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bushidomosquito
April 29, 2008, 12:55 PM
I brought this up in a road rage thread and thought it would fit tactics pretty well. What do you all think of the CCW badge? I've heard some negative comments about them only being carried by wanna be cops but they seem like a good idea in a lot of situations. Seems to me that if the first order of buisness is to try to diffuse when confronted with a person who is angry and threatening but has not crossed the line that justifies drawing on them or brandishing, then being able to flash a badge (which everyone known is always backed up by a gun) would be just the thing. The words are very small on those things and most people would assume that they have just unwisely decided to get confrontational with some sort of LEO. Their assumption does not constitute impersonating an officer. There is no implied threat to get you into legal issues but it makes it very clear that you have the means to defend yourself. It's basically just a universal sign that says "Don't F- with me" and is completly legal to carry with a CCW permit. It would help if you looked the part, which I'm sure many of us do, but I believe that most people would see that shield and quickly decide to go bother someone else or better yet rethink what could happen to them if they continue to go around messing with people. Hey, a nice suit, pair of sunglasses and a few cell antennas on your unmarked Crown Vic couldn't hurt either. :)

CyberSEAL
April 29, 2008, 01:07 PM
Seems like a grey area in terms of the impersonation charges...you leave the responding officers some leeway to charge you with that...I'd think.

Mannlicher
April 29, 2008, 01:15 PM
CCW badges are great accessories for mall ninjas. Those folks need to grow up a bit, and may be too immature to even be allowed to carry a gun.

Most everyone else steers clear of them. :)

Musketeer
April 29, 2008, 01:15 PM
The first impression the responding LEOs are going to have is you are a wanna be... with a gun.

Don't do it.

bushidomosquito
April 29, 2008, 01:17 PM
jerk shuts his mouth and walks away feeling lucky and stupid and you go about your buisness so where does the responding officer come in? You can't be charged with inpersonating an officer if you never say you're an officer. The badge clearly says "Concealed Weapons Permit Holder" and that's all you claim to be when you show it.

Creature
April 29, 2008, 01:22 PM
CCW Badges are generally considered a bad idea...and I completely agree with that concensus. Besides, it has already been discussed at length:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235666&highlight=CCW+Badge

(see post #13)

Crow61
April 29, 2008, 01:31 PM
I don't like the idea for many, many reasons. One of them being the additional cost put on us. We already have to pay for the permit to a right that all free men should have.

DonR101395
April 29, 2008, 01:31 PM
jerk shuts his mouth and walks away feeling lucky

Or jerk decides he isn't going back to prison for parole violations after this "cop" searches him and finds the meth in his pocket and decides he's going to kill the guy with the badge.

Musketeer
April 29, 2008, 01:45 PM
The badge clearly says "Concealed Weapons Permit Holder" and that's all you claim to be when you show it.

Equivocating. The cops will see it for what it was, impersonation without explicitly doing so. The DA will see it the same. If you are unlucky the jury may do so as well.

Given this has been shot down over and over is there any reason to expect a different answer this time?

tplumeri
April 29, 2008, 01:54 PM
Pretty soon you'd be able to buy fake badges on ebay, and every jerk would have one.
would be like the guy that tells you "I know Karate".
he gets beat up just for being stupid. If he really was trained he wouldnt tell you.
JMHO
tom

mikejonestkd
April 29, 2008, 01:59 PM
It is WAY beyond a bad idea. It opens you up to so many possible legal repercussions. It is just like tplumeri mentioned about knowing karate.

As mentioned above, this horse has already been beat to death in the linked thread by Creature.

chris in va
April 29, 2008, 02:00 PM
Pretty funny stuff if you ask me. Can't believe someone actually thought this was a good idea.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5217/heavybadgejc7.jpg

Keltyke
April 29, 2008, 02:10 PM
You're walking a real fine line with that "impersonation" thing. I'd hate to be tried for that in court. A good DA would eat that case for breakfast and you'd be looking at time.

It's always been an argument whether or not to proclaim "I'm packing". True, it may stop the perp from continuing whatever he had planned, but it might also get you targeted first in line. We're NOT rained LEOs, and most of us will not react in the same way a LEO would. Do you really want some hinky crackhead to know you're the man standing in his way? I'd rather it come as a complete surprise to him. That way, I may get the drop on him and get the first shot off. Also, some innocent bystander may look to you for help you're not equipped or able to provide. LEOs carry a 15+ round gun, a couple of spare mags, mace or pepper spray, a TASER, maybe a baton, and a radio. They've spent countless hours of training on how to use all of them. You got a 5 shot snubbie and you went through one 8 hour course with maybe 30 minutes on the range with a paper target. That CCW badge doesn't make you ten feet tall and covered with hair. As a last thought, it's much too easy to abuse that "CCW" badge, especially if (as mentioned) you drive a Crown Vic.

We've all been instructed that the only time we're allowed to draw our weapon is if we're justified in using deadly force in protection of ourselves or others. Why pull a badge when you need to pull a gun? We've all been taught to NOT fire warning shots. The same thought could be applied to the "warning" given by flashing a badge. It's a waste of time you may not have.

After all, the whole point of CCW is concealment. If you want everyone to know you're packing, move to NC, open carry is legal there.

CPTMurdoc30
April 29, 2008, 02:30 PM
I would not do it unless you look like these guys.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l134/cpttango30/top_2.jpg

Musketeer
April 29, 2008, 02:40 PM
Best Worst Shooting Hype Advertisement EVER!!!

I hear even a near miss will cause criminals to explode.

bushidomosquito
April 29, 2008, 02:50 PM
It looks to me like another case of not the object itself being a bad idea but the way some would use it. I'm not talking about a lot of things here. I'm not talking about wearing it in a visible location to "announce" that you're carring. I'm not talking about being a mall ninja wanna be cop and having it just to feel cool. Mall ninjas like ARs too and that doesn't make us steer clear of them. I'm not talking about stupid cops wanting to send you up the river for having a perfectly legal item and using it responsibly. Lots of cops will treat you like dirt for having the nerve to carry a gun legally because they believe that is their priveledge alone. They are wrong and the "what if" scenerios concerning what some cop might think if you exercise certian rights are lame. Do we have any LEO's that would like to chime in on this? Would you arrest someone for presenting a CCW badge to someone who was fast approaching justifing their own shooting if it resulted in no one getting hurt? Can anyone cite a case where someone was arrested for anything CCW badge related? Frankly the DA and juries out to get you hysteria leaves me a little non-plussed as well. When the problem comes to a halt with no shots fired and no one hurt then no court or police issues apply and if they did then that's why they have good lawyers. The point that I was (clearly) making was that the badge leaves no doubt that you have a gun without having to pull the gun. I can envision endless situations where this would come in handy. For those that fear the inprobable perp looking at his third strike deciding to take you out you could show the badge and say, "Walk away, just walk away." Anyone fearing prison would take that offer as opposed to a shootout or arrest. Fear of the highly unlikely problem solved.

How many people are attacked while open carrying? Would it be safe to say none? When they know that you have a gun they leave you alone. The purpose of pulling out the CCW badge (as I mentioned) is to convey that message before things get out of hand and without pulling the gun before it's warranted. What's wrong with that?

BTW I read the previous dissusions on this topic and they were the most closed minded, knee jerk responses I have ever seen. It looks like these things are just considered a bad idea for no real reason, just because everybody says so.

Murdoch
April 29, 2008, 02:52 PM
I like the tactical earmuffs. :D

Apparently they also give of an electrical current upon impacting the bad guy. and of course, you get the free cool "agent" outfit with enough proof's of purchase ;)

model70fan
April 29, 2008, 02:58 PM
CCW badge just seems to me like a target, "Here! Shoot me first, I'm the one that can shoot back!" CCW=CONCEALED weapon, why give yourself away? Especially because when you are wasting time pulling a badge, the BG is taking advantage of time by pulling gun:(... Bad news IMO

ISC
April 29, 2008, 03:00 PM
"...carried by wanna be cops "

yep. instant loss of credibility

Nekron
April 29, 2008, 03:09 PM
CCW Badge = One of the worst ideas ever conceived. :barf:

BerettaFox
April 29, 2008, 03:25 PM
it sounds like badge makers idea to make some money.

longcoldwinter
April 29, 2008, 03:37 PM
You know when 90% of the responance tell you its a bad idea, it probably is.

SilentHitz
April 29, 2008, 03:39 PM
why give yourself away? My thoughts exactly, I don't want to advertise the fact I carry. "Concealed" and that badge don't even belong in the same sentence...damn, I just did it. :p;)

Capt Charlie
April 29, 2008, 03:46 PM
Methinks Bushido had no idea that bringing this up was akin to poking a stick into a very big hornet's nest :D.

However...

You know when 90% of the responance tell you its a bad idea, it probably is.

Especially when that 90% covers 139 posts from 5 different threads ;).

As someone else said, this one's been beat to death, so let's give it a decent burial. Say goodnight, Gracie.

Closed.