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View Full Version : Best shotgun to do SBS project?


Enron Exec
April 30, 2008, 10:53 PM
Hi guys, ive been thinking about doing a project pistol grip SBS sometime. Is there a model that has certain advantages over others, like a shorter receiver or an elevator that can somehow hold 1 more rnd? Has anyone see/done a semiauto SBS before? :D

VUPDblue
April 30, 2008, 10:58 PM
I've seen a Saiga 12 as an AOW and Remington 1100 as a SBS. The perfect project-gun for a SBS or AOW, IMHO, is the 870.

.351winchester
May 1, 2008, 02:28 PM
don't get more classic than a Remington 11 Whipit, not sure how reliable they are, and have to keep part of the stock. Not the shortest or best functioning, but adds a little historical flair to the project.
A Remington 17 20 ga. would make a nice little pump, like a smaller scale Ithaca Slamfire, Remington made one with a factory PG and 15" pipe.

Both these Remingtons turn up very cheap, maybe not often mint condition, make it a restoration project too.

The Russian Entry model Saiga is sweet as honey, with that 5 or 8 rounder jutting out and Krink or solid side folding stock, with stubby barrel (and made to work, by Russians, so it's a solid candidate. Now that's a PDW. That would be my dream shotgun.
I urge this one to be undertaken.

A few years back they were selling those Mag-7 pumps in a Shotgun form...they were like 250. Dealer. Maybe get one and turn it back to The SBS/Folder format, if you could ever find the shells (12 ga. Mini's, I think Aguila makes them for powder puff loads in break opens,if they're the same ones, come in buck and slug). That's your super-exotic project.

ISC
May 1, 2008, 10:14 PM
I want a SBS mossberg 500 to mount under one of my ARs like a M203.

DonR101395
May 1, 2008, 10:18 PM
The 870 is the easiest when comparing it to the Mossberg. I got lucky and found a 14" 590 minus the receiver and used those parts on my registered 500 receiver.

Savior 6
May 3, 2008, 07:45 PM
.351winchester, where did you see those Mag-7's. I've been looking to have one in collector or shooter grade. Thanks for any info.

.351winchester
May 3, 2008, 08:28 PM
SOG had them in 2005 IIRC, maybe later though. They were dirt cheap, $250. I believe. I doubt they have any in stock, but maybe they could point you in the right direction. Can't say I've seen one for sale other than that. There are wanted postings you can put on Gunsamerica.com and forthehunt.com.
These came with an 18" barrel and a fixed wood stock. Dunno how the SBS mags looked, but these were flush, 5 rd. I think. That has to be the fattest grip ever. I think they cock in reverse, the gun is in battery with the slide retracted, if I'm not mistaken.
Another in a long line of exotic, odd, innovative combat shotguns originating in South Africa.

Savior 6
May 4, 2008, 05:42 PM
.351winchester, Thanks for the good info. I'll give it a go.

.351winchester
May 4, 2008, 07:22 PM
No prob, good luck in finding one. Sucks when you gotta track down what you really want.

I want a SBS mossberg 500 to mount under one of my ARs like a M203.
Does the Northstar mount require extra NFA reg.? That Crossfire .223/12 gauge a few years back had one trigger and you selected the barrel/ammo reservoir with a switch, due to two firearm triggers on one gun requires an AOW I think (N/A to a dummy M203 37mm flare launcher)...?
That Crossfire was a great idea for an urban weapon, too bad they were so poorly made/designed (first pump in 50 years probably to have a single action bar, the forearm rattled like crazy NIB, twisted in your hand like it was a strip of flat spring steel).

Crosshair
May 5, 2008, 12:09 AM
I have been thinking about a Savage Model 24. You get a Shotgun AND a rifle. Plus, if you keep the barrels above 12" it counts as an AOW. I keep thinking about having a Class 3 dealer registering one as an AOW, cutting the barrels down to about 12.5" and transferring it back to me for $5.

.351winchester
May 5, 2008, 11:13 AM
What cal.s are you thinking? Sounds like the makings of a good backpack/survival gun, a little heavy though and I'd miss the stock. .22LR and 12 sounds good for that role. Like a beefy/powerful SA M6 Scout

Savior 6
May 5, 2008, 05:34 PM
Just bought one off of gunbroker. Check it out:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98482986

Bill DeShivs
May 5, 2008, 06:19 PM
Crosshair-
I believe a Savage 24 cut down would still be a "firearm made from a shotgun," SBS, or SBR.
It would not qualify as an AOW, because it was already a rifle/shotgun.
Bill

DonR101395
May 5, 2008, 06:24 PM
I believe a Savage 24 cut down would still be a "firearm made from a shotgun," SBS, or SBR.
It would not qualify as an AOW, because it was already a rifle/shotgun.


Correct, in order for it to be an AOW it can never of had a shoulder stock attached. It would have had to been shipped as a "virgin" receiver or with a pistol grip and at no time in it's existence have had a shoulder stock. You could still build it to any length you want though on a form 1. The tax for building an AOW is the same $200 as all of the other NFA items.

.351winchester
May 5, 2008, 07:39 PM
Savior- congrats. Dont see too many serial number 12 guns around. This calls for a thread of its own.

Crosshair
May 5, 2008, 08:15 PM
I believe a Savage 24 cut down would still be a "firearm made from a shotgun," SBS, or SBR. It would not qualify as an AOW, because it was already a rifle/shotgun.
Bill
Incorrect. Though It isn't well known, the configuration I am thinking about with the Savage Model 24 would be an AOW even though it does have a butstock.

US code: TITLE 26 > Subtitle E > CHAPTER 53 > Subchapter B > PART I > § 5845

(e) Any other weapon
The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

It costs $200 to register/make an AOW unless you are licensed as a manufacturer. It is only $5 to transfer an AOW. So I send the Model 24 off to the SOT, pay them to register it and cut the barrels down and then I only have to pay $5 to transfer it back to myself.

Bill DeShivs
May 5, 2008, 09:18 PM
I don't believe it works that way, but ATF can tell you for sure.
Please let us know the official word on this.

Crosshair
May 5, 2008, 11:14 PM
I don't believe it works that way, but ATF can tell you for sure.
That is EXACTLY how it works. I have hashed over this idea for awhile and have asked my local SOT and a few places that do Class 3 work. If I do it myself, it is $200. If I have them do it and transfer it to me, it's $5. As long as I keep the barrels over 12" on the combination gun, it's an AOW.

Bill DeShivs
May 6, 2008, 01:00 AM
I hope you are correct, but it still sounds like "wishful reading" to me.
I have a 24, and if my "wishful reading" is correct, The stock can be left on the gun, too. I would love to have a 12" barreled model 24!

hknut
May 6, 2008, 03:04 AM
You can buy a 11.5 or a 14.5 for a Benelli, without any gunsmith fees!

Firepower!
May 6, 2008, 04:33 AM
I have, among others, Daewoo USAS 12, which is a select fire shotgun. If you are thinking hardcore stuff thats the shotgun to have. Come with 20 shell drum mag.

VUPDblue
May 6, 2008, 08:15 AM
You can buy a 11.5 or a 14.5 for a Benelli, without any gunsmith fees!

...but you cannot install it without prior BATFE approval...


Also, Crosshair is correct. That rifle, with a shotgun and a rifle barrel, and with the barrels less than 18" but more than 12", puts it into the AOW category. That's by definition, and it has nothing to do with the buttstock. IIRC, somewhere, the ATF website even lists short versions of the Springfield M6 survival rifle as examples of an AOW.

ETA: I just found this from the BATFE website--->
National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 -
The National Firearms Act provides for the registration, and the taxing of the transfer, of a class of
weapons described as NFA Title 2 weapons (sometimes referred to as "Class 3 weapons"). These include
machine guns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, silencers (also known as suppressors) and
also a class of weapons known as "Any Other Weapon" (AOW). An example of an AOW is, but not
limited to, a smooth barreled pistol or a short barreled combination gun.

buzz_knox
May 6, 2008, 10:13 AM
You can buy a 11.5 or a 14.5 for a Benelli, without any gunsmith fees!

Be sure you don't keep it in the same location as an unregistered Benelli, or ATFE will consider you to be in constructive (and illegal) possession of an SBS.

hknut
May 9, 2008, 11:06 PM
I was going on the premise he would have all his ducks in a row already.

PTK
May 10, 2008, 11:36 AM
Take your pick. From the top, a 32" single shot, a 18.5" Remington 11, a 12" 870, a 8" single shot, and a 8" double barrel. :)

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32693&stc=1&d=1210437390

.351winchester
May 11, 2008, 08:38 PM
:) Awesome! Please, more details on the little SxS. And is that a Special Police Model 11 or a cut down?

PTK
May 12, 2008, 11:12 AM
For the Stoeger SxS 12ga, I shortened the fore-end, shortened the barrels, made the stock into a pistol grip, and put a silicone rubber recoil bumper on the rear of the triggerguard. A video of it in action can be seen here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP7QXdW2TO4), though the guy firing it hams up the recoil a bit. :D More than anything, it's a toy.

The Remington 11 was a beat up, cracked stock, dented barrel $150 special I found. I cut the barrel to 18.5", and shortened the stock about an inch past the action spring. It's about what Bonnie and Clyde used, and surprisingly it cycles just fine. While it does cycle fine, it's not fun to shoulder - if done incorrectly, you get a face full of receiver.

The most useful of all my short shotguns is the pump 870. Full stock, five rounds on tap, and you can aim very well. All around useful. :)