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ELMOUSMC
April 30, 2008, 12:09 AM
I went out early this morning,first time it hasn't rained or snowed in 2 weeks.One of my neighbors had a yearling calf drown in the creek that runs down our valley(swept into a flood gate) he had to drag it out for the insurance man to do a neacropscy on it.I set up on some round bales about 70 yds off and was using my Varmint Als El Cheapo call.The steer was already gutted and was get ripe so my scent was covered.It only took about 5 minutes and 2 yote's came at a dead run.I had my Hornet and at about 75 yds I fired at the 1 in the lead I pulled the shot and hit him in the neck(not fatality),Most times the sound of a gun shot puts them in afterburner and their gone these 2 turned right towards me and kept comming My Hornet is a single shot and I hadn't reloaded,I grabbed my Mossberg 20 Ga and a load of #4 buck took out 1 at about 15 yds the other 1 turned and at about 35 yds the Mossberg claimed him.I have hunted and called Song dogs for better than 10 years and have NEVER had anything like that happen before,I was in clear sight and they still came at me.All I can say is thank you Mossberg and Federal. ELMOUSMC

Nekron
April 30, 2008, 10:40 AM
Cool story! Thanks for sharing. Good thing you thought to bring the shotgun along. :)

tacticalmedic
April 30, 2008, 11:24 AM
Make sure you change your underpants. I know I would have to!

Scorch
April 30, 2008, 12:26 PM
Oorah, Guns! Good work! The coyotes there are probably learning that a shot means dinner.

Full-choke
April 30, 2008, 12:27 PM
I'm going to be brave enough to hunt with a single-shot rifle as well, but I have my best friend sitting there next to me with his 8mm Mauser that he so dearly loves.

Good thing for smart thinking and good nerves :eek:

F-C

ZeSpectre
April 30, 2008, 12:29 PM
no plan survives contact with the enemy

ELMOUSMC
April 30, 2008, 01:57 PM
I was talking to 1 of my gray beard friends about the coyote incident and his son was there ,he related this story.last winter during our black powder season he dropped a nice doe,while he was field dressing it 3 song dogs came within 20 yds of him and tried to bluff him off his kill.He said he never felt so helpless in his whole life an empty rifle and no back up(in Iowa it is illegal to carry a 2nd weapon during black powder season).He was able to get the doe loaded on his 4 wheeler and leave,he said he didn't get a 100 ft and they were fighting over the gut pile.Its a whole new day in the Iowa woods:eek:Good hunting and be safe ELMOUSMC

Malexander
April 30, 2008, 03:11 PM
Wow, that's kinda scary. Well done on some good shooting and glad you're okay.

elkman06
April 30, 2008, 07:57 PM
Soooo, what's scary about a coyote? Got me baffled here. They will run away if you stood up.
elkman06

hogdogs
April 30, 2008, 08:19 PM
I am in agreement with elkman... While a yote has the ability to raise my hackles... that is all! They are generally much more timid than a domestic breed. But if they chose to get punchy with me, they would be in a world of hurt.
Brent

Lavid2002
April 30, 2008, 10:01 PM
coyotes have a bite of 1500 PSI? No?

roy reali
April 30, 2008, 10:46 PM
Some years ago I was with my dog along a stretch of river that runs right through a major city. Their are quail is the brushy areas. I was practicing calling them. After ten minutes a coyote popped out of some brush about ten feet in front of us. It looked at me and my dog and quickly disappeared. I guess my quail calling fooled one critter. Shortly after that rumors were circulating about a mountain lion living in that area. I decided to practice my bird calling elsewhere. Fooling a lowly dog is one thing, but a large cat is another.:eek:

rantingredneck
April 30, 2008, 10:54 PM
Soooo, what's scary about a coyote? Got me baffled here. They will run away if you stood up.
elkman06

Reread his post, these two didn't.

2 years ago I shot one with my muzzleloader as I was walking back to my truck from my deer stand. I walked out of the treeline onto the field and the yote was sitting on its haunches about 40 yds away. It did not move, but sat there staring at me. I walked toward it (my truck was in that direction) expecting it to bolt. It did not. I recapped my muzzleloader and shot it.

I was not about to walk past it.

They are getting bolder around here too.

ELMOUSMC
April 30, 2008, 11:07 PM
ELKMAN:Any where in my post did I Say that I was scared,on the contrary I reached for my shot gun and dispatched the threat.If 2 40 lb preditors don't give you a little rush when they turn towards you with their hackles up you are a better man than Iam ELMOUSMC

ELMOUSMC
April 30, 2008, 11:13 PM
ELKMAN as I stated in my post I was in clear view standing up with my back against a round bale they were neither afraid nor did they run maybe Iowa coyote's are a little braver than the 1s where you are at ELMOUSMC:D

roy reali
April 30, 2008, 11:35 PM
http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=anrrec/hrec

jrothWA
April 30, 2008, 11:49 PM
always reload.

Coyotes are more use to humans than we give credit for. That's why you hearing of them in city centers and occasionally taking cats and chiwowow's
(can't spell the little mouse dog) out to dinner. Especially here in the Puget Sound area, and the loco's can't understand why the coyotes do this???

jsteve
May 1, 2008, 07:14 PM
Last year we had a man and his dog attacked by a pack of coyotes while out walking in the woods not far from where I live near Savannah, GA. the mans dog killed one and he shot another before the rest took off.
Here is a ESPN news clip about a coyote attack.

New Jersey coyote shot and killed near where boy was attacked this week

Police shot and killed a coyote yesterday less than a mile from where a 5-year-old boy was attacked this week but cautioned that at least four song dogs were roaming nearby, the Associated Press reports out of Middletown, N.J.

It was not known whether the animal that was killed was the same one that bit Brayden Gazette as he and his sister were playing near their home on Monday.

"It's somewhat of a relief, but I'm still going to be watching out for my kids every minute," said the boy's mother, Joann Gazette. "Who knows how many more are out there? And how can anyone be sure if this is the one who bit my son?"

The animal was killed about three-quarters of a mile from her home, she said.

Police cornered the animal and chased it along a fence of the Earle Naval Weapons Station before shooting it with a .40-caliber handgun, said Township Administrator Robert Czech.

"It was apparently trying to find an access point back into the Navy property," he said.

Police spotted at least four other coyotes before the animal was killed, he said. Traps are still in place to capture other coyotes.

The coyote that was killed was a female that weighed about 35 pounds. The carcass was to be tested for rabies.

Brayden got 46 stitches in the back of the head and two rabies shots after a coyote bit him Monday, according to the AP.

Another boy, 22-month-old Liam Sadler, was grabbed by a coyote while playing near the naval station April 6. The toddler had to undergo rabies shots.

mikejonestkd
May 1, 2008, 09:14 PM
Here in NY they have recently discovered that coyotes here have wolf DNA in them...I guess that explains why the NY/ VT coyotes get up to 60 pounds. One would be enough to send chills up my spine. Two or more would be a real problem....I know of a few smokepole hunters that have had similar encounters after harvesting a deer..

mikenbarb
May 1, 2008, 10:31 PM
Wow, You guys gotta come to N.J. and hunt some dogs. Lots and lots of them here as reintroduced by the state(STUPID!) And noone hunts them serious and all they do is kill deer and turkeys nonstop. Theres a few of us that go and dont know how to hunt them that good and shot 9 during the season over electronic calls and fake gut piles. We only hunted 13 days and nights total and heard alot of them.(lost count) Our deer heard is taking a beating from them and theres gotta be a better way to get em because their almost domesticated and stupid as a rock. The downfall is that we cant use rifles and only 12ga. with t size max. Any suggestions??? Oh, And no legholds either.:mad:

elkman06
May 1, 2008, 10:52 PM
Elmousmc...
Okay,, sorry man. Caught me off guard, your demeanor in the post suggested that you were scared, The subsequent posts triggered affirmation in it.
Anyway, it's hard to picture a coyote being that aggressive and I will admit that it may be different in more suburban settings where the tree huggers and life in general have allowed their populations to swell since hardly anyone hunts them like out here. I would say a solid third or more of the people driving our roads out here are carrying a rifle of sorts and will use it as quickly as possible.. If you want to see something fast, just start stepping on your brakes, coyotes blast off.
Again, notice. I apologized.
elkman06

ELMOUSMC
May 1, 2008, 11:20 PM
ELKMAN: No apology was necessary:) I was just stating that in many years of hunting song Dogs I have never had them react like that to a gunshot or a Human in plain sight and close proximity.As you said in most case's the mere scent of humans sends them into the next county.They had decomposed enough that the state DNR would not do a test for rabies.Their over all appearence was of healthy male animals,they were in the process of shedding their winter coats.no mange and only a few ticks and no noticable injurys other than the Hornet wound and a lot of #4 buck holes.I just hope this was an isolated case and not the norm.This area is mostly rural,but there is a housing development about 3 miles east of here and IMHO They are spending alot of their time in and around that area and have lost their natural fear of humans Good luck and good shooting ELMOUSMC

castnblast
May 2, 2008, 02:30 PM
The scary thing about song dogs with that type of aggression is they may be rabid. That is something to be scared of.

ELMOUSMC
May 2, 2008, 03:37 PM
One of my friends has a landscaping business and has several customers in the upscale housing development East of here.These are large homes and sit on acre or better lots.During the winter he does snow removable and on more than 1 occasion he has seen residents taking food to the woods surrounding the area to "to feed the poor things" that sure clears up a lot of questions I had about the odd behaivor of the 2 song dogs I encountered.ELKMAN you gotta love those tree huggers.Maybe when little fluffy or fido come up missing they relize what they have created but I doubt it! I just hope no little kid turns into a snack I hope what went on in New Jersey dosen't happen here ELMOUSMC

elkman06
May 2, 2008, 04:21 PM
Elmousmc,, Much like the cute and fuzzy bunniiiiis er I mean wolves that the Feds shoved up our cute and fuzzy a@@@es out here in Wyo. The tree huggers are turning inside out that they are now sitting squarely in the crosshairs of a lot of people now that they are off of the endangered species list. LOL
elkman06

mikenbarb
May 2, 2008, 08:17 PM
Whatever happened to the bounty that was placed on yotes and wolves? We never had that where I live but I would love to see N.J. do it. Too many bunny huggers in this state and not enough politicians with brass ones to even try it. Its pretty bad when the tree huggers get our bear season closed down because they say they can sterilize em. Yeaaaaaaah rite! Just like they say that the coyotes here are good for nature but you never see them people out in the woods(only in malls) because something might eat them. LOL
Our biggest problem is that someone is gonna have to get killed or mauled bad before they do something about it. And believe me, We have had alot of yote and bear attacks here but they keep alot of them quiet and give the people bear proof garbage cans so it dont happen again. ROFL, This state is crazy.:D Reality is that we have an average of 9 bears per sq. mile in Sussex county and the coyotes are way beyond that. Time to start a bounty program here.

ELMOUSMC
May 3, 2008, 12:00 AM
With the population consentration of New Jersey and the # of Bears and coyotes present it is only a matter of time until a tragedy occures.If you go to WWW.Varmintals.com he has a whole page of coyote attacks on humans.When the Tree huggers and the Bunnie lovers hold sway over the DNR in any state you can bet that the natural order is going to go to sh*t.Look at what Elkman said the Feds intro duced the wolf into an area that is famous for live stock production.I was armed and went with the intension of hunting song dogs but had I been a bird watcher or a flower picker it could have had a very different ending.ELMOUSMC

mikenbarb
May 3, 2008, 08:51 AM
ELMOUSMC, Its not the fish and game division, Its Governor Corzine that shut it down because some stupid lady started a bear rights group and enlisted all the PITA and Animal rights people and protested for weeks. We also had a pro bearhunt protest but it fell on deaf ears. The matter has been in court with SCI and NRA attorneys backing us up for 5 years now and the stupid judges are saying there isnt enough research for a bear hunt.(Judge bunny hugger) We had an incident last week where a lady came home from food shopping and was met by a 200# black bear in her kitchen that climbed in a window:eek:. There have been an average of 300 bear and coyote human incidents and 97 bear and yote livestock kills(Including Cows and Llamas) for the last 2 years and its getting higher every year. The Fish and Game division is fighting it along with the sportsman and it seems like its gonna be an endless battle till someone or someones kid gets killed. They have also trapped 2- 650-700# black bears. When they are that big its a real problem to stop them. Its time to get a sportsman in the Governors office and not a tree hugger.:D< Running for Governor. lol

ELMOUSMC
May 3, 2008, 10:56 AM
Mike I wish that were the case here,Our DNR is in the pocket of the ASPCA and PETA along with our Governor.Iowa(at least this part) is over run with Deer and Turkeys so like wise the" Yote "population is increasing.The DNR has limited the # of in state permits(Turkey and Deer) to make more available to out of state hunters.It sounds like NJ and WY along with Iowa and how many others are bearing the brunt of gross mismanagement by our state government and some where along the line there is going to be a really tragic result ELMOUSMC

Silver Bullet
May 3, 2008, 11:11 AM
Our DNR is in the pocket of the ASPCA and PETA

Is this true about the ASPCA ? Do they have an anti-hunting agenda ?

I know HSUS does. I love to send their contribution solicitation prepaid envelopes back to them with NRA literature. I haven't been able to find evidence that the ASPCA is on the socialist bandwagon, though.

roy reali
May 3, 2008, 11:33 AM
http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=pp_wild_hunting

DMacLeod
May 3, 2008, 11:33 AM
I live in MA and coyote encounters are increaseing here as well. Quite a few pets go missing. A lot of the liberals are of the thought "oh he (or she) just ran away....". They refuse to admit [I]FLUFFY[I] may have been a yotes lunch.

My wife and I had an encounter with a couple a few years back while takeing the dog for a walk out on the conservation land. We were walking along the trail when I spotted a coyote. Ralphie (our english setter at the time) spotted the coyote at the same time and took off after it. Must have thought it was another dog wanting to play and took chase. They both went up and over a small hill when I noticed another coyote trying to sneak around the back. I let a round of 45 fly but missed.

Ralphie was right back at our side upon hearing the report, thinking it was time to go hunting. The coyotes weren't anywhere to be found after the shot. Makes me wonder if the coyotes were working as a team and trying to ambush the dog.

Coyotes are becomeing too comfortable around people, but don't like the sound of gunfire. If up in Maine deer hunting I have sent a few their maker and never batted an eye. Would do it again as well.

thallub
May 3, 2008, 11:41 AM
On two occasions I have had coyotes continue to come in after one was killed. One persistent coyote approached within 10 yards after two of his buds were killed with my .22 K-Hornet: Made it three for three.

roy reali
May 3, 2008, 11:44 AM
A few years ago I was reading an article comparing mountain lions in Oregon to the ones in California. I don't remember where I saw it or who wrote it. But the author had an interesting theory about wild cat behavior in those two states.

Oregon has cougar hunting and California doesn't. In Oregon, if a mountain lion is born with a genetic predisposition to be bolder towards humans it doesn't live long. Those are the cats are most likely taken out of the gene pool by hunters. The opposite is happening in Oregon's southern neighbor.

In California, being human bold is an advantage. More food is available around human settlement. Therefore these cats are reproducing more and passing this gene along.

This was a theory to help explain why the cats in California are bolder then the ones in Oregon. I wonder if this can be applied to coyotes.

Scorch
May 3, 2008, 12:32 PM
Makes me wonder if the coyotes were working as a team and trying to ambush the dog.A friend of mine in NV lost a good Brittany to coyotes that were teaming up. My Brittany got away from a couple of coyotes just last year with only minor injury. I watched coyotes course deer in NV, when one would get tired, another would take over, chasing the deer in a circle until it came back by the first one, then they would switch off again. They are an extremely intelligent animal!

roy reali
May 3, 2008, 03:13 PM
I was watching one of those nature shows. It was about the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone. Prior to the wolves, the coyotes had formed packs. With wolves around they have become solitary scavengers again.

The wolves hate the coyotes, they attack them every chance they get. Apprently this has caused a change in the coyote behavior.

One more thing. I have seen some good-sized coyotes around here. But on that show they showed a couple of wolves taking one down. The wolves made the coyotes look like lap dogs in size comparison.

ELMOUSMC
May 3, 2008, 04:58 PM
Roy: I agree with that premise if a bitch coyote has her litter in close proximity to humans it would stand to reason that the young would over time lose their fear of humans,and would in turn pass that trait on to their young. I have tried over the past couple of years to gain access to a few of the up scale housing developments in this area and have been told time and again that there are covenates in their deeds that don't allow firearms to be used for ANY! reason(protection of life and property?)I will continue to hunt the perimiters of these ares as it is apperent that where most of the song dogs go for lunch ELMOUSMC

elkman06
May 3, 2008, 09:56 PM
Coyotes can and do work in tandem(or more) to flank and attack prey. A friend of mine had several attempting to kill his dog one night last summer while he was camping. It is definitely NOT unusual to see them traveling in pairs.
I would hesitate to call any of their traits, trends as being genetic though. It is primarily learned behavior. Just as I described out here that rapid decelleration of a pickup means bullets to our local yotes.
Just like the yuppy joggers that occasionally get nabbed by cats in Colorado, the cats have learned that fifi the poodle and small humans represent lunch. With noone hunting them and thusly teaching them that humans represent death, they can and will add them to the lunch menu. Sorry to pick on Colorado, I truly think the western slope is cool, Denver and vicinity,,,Colofornia...
elkman06

roy reali
May 4, 2008, 12:12 AM
http://www.wkrg.com/news/article/when_coyotes_attack/13482/

Nortonics
May 4, 2008, 07:00 AM
Damn - never knew...

My family ownes a Summer home in NE Wisconsin and last year was the first time I'd ever seen a Coyote up there - dead along side of the road, hit by a car. It amused me for several reasons:

- Coyote, up here? Never knew...
- Damn it looks cool - neat coloring and sleek yet powerful. Looks damn near like a slightly woolly domestic dog, maybe like a medium size Husky but different colors?
- Considerably smaller than a Wolf.
- Wonder if I might ever see one alive, in the wild, and what their habits might be like?

The earlier post woke me up:

Check This Out
http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/vi...xt=anrrec/hrec

Damn, read some of those accounts! And that list ends at 2003! An amusing listing:

Jan. 1997 - San Juan Capistrano - Coyote charged adult female and took purse.

Heh - I wonder if they got a pic of him trying to use her card at the ATM?

Gotta' love this one:

Nov. 1998 - San Mateo County - Coyote approached group of 4 women hikers and bit woman on buttocks.

She musta' been the good looking one...

Man, them's is some frisky Coyotes out in Kalifornia!

Silver Bullet
May 4, 2008, 12:07 PM
roy, thanks for the ASPCA post. That's the first evidence I've seen of their anti-hunting agenda.

Mainah
May 4, 2008, 04:38 PM
We're talking about coyotes here, and in Maine we wouldn't have 70 pound coyotes if we still had cougars and wolves. I can accept that coyotes attack people on occasion, so what? Do we really want to turn our wilderness into an environment that doesn't include the occasional threat?

ELMOUSMC
May 4, 2008, 06:30 PM
Mainah we were not suggesting that all Bears and all cougars and all coyotes be eliminated,What is being said is that a lot of wrong headed thinking has taken place and animals that normally have a fear of man now view us as lunch. ELMOUSMC

BIGR
May 4, 2008, 06:44 PM
Case in point if using a single shot reload fast or have a back up like you did. Sounds like things got kinda exciting for a few seconds.

elkman06
May 4, 2008, 10:35 PM
Wow, 70lb coyotes? I'd like to see someone run the DNA on one of those.
elkman06

Art Eatman
May 5, 2008, 04:53 PM
Years ago, a magazine article--with pictures--told of a pair of coyotes who used an antelope's circle-track running to wear it down for the kill. Not only taking turns, but cutting across the circle to continually have a shorter distance to run.

And they definitely will play games with dogs. A female coyote in heat will entice a house-dog out where the other coyotes can slash it to ribbons.

243Ben
May 7, 2008, 04:27 PM
Coyotes are becoming a worse problem every year. I live in the suburbs of Kansas City (Kansas side - not in Misery) and there are more and more stories of coyotes attacking people's dogs here. I'm just about to take up sitting outside with my 22 and some subsonic rounds to rid my area of them.
Iowa is getting bad for yotes as well - my uncle has a farm up in the northeast corner of the state and he's lost a couple of goats and pigs to the things.

I think they need to loosen up some hunting restrictions on rabbits, deer, and other food sources so we can bring down coyote populations.

Maximus856
May 7, 2008, 04:39 PM
From wikipedia

There were about 52 recorded deaths due to black bears between 1900 and 2003


Even if it's off by 100%, it's still not enough for me to think a bounty is justified.

As far as coyotes not being afraid of us, a few hundred year's ago we were afraid of them. I'm curious as to what the human reproduction rate is vs. coyote reproduction...I'm all for hunting, but sometimes I think people play the blame game a bit to much, even in the subject of wildlife.


Just my opinion however, so take it as you want.

-Max.

DMary
May 8, 2008, 12:40 AM
I live in Huntington Beach, CA. and coyotes are becoming a problem here too. I didn't even know coyotes lived anywhere near me until about 3 weeks ago when I was outside with my dog (and he's not a little dog) and one came within 2 feet of us. The thing growled at us and looked at my dog like he was din din. Animal Control won't do anything and I asked about shooting it if it came back, and I felt threatened by it. She said they would charge me with animal abuse if I did anything to hurt the coyote. I asked how should I protect myself if I can't hurt the coyote, and she put me on hold for 5 minutes, and then came back and said I should buy some citronella spray; and I could only use the spray if it was about to attack me other than that I would be arrested.

What kind of sense does that make?

rburch
May 8, 2008, 01:54 AM
Not sure where in California, but my unclewho lives out there was telling about a story on the news where one grabbed a 6 month old baby out of a stroller when his/her mother was taking a walk.

There is such a thing as balance in nature, and it's way past the time that we stopped trying to control it or change it to fit our idea of what it should be, and took our place in it.

There's a reason humans have canine teeth.;)

Dusty Rivers
May 12, 2008, 08:56 AM
Here is the link to an AP story today on aggressive coyotes. I have spotted coyotes in the day 5 times over the last month and fired shots at them all five times. They never used to be seen during the day. Not DOGS, coyotes. If you can't tell the difference you shouldn't have a gun.:rolleyes:


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/COYOTE_ATTACKS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

mikenbarb
May 13, 2008, 10:05 PM
Dusty Rivers, Everyone has a slang saying for one thing or another. And here in N.J. we call them a number of things including dogs. Because we have whats called coy-dogs also. Its a mutt mixed with coyote and one of the smelliest,nastiest mangled things you will ever see. And alot of them do look like dogs more than yotes. So speaking you could call them dogs and not coyotes. Its not the neighbors Fido or Fluffy and we do know what a coy-dog and a coyote look like and coy-dogs look more like a dog than a Coyote. So whats your point,? That we shouldnt have a gun because we call them dogs when they mostly are?? :mad:Check out the history of the Coyotes and Coy-dogs in N.J. and you will see where these stinky nasty things came from. You might be amazed. Yes we do have pure bred coyotes no thanks to the state but alot are coy-dogs that were tring to get rid of.
And Dmary, Get the gun and shoot that thing! Citronella spray is only gonna tick it off. Tell Bunny hugger animal controll to check the laws. If your life is at threat then you have a rite to get rid of the threat. I will take my chances in court for self defense over getting attacked by a coyote any day.