could not complete a deal in the timeframe I needed. It was not his fault he was in FL and lived in PA.

gorgon24
May 4, 2008, 10:49 PM
Excuse #1:
The stainless I was referring to was a Ruger SP101 - Remember?
BTW - Anyone can falsify PM logs using a text file.

Excuse #2:
As far as the other person, he could not complete a deal in the timeframe I needed. It was not his fault he was in FL and lived in PA.
Hmmm.... Not what his post indicates. Your facts are NOT agreeing.

Excuse #3:
And I do not see any I'll take it's in the for sale ad.
Oh come on. Like that was our only means of communication.

Please give the people reading this a little credit for having the mental capacity to think for themselves.

cmw2212
May 4, 2008, 10:55 PM
Yes I turned the Ruger down due to barrel length. The only thing his post states is he bought the Kimber also. Once again, no I'll take it or cash exchanged hands. If you look in the PIF thread he states there he is in FL currently. I would post the IM but I would probably just fake it.

I never OK'd the deal for the Glock and the Colt. I am sorry you assumed that I had but that did not happen.

cmw2212
May 4, 2008, 11:03 PM
Arguing on the internet is an exercise in futility.
Anything can be faked with enough time, correct?
So if you do come up with an IM showing I agreed to a deal it could be a fake also, right?
And you are right we had contact thru IM's and I have 3 emails you sent me, I would post them but they could be more fakes.
Following that line of thinking, you have given everyone your thoughts on this so why don't we stop wasting bandwidth on something that is over and done with.
The kimber is shipping to thepish tomorrow and nothing can change that at this point.
I spoke with him on the phone earlier as he was needlessly concerned about this transaction.

DonR101395
May 4, 2008, 11:06 PM
I think we got the idea. Is it necessary for you guys to continue to drag out a disagreement in public that neither will ever believe the other's intentions?

gorgon24
May 5, 2008, 06:48 AM
DonR101395 - my only (original) intent was to warn others. As I believe was the other person that was lead to believe he bought the firearm. And this isn't about intentions. Feel free to contact the other party that was told he also had purchased the firearm (1 of 3).

cmw2212 - Not sure how Bandwidth plays into it. Bandwidth or throughput is Not really an issue as it refers to the data rate of our associated network connections and / or interfaces.

I will give you one thing - You HAVE been a huge waste of time, energy and money. Which is where my frustration lays.
All this could have been avoided by answering of my MANY communication attempts. Instead of leaving me hanging. NOT Cool.
Every time you requested something (i.e. information, pictures, etc.) I responded as soon as I logged on.
Didn't I (and the other member you sold the Kimber to) as a TFL member deserve the same respect? Especially when you were breaking an agreement!

If you are reading this you have to ask yourself, "what does gorgon24 have to gain or lose?" Chances are I may cause some folks like (dave421 possibly) to never trade with me. But to warn others it was worth the risk. I am gaining Nothing. I just wanted to let the good, honest people here on TFL know that there are individuals who may Not do exactly as they indicate.

Maybe I am wrong. Call me old fashioned. I grew up on a hand shake and trusting a man at his word. But the world is a different place now. I for one refuse to be like the rest of the world. My word can still be trusted and I stand behind what 100%. Has America changed that much? Am I that far off base? Do you have to mislead, lie, cheat and do whatever it takes even on a friendly board of fellow enthusiast? No wonder the anti crowd is winning, at least they are sticking together. I am sorry ... Maybe I don't belong here.

If I have accomplished nothing else at least thepish can feel fairly confident (because of this exposure) he will indeed receive the Kimber. And others are warned of your trading practices.

coachteet
May 5, 2008, 08:52 AM
I PM'ed you twice on an offer of trade in the past 3 days, and I received no reply back. Is it possible you did not receive some PM's? (And if you did, please PM me back, even if the deal is off the table).

gorgon24
May 5, 2008, 08:57 AM
;)

Thanks though. I appreciate your input.

You had turned down my trade or we would have got together a loooong time ago.

This is you (coachteet@yahoo.com) correct?

coachteet
May 5, 2008, 09:38 AM
I'm going to send another email address to you via PM, let's not bore these folks.

gorgon24
May 5, 2008, 11:19 AM
check it coachteet

thepish
May 5, 2008, 02:15 PM
cmw2212 is a great trader !!! fast responses , even available via phone whenever i call . Great guy btw.

JohnKSa
May 5, 2008, 03:03 PM
Looks like we're down to "I said/he said" at this point so I think it's time for a lock.

Some words of advice.

1. When conducting transactions over the internet, PMs and emails are the only evidence you have of what was said and done. Deleting them before the transaction is complete and both parties are satisfied is not an ideal strategy, regardless of the reason.

2. It's a mistake to assume that everyone is adept at the skill of written communication. Messages regarding a transaction should be brief, to the point, and straightforward. Simple short sentences are good and one should not assume anything past what is actually plainly written.

3. In general, courtesy requires that a transaction be completed or clearly declined in a reasonable amount of time for the reasons cited on this thread.