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View Full Version : MIM on a Smith&Wesson Revolver = A better trigger no stoning needed.


Master Blaster
April 25, 2008, 03:26 PM
The title sums up my experience with S&W revolvers and the "New" now 10 year old MIM parts.

I have numerous smith revolvers some with action jobs some without. My oldest is a 1946 M&P newest is a 627 PC made three months ago which has tool steel parts it had a rough trigger and needed stoning on the hammer rebound slide hammer block sides machining marks were apparent.

The Guns with MIM parts have much smoother triggers than the older guns. The parts need no stoning have no machine marks and are slick as glass.
I have fired many tens of thousands of rounds in the MIM guns with no breakage. My oldest is a 4" 686 which was bought as a salesmans sample, which means it was a range rental at Target Master for 6 months and 10,000 rounds of full power remington 125 grainers they sell there. I have put another 20,000 rounds through it since I bought it in 1998, though mostly target stuff. It has the smoothest trigger and still times perfectly.

Smith seems to have done well with the MIM internal parts in their revolvers.

What do you all think?

James K
April 25, 2008, 03:35 PM
I agree; I think MIM is actually progress in both lower cost and better precision and durability. Needless to say, a lot of people don't agree and they tend to be, one might say, a little bit vehement about it.

Let me know your address and we will keep in touch after you are run out of the country by the anti-Smith, anti-MIM gang with lynch ropes and pitchforks.

Jim

lomaxanderson
April 25, 2008, 03:36 PM
+1 well said:)

RickB
April 25, 2008, 05:30 PM
The MIM trigger on my Thunder Ranch 22 cracked after fewer than 500 rounds. Smith replaced it, of course, at no charge, of course. While it was back there on their dime, I had the Master Action Job done on it, and while it still won't crack Winchester primers, it's a joy to shoot.

Gib
April 25, 2008, 05:47 PM
RickB- Brownell's sells a longer firing pin for your Smith. It might do the trick.

Gib

Powder_Burn
April 25, 2008, 06:02 PM
I think MIM appropriateness depends on the part and it's application. After lots of shooting, I never worry about MIM S&W parts breaking in my revolver anymore. However, I would not consider MIM in a 1911 after a bad experience w/a Kimber. I think the key differences are a) quality control and b) using the MIM process to produce parts designed to be made that way (vs a copy of a machined part).

CraigC
April 25, 2008, 06:29 PM
I'd keep my mouth shut about the MIM parts if they didn't have the infernal lock or if it had at least resulted in lower costs. Neither is true so I ain't buyin'.

DMMikey
April 26, 2008, 02:16 AM
MIM lower prices? Did you check what handgun prices would be when inflation is factored? I think modern CNC machining that gives parts accurate to a couple of ten thousandths of an inch, and MIM, are the only things keeping handguns, and especially revolvers, with their large number of previously hand fitted parts, even reasonably affordable.
There is a reason Colt is in trouble. They haven't had the cash, or have chosen not to invest it, in modern design and manufacture.
Smith and Wesson just spent a huge amount of money in new production machinery. I think without it, a 442 or 642 in particular, would not be the low price they are today.

radom
April 26, 2008, 03:33 AM
Smith claims that it costs more to make the MIM hammers and triggers vs the stamp cut plate stock they used to use but the not needing to be hand fitted idea was the main cost as it took much more labor. Once the MIM stuff breaks in you cant tell the differance from a older gun with a trigger job. One plus is they also dont come with the sharp ribs in the triggers that eat hide up in DA fire too.

629 shooter
April 26, 2008, 07:16 AM
The Guns with MIM parts have much smoother triggers than the older guns.

I bought my 629 Classic new in 2000 and at the time did not even realize the trigger/hammer were MIM. Compared to all the rest of the Smiths I have owned I will have to agree about the smoothness. Some of my older Smiths have this "gritty" feel in the cocking action while the 629 is as smooth as I have ever felt in a mass produced revolver. I am not a veteran of Smith's "glory years" and have only been shooting them for about 20 years now. A lot of the long time Smith owners will probably say the opposite is true.

Socrates
April 26, 2008, 09:00 AM
hmmmm. You tried the trigger in a 340 or 360 lately?

When one of the top 5 gunsmiths in the world tells me that's as good as my triggers going to get, at 10 pounds, you think that gives me warm and fuzzies?
:barf:
Here, let me fix that for you:

MIM on a Smith&Wesson Revolver =no stoning possible=more profit for S&@

18DAI
April 26, 2008, 03:53 PM
Hehe :) Socrates, I think this was supposed to be a MIM/S&W love fest thread.

Why did you point out the unpleasant truth? LOL Regards 18DAI.

cortez kid
April 26, 2008, 05:17 PM
There's a difference between "smoothness" and trigger pull "weight". My 60-14 with MIM parts has a very smooth trigger pull. It also has a very heavy weight to the pull. It's part of the nature of that model. I could put in lighter springs, but I got used to the pull and don't want to jepardize the reliability since it's my carry piece.
kid

Socrates
April 26, 2008, 11:18 PM
I've had two smiths. Sold the 63 because it was such a mess it wasn't worth the rebarreling, new cylinder, new cylinder throats, and, taking the play out of the cylinder to be worth doing.

The 360 I only keep because it's the best pocket gun made, if not the worst value pocket gun, at the same time. It has by far the worst trigger of any firearm I own. To put it simply, the parts suck, the design sucks, the price is absurd, and the trigger parts and the ability to tune them REALLY suck.

What it has going for it is weight, period. Advertizing it as a 357 is pretty much false advertizing, since most 357 loads are unshootable, and, bullet pull can and will lock the gun up with full house loads.

Oh, I forgot the 'autolock' that went on after 150 rounds, and, about 3000 dry fires on snap caps. I used to think
Colt had the market on over-priced, inaccurate guns. However, S&@ has caught up, and surpassed them.

20nickels
April 27, 2008, 12:25 AM
I've put a stone to two MIM guns and it is no different than smoothing up the older actions. I'm not sure about these claims of them being perfect right out of the box though. I replaced a hammer in one due to unrelated issues and it was rough as a cob til' I found time to stone it. In fact they are a much better trigger than my well worn Model 10-7.

MountainBear
April 27, 2008, 05:15 AM
I am blessed with the ability and knowledge to be able to stone my parts and get a DA pull that is excellent. I prefer both the look (color case hardened) and the finish (no molding lines/seams) of the pre-MIM parts. But I wouldn't let MIM parts keep me from buying a S&W I wanted.
Now the damn lock, thats a story for another thread...

bbrian
April 27, 2008, 10:57 AM
What does MIM stand for?

Thanks

DonR101395
April 27, 2008, 10:59 AM
What does MIM stand for?


metal injection molding

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_injection_molding

Master Blaster
April 27, 2008, 11:34 AM
The 360 I only keep because it's the best pocket gun made, if not the worst value pocket gun, at the same time. It has by far the worst trigger of any firearm I own. To put it simply, the parts suck, the design sucks, the price is absurd, and the trigger parts and the ability to tune them REALLY suck.

What it has going for it is weight, period. Advertizing it as a 357 is pretty much false advertizing, since most 357 loads are unshootable, and, bullet pull can and will lock the gun up with full house loads.

Oh, I forgot the 'autolock' that went on after 150 rounds, and, about 3000 dry fires on snap caps. I used to think
Colt had the market on over-priced, inaccurate guns. However, S&@ has caught up, and surpassed them.


You're right its a total piece of crap, take it out of your pocket and get your self a ruger sp 101, then you can enjoy the light weight, and light smooth trigger pull that all sp101's come with from the factory, and you can shoot 180 grain buffalo bore .357s out of it all day. :)

Socrates
April 28, 2008, 08:25 PM
You've got me thinking about it. The SP 101 is about twice the weight, and, that has a huge impact on lowering recoil. It's also possible to fire real 357 out of it.

But, this sort of made me give serious thought to what am I going to carry, and how.

Conclusion: Pocket carry, though all is said above, the 360 is unbeatable, even as a 38. You just can't find a 12 oz gun that fires 38, and fits in your pocket like this one.

Seecamp and Rohrburg are also VERY expensive, and while smaller, I don't have any numbers on if they actually move 9mm at 9mm speeds. The Glock 26, or 39, same size, are the same barrel length, or longer, then the Ruger, and, develop excellent ballistics.

Finally, if I'm going to double the weight of the gun, I'm going to either 45 ACP, in something like a CCO, or Glock 30, or, the Gap, Glock 39, which is about the smallest, lightest package I can find that shoots 45.

The bottom line is, for me, the concept of 357 out of a compact gun, is a non-starter. 357 is very loud, really needs a 3" barrel to get good velocity. I've always, from the first day I fired both, liked the 45. Plus, I've got a few other ideas for a bigger gun. How about a CCO sized gun, firing 265 grain .475 Huntington Short, at 1100 fps?

Looks like it's doable.....

CraigC
April 28, 2008, 11:00 PM
Everything about the way the new Smiths are produced screams cheap but the prices have continued to rise, long before the Chinese started buying everything. From the injection molded parts (say that without gagging!) to the lettering and two piece barrels. It's that hand fitting that made Smiths worth spending more on than a comparable Ruger. Now they're no better but still cost more, no longer a good value. No thanks, I'll keep buying older models.

Socrates
April 29, 2008, 08:42 AM
Everything about the way the new Smiths are produced screams cheap but the prices have continued to rise, long before the Chinese started buying everything. From the injection molded parts (say that without gagging!) to the lettering and two piece barrels. It's that hand fitting that made Smiths worth spending more on than a comparable Ruger. Now they're no better but still cost more, no longer a good value. No thanks, I'll keep buying older models.

Plus one. I wanted to get the barrel on my 360PD made of steel, and 3" long, but, apparently you can't do that with the S&@'s without certain parts Smith won't sell? Anyone have more on this?

IronBalls
May 2, 2008, 12:31 PM
I ground down a bit on my MIM hammer, going for bobbed... and found a nice fat air bubble in the center.