whats up with all the fuds??

[predator86]

i want to know what the hell is up with all the people here that look down on "tacticool". its not like they are modifying your weapon so why do you have a beef with what people want to do with their stuff????



here is a hint that makes us firearms owners look better, if you dont like it then you dont have to post a reply now do ya??? just shutup with the negative comments!!!! when gun owners get on other gun owners cases about the stuff they have on their gun it just makes the anti-gun crowds job alot easier.....divided we stand, divided (and easier) we fall.......

[The Tourist]

I think what you're running into is simply a case of "been there, done that, invented half of it." It's a common occurance at my age.

And it comes from failure.

For example, in my little burg we are seeing more and more ricer cars. The kids have limited incomes and stick all of their money into engine improvements. With my money I enhance steering and suspension on my bikes as much as I improve the motor. There's a reason.

As a younger man I built a big motor, and then tried to stop the bike with a stock single-leading shoe front brake. Burned up both the front and rear brakes one afternoon trying to get the thing stopped--with a young girl on the back. I could have killed us both.

Flash forward thirty years. I'm waiting at a light when a ricer car turns left in front of me so fast that the right front wheel rim almost dug into the tarmac. The car had four young teenagers in it, all of them laughing--none of them realizing they came withing an inch of flipping the car, resulting in serious injuries.

I knew it because I had failed.

I'm sure it all sounds like preaching. Trust me, I know the sound of that tone from my Dad. Most times it's just a word of caution because we have a history of seeing misfortune.

I don't buy "tacticool" stuff. I don't even care much anymore if my stuff matches in color, at all. I do know that the first 300 dollars I spent updating my AR went into a Shilen barrel that you might not even see. I also bought a better trigger and a free-floating hand-guard. All of these things are quite boring.

I hope this explains some of the opinions you have been hearing. Be comforted by the fact that it's not a condemnation of your decisions, it's simply a recognition of events.

[Rigby1962]

I am not one who prescribes to the doctrine that we shouldn’t say anything negative about firearms for fear of giving the antis something to use. In this case I think it actually works in reverse to have other gun owners make fun of the monstrosities works against the antis. Posting pictures of these things if anything gives them fodder. I’m with Tourist in analogy of cars, these things are all show and no go.

[predator86]

i have broken my left wrist twice, when carrying a 8-9 pound gun all day it cause a large amount of pain in my wrist, so are you saying my pistol gripped shotgun is a failure?? no it is not, i can carry that thing all day and my wrist doesnt hurt....so that means it is a success in my book......


hey tourist, you taught yourself through expirience didnt you? how about you let other people learn themselves, if you teach somebody everything then you aren't giving natural selection a chance to work its course......yes the car analogy works great, thats why my ranger and explorer have 4 wheel discs, crossover steering, urathane bushings all the way around and the ranger is getting a turbo soon.....btw im 22, it doesnt take a lifetime to learn...

[RsqVet]

Folks look down on the tacticool crud for several reasons...

1. The notion that one MUST have x, y, or z to defend one's self, home or property. When you factor in the fact that you don't need 80% of what some folks are reccomending someone has to express that fact otherwise folks who come here looking for advise leave thinking that they musk go drop several more 100's of dollars or else risk their life. Frequently this money gets one little more than more weight on their gun and would have been better spent on training and ammo at some place like gunsight, thunder ranch or whatever.

2. Much of the worst of the tacticool stuff is poor quality, or is an execution / assemblage of quality parts into a poorly concived / executed assemblage. Look at the quality of some of the stuff people are buying.... there is a word that seperates quality stuff like sure fire from the generic fit junk of tapco and others. When you see some assemblage of mutiple tapco accessories, or an AR that has EVERY possible bolt on added to it what are we supposed to say? Great 11 pound rifle ya have there?

3. Are we supposed to walk around defending the notion that there is practical use for 99.9% of the population to have a breaching stand off on their shotgun? Do I support your right to have one, heck yes, do I see a need for one or would I own one... no. I will stand by your right to own one but don't try and convince me that you need it, if you did you would work for an agency that would have already bought you 2.

4. Frankly tactical, and acessories has in some circles replaced skill at arms. I honestly always have to laugh when I see folks who are well into 4 digits on weapons yet can not use them

5. Lastly most folks who own weapons for self defense make that decesion based on rationality, not based one how a gun looks, the need to acessorize or what they saw in some movie or video game. When tacticool gets presented in this light what do you expect folks to say?

[predator86]

in my opinion most people go too far on tactical, as in they should have stopped at the front pistol grip, light and tube extension.......maybe an elastic thingy that holds 5 shells on the buttstock but in my opinion thats about all you need......and the tube extension is just for fun at the range anyways:D

[FL-Flinter]

Predator, You're thinking along my lines as well.... too much is often the problem and I related in the other post, the more crap you put on a gun, the more crap there is to lug around and the more crap there is to get hung-up on stuff. Also from the other post, I called the vendor this morning that was next me at the gunshow, it was an H-K Fabarm and with everything on it and with a full load of 2.75" OOB ammo it tips the scale at 27.4 pounds! Just my opinion but if I'm grabbing a 28# gun, it dang well better be belt-fed and not have a bunch of junk to get in the way.

I don't look down on tacticool guns, I do agree with RsqVet in that alot of the attachments and/or work done to them is/are not of the quality one would consider acceptable or reliable. Just because there isn't much of it that impresses me doesn't mean that it doesn't make someone else happy and that's what it's all about. You have the option to buy what makes you happy and you need to please yourself and not worry about what someone else thinks. If you ask my opinion, I'll gladly give it based on the quality of the product and it's usefulness or lack thereof based on my experience but remember, it's my "opinion" not an "order".

As I said before, personally, I am happy to see the wide selection of tacticool, tactical and sporting equipment and options out there, it's a constant spur to the entire industry and they provide not only options but also inspiration....the true American thing! :D

BTW, how boring would it be if you went to the gunshow and 300 vendors all had the same exact limited selection to choose from?

[The Tourist]

hey tourist, you taught yourself through expirience...giving natural selection a chance to work

It's a nice theory, and a valid debating point.

However, it's only because I knew how to downshift, pump my rear brake and steer through hazards that the young innocent woman wasn't killed by my foolishness.

Do you think the owner of the ricer car I saw even considered spending a thousand bucks on Brembo brakes and decent shock absorbers?

He/She missed killing four kids by less than an inch.

Is that how we should look at this debate? A burning WRX that flipped four times and four dead people--accompanied by our simple shrug?

[cohoskip]

All of mine shoot fine right out of the box, The only thing I have changed is the sights on a couple of them... :D

[Hedley]

I don't consider myself a fud, but I look down on the plethora of cheap add-on's the same way I would laugh at JC Whitney accesories. Seeing somone at the range with a top-folding 12 guage covered in shell holders is akin to that kid pulling up next to you in his '84 Tercell "hot rod." It's just tacky, cheap looking, an not needed.

[Scorch]

i want to know what the hell is up with all the people here that look down on "tacticool".I think a lot of folks are affronted (that's a big word that means insulted or turned off) by younger folks treating guns like some sort of a toy or a substitute for being mature. Many of us older folks were raised to treat guns as something special, a tool to be respected and not abused. But hey, different strokes.
if you dont like it then you dont have to post a reply now do ya??? You post a pic and ask what people think, and they tell you. But just like you, many people seem to think that if they don't like what the replies say, then there is something wrong with the people replying. Some folks just say the first thing that pops into their head without thinking about how the reader will react to the comment.
just shutup with the negative comments!!!! Now that is a negative (and somewhat immature) comment.
divided we stand, divided (and easier) we fallUmmmmm, yeah, whatever you say. Perhaps it's time to put aside the rhetoric and start being a bit more in tune with others around us.

[Musketeer]

A person who considers it stupid to install a bayoneted on a handgun or the tool a rifle up with every gadget imaginable when the owner probably can't even properly shoot the rifle rifle is not a Fudd.

A Fudd is a "shooter" (typically they shoot a deer rifle once or twice a year, shoot trap or "duck hunt") who thinks such activities should be legally banned.

There is a very distinct difference.

[TheManHimself]

there's a difference between tacticool and practical. Raping a rifle or shotgun with the Tapco catalog is tacticool. Putting ten pounds of ****ty, made-in-china clones of military equipment on a weapon so it looks scary is tacticool. Putting quality, military/LE-grade accessories on a weapon such as Aimpoints and durable folding stocks designed to stand up to hard use, to increase its ergonomics and effectiveness, is not what we refer to as tacticool.

[Huntergirl]

I've never heard these terms used before. I'm just glad that folks have shotguns for self defense and sporting, and hope they take the time to learn how to become proficient with them. Tacticool doesn't offend me, as long as the shooter can hit what he's aiming at.:)

[bclark1]

All good and well. I bite my tongue a lot on both ends - I have looked into rails for rifles, but I think there's a lot of accessorizing junk that looks stupid, and I also think it's ridiculous to buy overprized fancy-grade firearms that are just begging to lose value if you take them afield. Practicality is my ultimate concern, regardless of how it looks.

But I think the point of this thread, and it's a good one, is a quote from Bambi:
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

In other words, Golden Rule. I don't see anything wrong with that, as much as I break it sometimes. It's a good ethos to strive for. If you genuinely know of problems that arose with something, put it out there, I'm sure no one will be angry you did. But I think what's going on, on both sides, is a frustration with unsupported conclusions. A Bambi quote coming from a guy who will kill anything that's legal and edible, how's that?

[Huntergirl]

Boy, now I'm confused. Are we splitting hairs for the sake of an argument or what? As far as any shotgun is concerned, utility, craftsmanship, whatever, people are influenced by many factors in their purchase, and learn from their buying and shooting experiences. I don't see anything to argue about.

[deanadell]

If you put a picatinny rail, laser, and a bi-pod on a single shot H&R Trapper, I will laugh.....grow some thicker skin......

[Oli]

Ok I'll bite.

Take for instance this gem:

http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/14_inch_gun.gif

The gun itself and all the accessories put on it are of the highest quality. But as a whole it must be absolutely horrible to shoot and I would never put my life in the hands of this 870.

First, he shaves some weight off with the adjustable stock. Maybe the guy was not comfy with the wood stock, maybe that's why he did it. But this is not the answer, a shotgun must keep his balance.

Second, after removing weight on the back of the gun, he adds a lot of weight toward the front by adding the rail.

IMO the Uber tactical shotgun is the 870 Police with the wood stock & forend.
It's clean, it's simple. You use it the exact same way you do with every pump shotgun you go hunting with, it's still balanced, etc, etc...

Edit : typos...

[zxcvbob]

http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/101660.jpg

[Huntergirl]

OK....but, does it make coffee?:D LMAO

[Jeff Mulliken]

As long as there is now a derisive slang term for those of us who prefer more traditional shotguns (Fudds) we need one for the amateur tactical crowd.

I'm not talking LEO's or guys with an 870 under the bed. I'm talking about the Rambo wannabee's that seem to think they have something in their double wide mobil homes that is going to attract enough bad guys that they will need every gadget in the catalog to fend them off.....

Let's hear your choices.

[DonR101395]

Jeff,
There already is one. It's mall ninja. I'd like to think I don't fall into either bunch, fudd or mall ninja.


http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/Donr101395/NewWarriorjpg.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/Donr101395/tacticality.jpg

[Jeff Mulliken]

The Camalbak full of gravy almost killed me! :D

[BigJimP]

We should all respect each others interests.

Personally, I have no use for a tactical shotgun - or tactically configured weapons in general - but others may have no interest in owning a fine target type shotgun - but buy what you want, and do what you want with it. There's plenty of room for everyone / its your money.

But if they ask - is a tactical gun a good gun for skeet - I will give them an opinion ( and the answer is sure they can shoot it - but are there better guns - yes ).

[fisherman66]

We should all respect each others interests.

Mary Poppins. :p

[johnbt]

Tactical is.
Tacticool isn't.
Practical that is.

http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/642/TactiCool.JPG

But this one is funnier. He should have bought an armored wheelbarrow.

http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/642/tankchase.gif

Elmer

[kozak6]

I don't usually reply when I don't like a shotgun anyways.

Here's how I see it:

"Tactical" is fine. I get it. I'd probably have a few "tactical" shotguns if I had the funds. It's not practical for some things, and better for others. Fine.

But if you're going to do tactical, you should at least do it right.

When you have your 34" barreled H&R single shot with a top folding stock and a steak knife duct-taped to the barrel, what's the point?

It's like putting a coffee can muffler, plastic Walmart spinners, and spray paint racing stripes on your '92 Honda Civic.

[The Tourist]

It's like putting a coffee can muffler, plastic Walmart spinners, and spray paint racing stripes on your '92 Honda Civic.

You have just described 2/3's of the ricer cars in my area. You forgot about wealthy suburban kids blasting out their bass-speakers about a life in the projects they never knew.

Now, we all laugh at that, but it's an attitude we unfortunately all find. Look, I still have a few knives I purchased in my forties with fancy handles. That's not my position, in total. After all, it's your money to waste.

I'd like to see ricers with decent brakes. As for the shotgun, if you're going to tart it up, just make sure the parts come from a reputable company and installed correctly.

I think the fuds are saying "Have fun, don't blow yourself up."

[Ruger4570]

Personally I could care less what a person wants to use for Home Defense. I just advise people to check with a criminal type lawyer and see what the FACTS truly are regarding a Tackycool gun. I am sure if you made any small mistake in your defense a real ambitious Prosecuting Attorney wanting to move up his carreer is going to drag you into Court.
He most likely will be showing a Jury your tricked out gun and saying no one with good intentions needs a gun like this. The Jury may be made up of mostly non gun owners too that are upset about your choice of weapon with 15 rounds, bayonet,breaching end and so on. He might convince a Jury you were HOPING someone would break in just so you could take out a bad guy. You never know what tactic they might use to get a conviction of you.
I truly beleive everyone has the right to defend themselves, even with deadly force if that is what HAS to happen to save your own life. I use a Rem 1100 with a 26" Skeet barrel, short enough to move quickly in a room. It also looks just like any Sporting and non threatning gun.
Like I said, do what you want, it makes no difference to me. If that makes me a FUDD,, so be it.

[The Tourist]

Sporting and non threatning gun

I'm very glad you brought this up. In fact, I had been thinking about starting this very concept as a separate thread.

For example, there is no doubt in my mind that if I went into a Borders Book Store for a latte' wearing my road clothes that at least two little old ladies would leave--or at least change seats. What you and I consider "non-threatening" scares the willies out of someone else.

And confusion can be critical. I remember when the serious study of sharks began after the "Jaws" craze, the scientists observed something. Some sharks swam by with their fins pointed straight down. They didn't know what it meant. Years later they found it meant, "I'm going to attack right now if you don't leave my area!"

A duck shotgun might not immediately scare me. Four bangers in a car might not scare me. Certainly a the pocket clip of a knife in the right front pocket doesn't bother me.

A guy knocking at my door at zero-dark-thirty might in fact be an innocent citizen being chased by a mugger. Or he might be the mugger, himself.

[billindenver]

I don't have any problem with people buying whatever makes them feel like they are happy and their lives are worthwhile. But, if they look like a wanna be while doing so...I will excercise my God given, American rights to laugh hysterically at them. Tactical, for the sake of feeling cool...is just funny to this Marine. I can't help it...

With that said, I would take up arms to defend others rights to look/act as they please.

http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data/500/InternetCommando.jpg

[The Tourist]

I will excercise my God given, American rights to laugh hysterically at them

Well, I hope I would tell a younger guy about an issue of safety--without trying to preach.

For example, I met with my mechanic today. The entire front end of my bike and braking system--including hydraulics--was changed out this winter. The power of the engine and torque was increased by 10%.

Even after all these years, we had a serious conversation on safety, control expectations, the working mechanism of an inverted fork and the electrical needs of starting an enhanced engine without replacing the battery or starter.

The mechanic is half my age, but he is a graduate of Harley's own school, and he just came back from a seminar at their facility.

He spoke, I shut up and listened.

To my way of thinking, if this is prudent advice for a big chrome toy, it ought be a necessary course of action for a lethal implement.

[Nemsis]

I treat my HD gun like my race bikes if it don't make it run better or serve a purpose it don't go on it.

[furyfour]

my HD gun is a Benelli Supernova tactical. all stock at the moment, but i'd like to add a mag extension, side saddle, and a surefire light...

is this overly tacticool lol?

[TheManHimself]

Personally I could care less what a person wants to use for Home Defense. I just advise people to check with a criminal type lawyer and see what the FACTS truly are regarding a Tackycool gun. I am sure if you made any small mistake in your defense a real ambitious Prosecuting Attorney wanting to move up his carreer is going to drag you into Court.
He most likely will be showing a Jury your tricked out gun and saying no one with good intentions needs a gun like this. The Jury may be made up of mostly non gun owners too that are upset about your choice of weapon with 15 rounds, bayonet,breaching end and so on. He might convince a Jury you were HOPING someone would break in just so you could take out a bad guy. You never know what tactic they might use to get a conviction of you.
I truly beleive everyone has the right to defend themselves, even with deadly force if that is what HAS to happen to save your own life. I use a Rem 1100 with a 26" Skeet barrel, short enough to move quickly in a room. It also looks just like any Sporting and non threatning gun.
Like I said, do what you want, it makes no difference to me. If that makes me a FUDD,, so be it.

Bull****. Find me one single documented case where the shooter was in the green on use of lethal force and this mythical evil DA got him put away anyway. You won't find it. When you use lethal force in self-defense, there are only two ways it can go; either you were legally justified in taking the shot or you weren't. If it was a good shoot, there's no prosecution against you to begin with. If it wasn't justifiable self-defense, you're screwed whether you used a single-shot .410 with birdshot or a M2HB heavy machinegun.

[oneounceload]

nice attitude predator.....yep, makes us all want to join your side....

:barf:

[Sportdog]

I have a lot of handguns, rifles, and shotguns. Most are pure stock and some have a few add-ons. The best improvement that I have made was to put a Tapco M4 stock on my Ruger 10-22. I love the adjustable stock and the pistol grip. My grandson and I both shoot it with just a tweak of the lever and push or pull to suit our difference of pull lengths. Say what you will about this stock......I like it. I also had the barrel of an old and not very valuable 12 Gauge SxS cut off down to 20 inches. If that's "Tacticool" so be it. I had plenty of other shotguns and no need for a long barrel double so I just turned it into a home defense weapon and fun shooter which it is. I say to all of you guys that are into "Tacticool" Go For It! Enjoy your firearms and be glad that this is America and we have the right to spend our money the way WE want to spend it and comunicate with others having similar interests. Don't let others rain on your parade. After all......Isn't the sponser of this site "SWAT" magazine? I'm SPORTDOG, and I approve this message!

[.351winchester]

Well spoken Sportdog.
*toasts*

[model70fan]

You can polish a **** all ya want, it's still a ****. Souping up an '87 honda doesn't change the fact that it's an '87 honda, the sad thing is though that these people "tactifying" (I don't think it's a real word:D) these firearms are actually wrecking a perfectly functional and practical firearm. Some modifications actually enhance the abilities, fun factor, practicality, etc... of a firearm, but when people create a 30# AR with so many gadgets it looks like somethiing out of inspector gadget it makes a gun impractical and just a downright useless tool. Do what you wish to your property, it doesn't bother me, but when people ask "what do ya think?", they're going to hear what people think.

[bestbod85]

"I treat my HD gun like my race bikes if it don't make it run better or serve a purpose it don't go on it."



My words exactly