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UniversalFrost
April 16, 2008, 10:25 AM
Ok folks.

I have been looking around for a .22 silencer for one of my Ruger Chargers and possible to swap onto one of my 10/22 rifles as well.

I think I have it narrowed down to the Outback II or the Quest.

Reviews are needed from owners and please feel free to add any other cans I may want to look into.

JOE

Wildalaska
April 16, 2008, 02:01 PM
Tell ya there Frost, I just got a can from Zak Smiths outfit, www.thunderbeastarms.com, and having dealt with him and his partner Shane I am super impressed.......

Id toss him a PM.

WildreportcomingAlaska ™

UniversalFrost
April 16, 2008, 02:14 PM
thanks Ken,

I will have to shoot him a PM.

I am actually in Colorado right now (TDY til June)

So , I might just have to look him up and stop by.

JOE

Zak Smith
April 16, 2008, 02:28 PM
Joe,

There are a lot of good .22LR cans. Our is made of Ti and works on .22WMR and .17 HMR also.

Give me a call or email and we can arrange a demo while you're here.

-z

UniversalFrost
April 16, 2008, 03:19 PM
Zak I will give you a call in a few days.

I am currently setting up my trust for any future NFA purchases.

VUPDblue
April 16, 2008, 03:42 PM
I've got an Outback II and a Quest. The Outback is ever so slightly quieter than the Quest. If you want total quiet, the Outback is the way to go. I got the Quest to run in full auto on my M16/Ciener. It works fantastic in that role, and it can be disassembled for cleaning. It is much heavier than the Outback, and a bit louder, but it is still a good can.

HankB
April 16, 2008, 10:22 PM
There are a lot of good .22LR cans. Our is made of Ti and works on .22WMR and .17 HMR also.Your website says your suppressors are "sealed" . . .

I'm not even a low-grade expert on suppressors, but I know .22s are dirty, and postings in the forums at http://www.silencertests.com/ assert that all sorts of schmutz will accumulate inside a .22 suppressor over time.

How do you clean it out of a sealed can? :confused:

Lavid2002
April 16, 2008, 10:25 PM
how would you clean the can?

UniversalFrost
April 16, 2008, 10:36 PM
well, from what i have done in the past on my other cans was to soak in gun cleaner than run a brush through then rinse. Of course always go by the makers recommendations.

JOE

Zak Smith
April 16, 2008, 10:37 PM
I make sure to shoot some high velocity ammo through it now and then, and I tap it on my bumper to knock the crud out. I have about 2500 rounds through my personal demo can right now and there is no buildup. That's my "cleaning is over-rated" spiel. However, since it's Ti, you can use solvents and/or an ultrasonic cleaner if you really have to get it clean.

VUPDblue
April 17, 2008, 09:00 AM
Check this out... My Outback II weighs almost double what it did when it was new. It still is as quiet as ever. Eventually, I'll send it back to GemTech for a refurb...

PAR
April 17, 2008, 05:34 PM
You may want to check out this site before you lay down your money because there's a few more options that may interest you.

http://www.silencerresearch.com/

VUPDblue
April 17, 2008, 06:19 PM
I've had quite a few individuals request my assistance when purchasing their first suppressor (usually their first NFA item altogther). Of those I assisted or guided through selection and the process of application, they have bought a wide array of .22 cans. From Tac65's to Outbacks to Pilots to Quests to Aviators to Checkmates and other smaller, lesser known companies. I have yet to have one single person come back and say "I wish I had gone with X instead of the one I got". I would say that the chances are excellent that whichever can you chose, you will not be sorry. .22's are very easy to effectively suppress, and the choices to effect that means are endless because the manufacturers 'get it'. The only thing I would ask myself, is 'how hard am I going to be on this thing'. I couldn't imagine being hard on my Outback (my first can), but my selection criteria for my latest can (Quest) was a bit more rigid because I plan on dumping tens of thousands of fully automatic .22lr's downrange through it. I'm about to buy a Checkmate mostly because I think it is a cool design, it is cheap, and the manufacturer is one guy that does it in his spare time.

Trust me, suppressors are like Ruffles (or whoever), betcha can't have just one...

UniversalFrost
April 17, 2008, 11:33 PM
well, guys this is not my first time around the block with cans or NFA items, but I don't own a "modern" (last 5 years) can and was wanting input on the greatest can (in your experience) . I have seen teh 65 in operation and like that you can break it down for cleaning, but have also seen it come loose many times, so that is a turn off. Right now I will only be using for semi auto "plinking", but I might show it slight full auto fire in the future (depending on how my stocks do at the end of the year).

This can (and the 9mm trident I just put money down on) will be my first cans on a trust. All the others were the "normal" process.

If the trust thing works out (all others on another forum I got the details from have had zero problems including several SOT dealers now helping file out the trust's and a private lawyer who does the NFA trusts) I will post my experiences in another thread as well.

Anyway, I am gonna stop by Zak's shop and see his cans first hand. They are interesting and I always like to support fellow TFL members, plus I might look at the 30 cal cans for another purchase later on.

Anyway, Zak's can, the quest and outback II are the finalists so far .

JOE

Legion2600
April 18, 2008, 12:25 AM
I have an Outback II & a TAC 67. I like the 67 better. It's built like a tank and I can take it apart -- something I insist on considering the unknown future of NFA stuff.

douglasschuckert
April 21, 2008, 12:46 AM
I own the Advanced Armament Company Pilot can. Ive got about 4000 rnds through it (estimated). Its a sealed can so it is not user servicable. Its quieter than the Outback II. I've shot both side-by-side on a couple occaisions. If you want the QUIETEST muzzle can available for .22LR you want to get AAC's Avaitor. Its STUPID Quiet.


If you're can uses ALuminum (sp) baffels, then you DO NOT want to use a sonic cleaner..

Here is how you clean a sealed .22 can.

1. Soak it in Mineral Spirits for 2 days (48 hours) and bang the threadded end against a hard surface. Then let it air dry or blow it out with compressed air... Then shoot the first mag throug it with CCI Stingers or other very hot .22 rounds. 5:10 shots will blow all the other loose crud out the end...

2. Soak it for 4 or 5 hours in gasoline. Tap the treadded end against a hard surface, then blow it dry with an air compressor... DO NOT let it air dry. Gas is costic and can potentially harm aluminum (I dont know for sure). Next time you shoot use HOT rounds for a mag or 2.

THis is all you have to do and it will give you a LIFE-TIME of service. If you do manage to shoot it out, if you purchase a name-brand can the manu's will replace/repair it free of charge. AAC, Gem-Tech, and SWR (SWR's Warlock is VERY, VERY, nice too) will replace or repair a damaged baffle stack free of charge... AAC is a little slow on customer service but will stand behind their products, Gem-Tech is REAL good about standing behind their stuff and customer service is OUTSTANDING, and SWR is top-of-the league as well!

A side note.. Any can that is not sealed will NOT be as quiet as the sealed units are. The TI is a GREAT cheap can. You can take it apart, but there really isn't a need to unless you want to scrub your baffles to a gleaning finish again, but that's not neccessary... really it isn't.

BerettaFox
April 26, 2008, 11:38 PM
I have a American Armament Corp. (AAC) Pilot. it's tiny and doesn't weigh a thing. You can switch it to your 10-22. It's really quiet. All you can hear is the action of your gun. I haven't ever shot it on a rifle, but I imagine it's much quieter than on my p22. You might pay a little more for one, but hell it has a lifetime warranty.

Zak Smith
April 26, 2008, 11:48 PM
I have a American Armament Corp. (AAC) Pilot.
AAC = Advanced Armament Corp

dakid2
April 27, 2008, 12:39 AM
I am not sure of the brand on our 3 lug MP5, but I think it needs a cleaning or overhaul. Gotta find out the manufacturer first. Thanks for the links earlier on in the thread.

BerettaFox
April 27, 2008, 03:00 PM
yeah.... it was really late. but anywho i haven't had the first problem out of mine. my neighbors have PTSD from vietnam and they hated me shooting at all on my property. now for all they know i'm shooting a pellet gun.

LiquidTension7
April 30, 2008, 12:20 AM
If I hadn't known a local guy that builds cans, I would have gone with an SWR Spectre or Warlock. After talking with many Gemtech owners, I'll never give them my money. Everything AAC makes is top notch, same with SWR.

VUPDblue
April 30, 2008, 08:13 AM
After talking with many Gemtech owners, I'll never give them my money

Would you care to expound on that statement?

LiquidTension7
May 14, 2008, 05:48 PM
I'll start out by saying that by most accounts the Outback-II is a good can - not as good as the Warlock or Spectre, but good.

I have yet to find anyone that recommends a Trinity over a Trident. I am aware that the Trinity is discontinued, but when I started looking for a multiple mount can those were the options.

There is compelling evidence that they steal designs from other people, while accusing others of the same. The baffle stack in the T2 for example is curiously similar to the stack designed by user green0 over on the silencertalk forums. The inertia device for their new Multimount was quite obviously a direct ripoff of the booster from the AAC Evo. The parts of the booster are even interchangeable. http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22033

There's the issue of them trying to get ATF to not allow manufacturers to fix cans that they did not make. AAC has on several occasions rebuilt crappy Gemtech cans into something better, and that is bad for Gemtech's business. The effect of their bitchiness could have been that owners would have to pay another transfer tax to have a can rebuilt - thankfully, that has not happened.

The Gemtech G5 failed the military torture test that 6 of AAC's cans passed. The G5 failed miserably, partially due to key components being held together with roll pins instead of being welded. The thing literally fell apart.
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10473

They claim that it passed the test on a different occasion and many were sent out to the military. If that's true, then either their build quality is inconsistent or they intentionally sell inferior products to non military customers.

Yes, I'm aware that silencertalk.com is owned by an AAC employee. Even so, there's just too much evidence of shadiness for me. And when dozens of board members, several shooting buddies, and two dealers tell me I'd be better off with a can from a different company - well, that's enough for me.

VUPDblue
May 14, 2008, 06:24 PM
The baffle stack in the T2 for example is curiously similar to the stack designed by user green0 over on the silencertalk forums.

And they are both curiously similar to the AAC Prodigy, the YHM Mite and others. Just because they all are utilizing monolithic baffles doesn't mean that one "stole" the idea from another. When suppressor technology moved beyond wipes and media to "K" baffles, all manufactures followed the technology. Now it's moving from "K" baffles to monolithic designs. It's simply new technology, not a proprietary design. Each maker tweaks the design a little to offer something unique.

As for the issue of Gemtech bringing the rebuilding of cans to BATFE's attention, I can't say that I totally disagree with that decision. Some of what AAC was doing was blatantly manufacturing a new can and slapping an existing serial # on it. That's no different than Colt or Oly. doing the same thing with RR M16 lowers. The BATFE put a stop to that, too.

If you don't like Gemtech or whoever, for whatever reason, that's fine with me, but it has been my experience that Gemtech makes a very high quality product and has top-of-the-line customer service. I speak from experience as I own several of their products. I personally don't drink the AAC kool-aid because I question a lot about their business practices. Specifically their oughtright and public "bashing" of almost every other suppressor company out there. I do own AAC cans, and both of them were bought or traded for pre-loved. The one time I tried to buy a new AAC can I had quite possibly the worst customer-service related experience on the planet.

LiquidTension7
May 14, 2008, 08:42 PM
And they are both curiously similar to the AAC Prodigy, the YHM Mite and others.

Negative. The Mite and the Prodigy do look similar to each other - but neither looks like green0/Gemtech's baffles.

If you're happy with your Gemtech products, I'm happy for you. As I said before, I just don't feel the need to give them my money. Thank goodness we have choices, huh? :)

douglasschuckert
May 15, 2008, 12:18 AM
deleted due to me just being an ass...

Wildalaska
May 15, 2008, 01:08 AM
Well quiet is quiet and based on my ears alone, Zak Smiths 308 can in the quietest I have ever not heard....had the chance to shoot the 308 with it last Sunday and folks were simply amazed...sonic crack and that is it...

Plus you get to deal with a guy who posts here, and will answer all your questions.

Wildwaitingforhis338canandoneforsemiautosAlaska TM

UniversalFrost
May 15, 2008, 08:51 AM
yeah, I am gonna also go take a look at the cans Zak offers before I head on back to AZ. I am probably gonna pick up either a can from him or my local dealer has a Quest II in stock right now.

I will make sure to post a review of the cans Zak has to offer, plus I am probably gonna be in the market for a .30 cal can in the near future so I will be looking at what Zak has to offer in that as well. Now, only if he offered a .338 cal can for my 2 lapua's:D .


JOE

VUPDblue
May 15, 2008, 09:11 AM
http://www.silencerresearch.com/aacprodigysmall.jpg
http://www.silencerresearch.com/checkmatesmall.jpg

Not similar, huh?

Zak Smith
May 15, 2008, 10:36 AM
I don't want to get into this ******* content, but VUPDblue, those only "look" the same in that they have a monolithic core that goes in an outer tube. Check out the baffle shape, porting, and gas blow arrangement, they're totally different. A monolithic core is a advantageous for manufacturing efficiency on CNC machines, whereas distinct baffles require more labor. Some would argue that taking a solid piece of bar stock and making your baffle stack out of it in one "go" is an obvious step to anyone "skilled in the art" with a modern CNC machine.

If anyone wants a crash course in suppressor design, read Alan Paulson's book on silencer patents. Or sign up for a free account on http://www.freepatentsonline.com/ and read them for free there, including newer patents. These are instructive because the claims reveal exactly what features and/or combination of features is claimed to be protected.

Anyone in manufacturing today has to be concerned with "patent avoidance", in other words, making sure their design does not infringe on the claims of a valid, defensible patent. (I have several patents from my "day job.")

-z

VUPDblue
May 15, 2008, 11:09 AM
I don't want to get into this ******* content, but VUPDblue, those only "look" the same in that they have a monolithic core that goes in an outer tube.

That's my point exactly. What I have been trying to get across is that just because 2 or 10 companies utilize a similar design principal, it doesn't mean that any company is stealing a proprietary design from another.

LiquidTension7
May 16, 2008, 05:15 PM
I really wasn't trying to start a Gemtech bashing session. I stated my opinion of the company, and when asked to back up my opinion I did so. Like I said before, if you like Gemtech that's great. I simply believe that for the price there are better options.

LiquidTension7
May 16, 2008, 05:25 PM
I would like to hear about your poor CS experience, if you don't mind.

BerettaFox
May 16, 2008, 08:25 PM
get an AAC Pilot... it's the quietest, lightest, and smallest.... the only one cooler was that one that was the pilot, but longer. I forget the name. I'm really happy with my Pilot.

Zak Smith
May 16, 2008, 09:28 PM
it's the quietest, lightest, and smallest.
Pretty sure there are .22LR cans shorter than 5.2" and lighter than 3.5 oz. ;)

PTK
May 16, 2008, 09:32 PM
Zak

You have to admit, it's a nice can. Just not the best of the best of the best. ;)


Speaking of which, if you'd sell your cans here in CO direct, I'd buy one. I'm in the Denver area - which dealer would you suggest?

Zak Smith
May 16, 2008, 09:59 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the interest. Since our SOT is based in Wyoming, our suppressors have to go through a class 3 dealer in Colorado for Colorado residents. However, Jensen Arms (Loveland) and Alan Samuel (Dumont) both sell our cans. (Jensen Arms usually has some in stock, and Alan has some 30P's in stock right now too.) You can also bug Oliver at Iron Ridge Arms (Longmont) to get an order going.

If you want a demo first, contact me privately and we can arrange something.

thanks
Zak

PTK
May 16, 2008, 10:02 PM
Alan has some? I already have five or six things going through him, he probably even mentioned you (we talked about CO Multi-Gun for a bit)

I didn't even think to ask about them. D'oh.

Zak Smith
May 16, 2008, 10:06 PM
Alan has some .30 cal, no .22's right now. I think Jensens has some un-accounted-for .22's either right now, or coming in very soon.

-z

freakshow10mm
May 17, 2008, 12:19 AM
From what I've been reading about suppressors is that the monolithic stack isn't new technology, just going through a resurgence.

douglasschuckert
May 17, 2008, 09:10 PM
I have a Pilot. Its a great can, but there are better ones out there. The SWR Warlock come to mind, SRT's Cheyenne XL is another one. AAC's Aviator is just a Pilot with an extra baffle stack in there. AWC also makes one hell of a good can as well.... Like I said I have the Pilot, but if I had it to do over again I would get the Warlock from SWR.

If you're wanting to compare Apples to Apples, you might want to look into GemTech's Outback II (the think sounds almost exactly like the Pilot).

All of your user serviceable cans, the ones that come apart, will not be as quiet as the sealed ones. I dont know why this is, but I've shot LOTS of various .22 suppressors, and every disassemblable can that I've shot (Tac (series), Prodigy, and some others Im forgetting right now) has been louder than their sealed counterparts.

The major myth one must get past is the one saying .22 is so dirty sealed cans will get too dirty to function and you have no way of cleaning them. The real truth is sealed cans are quiet easy to clean. Soak them over night in Paint thinner or give them a 5 day soak in Mineral Spirits, and tap the coupling end on a hard surface... then blow them dry with an air compressor. You're done. You do this about ever 5 to 7,000 rounds and they will last you a life time.

FWIW.

rick983
May 29, 2008, 04:54 PM
I have a GemTech Outback II that I use on three different 22's and I really like it. Well made.

Broke
May 30, 2008, 02:54 AM
I'll never own another sealed .22 suppressor again.
I made that mistake, once.;)

My sealed integral was no more quiet than this one that comes apart. Both are stupid quiet.
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20043.avi (18MB) (not sealed)
http://www.brokevw.com/picc%20002.avi (4MB) (sealed)
Video is bad to judge a suppressor by, but it gives you the idea. The low res video sounds louder, but it was a different camera. Both guns are equally as nice sounding... the 18MB vid just makes it sound better than the other vid.

Accumulation of carbon and lead build up... (they're huge pics that take a bit to load)
After 400 rounds:
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20018.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20040.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20041.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20042.jpg

After 1100 rounds:
expansion chamber-
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20026.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20031.jpg
barrel-
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20023.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20028.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20029.jpg
baffles-
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20036.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-26%20024.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-26%20027.jpg

The less volume the can has, the less space there is for hot gas to cool before being released.
The sealed gun got loud enough I didn't like shooting it, it sounded more like a small firecracker towards the end, with a noticeable pop. It had 5K rounds through it, but I shot it that much in about 3 months.

After reading www.silencerresearch.com and in particular this page http://www.silencerresearch.com/tac_67.htm it was clear to me why my sealed unit was loud, and I bought one that comes apart:cool:

Brian

Zak Smith
May 30, 2008, 06:38 AM
I've got over 6000 rounds through my demo model 22S and it looks cleaner than yours at 1100, and it's still as quiet as when "new."

-z

Broke
May 30, 2008, 10:10 AM
I wish mine would go 6K rounds and still be clean... but my luck is usually bad:)

Brian

Crosshair
May 30, 2008, 04:50 PM
for a 22 rimfire my #1 concern is being able to take it apart for cleaning. I would only consider 22 cans that can be taken apart and go from there. The TAC-67 had a solid track record and the Quest should be better still.

/Still love my TAC-62

GA Limited GM
February 27, 2010, 11:57 AM
It only seems logical to me that some of the differences you guys are seeing in crud build up can be more related to the type of ammo being fired. Maybe we need to also mention in these post which brand of ammo you are burning.

Some powders I think are swept from floors. Just saying.....

jsykes
February 27, 2010, 05:21 PM
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the SWR Spectre at this point. Its rated for full auto and 5.7, can be disassembled and is very quiet. I really like mine. Here is a vid of it on a 10/22. The firing pin dropping on an empty chamber at the end of the vid is almost as loud as the actual firing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IEihyQRpAE

WoofersInc
February 28, 2010, 02:50 PM
I have 2 Outbacks and they have been great. However I have another22 suppressor waiting on paperwork. For this one I went with a SilencerCo Sparrow. It has a unique takedown and is getting very good reports from people who have them.

http://www.silencerco.com/Silencerco/#/22sparrow/features/

mchris80
March 1, 2010, 02:15 PM
I love my AAC Aviator. Works great on my Mark III and S&W M&P 15-22. It is a little longer than the Pilot but was a good bit more quite and is still light.