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View Full Version : best way to get FA M-16??


predator86
April 2, 2008, 11:50 PM
a friend of mine just got included in his family's trust fund (lucky ****) and recently came upon a large sum of money, what would be the best (financial) way to get a full auto AR/M-16??

shaggy
April 3, 2008, 08:22 AM
Buy one from a reputable dealer :confused:



Not sure what you're looking for here - brands/manufacturers to consider? A good C3 dealer? How the transfer process works? Forms of ownership (individual, corp,trust)?

VUPDblue
April 3, 2008, 09:33 AM
Buy one from a reputable dealer

+1

James K
April 3, 2008, 08:07 PM
There are some AR-15's out there that were purchased by police departments and resold to individuals before the 1986 registration ban. Those are the best bet. Tell him to be very careful not to buy an AR-15 with a Registered DIAS* or lightning link, especially those with the part registered in 1986. Most are junk and if/when they break or wear out, they are the registered part and NOT replaceable without jumping through all the NFA hoops again. The gun becomes just another semi-auto AR-15 (with some FA parts that could be questionable to BATFE).

I don't think you will find an actual M16 on the market; the government never released any and there has been no amnesty, so one would likely be considered stolen government property if it did turn up. I second the comments about buying from a reputable dealer, but many won't provide the details unless asked.

It is legal to own an unregistered (not serial numbered) DIAS or lightning link made before 1986, but it is illegal to have it in a rifle or to also have a rifle into which it will fit.

Jim

VUPDblue
April 3, 2008, 08:16 PM
I don't think you will find an actual M16 on the market; the government never released any and there has been no amnesty, so one would likely be considered stolen government property if it did turn up.

Sure there are...here's one (http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=12696&query=retrieval) In fact there are lots of Colt M16A1's and A2's on the market right now. I saw a NIB A2 sold just a bit ago for $23k IIRC.

I also disagree with the statement that RDIAS's and RLL's are junk. The RDIAS's are really stout little pieces. The part most likely to break is the "flapper" and they are easy to replace and not the serialed part. In fact, RDIAS's are almost more soughtafter right now than most AR15 conversions. The going price for RDIAS's that I've seen is upwards of $13k, and most conversions are selling for less than $10k. Now if you are talking about DIAS's that are married to the rifle (this is rare in the AR world) then I wouldn't want one of those. YMMV

predator86
April 4, 2008, 04:30 AM
he found a dealer this morning

that means that i dont have to do his homework for him anymore:D i cant say for sure but i think he is going with a FA AK-47 so he can put some of his trust fund check on his house.....i think that is a much better idea than him buying a weopon and a new car, thankfully he is smarter than most people i know, he just needs somebody to tone down his compulsive spending habits....

shaggy
April 4, 2008, 09:43 AM
Jim, I'm going to have to disagree with you on RLL's and RDIASs being "junk". Having owned all three types of FA AR15/M16's (receiver, sear, and link) I can honestly say my preference is for the RDIAS. Even an aluminum one can outlast a receiver gun. Although its rare, the trips on the RDIAS can break and wear out, but they are a replaceable part, and subject to no more or less stress than the sear in a receiver gun. Similarly, they can be replaced to alter the timing if necessary. A steel body RDIAS can definitely outlast a standard receiver gun. Moreover, if you beat up the lower in whichthe RDIAS is installed youcan simply replace the lower receiver with any currently made AR15 receiver. Once properly installed and timed, reliability with a sear is excellent.

While the RLL is a little less reliable due to the wear and eventual bending of the trip on the link, the trip levers on the link are replaceable parts also, and even if installed in the gun can be changed in a matter of seconds. The body, or serialized piece of the RLL, have been known to eventually break, but KNS is now making a steel reinforcement plate for the RLL body which will prevent breakage.

It is legal to own an unregistered (not serial numbered) DIAS or lightning link made before 1986, but it is illegal to have it in a rifle or to also have a rifle into which it will fit.

Not exactly true. Its illegal to possess an unregistered sear made after 1981. BATFE promulgated a rule in 1981 that sears made after that date had to be registered, thus putting into question the legality of mere possession of unregistered sears made prior to the 1981 ruling. The one federal circuit court that has addressed that specific issue noted that the BATFE didn't have the authority under the NFA to issue the 1981 ruling "grandfathering" unregistered sears made prior. The only possible effect BATFE could have had with the 1981 ruling, according to the court, was to provide an amnesty and free registration period for sears made prior to the 1981 ruling which necessarily ended at the May 1986 registration cutoff. This decision clearly divided the world of sears into two types - registered and unregistered, and all but invalidated the 1981 ruling as a potential defense to posession of an unregistered sear made prior to 1981.

Even if you go by BATFE's old rule and completely disregard the above case, its important to understand that the burden of proof was still on the possessor of the unregistered sear to show it was made prior to 1981. Since there's no serial number on an unregistered DIAS and no way to definitively link it to a date of manufacture, one possessing an unregistered sear he claims was made prior to 1981 would still be in serious jeopardy of a criminal conviction.

Legion2600
April 4, 2008, 12:52 PM
What Shaggy and VUPDblue said.

Why did I get a rDIAS? www.Brpguns.com XMG beltfed. 'nuff said.

James K
April 4, 2008, 03:24 PM
Many DIAS's were well made, but when the registration requirement loomed, some companies started making them out of cast iron, aluminum or whatever just to get them out and make some money. I have seen one fail after ten rounds. It was those I called, rightly I think, junk.

As to an aluminum one standing up, I would have to see that. Those things take a beating from the steel hammer and the steel bolt carrier, and I don't see how anything but hard steel could possibly work for more than a few rounds.

Jim

David Hineline
April 6, 2008, 12:20 AM
You realize of course that the receivers are aluminum, and now some are plastic,

You should look at a Steyr Aug, and the FN P90gun hammer trigger trigger sear, all plastic now.

Plastic is the new Aluminum which was the new steel.