View Full Version : cane guns
March 24, 2008, 05:55 PM
Does anyone recall the old shotguns that were made to look like a cane? I want one REALLY bad, but can't find one...I've searched high and low.
Once I find one, what exactly do I have to do through ATF? I know it's considered an "any other weapon" or however they term it, and has to be registered through them. I don't agree with it, but that's how it is.
Where can I find one of these?
March 24, 2008, 06:05 PM
There ARE supposed to be a few modern manufacturers, but I haven't heard of any specific ones, so your best bet would be to contact some of the various Class 3 dealers to find out if they have any in stock. The originals are contraband unless they were registered before the cut-off, but most of them weren't, and there's no way to get an original "on paper" now. The process is the same as for any other AOW (forms, photos, LEO sign-off, etc.) but the transfer tax is only $5, instead of the $200 for things like suppressors, FAs, SBSs and SBRs, etc.
March 24, 2008, 06:06 PM
I would say haunt and ask on the nfa sections of all the popular forums ect . also check subguns forum since they have a lot of dealers .
As to what you have to do well do some research there too .. you may want to purchace on a trust or corperation standing rather than a personal one . Its more hoops to form the corperation or trust , but less to do the purchace , you pays your nicle and takes your chances lol the tax is the same in any case. I have to say tho that a caingun aow would be way down my list for getting any nfa firarm .
March 28, 2008, 12:25 PM
The shotgun you're describing would be considered an AOW because it has a bore/barrel size greater than .5" and is not explicitly for "sporting purposes".. An easy test to qualify a weapon as 'sporting' is to ask yourself if it is something that you would take hunting...
So with that said:
You can go about it several ways.
1. Try to find a C2 SOT that can make the shotgun in question. This would cost you a pretty penny, but if you did the engineering it might be a little cheaper. The C2 SOT can make it (and if out of your state) can Form 3 it to your dealer in your state then it will Form 4 to you for a $5.00 stamp.
2. Somehow find one out there, and get it Formed (either 4 or 3) to your dealer and then Form 4'd to you. Hypothetically, if you're in TN and the gun is in TX on a Form 4, then it will be a $5.00 tax from TN to TX (between dealers) then another $5.00 tax to you on a Form 4. If it’s on a Form 3 then it transfers between dealers tax free.
Machineguns are the only items that a C2 can make that CANNOT be transferred to a private citizen. AOW's, SBS, SBR, and Suppressors do NOT apply to the 1986 ban. Even Destructive Devices can be constructed and transferred providing the C2 has the appropriate SOT status. A Class 2 SOT can make/register to you the AOW you desire.
If you're new to NFA, to transfer the item to you, you have 3 options:
1. Startup a Corporation or Limited Liability Company (not recommended as you have to file tax returns every year. After a couple years of filing a 0 return, the IRS will begin to raise eyebrows).
2. Construct a 'Trust'. This is the most viable and more recommended way of doing things. You can go about it by using Quicken Will Maker to form a Simple Trust, but Quicken does not leave room for special circumstances and is not very NFA/Firearm friendly as there are special rules one must adhere to in bequeathing them to heirs. Google 'NFA trust attorney'. It will lead you to some very good attorneys. David Goldman with Wood, Atter, & Associates out of Jacksonville, FL (http://www.woodatter.com) is a GREAT choice. He's EXCEPTIONALLY knowledgeable about NFA (due to the rules of NFA being Federal, State boundaries bear little to the trust’s wording. So you can use David even if you live in TX). A NFA Trust should cost in the neighborhood of $450.00. This is a one time expense, that’s good for life, and you can continue to transfer new acquisitions to the trust as time goes by.
3. Transfer the device to you as an individual. This carries some plus sides, and some very real negatives. The plus is that being you are the transferee on the Form 4, it belongs to you and no other entity. The downside is with this method there are several additional requirements:
a. You will have to have the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (i.e. your Sherriff, Governor, District Attorney, Chief of State Police, a Judge with Powers of Arrest, or in some area’s the County’s Mortician or Medical Examiner) sign two Form 4's certifying he has no knowledge you will do anything illegal with the item in question. This is easier said than done. About 90% of CLEO's will not sign the Form 4's outright refusing to do so.
b. Once you have the CLEO sign-off, you must have 2 pass-port photos made and attached to the duplicate Form 4's.
c. Have the Sherriff’s Department or the Local Police Department make two fingerprint cards. This HAS to be done by a LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.
Finally when all this is complete, you must mail all this off to the NFA Branch along with your transfer tax payment and then the wait begins. The buggar of it is, Individual Form 4's take several weeks longer (by average) to be approved than Entity Form 4's, as they do a VERY INDEBTH background check on you.
This process you will have to repeat EACH AND EVERY time you want to acquire additional NFA items (after all.. 1 AOW or 1 Suppressor is NEVER enough).
Corporate F4's and Trust F4's have an average approval return time of about 30 days. Individual returns have been averaging about 90, God only knows the time required for a First Timer. My first F4 took 3 months. The other 5 have taken less than 30 days and those have been Corporate F4’s at that.
Good luck brother! Hope you find your cane-gun. They are rare, and will be expensive when/if you find it. Cane guns are typically antiques and will cost you several thousand to acquire.
If I were you I would put WTB adds on all the popular forums, pay your $5.00 and post a 90 day add on www.subguns.com, and ask everyone I meet in the industry. Just my 2 cents.
Some of the best NFA Forum Sites outthere are:
3. www.TheFiringLine.Com (this site)
5. www.subguns.com (copious amounts of WTS & WTB adds)
There is also a site that has a long, hard to spell, German name, Strum-somthing-of-the-other, I cant remember how to spell it and I am not at my home computer right now to give you that link as well... People here might know what I'm talking about...
June 25, 2008, 03:09 PM
Your best bet to find one is going to your local NFA dealer and have them find one for you, a buddy of mine is looking for the same thing so if you find out where to get one please let me know.
June 25, 2008, 06:27 PM
http://sturmgewehr.com/ has more ads/audience than others...
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