PDA

View Full Version : 30-30 Cal. too small?


sureshots
April 9, 2008, 06:23 PM
Where has the 30-30 Cal. gone? The 30-30 Cal. throughout all the years has undisputedly been the most famous Cal. of all. Our ancestors fed thier families with these guns of old. Modern,so called experts snub their noses at this so called obsolete Cal. Gun makers pass this Cal. by when they bring out the new models. With all the improvments made in this Cart. (30-30cal) by Hornady and other Mgfs. why shouldn't the 30-30 Cal. still be one of the most popular Cal. for whitetail deer? Ever seen A Bolt Action 30-30 cal?

Yellowfin
April 9, 2008, 06:28 PM
It's far from gone, it's just not the latest miracle cure-all caliber that the magazine writers are all drooling over. There are millions of .30-30's in gun safes and in the hands of deer hunters. It always has been and always will be. It's never going to be gone because it's a generation to generation thing. My family has had two deer calibers for as long as anyone can trace it--.30-06 and .30-30. That's an ingrained part of what deer hunting is to us. Neither one of them are headliners but both put deer down and they stay there, and have for a hundred years. A bullet doesn't stop working just because it goes out of style. It just may not be making headlines for new sales because there's so many out there that a lot of folks already have theirs and/or are buying them used.

Shadow walker1
April 9, 2008, 06:42 PM
Or inherit them. I too was brought up with the 30-30 and the .06 as the deer rifles in the house. Dad also competition shot locally, and the 30.06 did double duty there in a 1903 Sprg.

My little bro inherited the 30-30 Winchester 94. I got the 30.06 Sprg. I borrow my brothers Winchester most deer seasons. He has since bought a couple more, and the close brush northern NY offers for deer isn't so condusive to that long '03.

Doyle
April 9, 2008, 08:07 PM
Experienced hunters usually consider the standard 150grn SP to be about a 150 to 200 yd max caliber. With the new Hornady LeverEvolution bullets, maximum range is extended out to about 250 yds. I sight mine in 3" high at about 120 yds. This puts me dead on at about 200 yds and about 3" low at 250 yds. That is plenty of range for 95% of all deer here in Florida.

fisherman66
April 9, 2008, 08:56 PM
Nuthin wrong with the 30/30 or any other 30 caliber. It sure isn't too small for medium sized game at appropriate distances.

globemaster3
April 9, 2008, 09:06 PM
+1 on above. The 30-30 is classic. It won't be leaving any time soon with the millions upon millions of rifles out there. I started with a borrowed 30-30 before being able to pony up the $ on a bolt .308.

Gbro
April 10, 2008, 12:21 AM
Ever seen A Bolt Action 30-30 cal?

I bought one fro my daughter, Rem 788
The rimmed case makes for difficult box magazine usage.
I was told to be extra careful when loading the magazine, not to get the rimmed cases out of alignment. I don't know where that originated but i think its more speculation than "Been th, done that"
There are just to many other good cartridges available to mess with the 30-30.

HOGGHEAD
April 10, 2008, 12:32 AM
The 30-30 cartridge is probably one of the best there is for beginning hunter's. Can anybody think of any centerfire ammo that is cheaper to buy?? For practice?? Certainly a new hunter is not yet a reloader?? The recoil of the 30-30 is very manageable. The rimmed cartridge is probably the best type of cartridge for a single shot rifle. And certainly one of the greatest rifles of all times is a lever action Winchester or Marlin??

I know people who have hunted their entire life with the 30-30 cartridge in a fast handling, quick reloading, light weight, inexpensive lever action 30-30. It may not be a long range big booming magnum, but they call it hunting, not shooting. Tom.

zoomie
April 10, 2008, 01:05 AM
For cheap practice, I think the edge goes to the .223, but I'll take a .308 bullet over a .224 bullet for everything but punching holes in paper.

Jack O'Conner
April 10, 2008, 07:34 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/Stevens30-30.jpg

This is an older Stevens in 30-30. Note the butter handle bolt and tasteful trigger guard. Savage version model 340 did not have these two features. Savage stopped production in mid-1980's due to slow sales. But they're very good rifles.

My favorite Savage 30-30 was the model 219 single shot with European styling. I had one rechambered to 30-30 PO Ackley Improved and replicated 150 grain 300 Savage ballistics with 130 grain pointed Speer bullet. It shot very impressive 200 yard groups.

30-30 carbines and rifles are here to stay. In 2008, two new models have dawned from Henry and Mossberg. Hunters have never had so many choices.

Improved ammo by Hornady has extended range and flattened trajectory for this older cartridge. Remington even offers managed recoil ammo for 30-30 which makes it a natural for new shooters to develope skills.

30-30 is keeper!

Jack

sureshots
April 10, 2008, 07:51 AM
That is A really neat rifle. I like that Bolt. I have A new TC Icon with the Butterknife bolt. If I see right the safey is built in the trigger guard. I like this also. You know what they say,"A picture is worth A thousand words", thanks

deanadell
April 10, 2008, 09:04 AM
Got a 30/30 in the safe now. Take it out ever deer season. But your question is almost like asking "Why don't they put fins on Cadillacs anymore?";)

Mavrik
April 10, 2008, 09:24 AM
The only reason I'm currently not hunting deer with my 30-30 is that the rules recently changed in the county I hunt to require that any Bucks shot have a minimum of 4 pts on at least one side. I'd rather have a scoped rifle if I need to count points and I refuse (and my father requested that I don't as well) to scope on the 30-30 that he handed down to me.

Mav

model70fan
April 10, 2008, 01:07 PM
I actually started hunting deer more often with iron sighted 30-30s and .32 WCFs, more of a challenge than a scoped .270. I have to test my skills as a hunter and get closer with an iron sighted leveraction that I would with a scoped rifle. The 30-30 is coming for an elk hunt next fall, plenty of gun if the range is right. My ancestors did it, the cartride hasn't changed, it will still kill dear and elk deader than hell.

Tuckahoe
April 10, 2008, 03:13 PM
The 30-30 winchester is my all time favorite caliber. I never intend to be without one. If I had to give up all of my rifles the Marlin 336 would be a keeper. From white tail deer to black bear coyotes and everything between the 30-30 does the job.
If you cannot take deer with a 30-30 you need some hunting lessons. You simply do not need a magnum caliber rifle to take a deer or a black bear.

castnblast
April 10, 2008, 09:08 PM
30/30's are great...they don't have the "sexy" apeal of a mega flat trajectory, but seriously, how many deer are REALLY shot over 200 yds anyway? yes there are some, but all in all, most are under 150...not saying it won't kill a deer farther...it will, you just have to know your gun.

bcarver
April 11, 2008, 01:41 AM
I think of the lever gun when 30-30 is mentioned.
I owned a bolt 30-30 once. I think it was a ted williams something or another.
I have a .30-30 contender that shoots great.
I had a bad experiance with a .30-30 lever gun and never bought one.
However I have a .35 remington lever gun that is awesome to 125 yards.
Deer act as if they have been hit with a sledge hammer.

qajaq59
April 11, 2008, 06:03 AM
The 30-30 isn't gone. It is just that we use them without having some silly sports writer along to write a story about them and make a buck. Mine kills hogs every chance they get, and they do it well.

hogdogs
April 11, 2008, 07:40 AM
I doubt the American deer hunter (Any american for that matter) will ever see the demise of the .30-30. I too think of the lever gun when thinking of that round. The only more reliable common hunting rifle than the Lever Gun is possibly a bolt action. My first 3 deer were shot with a model 94 Winchester and I wasn't even 13 yet!:D Head shot all three and than grampa goes and tells me of this magic spot called a "vital zone" and how he had intended to get my first deer head mounted.. than second... than third... than I missed out on hunting with him again and never did get a mount!:mad: I simply cannot think of a better round in a better gun for my southern brush filled woods for hunting deer. I would like to add a .30-06 for big hogs and deer at greater distance but picking from the available brands configurations and measurements is hard! Basically a levergun is a one size fits all shooter for typical 65-150 yard shots and NO GUN/RIFLE is as easy to point quickly or regain the target for second shot follow up if needed!
Brent

sureshots
April 11, 2008, 07:42 PM
The modern trend in rifles now days seems to be lite weight rifles. Most of the lever actions are usually A little on the heavy side. Don't you think if the gun companys offered the 30-30 cal in some of these light bolt actions they would be A hit? The low recoil of this cal. would be A nice match for one of these light weights.

dahermit
April 11, 2008, 09:03 PM
Ever seen A Bolt Action 30-30 cal?Yup, My Winchester M-54 bolt action in 30-30.

roy reali
April 12, 2008, 06:31 PM
.30-30 should not be used on California deer. A much bigger cartridge is needed.

Doyle
April 12, 2008, 08:03 PM
.30-30 should not be used on California deer. A much bigger cartridge is needed.

What? The deer in Commifornia are not armor plated. 30-30 will kill them just as dead as any other rifle as long as you respect the distances.

Scorch
April 12, 2008, 11:52 PM
.30-30 should not be used on California deer.Wish somebody had told me that 35 years ago! Man, I wouldn't have shot all those deer when I was growing up!

Stiofan
April 13, 2008, 01:19 AM
.30-30 should not be used on California deer. A much bigger cartridge is needed.

You mean those 85 lbs coastal backtails I used to hunt? Even the muleys in zones X9 and X12 would drop to a .30-30 pretty quick. So this is another of Roy's lame jokes, right?

T. O'Heir
April 13, 2008, 03:01 AM
"...Ever seen a Bolt Action 30-30 cal?..." The Savage 340 came in .30-30. They dropped it after some corporate restructuring long ago. Should have bought the one I saw long ago given the reputation for tack driving accuracy that bolt action .30-30's have. Can't for the life of me remember why I didn't. Likely just young and stupid.
"....30-30 should not be used on California deer..." HAHAHAHA!!! While it's not the best cartridge, a 170 grain .30-30 will drop a big Canadian moose with no fuss. It'll drop a big elk too.

roy reali
April 13, 2008, 08:20 AM
California deer have access to BALCO products.

Art Eatman
April 13, 2008, 09:51 AM
IMO, a lot of the bum rap against the .30-30 is more from the sights on "as issue" lever actions. Rather difficult to aim accurately with them, compared to peep sights or scopes.

Another factor is the hype over "flat-shooting" modern or magnum cartridges. Add in "kill at 300 (or at 400) yards!" stuff. Most deer are killed inside 200 yards. But, hype over decades affects folks' opinions.

"Everybody knows..." is commonly wrong.

:), Art

Inspector3711
April 13, 2008, 08:08 PM
I grew up borrowing grandpa's "meat gun". He had upgraded to a Remington pump in .30-06. I ended up using the old (early 1950's) Marlin 336C and every year we would site in. Every year they let me fire one shot at a target. Every year it was within an inch of the bull and some years inside it. Dad has the meat gun now (I hope I get it some day) and it's never felt the weight of a scope on it's back or been equipped with a sling. Not bad at 100 yds with open sites.
Grandpa took down more deer, antelope, elk and black bear with the old brushcutter than he ever did with the .30-06. Where did he hunt? Eastern Oregon, now famous for long shots with .270's and magnums. I think a 30-30 will kill a deer no matter where the deer may be. All you have to do is hit it in the right spot.

trooper3385
April 14, 2008, 02:13 AM
A couple of years ago, I bought a stainless steel Marlin 336 in a 30-30. I had model 94's before, but I always wanted a Marlin 30-30. When I saw the stainless steel 336, I thought it was pretty neat because you don't see those everyday. Anyway, I bought it and found a new stainless Nikon Prostaff scope on Ebay for about $50. With the new Hornandy ammo, it's now one of my most accurate guns that I have and I have quite a few guns. It shoots under well 1 in. at 100 yds. I've shot several large hogs, a couple of Javelinas and 2 does with it and it dropped then all on the spot.

Tuckahoe
April 14, 2008, 07:07 AM
Many have found that the Marlin 336 is very accurate. The new Hornady LE ammunition has moved the 30-30 out to a 300 yard hunter. My 30-06 is seeing less time in the woods these days.

Holman
April 14, 2008, 07:44 AM
When I go hunt there are several hunters that hunt with the 30-30. I think that in East Texas the 30-30 still is the favorite rifle choice for deer hunting. Most of the hunters there that I have talked to have at least one 30-30 in their gun collection. I bought a Marlin 336 with the factory scope on it, I need to go to the range and sight it in. A 100 yard zero will work fine in East Texas. :)

qajaq59
April 14, 2008, 11:31 AM
.30-30 should not be used on California deer. A much bigger cartridge is needed. Yeah, but those California deer hold a condor in front of them. That's not fair.;)

buzz_knox
April 14, 2008, 11:55 AM
Yeah, but those California deer hold a condor in front of them. That's not fair.

I guess you could follow the Speed tactic, and shoot the hostage. Go for the golden wound by just winging them. ;)

ryalred
April 14, 2008, 05:51 PM
I've killed more Whitetail deer with my 30-30 than all my other rifles combined. I have yet to loose a deer I've shot with my Marlin 30-30. :) At 100 yds and under it has ample power to take the Whitetail. With some of the new bullets it can be accurate well past 100 yds, although the energy drops off pretty quickly.

Oberg
April 16, 2008, 01:25 AM
last year the 30-30 was the number one selling round for deer hunting and has been for a very long time. I don't think it is going anywhere. and California deer? come on up in the north here we have alot bigger deer and the 30-30 is my favorite choice for a deer gun. and alot of the guys I hunt with think that also. Old calibers like the 30-30 and the 30-06 will never die and younger ones like the 270 and 308 will never either

Hook686
April 16, 2008, 01:31 AM
While the 30-30 is a fine cartridge and I do like the lever gun, I've grown partial to the Marlin 1894C (.357 magnum). Inside 125 yards, the Buffalo Bore 180 grain LFN pretty much matches the 30-30. At 7.5 pounds, it is not difficult to carry. Ammunition is similar in price to the .223 loads and it has the plus of also working in a revolver, or semiautomatic pistol.

DMacLeod
April 16, 2008, 05:18 AM
I only have 2 deer rifles left that I wanted to keep. One is a 742 in 30-06 and the other is a model 94 (pre 64). Over the years I've tried a few different rounds, 7mm-08,270,308. These were brought to camp along with my 06 and 30-30. (it's always nice to have an extra rifle incase something goes wrong)

The 30-30 has always done it for me especially in the 94. We don't have long shots with 200 yds being the outer stretch. 20 to 40 yds is more common and sometimes closer than that as it is pretty thick up there.

If a hunter knows his limitations the 30-30 is more than adequate.

qajaq59
April 16, 2008, 05:47 AM
Have you ever noticed that you rarely see a lever 30-30 at the range? Not until just before deer season anyway. Then they're all over the place.

Pilot
April 16, 2008, 06:08 AM
I actually reload for 30-30 and it was my standard deer rifle when I lived in PA. I don't use it much in Colorado, but I do take it to the range now and then. The Marlin 336 is quite accurate with my handloads and a great brush/Whitetail Deer combo.

Jack O'Conner
April 16, 2008, 06:27 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/mediumwhitetailbuck-1.jpg

This photo shows what the 30-30 does best. That is, a deadly deer rifle that has moderate recoil, affordable ammo, easy to carry all day in rough country.

Jack

Lawyer Daggit
April 16, 2008, 07:47 AM
TV emphasis now is on M-16's rather than the lever action of western movie fame. This will accept sales in some quarters.

There are also literally millions of serviceable lever actions out there that are doing sterling duty every year. They are far from defunct.

jlchucker
April 16, 2008, 08:29 AM
Unless you're from California where the deer are too armor plated for a 30-30 to kill. I'd be curious as to what kind of California deer is too tough for a 30-30. Seems like the posts from every state in this thread so far indicate that the rest of the US has far more fragile deer. :D

Nevertoomanyguns
April 16, 2008, 10:45 AM
No its not to small, in fact its perfect for where I hunt. Its hard to get a shot further than 100 yards where I hunt, and the ole 30-30 fits the bill. Easy to carry all day. One shot on this guy he was 30 yards away, rattled him in from on the ground, DRT at the shot. 201 lbs dressed 11 pts. Speer 170 grain flat nose handloads and williams peep sight.

I'm sure the 30-30 will kill California bucks the 30-30 has been used here to take moose and many of our bucks push 300 lbs or more live weight and they fall to the 30-30.


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2146/1000275tq9.jpg

whitefish
April 16, 2008, 11:28 AM
My dad passed down a 1954 Marlin 336C in 30-30 when I was a teenager and I will be using it to teach my son and daughter how to hunt. One day, its going to be passed down to them as well.

I also like the fact that I can find 30-30 ammunition absolutely everywhere and cheap.

I want to try and handload a stoughter bullet like the new 170 grain partition and try it for short range elk. Wayne Van Zwoll had an interesting article in my #6 Edition Nosler Reloading manual about big game hunting with the old thuddy thuddy.

sureshots
April 16, 2008, 06:52 PM
When the next deer season rolls around and I go to my gun safe. I'm going to reach right on past the 243,270,308,30-06 cal. rifles that I own and come out with my trusted Marlin 336, 30-30 Cal. rifle. If it was good enough for whitetail back than,its good enough now.

publius
April 16, 2008, 09:33 PM
I've got a 30-30 and it's a great gun. Usually use a scope equipped bolt gun though because I don't want to see the buck of a lifetime at 200 yds and be holding my "cool and nostalgic" 30-30.

Doyle
April 17, 2008, 08:30 AM
I've got a 30-30 and it's a great gun. Usually use a scope equipped bolt gun though because I don't want to see the buck of a lifetime at 200 yds and be holding my "cool and nostalgic" 30-30.

Switch to Hornady LeverEvolution ammo and you can take that shot. I sight mine 3" high at 115 yds (happens to be the lenght ouf our home-made range) and that puts me right on at 200 and about 3" low at about 230 yds. They leave the barrel just a little faster than a standard round-nosed bullet but they retain their speed MUCH better.

Jack O'Conner
April 22, 2008, 08:36 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/bullelkWinchester.jpg

This photo shows what a careful and patient hunter can accomplish. Clearly, neither the bull nor this hunter read current hunting magazines or they'd know that 30-30 bullets bounce off any animal larger than jack rabbits. :)

Jack

humanitarian2112
April 23, 2008, 01:22 AM
yes

jamaica
April 23, 2008, 11:50 AM
Jack, that rifle looks just like my fathers 30-30 which I am fortunate enough to still have. With it I killed my first deer, with my first shot with his gun. He said, " Take a fine bead.". He didn't waste ammo shooting paper.

It would be interesting to know how many animals my Dads 30-30 has brought down. It had been around a long time before I ever got to shoot it.

jhgreasemonkey
April 24, 2008, 08:33 PM
I think Jack OConner said it all
You know every hunting season one of the older guys I hunt with uses an old beat up 30-30 and he has honestly killed more deer than me or any of my buddies could ever hope for. Yet we all use 7mm rem mags, .270's, 30-06's, .300 mags, wsm's etc. You know for more range and power.......lol :o
That makes us better hunters right? :D

BIGR
April 24, 2008, 09:37 PM
Years ago on one my first deer hunt a four point buck fell to the crack of a pre 64 model 94 winchester chambered in 30-30 with iron sights. What else could a hunter ask for. The 30-30 is plenty for deer, but through the years we have wanted all the power we could get.....kinda of like cars..I always wanted the most powerful one. Many game animals have been taken with that fine caliber. I don't think its gone just yet. It will probably outlast some of these new super dopper blastem calibers as they pass away like a fart in a whirlwind....:D

mesabi
April 25, 2008, 12:06 AM
animals havnt changed... why should everything else.

robhof
April 25, 2008, 09:14 AM
I've shot prairie dogs with a 30-30 contender pistol. Worked as well as the 223, only a lot more damage. I used 160 cast with gas checks at 75 yds.

dalegribble
April 25, 2008, 04:38 PM
I saw them take a full grown buffalo with the 30/30 on some hunting show with 1 shot. I was impressed.

leathermanwave
May 1, 2008, 06:20 PM
Read my sig.:D

.300H&H
May 1, 2008, 07:34 PM
I'd much prefer to be in a situation of hunting in the woods with a 30-30 and being challenged to stretch out the 30-30's performance to beyond 100 yds....
than to be in the situation of carrying a .300 Win.Mag in the woods and being challenged to shoot a smallish deer that's just 50 yds. away.;) It's easier to get closer than to back up...


The 30-30 is very versatile. Most of my shots <about 99%> will be at a range of 200yds or less. The 30-30 is also a gentle round ie. more power and range and less recoil than a 44mag. A lever gun also allows a quick follow-up shot.

sureshots
May 2, 2008, 06:50 AM
.300H&H has A very good point. When is A 30-30 not enough?

mikenbarb
May 2, 2008, 07:49 AM
Never seen an A-Bolt in 30-30 but I got an old Savage 340c bolt action in 30-30 and I use it every deer season in Pa. I shoot the Hornady Leverevolution and its deadly out to 200yds. The gun didnt cycle flat or roundnose too well and I was a happy camper when Hornady came out with them.:D +1 to Hornady for thinking of us.

mikenbarb
May 4, 2008, 03:34 PM
Dalegribble, I saw the same show. It was on OLN and the show is called "The One". He took a 1500# Bison @100yds with a lever action 30-30 with open sights. The shot placement was rite at the base of the neck and the BIG animal dropped like a rock when the gun went off. I was amazed that a 30-30 did that at that range. I guess with the rite shot anything is possible.

remjeep75
May 5, 2008, 12:28 AM
god bless the 30-30

rburch
May 5, 2008, 01:41 AM
When I hunt by the powerline on our land and actually have the chance for a 100 yard shot I use my dad's 30-30 Winchester 1895, It's spot on too.

But where I hunt most, a 30 yard shot is the rare long shot, and I have a Marlin 1894 levergun in 44mag. I got one with it last year about 20 feet away, there was a doe in front of me, and he was behind me. He knew I was there and tried to go past me anyway:rolleyes:

.300 H&H I agree with most of what you say, but my dad's 30-30 kicks harder than my 44mag, may be the differences in the guns though.

Sorry to thread jack a bit.

I think the 30-30 is one of the best all around medium game rounds, if not the best.

cole k
May 5, 2008, 04:08 PM
Is a 30-30 to small? Heck NO! No 30 caliber is too small at appropriate ranges.
I have been hunting for almost 50 years and I have never been without a 30-30 Marlin and I do not plan on being without one. When I’m hunting the thickets or running with the dogs a 30-30 is my go to rifle.
With LeverEvolution ammo the 30-30’s range has been extended to over 200 yards. If the only big game you hunt is deer the 30-30 with cover 90% of your needs.
Rimmed cartridges do not feed very well in bolt actions but I have seen Winchesters, Remingtons, Savages, Stevens and Marlins chambered for the 30-30. I have never seen a Browning bolt action chambered for a 30-30 but they may have 60 – 100 years ago.

joe poteat
May 7, 2008, 09:07 PM
Wife got me win 30-30 in 1962 ( $50 new) while stationed in Nfld. Shot 4 moose 500-800 # (meat hunter). Used 170gr silvertips. One shot each. Open sights 50-100 yds. Stationed there 4.5 yrs. Never shot a deer with it! Use 30-06 win mod 70.

Jack O'Conner
May 9, 2008, 06:59 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/forky4fin.jpg

Here is yet another muley I toppled with my 30-30. By now, you guys must be getting bored with my photos and tales of 30-30 success.

Jack

guntotin_fool
May 20, 2008, 01:49 AM
When I hunt by the powerline on our land and actually have the chance for a 100 yard shot I use my dad's 30-30 Winchester 1895, It's spot on too.


ahhh really, are you sure its not a 30-40 1895 or a 3030 1894? 1895 never came in 3030.


People on here think a .223 is a manly cartridge to hunt deer with, but claim the 30-30 is weak and under powered. Hmmmmm makes my innards giggle....

Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500

.223 55 PSP 1282 921 648 442 295 197
.30-30 150 SP CL 1902 1296 858 565 399 316
.30-30 170 SP CL 1827 1355 989 720 535 425

Major Dave (retired)
August 22, 2008, 01:26 PM
FYI, 7x57, 175 gr. factory load is 240 fps faster than the 170 gr. factory load for 30-30. Both loadings have those big, blunt round nose bullets with lots of exposed soft lead.

7x57was used early 1900's (before eargesplitten loudenboomer magnums were available) to kill elephants (by "Karamojo Bell, of Britain).

Teddy Rooseveldt and the Rough Riders were so impressed with 7x57 at San Juan Hill (1898) that he came back home and pushed for the development of the .30-06.

Wonder how 7x57 would work on armor plated California deer?!!!

Why did I buy that .270 WSM?

Yellowfin
August 22, 2008, 03:32 PM
Question: was the 8mm Mauser an intended upgrade or a concurrent/alternate development alongside the 7x57? Why do we see so many more 8mm Mausers than 7?

Major Dave (retired)
August 22, 2008, 03:47 PM
I don't know if 8x57 was concurrent, or an upgrade.

But the reason why you see more 8x57's, is that they were used in both world wars by the German military, whereas the 7x57 was used only by Spain, in Europe, plus the armies of several small South American countries, none of which were involved in major wars.

In other words, 8x57 was issued by the millions, but 7x57's were issued to only small armies.

the 7/8x57 family of cartridges gave rise to the 6mm Rem (.243x57) and the .257 Roberts (.257x57).

In Europe, the 5.56x57 (.223x57) is loaded to almost 4,000 fps with 55 gr bullets. The equal (or better) to the .220 Swift!

So, all the "x57 family" needs is a .264x57 (6.5mmx57), and a .338X57', to be complete. The 6.5x55 Swede negates the need for the 6.5X57, and the .338 niche is already pretty well covered, so I doubt that there will be any more X57's.

Yellowfin
August 22, 2008, 05:08 PM
I know the Swede was put in a Mauser action and directly inspired by the 8x57, but is it a new base cartridge by itself or is the 2mm less length from reforming the case of the x57?

KY Jim
August 23, 2008, 01:44 AM
"IMO, a lot of the bum rap against the .30-30 is more from the sights on "as issue" lever actions. Rather difficult to aim accurately with them, compared to peep sights or scopes."

Somebody should've told the Muley My dad shot at 200 yards with his open sighted Model 94 Winchester that he didn't know and my dad put 2 out of 3 into him and missed the 3rd because the deer fell down from the other two he was hit with. BTW my dad's 94 was in another good deer cartridge that has faded away 32 Win Spcl I still have that gun, it was his pet rifle. The casing is a 30-30 necked up to a .321 diameter bullet they are pretty much identical in all other ways.
Jim

Wildebees
August 23, 2008, 04:48 AM
People like a big kick and a loud bang; and each one to his own. Never mind that when hunting you wonder why you can not hear the wounded animal fleeing through the bush.... unless the hunter believes Magnums do not wound!

The newest motivation for magnum rifles is that you can take your gemsbok at 500 yards plus (one hears of 700 yards shots) out in the Kalahari - that is if you can read the wind and mirage accurately.

Do your research into the velocity and energy left in the 300 WM or 7mm Rem M projectile at 600 yards. What has become of that "hard-hitting" Magnum?

Your 30-30 does better at 200! So, just plan your approach and stalk better, and your bullet shall strike truer too.

Fat White Boy
August 23, 2008, 02:57 PM
My .30-30 is a boltie- Savage model 340. I put a 4X scope on it. It shoots just fine. I have been working on a load using a 110g bullet. I have the velocity up to over 2500 FPS.

Sarge
August 23, 2008, 03:26 PM
I did kill a decent buck at 235 yards or so with a peep sighted 94 a few years ago, centered the shoulder sockets, and it swatted him down like he'd been hit with a hammer.

You've got to have pretty good eyes to milk precision out of a set of buckhorn sights, but it can be done. The accuracy which this cartridge is capable of can be downright surprising.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x187/SargeMO/110307group94AE.jpg

There's nothing wrong with the 30 WCF at all.

CraigC
August 23, 2008, 04:33 PM
The .30WCF is a great cartridge that is as viable today as it was over 100yrs ago. If it weren't, I wouldn't have three of them with more surely to come. The 170gr jacketed loads penetrate like there is no tomorrow. The only thing that has changed in those hundred years is popular perception and perceived "needs". As in the "need" to snipe at deer at 500yds. That "need" only exists in the dreams of most hunters.