Do you tumble your rounds after you load them?

[DaveInPA]

I've read a couple of places about people tumbling their finished rounds after they're done loading them before boxing them up. Do you do this? Why or why not?

[BigJimP]

No, what I do is lay them out on a terry cloth towel - and roll them around under my hand to get any residual case lube off of them - and then I run every round in and out of a case gague before I drop them in a box.

I don't know that its patently unsafe to run a finished round thru a tumbler - but I wouldn't be comfortable doing it.

I use case lube on all calibers - even with carbide dies - it just makes the press run a lot more fluidly - so getting the case lube off is the only issue.

[mrawesome22]

I did it to some rounds I made before I got my tumbler just to pretty them up. All went well. No kabooms and they all shot great.

[thmpr]

I normally clean the cases after I resize and trim through the Vibrator unit. Once thats done, off to priming and full reload.

[WSM MAGNUM]

Yes, I have been tumbling 100-200 finished rounds all at once in my tumbler. Why? To get the last bit of lube off and for the final polish. There is no risk of any of the rounds going off because it takes a hard sharp blow to the primer to do that. The rounds rolling around the tumbler would not do that.

[DaveInPA]

Just to be clear I only load handgun rounds with carbide dies and do not use any case lube.

[swmike]

I tumble my finished rounds for about 15 minutes, 200 at a time, to remove remaining lube or finger smudges, etc. I use fresh corncob media and a little Nu-Finish Car Polish. Leaves the cases nice and clean. Also, they don't tarnish as quickly if they remain in storage for any length of time.

As for KaBooms in the tumbler or altered performance, I've done this for about 30 years now. No issues. Rounds that have been tumbled for a couple of hours (on purpose for testing) chrono the same (Same speed,spread, and SD) as rounds that were loaded the same way.

15 minutes is all I need to give a quick final clean and polish so I see no need for longer.

[Alleykat]

I only tumble bottleneck cases that've been lubed, and just for a few minutes.

[long rider]

Lyman instruction guide for turbo tumblers.
Important safety information.
Lyman says, under no circumstances should
live ammo or primed cases be tumbled.
well you guys who tumble live ammo must be
NUTS , you only make one mistake scary:eek::eek:

[jamaica]

No.

[TexasSeaRay]

Lyman says, under no circumstances should
live ammo or primed cases be tumbled.

Five'll get you ten that a lawyer at or for Lyman wrote that, and not a reloader at Lyman.

So how do we explain Winchester, Federal, CCI, Hornady, Remington, PMC, et al, who all tumble and clean their freshly loaded factory ammo?

Are reloads somehow more unstable than factory loads?

Jeff

[Don H]

well you guys who tumble live ammo must be
NUTS , you only make one mistake scary
Well, since most of the manuals for the firearms I have say not to use reloads, I guess I just love living doubly dangerously by tumbling those reloads I'm not supposed to be using. :p

[Big Caliber]

Why? My components are clean before they reach the seating die.

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I have been using a vibratory cleaner to clean shells for 25 years without any problems. I do not, however, use my cleaner to remove lube from the cases. Removing lube just shortens the life of the media too much. Instead, I take finished cartridges with lube still on them and wash them in gasoline, let them dry on a towell, and then clean them in the vibratory cleaner. Media lasts much longer that way. I never did like cleaning cases prior to loading; media gets stuck in the primer pockets. Take the finished rounds (after lube is removed) and put them in the machine for an hour or whatever it takes, and they come out looking like new factory ammo.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[CPTMurdoc30]

under no circumstances should
live ammo or primed cases be tumbled.


I just go with this. and I have only one rifle with a manual. It did not say a single thing about reload just said to use quality ammo. The rest of my rifles are either too old or did not come with it in the first place.

So I will glady listen to the pros on this one. I do not tumble loaded ammo. I just give the loaded ammo a quick wipe down before they go in the box. If I even do that most of the time I size deprim and from the press they go stright into the tumble for a 1 hour cleaning. This gets everything off and adds a little final polish to the case.

[10-96]

One of the reasons I don't tumble loaded pills is because of powder breakdown. I don't know how much jiggling around a ctg needs before powder starts to break down- I'm sure 10-20 minutes won't do it, but why take any chances that I might get distracted by having to run out and buy an ex-wife another car or house or something.

Hmm, now that I put it in writing- it looks like a ruther silly excuse not to tumble... but I'm still not going to do it.

[Alleykat]

Lyman instruction guide for turbo tumblers.
Important safety information.
Lyman says, under no circumstances should
live ammo or primed cases be tumbled.
well you guys who tumble live ammo must be
NUTS , you only make one mistake scary

Yeah, and don't shoot reloads through Glocks,don't tear tags off of pillows, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah.! :rolleyes:

[David Wile]

Hey 10-96.

The whole "powder break down" thing has been discussed and refuted many times before. It just does not happen, and loaded shells do not get set off in the cleaning process. It is simply a myth. And, yes, most all new firearms manuals state clearly that reloaded ammunition should not be used. That does not, however, stop most of us from reloading ammo safely. Don't worry about cleaning loaded ammo; try it, you'll like it.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[azredhawk44]

I have been using a vibratory cleaner to clean shells for 25 years without any problems. I do not, however, use my cleaner to remove lube from the cases. Removing lube just shortens the life of the media too much. Instead, I take finished cartridges with lube still on them and wash them in gasoline, let them dry on a towell, and then clean them in the vibratory cleaner.

Yeah, but my media costs me about $5 a year at the pet store, whereas gasoline would probably cost me a lot more!

I vibe-clean my dirty cases, then lube them for depriming and resizing, then vibe-clean the re-sized and unprimed cases to remove lube. After that is the primer, powder charge and bullet seating. If they somehow get goobered up during those stages, they will get a brief tumbling about 50pcs at a time.

That takes care of my dirty cases for me... after having my M1A gum-up from cases that I neglected to pull the lube off, I believe very strongly in clean cases!

[Alleykat]

If you ever have a static spark occur, while playing around with gasoline, buying new media will be the least of your worries. :rolleyes:

[Sevens]

A couple rules we could probably all agree to live by:
--If someone doesn't want to do it because it doesn't "feel" right, then not doing it is absolutely the right choice for them. Much like some folks always clean primer pockets and some don't, not everything has a hard & fast rule.

--Not every thing recommended or suggested by a manufacturer of ANY product is always the gospel, but you usually won't get in trouble if you choose to follow their advice. They write it that way to cover their ass, and yours. Even if it is ultra-conservative.

And one more that we may NOT all agree on:
--Gasoline should be used to fuel gasoline burning engines. Using it for any other purpose is asking for a phenomenal amount of trouble and a ridiculous risk with little payoff. Some things out there introduce a greater amount of risk than others. Gasoline is one of those things that doesn't go easy on you when you screw up.

[Dlr8]

Isn't powder coated to control the burn rate, and then its coated with an agent that reduces static electricity to prevent explosion.. seems to me that removing these coatings in a tumbler is not a very good idea, you could in theroy change your burn rate not to mention the static problem . In answer to your question ... No I don't tumble loaded rounds. If they somehow need cleaned I use Never Dull, it does a great job.

Dave

[Shane Tuttle]

Isn't powder coated to control the burn rate, and then its coated with an agent that reduces static electricity to prevent explosion.. seems to me that removing these coatings in a tumbler is not a very good idea, you could in theroy change your burn rate not to mention the static problem .

If this is the case, where does the coating go...out of the cartridge? It's still inside and wont' go anywhere anyway. I don't believe the coating gets removed to begin with. How much vibration, shakes, jiggles does powder gets exposed to from the time it's made, SHIPPING, handling of dealers, traveling to a consumers' home, moved from shelf to shelf, and THEN used?

15 minutes in a tumbler is the very least of my concerns...

I did try tumbling after reloading, but it just isn't that much in time savings. Taking a large towel and rub down several at a time by hand seems quicker than tumbling, sifting, and then rubbing them down anyway...

My $.02

[Edward429451]

Sometimes I tumble bullets before I load them. I always tumble the brass before loading.

I see no need to tumble loaded ammo. I've accidently tumbled a round or three here n there but not as a rule. I just give them a wipe down with a clean cotton cloth before they go into the box.

To remove lube?:rolleyes:

[Dlr8]

each granule of powder is coated much like a pill, if you somehow remove this coating it could change the burn rate in much the sameway as removing the time release coating on a pill.. If you think moving something around has the same effect as a tumbler then put your empty cases in a bucket add some media and drive around with them in your car ...... see how clean they get..... anyone can do what they want if someone feels good about tumbling live rounds then feel free, I am not here to change that ... my comments are to the poster... do I tumble loaded rounds ... why or why not ... Will a tumbler remove this coating ... don't know don't care, to me common sense would imply yes.. since that is what a tumbler is designed to do, clean by means of creating vibrations using media as an abrasive, it seems reasonable to expect the same thing to happen inside a case using the powder as a media, as it does on the outside using corncob or walnut as a media

This kinda explains what I am saying http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokeless_powder

[Shane Tuttle]

Quoted from wikipedia: Fast-burning pistol powders are made by extruding shapes with more area such as flakes or by flattening the spherical granules. Drying is usually performed under a vacuum. The solvents are condensed and recycled. The granules are also coated with graphite to prevent static electricity sparks from causing undesired ignitions.

And have you ever tried to remove a graphite coating from heavy machinery? Believe me, it isn't a job for the lazy...

Once the coating is on, it isn't going anywhere from being tumbled for a few minutes...

[drail]

Tumbling loaded rounds has got to be the most anal thing in reloading. After 5 or 6 rounds are fired your gun is going to be fouled anyway so what are you gaining or preventing?

[Don H]

Removing case lube. I use a progressive press (usually) and do all the steps at once.

[snuffy]

each granule of powder is coated much like a pill, if you somehow remove this coating it could change the burn rate in much the sameway as removing the time release coating on a pill.. If you think moving something around has the same effect as a tumbler then put your empty cases in a bucket add some media and drive around with them in your car ...... see how clean they get..... anyone can do what they want if someone feels good about tumbling live rounds then feel free, I am not here to change that ... my comments are to the poster... do I tumble loaded rounds ... why or why not ... Will a tumbler remove this coating ... don't know don't care, to me common sense would imply yes.. since that is what a tumbler is designed to do, clean by means of creating vibrations using media as an abrasive, it seems reasonable to expect the same thing to happen inside a case using the powder as a media, as it does on the outside using corncob or walnut as a media

This kinda explains what I am saying http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokeless_powder

Okay, I'll also use common sense. Just what is the abrasive inside a loaded round? The powder itself? And how much movement of the powder against itself is possible?

According to your wikipedia link, one of the additives to the nitrocellulose base to all smokeless powders is a plasticizer. That makes it much tougher to break or modify by force. Next time you reload a stick type powder, try to cut or break a single granual. It's some tough, hard stuff. So is a ball type or flake.

As far as the retardant coating being rubbed off, as stated above, where does it go? It's still in there, if it's rubbed off one granual, then could it not be transfered to another one?

Big Caliber ; Why? My components are clean before they reach the seating die.

You are a single stage reloader? Of course you have the option of wiping the lube off from each case before seating a bullet. Not so with us progressive reloaders. Once I fire up the 650, I don't stop till I'm out of components, and I seldom sit down to load less than a thousand of a particular caliber. For .223, wiping a thou cases free of lube is not my idea of fun. A trip through my vibratory tumbler for 20 minutes, cleans them of any lube and pretties them up for checking in a cartridge gauge before being boxed up.

Extensive testing has been done. Before/after pictures and microscopic analysis of powder granuals shows no change to the powder inside a tumbled, loaded, round. Further chronograph and target tests,(at the same time), shows no change in behavior.

[TexasSeaRay]

+10, Snuffy.

And by the way, I love your signature line(s). Give me dogs over people any day.

Jeff

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

Before you get too excited about the use of gasoline for cleaning purposes, perhaps you should consider a few things.

I only use about a quart of gasoline in an empty three pound coffee can to put loaded cartridges in to swish around and quickly remove the lube. In case you were never aware of it, gasoline is an excellent solvent for petroleum based products. Once I have finished with the gasoline, I pour it into an old Coleman fuel can which is re-labeled as "gas solvent." I will continue to use the same gasoline time after time until I need to add another quart to get the job done. After cleaning lubed cases with the gasoline, the removed lube and dirt settle to the bottom of the gas. When returning the gas to the storage can after a cleaning session, I stop pouring the gas in the can when I get down to the dirt and residue which I sprinkle on some vegitation I want to kill. Now I'm just guessing here, but I would imagine a gallon of gas would last me somewhere between a year or two for cleaning cases. That's pretty cheap cleaning in spite of today's gas prices.

Once having "washed" my cartridges in gasoline and having put the gas safely away, I put perhaps fofty or more cartridges in a towell to kind of clean and dry the gas from them. I close the towell around the cartridges, hold a towell end in each hand and let them roll from one end to the other and back by raising one hand and then the other. After that, I put them in the vibratory cleaner for polishing. I too, just like azredhawk44, like to have bright shiney cases.

AlleyKat noted, "If you ever have a static spark occur, while playing around with gasoline, buying new media will be the least of your worries." I would not disagree with his statement, but I would suggest that I am not "playing around" with the gasoline. As I said above, I only use about a quart of gasoline when cleaning cartridges or other things. Would a fire from a static spark or whatever be bad while cleaning things? Absolutely, no doubt about it. I would also suggest that a fire from a static spark or whatever while refueling your automobile would be even worse. Much worse actually. There is a lot more fuel in your car's tank and the underground tanks nearby than I use to clean things. Yet, in spite of the terrible possibilities of conflagration while refueling our cars, we somehow manage to do that on a daily basis without having many static sparks start a conflagration. There are risks in most things we do everyday. We simply learn to manage the risks in a safe and reasonable manner.

The whole powder breaking down from tumbling is an old myth. Snuffy noted, "Extensive testing has been done. Before/after pictures and microscopic analysis of powder granuals shows no change to the powder inside a tumbled, loaded, round. Further chronograph and target tests,(at the same time), shows no change in behavior." Snuffy is absolutely correct. Tumble or don't tumble your loaded cartridges based on what you think is best for you. Just don't think that tumbling your cartridges will make the powder inside deteriorate for some reason. It just is not true.

Finally, Drail said, "Tumbling loaded rounds has got to be the most anal thing in reloading. After 5 or 6 rounds are fired your gun is going to be fouled anyway so what are you gaining or preventing?" Drail, I am not certain what you are getting at here. I am guessing you are suggesting it is kind of silly to make ones cases all shiney when they are going to get dirty after shooting. If that is what you meant, I would not argue with you other than to say different folks have different ideas about what is neat and tidy. In azredhawk44's case, I think he tumbles his cartridges to get them very clean so they will function better in a semi-auto rifle. Nothing wrong with that. Then there are some who do just because they like to have bright shiney cases. That may be anal as you suggest, but there's nothing wrong with it. I have a friend who washes his car constantly and criticizes me because mine is not as clean as his. I don't fault him, but I do point out to him that my cartridges are cleaner than his.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Dlr8]

It would seem that at least one powder manufacture disagrees

Like I said, My answer is to the original poster, do I tumble loaded rounds.. no and this is why..

FROM: hpchelp@hodgdon.com

We do not advocate tumbling or vibrating completed ammo. There is the possibility of degrading the powder causing a high pressure situation.

Mike Daly
Customer Satisfaction Manager
The Hodgdon Powder Company Family of Propellants:
Hodgdon Smokeless powders
Pyrodex Muzzleloading Propellants
Triple Seven Muzzleloading Propellants
IMR Smokeless Powders
Winchester Smokeless Powders

Is it proof, don't know don't care.. You can make up your own mind. Before you start flaming the email, it was cut and pasted from another forum I found today.. do I have proof that this email is authentic? No I don't.. What is a shame is that someone will have to get hurt and then post it on the internet for anyone to believe that this could be dangerous, then there are those that will still choose to ignore it... Bottom line is stuff happens and the more people that tempt fate, the more likely it is going to happen.

[David Wile]

Hey Dlr8,

You have stated that you do not tumble loaded rounds because a Hodgdon employee indicated in an E-Mail they do not advocate the practice. If that is the case, then I wonder why you reload at all. After all, Remington, Winchester, S&W, Marlin, and every other manufacturer of new firearms I know all have manuals inside every firearm box that clearly states that the use of reloaded ammunition is not recommended. I cannot understand why you are so adamant in your believing the Hodgdon recommendation, but you choose to ignore the admonitions from the firearms manufacturers about reloading ammunition in total. Is there some difference here that is going over my head?

You speak about the shame of someone getting hurt by ignoring what you have cited from Hodgdon, and you go on to say, "Bottom line is stuff happens and the more people that tempt fate, the more likely it is going to happen." For some unknown reason, however, you do not give the same credence to the manuals included in new firearms which warn the new owner to not use reloaded ammunition. This is inconsistent with your take on tumbling loaded rounds, and I don't understand how you believe one warning but not the other.

Also, there are many folks on this and other forums who have reported many years of safely tumbling loaded ammo with no deleterious results. I understand that we all make our own choices in life, but your comments make it sound like anyone who disregards the Hodgdon warning is lacking in good judgement, while your ignoring the warnings of the firearms manufacturers is somehow OK in the good judgement department. Sorry, but that is just plain inconsistant in the logic department.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Dlr8]

geez why does everything have to turn into a flame .. I stated that I don't tumble loaded rounds and that if they need cleaning I used never dull, then I stated why I feel that way .... I had never seen or heard anything from a powder company until I did some looking today.... to me safety is my main concern when I handload... I personally have never even thought about tumbling a live round until I saw it posted here ... why .. because its one of those things I don't feel safe doing.. If you feel safe doing it have at, but don't try twisting my words to belittle my point... I don't tumble because,

1. I Never thought about doing such a thing, and I have a procedure that I already use
2. after reading the original post, and reading some replies it seemed to me you might change the burn rate of the powder ... so I looked into it, and found that it might be the case ... so I posted that
3 after getting flamed for posting a point of view .. because I am concerned about the posters and everyones safety, I looked into a little farther and found that copy of the email someone posted.
5.. I believe I posted that I don't know nor care if the warnings are valid, I just said they are there..
6. I reload because my reloads are safe and I feel safe using them ... I have been loading since I was a kid and have never had any type of issue

there are warnings with the tumblers themselves so it is said in this thread, which I didn't know about either until I read the thread ... so until a few days ago I had no knowledge what so ever of any warning of any type ..there are no inconsistent remarks what so ever

so we have a powder makers warning and a tumbler makers warning yet the only recourse is to attack me for pointing out one of them and twisting my words.. I hope this clears it up for you .. I don't intend it to be mean spirited, I am just attemping to make my position more clearly

I reload because I feel my reloads are safe,
I don't tumble because I have another procedure, and now I feel it might be unsafe... once again I don't know if it is or not... I just posted what I have found and what I found at least in my mind confirmed what I believed

[TexasSeaRay]

geez why does everything have to turn into a flame .. I stated that I don't tumble loaded rounds and that if they need cleaning I used never dull, then I stated why I feel that way

I hear you.

I guess when folks can't discuss the source, they have to attack it in order to try and either refute it or discredit.

My bottom line is pretty simple: What the hell does it matter?

Occasionally I'll toss some rounds in the tumbler for fifteen to thirty minutes, but more likely than not, if I need/want to slick them up, I'll stick 'em in the Zip Trim, grab a soft polishing cloth and go to town.

It IS a subject, however, that kinda got me thinking beyond the apparent--thus my string of "experiments." Reckon I'll finish 'em out, but damned if I want to discuss them anymore.

Jeff

[jmorris]

I always post load tumble my competition loads. It removes any granules of powder that may have stuck to the outside of the case. This speeds up the process of case gauging the ammunition.

FWIW my grandfather “post load tumbled” ammunition for his rifle behind the seat of his truck for longer than I’ve been alive so far and his always worked just fine.

[4sarge]

I tumbled some FMJ .223's to clean them up and they looked so nice.

Then I threw a batch of .223's loaded with the Barnes 50 gr varmint grenade to clean then up and proceeded to pack those large cavity hollow points with tumbler media!

About 3 hours of shaking and picking and I finally got those 75 cartridges cleaned out!

Don't tumble HP's.

[Dumpster Baby]

Bottom line on tumbling live rounds:

All the commercial ammo manufacturers do it to deliver shiny ammo, and they've done it BILLIONS of times with no problems. All that shiny commercial ammo is tumbled after it's loaded.

[TexasSeaRay]

Then I threw a batch of .223's loaded with the Barnes 50 gr varmint grenade to clean then up and proceeded to pack those large cavity hollow points with tumbler media!

About 3 hours of shaking and picking and I finally got those 75 cartridges cleaned out!

HA HA!!!

Oh how I agree.

Dumbest thing I did was decide to clean up some old Hydrashok 9mm by putting them in the tumbler . . .

I looked like an ugly dental hygienist and sounded like a sailor picking all that stinking corncob media out from around the little post in the hollow point with my dental tools.

Jeff

[Chiefs50]

I don't tumble my reloaded rounds. I remove any remaining traces of lubricant by wiping them with a cotton cloth dampened with mineral spirits. I do it this way because I don't have a tumbler.

[swmike]

I wonder how old and how much experience Mr. Daly has. The Company I retired from used to hire people fresh out of college and make them "Customer Satisfaction Managers". Their job was to answer a phone, fill out an on-screen form, and forward it to the appropriate department to be ignored.

It would seem that the "Theory" surrounding the practice of tumbling loaded ammo has more "Proof" on the side of "go ahead if you wish" than on the side of "don't do it, it will blow up, your dog will run away, your wife will have an affair with your best friend, your truck won't start, your rifle will blow up, and your daughter will runn off with a well pierced tattooed freak".

Those that do it don't, and haven't had issues and those that say don't do it never offer proof other than a lawyer inspired caution.

BTW, I wonder just how much movement of powder there is in a "Compressed Load" cartridge:confused: Since I usually load to 95% or more of the case capacity I seriously doubt that the powder is moving around much in those loads either.

The proof that this is a bad practice is as abundant as the proof that you will be prosecuted for using reloads for self defense. I believe the correct word is NONE!

[Alleykat]

Tumbling loaded rounds has got to be the most anal thing in reloading. After 5 or 6 rounds are fired your gun is going to be fouled anyway so what are you gaining or preventing?

Not removing case lube (by tumbling, or some other method) is the most asssssine things in reloading. (pretty close to anal, ain't it?:))