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View Full Version : A real life Scenario Advise.


Fer
May 2, 2008, 02:19 PM
I would like to present to you all a possible scenario in witch I might be involved and I will really appreciate your honest responsible input on this.

In my neighborhood it is common that when people get out of their cars to open the gate some burglar pups out of nowhere and robs them at gun point or takes the car, and on some of the worst cases they make you enter your home and then rob the house and depending on the situation some cases of rape have been reported.

I understand that a burglar can’t pup out of nowhere and people that have been caught off guard have been because the have been careless and naïve in thinking it could not happen to them. This is reason I make sure no one is close to my house before I get out of the car; if someone is close I drive by and wait till they are far. When I get out of my car I have my gun with me and try not to make it obvious I am armed, I am constantly looking in all directions searching for anyone coming my way, and if a burglar is looking at me without me knowing He will know I am alert and may decide to find someone else.

The scenario is, if I get out of the car and while I am opening the gate I spot someone not from the neighborhood looking like a burglar coming towards me, to close for me to react and get back into my car or my house etc, what would you do? Would you draw or wait for him to act first? Lets leave the law aspects aside of brandishing or drawing on an innocent person because I live outside the USA and our laws may differ from yours, just based on what I have presented what would you do?

Dan M.
May 2, 2008, 02:28 PM
I'd have my firearm out and I'd be watching his hands very carefully. Heck, given the situation as you've described it, I'd have my firearm out everytime I got out of the car to open the gate, whether I saw anybody or not.

xrocket
May 2, 2008, 02:53 PM
Given the circumstances, I would move and retreat to cover (car or inside gate) and simultaneously in a loud authoritative voice challenge the person to stop and not come any closer. If they continued to advance I would draw and give one last loud verbal halt to them. Failure by them to stop would warrant a complete condition red. Of course, we are only talking seconds from start to action.

On a secondary note; Have you cleared all bushes, shrubs, trees and plantings in front of your gate and inside your wall that somebody could hide behind? Also, would an electric gate be appropriate so you would not be caught outside your gate and car?

Now a days, it's dangerous everywhere and none are truly safe.



.

Dismantler
May 2, 2008, 04:38 PM
This is difficult because we do not know what your laws are, or if they are even enforced. One thing for sure, if I saw a man coming toward me and he did not belong there, or he was coming toward me in a way that made me feel that he was a threat...I would have my gun out and in plain sight. Let him see that I am not an easy target. If there was a group of them, I would be covering them, given the information that you have provided.

What does your lawyer advise? I mean, don't take a tactical position because a fellow in the U.S.A. that does not understand your laws or culture suggests it.

Fer
May 2, 2008, 04:42 PM
Both replies where excellent! Thank you very much. I had thought about retreating to cover and all but not to also make a verbal warning at the same time, just by doing that I take control of the situation and like you said if He continues my way there is something else in His mind.

I have cleared the are of trees and bushes like you have stated, will look into a Electric motor to hook up to the gate, also a great Idea.

What if after I make the warning the guy stops, what should I do next? Tell Him to lift up His shirt to see if his carrying a gun? Or tell him to take the other side walk and not turn my back on Him until His gone? Any other Ideas.

Wonderful replies, thank you both.

Franklin

TexasSeaRay
May 2, 2008, 05:32 PM
Been a long time since I worked in the Honduras (early 80's during the whole El Salvador/Honduras/Nicarauga Sandinista problems), but back then, the right to self defense and to challenge a probable/potential assailant was a LOT more liberal than it was here in the USA.

Don't know if times have changed. Hope like hell they haven't.

The problem with retreat that many forget, is that it is not uncommon for burglars and assailants to work in pairs. One will be in your face, and one will flank you from behind, out of your line of sight.

You can retreat right into harm's way.

Cover is always good, but make sure you know how to maximize its effectiveness to your advantage.

My instincts are pretty good about good people versus bad people. If someone is approaching me in an assertive or dominant manner, and they do not belong where they are at, and it is dark, I have no compulsions about asking them in my own assertive voice, "Can I help you?" As I'm asking, I'll have a hand on my firearm and be ready to draw.

Next move is theirs.

If THEY retreat, I go inside and report the situation to the authorities. If they continue to advance, I draw on them and order them to stop right there, hands in plain sight and on your knees. Failure to comply and I cock the hammer. Continue to advance, and now that you've given them THREE clear opportunities to make their intentions known, their intentions are hostile.

How you then choose to deal with a hostile threat is up to you.

Jeff

Dismantler
May 2, 2008, 05:35 PM
A lot of what you should do depends upon your legal and political situation. Are the police honest? Are laws enforced? Does it help if you are wealthy and have political connections? Does anybody care if you shoot a person that tries to invade your home?

You seem to be hesitant about what to do. Do you uderstand the legal and social implications in your country for using deadly force? For example, in the U.S.A. there are many different state and city laws about drawing/pointing a weapon. And social situations are different. In a bad section of a city, a bad guy is probably not going to go to the police if you warn him away with a gun. He's probably got a long criminal record. But if you pull a gun on a rich kid who is having some fun breaking into your house, his rich father is likely to call the police and sue you in civil court.

Again, you really should consult a good criminal lawyer in your area and ask what you can and cannnot do.

Doggieman
May 2, 2008, 06:03 PM
Hey FerFal, love your blog and your survivalism posts on other forums. Good to see you here!

Mainah
May 2, 2008, 06:07 PM
I'd consider making a distraction. Wire some really bright lights or a sound device in a strategic location and install a remote on/off switch, something you could keep in your car like a garage door opener. The goal would be to press a button and get the assailants to look away from you for a very brief time.

Fer
May 2, 2008, 06:20 PM
Dismantler,

First I would like to apologize because I see there where 3 replies including yours when I made my second post, for some reason I did not see it, so all three replies where excellent!.
Regarding the law, well the law as it is written says if you shoot someone you will go to jail for 24hrs not sure how much time until some investigations are made. Like Texas explained, in real life laws are not consistently enforced, police is corrupt to a large extent, what I’ve heard is that it depends who you shoot, if you shoot a low life felon with a record and report it to police they will get ****** off because of all the paper work they will have to fill out, and rumor continues that they will advise that next time just get rid of the body and don’t bother to report it. But if you shoot the son of a known business man that threatened your life then you will have to pay big bucks to get out of the jam. Still just rumors, but I have read of many killings that are one day news in the paper and never hear about the incident again or if the suspects where put in jail or not.
So its kind of the old west, most citizens pack a gun incase the Indians attack. A lawyer friend of mine says that if you shoot someone inside your property from 6:00pm to 6:00am the law protects you as the dead person had no business in your property in those hours, and if He was in your property His intentions where not good.
Personally I feel that if I shot someone that tried to pull a gun on me I would get out fairly quick, hope I don’t have to find out for real. Like you said if I pulled the gun on a innocent by passer chances are He wont report it to the authority, first because people understand the situation we live in and will understand you did because you are cautious. One time a pulled my gun a driver that was parked in front of my house at night, immediately He replied He was waiting for my neighbor and proceeded to move the car, my neighbor got ****** off and began yelling across the street that they where not criminals, but that was it, I tried to explain but She was not listening so I went inside.
Second most of the people that are stupid enough to be walking late at night are mostly ignorant people that due to lack of proper education don’t even know the laws and don’t even know they could report to the authorities the incident. In a sarcastic way it would be easier to get away with it here than in the states.

kgpcr
May 2, 2008, 07:58 PM
Pulll a gun on a kid walking down the street??? not in the US you cant do that. What the hell is wrong with people who would pull on a kid walking down the street? I might put my hand on my gun but certainly would not pull it. This is paranoia at its finest. Things like that give CCW a bad name. the day a kid walking down the street makes me pull my weapon with out him showing any agression towards me i hope they pull my CCW. You cant just pull a gun on a person who looks like the boogie man. He poses no threat to you at all at that moment. would i keep an eye on him, for sure! You cant pull a gun because he may be a threat, hell you could pull on everyone you see! Now if Honduras is like some of the shat holes i was in when i was in the Marines i would be wearing my weapon on the outside and have a few grenades as well.

TexasSeaRay
May 2, 2008, 08:23 PM
Now if Honduras is like some of the shat holes i was in when i was in the Marines i would be wearing my weapon on the outside and have a few grenades as well.

As I said earlier, it's been a while since I've had anything to do with Central America--but during operations we did down there (military and civilian), there are no shortage of places in CA that you can get your throat slit for little more than the contents of your pocket . . . or worse, your female companion.

During Ortega's run down there, you had a hard time telling who was good and who wasn't. Paid to be prepared to shoot just about anyone. A lot of that spilled over into Honduras when the Sandinistas fell.

I have zero doubt that it is still there.

Fer, I wish you all the best. You live in a beautiful country with some extraordinarily wonderful people. Like us here in the USA, you have your share of dirtbags, and like us here in the USA, prosecution is often contigent upon where you defended yourself, how you defended yourself and most important of all, who you defended yourself against.

Jeff

Keltyke
May 2, 2008, 08:44 PM
Legalities aside...

Put the car between you and him. At the same time, in your most commanding voice, warn him to "STOP! STAY BACK!" If he continues to advance, draw your weapon pointed at the ground and issue the command again. If he still does not stop, aim the weapon and change your warning to "STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!" His actions will govern yours from then on.

We're assuming he's not showing a weapon and you have time for all this. If he's close or advancing rapidly, you might only have time for a quick "STOP!" If he's obviously armed with a knife, club, or gun, then the warnings go out the window. You're afraid of "grave bodily injury or death" and you react accordingly.

Ruthless4christ
May 2, 2008, 10:04 PM
kgpcr we are not paranoid we jsut live in central america. you have no idea what it is like.

FER I have always worried about the same thing here in Guatemala, Specially when i am in my house in Zacapa, which i am sure you have heard of.

Around here, what has happeend several times is the following.

Victim stops car in front of gate and opens it. enters car again and pulls the care in stopping again to get out and close the gate behind him.

the Perp takes the oppertunity to enter the gate WHILE the vic is driving through the open gate. Most gateways are dark, and most people wont have thier eyes on the mirrors while they enter. At this point the PErp can enter the house undetected or shoot you while you finish parking.

My sullution is to make sure the Gateway is well lighted and get a motorized door. the motorized door allowes you to clear the gate quickly and proceed on into the parking lot, while you keep your eyes on teh lighted gate.

Also a good dog helps to keep you aware, and you guys got soem lovely rotts down there.

good luck and stay safe.

Dismantler
May 3, 2008, 07:21 AM
I have read a few threads from Central and South America about the problem of home invasions and kidnappings. Home invasions are on the increase in the United States, too.

My advice to anybody who carries a gun is to have a good criminal defense lawyer aware of your situation. I have two that I can call from jail. One is a criminal defense lawyer, the other specializes in gun related cases. Have their phone numbers memorized, or have them at home in a place where your spouse can acess them. That can be your call from jail.

PLEASE! Have the phone numbers where your spouse can access them. You do not really want to be on the phone trying to describe the location of the number in a desk drawer.

That is my advice to you folks in Central America. Interview a few lawyers. Find out if they know gun/defense laws, and if they have taken such cases. Make sure that they know who you are, what you do, and that you will call them if the occasion arises.

Creature
May 3, 2008, 08:14 AM
For starters, I would remove anything from the vicinity of the gate that someone could use as cover or concealment (trees, shrubs, bushes, structures).

I would also investigate having some kind of remote installed that can be used to activate/deactivate the gate. That way, I wouldn't have to exit my vehicle in order to open and close the gate.

I would also consider hiring private security. Or simply moving to a more secure location where stick-ups at gunpoint are less common...

Dismantler
May 3, 2008, 08:23 AM
Fer,

Do you live alone, or is there somebody who can come out and cover you when you are working your gate? My wife would cover me, but she shoots. I understand that not all wives want to be involved with firearms, and you may not want her involved in covering you.

Fer
May 3, 2008, 10:42 AM
Like Texas and Ruthless said, it is a beautiful country and like anywhere else there are always people looking to take what you have earned with great effort. Even though crime has risen lately I think we are much better than other countries, likewise we are worst than others.
Back to the topic, my wife shoots, I mean she aint afraid of guns and has gone out to the range with me and can handle both of my guns, still I would not want to put her in that situation where she would have to watch my back while I enter the car, if anything goes wrong I do not know how I would happen if she got shot because she was doing guard duty,I could not forgive my self for putting her in that situation, that said She did back me up once when I confronted two perps that had broken into my back yard, took some stuff like clothes that where drying outside, my neighbor called to tell me he had seen them jumping out over my fence and that they where still on the street like half a block away, so I went to them to get my stuff back, the where like 17 or 16 years old, still could be dangerous, the where not profesional theves or anything just oportunist looking for anything to steal, I let them off with a warning as they where not in my property, but when I got back home with my stuff my wife was waiting for me at the gateway gun in hand waiting for me;). But untill I get the motor on my fence I just have to be extra careful when entering specially at night. But thank you all for the helpfull replies now I have more ideas to decide how I will act if it ever happens, not paranoid just trying not be caught off guard, better prepared.

Fer
May 3, 2008, 10:46 AM
Oh by the way!, I am not Ferfal, I am only Fer do not have a blog.:o

Keltyke
May 3, 2008, 10:57 AM
"still I would not want to put her in that situation where she would have to watch my back while I enter the car"

Fer,
That's an admirable thought, however...
My wife handles a gun as good or better than I do, and she is more than willing to protect herself, me, or our property with it. I would be proud to have her beside me or watching my back in a tactical situation. Sometimes in a very bad scene, a second gun and person makes a lot of difference. Another set of eyes is invaluable when there are multiple bad guys.

If your wife can shoot and is willing to, then she's not a liability, but an asset. Put the shoe on the other foot, as we say in America. You would feel badly if she got shot, sure. However, I'm sure she would feel just as badly if YOU got shot and she did nothing to defend you. If you BOTH respond to a situation, it might avoid EITHER of you being injured.

bobthewelder
May 3, 2008, 01:20 PM
I would carry a shotgun everytime I got out to open the gate. Odds are if you get out with a shotgun in plain site, they will find an easier target.