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Lurper
March 1, 2008, 01:14 AM
I find this rather amusing, so I thought I would share it:
I ride my bike daily or try to anyway. I have a route that is 10 miles or 20 depending on how I go. The first and last leg take me through the neighborhood.
I was riding today and was returning home. I was in the neighborhood about 2 blocks from home. I noticed that up ahead near the stop sign there were two young men. I'd guess that they were around 18 or so. For some reason, it struck me as odd because one was on a bike on the sidewalk and the other did not have a bike and had just stepped off of the curb into the street. My radar went off for some reason. I literally thought "this guy is gonna try to take my bike." I'm still about 30 yards or so away, it just doesn't feel right, but I continue on. I have a fairly expensive (about $1800) full suspension bike, but I'm sure he couldn't tell from where he was. Anyway as I get closer I can see him almost inperceptively edging into the street - he had to wait for a couple of cars to go through the stop signs. I decided that I was gonna blow through the stop sign (it's a 4 way) because something still seemed odd. I began pedaling and when I was about 50 feet away, I noticed that the skinny kid was locked onto me and as a approached, he began jogging backward and out into the street toward me. It became obvious pretty quickly that his intent was to intercept me. He closed the distance and when he got about 6 feet away, he happened to notice the 1911 on my side and the fact that I had my hand around the grip. I was thinking "this kid can't be that stupid." It was comical, when he noticed the gun, he did the Vaudeville shuffle minus the cane back over toward his friend. I kept my eyes on him the whole time, his friend busted out laughing and I said loud enough for him to hear "that's a good way to get yourself shot, bro."
I didn't turn into my place, because it was within sight and I didn't want them to see me. Instead, I went to the shopping center across the street and stopped. For a brief moment I thought about pulling out my cell phone and calling the police but didn't. I turned around, went back to the street and the kids were gone, so I rode home.
It was really strange, but I am certain of his intent. Just thought I'd share the experience. Also, please don't try to lecture me about brandishing. This was not a case of brandishing since I clearly felt threatened. Brandishing involves using a gun to threaten or intimidate when you are not threatened.

Boris Bush
March 1, 2008, 01:51 AM
Also, please don't try to lecture me about brandishing. This was not a case of brandishing since I clearly felt threatened. Brandishing involves using a gun to threaten or intimidate when you are not threatened.

No lecture from me. For once it is nice to see a post on this forum of a real life application of your right to use that legaly owned and carried pistol. One point it makes very clear is like most uses of the pistol in defense of ones self will NEVER go as you practiced at the range, and rarely does.

Good job! We can all learn something from your post, and that is to be aware of what goes on around you all the time.

Edward429451
March 1, 2008, 10:46 AM
Good job bro! You sent a good message to the slime. Chances are good that he wont ever try that again on anyone. You took a bite out of crime and helped your community. I think you're pistol paid for it'self and you've shown a profit.

MLeake
March 1, 2008, 04:05 PM
Awareness is a good thing to have, even more than a 1911. Nice going.

Glad you weren't hurt, and weren't forced to hurt anybody else.

langenc
March 1, 2008, 09:14 PM
The real purpose of CCW-to defend yourself.

Better to have had it when needed than home on the dresser even if you were just riding in the 'neighborhood'.

noahlewis
March 1, 2008, 10:11 PM
I started wondering why you didn't call the cops then and there. But after a second thought I realized your correct action of not calling the cops. Had you called they would have let the unsuccessfull criminals go free, then take your pistol, beat you up and arrest you.

oldbillthundercheif
March 1, 2008, 10:30 PM
Suspected attempted petty theft is not something I would feel much of a need to report, either. I'm usually all for reporting crimes as you can't catch them if you don't report them, but they didn't really get a chance to do anything here.

Good lord these punks have gotten lazy. Either that or they are too dumb to operate a pair of boltcutters.

I can't believe they picked you as their mark, Lurper. I understand that these types of dimwits can mistake age for infirmity, but I don't understand how they could take you for anything but a serious hardcase.

"Yeah, let's knock over the the beefy guy with the cold stare who has obviously picked up on our plan". Friggin rocket scientists.:D

woodland
March 2, 2008, 12:30 PM
noahlewis I started wondering why you didn't call the cops then and there. But after a second thought I realized your correct action of not calling the cops. Had you called they would have let the unsuccessfull criminals go free, then take your pistol, beat you up and arrest you.

Oh, that is helpful and mature. I just love the inteligent blanket statements people make.

Not sure about every state, but in my state he did nothing wrong. Had the police been called, he would have been interviewed, then the area would have been checked for the kids. If contacted they would have been checked for warrants and probably FIR'd ( a short report placing them in the area and the circumstances ). Unfortunatly, with what was told, there was no crime, so no, they would not be arrested. Those pesky things we have in this country called rights! There was no verbal threat or physical action aside from moving into the road towards another person. Although a reasonable person can deduce what was unfolding, and Lurper did and took a reasonable precaution, this does not meet the elements of a crime, or even an attempted crime. Had the punk said something like "give me the bike or I'll kick your butt" and/or tried to grab at him or the bike, then he would have crossed the line to where something could actually be done.

Having said that, I would still recomend calling the police. Where did they get the other bike? The police may have other reports already from similar incidents, and you could maybe provide the missing info to identify the punks. Your incident may just be a small piece of a bigger puzzle.

MillCreek
March 2, 2008, 12:35 PM
And some people think it is ridiculous that I feel a need to carry while on one of my five bicycles. Excellent account by the OP.

Edward429451
March 2, 2008, 12:38 PM
woodland, your comments are conflicting with your sig line. Better change it now.

woodland
March 2, 2008, 12:56 PM
woodland, your comments are conflicting with your sig line. Better change it now.

I am puzzled. What do you mean? It is a quote from Neo in the Matrix, when he he began to realize what he was capable of in the Matrix.

springmom
March 2, 2008, 04:31 PM
Well done, Lurper. You did what you needed to. Glad you're safe.

Springmom

Th0r
March 2, 2008, 04:50 PM
Interesting story.

If it was me I would of turned around and cycled like hell.

Lurper
March 2, 2008, 05:01 PM
If it was me I would of turned around and cycled like hell.
Excellent strategy. Let me explain why I didn't:
This is going to sound wierd to some, but I'm sure others have experienced it. It has happened to me before in confrontations I have been in. The phenomenon has always been accurate.
I knew from the time I saw the kid what was going to happen and that I would not be injured. It was like a precognative experience. Since I knew what the outcome would be, I wasn't worried about it. But I also felt no urge to avoid the confrontation. As I mentioned, it has happened before. I find it fascinating but cannot explain it.

Lon308
March 2, 2008, 05:30 PM
If it was me I would of turned around and cycled like hell.

I'm a retired cop & think that he did the right thing.

Turning around would have involved taking your eyes off the suspects and turning your back on the suspects. Those are violations of tactical rules and would have negated most advantages that Lurper had and could be setting himself up to get hurt.

Never, never turn your back on a suspect. (Just like they used to tell us in parachute Jumpmaster School, "Never turn your back on an open door".)

He was at 50 feet and closing. By the time that he got turned around, they could have continued to close the distance on him. They already had intent; this could have given them advantage.

kgpcr
March 2, 2008, 09:19 PM
Well Done!!

orionengnr
March 2, 2008, 09:52 PM
Suspected attempted petty theft is not something I would feel much of a need to report, either.

Since the OP states that the bicycle is worth $1600, this is not petty theft... and taken under duress, is not theft at all, but robbery/larceny, and probably agravated at that.

Difference between a misdemeanor and a felony.

ssilicon
March 3, 2008, 01:04 AM
Glad to hear it worked out ok. I do think you should have called the police though. Let them investigate. For all you know, the one who was on a bike may have stole that one, or they may match the description of suspects in other crimes or may even be wanted for something. Calling the police might have prevented the next cyclist from getting jacked like you almost did. Do your fellow citizens a favor and report criminals and suspicious activity too.

lanternlad
March 3, 2008, 01:10 AM
I think its better that you didn't call the cops because they would have investigated, the BGs might have learned who you were and decided to make vendetta out of it. As it is, they'll probably forget the whole thing in few days, and probably get shot when the try doing it to someone not as merciful as yourself. I doubt that they'll learn from this episode.

You might, however, report them anonymously as a "concerned citizen" who saw them trying to steal someone's bike...

Boris Bush
March 3, 2008, 01:11 AM
ssilicon

Thats all good in theory, but I chased off some punks trying to rob my neighbors one time. A pistol, and a Mag lite in hand I chased them off. Called the po po and they said. "we might get a car out there tonight". When one showed up 3 hours later he just drove by slow and took a look.

Not all po po care for the people. The last city I lived in as a civilian was alot better. A neighbor alerted me to a kid breaking into cars. I held him at gunpoint until the po po got there. He thanked me and sent me on my way.

I would guess it all depends on where you live.......

2cooltoolz
March 3, 2008, 02:06 AM
You did good!! Showed the idiot we are not all targets. He's lucky he walked away!! Good Job!!

Anchorage
March 3, 2008, 02:13 AM
PLEASE specify BICYCLE, when you said bike jack, I nearly had a heart attack ! I'm a motorcyclist...

then you said 1800 dollar bike, I was like, WOW cheap bike !

then I realized it was a bicycle.

you carry a 1911 when your ride a BICYCLE ? what kind of rig ? arent you sweating so much you rust the gun ? or is it a polymer 1911 ? :D

rb4browns
March 4, 2008, 12:16 AM
Excellent strategy. Let me explain why I didn't:
This is going to sound wierd to some, but I'm sure others have experienced it. It has happened to me before in confrontations I have been in. The phenomenon has always been accurate.
I knew from the time I saw the kid what was going to happen and that I would not be injured. It was like a precognative experience. Since I knew what the outcome would be, I wasn't worried about it. But I also felt no urge to avoid the confrontation. As I mentioned, it has happened before. I find it fascinating but cannot explain it.

You theory would make sense if you have been accurate about every time you have been hurt/injured in a confrontation as well. Otherwise it seems like overconfidence/underthinking combined with luck. Hindsight is always 20/20. Not trying to bash, just sayin'.....

Lurper
March 4, 2008, 01:06 PM
you carry a 1911 when your ride a BICYCLE ? what kind of rig ?
Galco IWB (Their copy of the Summer Special)

arent you sweating so much you rust the gun ?
I sweat and the gun occassionaly will get rust on it. But, it's a tool and it gets used a lot (about 32,000 rounds in 15 months). Like any tools, it requires maintenance. Besides, I must handle the thing 100 times a day at least.

You theory would make sense if you have been accurate about every time you have been hurt/injured in a confrontation as well.
Not to dismiss your point, but it's been 100% accurate so far. I have not been hurt or injured in a confrontation in 25+ years but have been in several (armed ones, not fist fights). It's not something that you can make happen, it just happens. Another noteworthy time was when I was in a car accident. When I regained consciousness, I realized I was trapped in the car (I was very claustrophobic as a child). But I also knew that I would be okay and felt totally calm. I guess when it fails me I'll die.

Desslock
March 4, 2008, 05:53 PM
Buy an old Huffy Sigma for those "bad neighborhood" rides...Next time someone tries that, ghost ride it right into their nether-regions. :D

rb4browns
March 4, 2008, 08:59 PM
I guess when it fails me I'll die.

LOL, fair enough.

bufordtjustice
March 5, 2008, 06:10 PM
I realize you had to make a decision in a hurry and, not being there, I won't second guess your decision. I would like to ask a question/ make a comment. I personally would have been concerned of having my back to them as I passed AND rolling through a stop sign. What was your field of view like? Given the facts you articulaated, I might have stopped short of them maintaining direction of travel, and challenged them if they approached me. You could always articulate you were slowing down to stop at the stop sign. As I said, that is not having the "lay of the land". Feel free to share a little more info.

NJ-Dirtrdr
March 6, 2008, 01:26 PM
LOL!!!

Lurper, I've seen most of your vids, and have learned an aweful lot from them, so thanks for the free instruction. Having said that, I guess these guys are clearly not privy to one of your chosen passions. I'll be expecting a video on "Accurate One-handed shooting from a Bicycle" in the near future.

It's probably a good thing these guys haven't seen your videos I guess. We don't need these scoundrels learning anything more than the tactics they absorb from MTV.

Actual question: I cycle as well, and find I cannot carry on the waist b/c my forward posture makes it print so bad. So I keep it in my camelback instead...which would clearly not be as worthwhile in this situation. I see you use a Galco IWB, but how is the printing or do you have a secondary cover garment

Stevie-Ray
March 6, 2008, 08:18 PM
I use a Glock 26 in an Uncle Mike's Kydex at 3 o'clock. I wear my safety vest over it, and had an occasion to simply lift the vest over the gun, once. That alone was enough to change the direction of a possible encounter.

My bike probably looks more expensive than it was, due to the disc brakes. It was only $500, but by God, it's mine.

Bogie
March 6, 2008, 08:27 PM
A while back, St. Louis' Forest Park had a plague of "golfers." These youts would show up near the course, carrying a golf club or two... They'd go for lone joggers or bicyclists... And they'd usually blindside 'em from cover.

You got VERY lucky.

Lurper
March 6, 2008, 09:08 PM
I personally would have been concerned of having my back to them as I passed AND rolling through a stop sign.
I was travelling west on the North side of the road. The 4 way stop was in front of me. They were on the west (opposite of me) side of the 4 way stop sign also on the north side of the street. So, I passed through the stop signs before I reached them.

Actual question: I cycle as well, and find I cannot carry on the waist b/c my forward posture makes it print so bad. So I keep it in my camelback instead...which would clearly not be as worthwhile in this situation. I see you use a Galco IWB, but how is the printing or do you have a secondary cover garment
Thanks for the compliment. I am not worried about printing, I carry in the open when I ride. That's what made it even more comical to me.


You got VERY lucky.
Not to sound arrogant, but I think he got way luckier than I did. :)

CrimsonZ28
March 7, 2008, 10:36 AM
In the case you are knocked off the bike and the perp grabs your bike and they both take off, how should this be handled? Obviously someone with a CCW knows not to begin wildly firing their weapon. Would this situation be grounds for using your weapon since, it would most definitely be a life threatening situation if the perps go as far as knocking you off your bike? Would there be a grey area pertaining to the fact that they are fleeing and no longer attacking you?

johngalt
March 7, 2008, 02:37 PM
How much trouble do you have with the police while open carrying on your bike?

I bicycle in the Cincinnati area, and have had a few events that make me want to carry. Unfortunately, around here, apparently the police have made it known that they will arrest anyone who does open carry on trumped up "inducing panic" charges, even though it is legal.

Any suggestions for dealing with the police? I've been considering trying to make an appointment with the town police chief to discuss it. I was thinking of describing the events, and that I intend to (legally) open carry on my bike, and that I would appreciate it if his officers were informed that it is legal.

I'm sure that he would try to dissuade me, but without being obnoxious about it, I want to explain that understand I am within my rights to do so; and even if unpopular, I don't need his permission or blessing.

Murdock
March 9, 2008, 01:11 PM
I knew from the time I saw the kid what was going to happen and that I would not be injured. It was like a precognative experience.

I've had this same experience in a few different contexts, but only one of these was an armed encounter. You know ahead of time how a threatening event involving a complex sequence of events is going to work out. Subjectively, I experienced a calming influence when this has occurred, which operationalized itself as confidence and resolve.

Having ruminated about this phenomenon at some length, I have come to believe that much of what some might label as "psychic" or "precognitive" is actually the product of a high-speed calculating mechanism in the brain that is tied to our sympathetic nervous system.

I'm glad to have had someone else articulate this kind of experience. Thanks.

Lurper
March 9, 2008, 01:24 PM
In the case you are knocked off the bike and the perp grabs your bike and they both take off, how should this be handled? Obviously someone with a CCW knows not to begin wildly firing their weapon. Would this situation be grounds for using your weapon since, it would most definitely be a life threatening situation if the perps go as far as knocking you off your bike? Would there be a grey area pertaining to the fact that they are fleeing and no longer attacking you?
That depends on the jurisdiction. If you shoot as he knocks you off of the bike, it probably won't be an issue. If you shoot as he rides away, it probably will. In some states (Texas, for example) there wouldn't be an issue either way probably. But, AZ does not allow lethal force in defense of property.

How much trouble do you have with the police while open carrying on your bike?
Short answer: none.

Any suggestions for dealing with the police? I've been considering trying to make an appointment with the town police chief to discuss it. I was thinking of describing the events, and that I intend to (legally) open carry on my bike, and that I would appreciate it if his officers were informed that it is legal.
Find an attorney who will take your case pro bono if you get arrested. Get yourself arrested, go through the trial, set a precedent so that it can't happen in other cities. :eek:

If open carry is legal, it should be legal. A confrontation with the cheif could be counter productive. Does your state have preemption? I would try to enlist the help of whatever pro gun organizations are in your area and see what they advise.

Rustic
March 9, 2008, 02:18 PM
Lurper, good to hear about someone bicycling to and from work, and congrats on giving that young fellow something to think about.

Strongarming a bike just blows my mind.

Nonetheless, all bicyclists are at the mercy of all motorvehicles. Make sure no one covets that 1911 enough to trash you for it. I am sure you've developed good survival skills in that environment, but hope you can benefit from safety in numbers.

CraigC
March 14, 2008, 02:40 PM
I also agree that you handled it properly. I probably would've done the same thing.


I knew from the time I saw the kid what was going to happen and that I would not be injured. It was like a precognative experience. Since I knew what the outcome would be, I wasn't worried about it. But I also felt no urge to avoid the confrontation. As I mentioned, it has happened before. I find it fascinating but cannot explain it.

That's mighty interesting. Never heard it described like that. I had a similar experience a few years ago as a field tech in a situation involving an enraged biker-type with a rifle. Somehow I just "knew" and didn't even let it ruin my day. Glad I was right!

thebaldguy
March 16, 2008, 07:30 PM
I have been in similar situations on my mountain bike around town. I try to stay alert for these situations. I have avoided some possible confrontations by avoiding them. I turn around, kick it in turbo mode, and avoid the potential problem. Peek over you shoulder as you split to see if they will chase you. If it takes a few extra minutes, so be it. It's not worth the hassle.

FrontSight
March 16, 2008, 08:00 PM
Nice one. In retrospect, it would have been funny if you told him "It's gonna be really hard for you to pedel with a shot foot".

markj
March 18, 2008, 01:24 PM
Whatt???? you didnt shoot his kneecaps off? :)

Good sense there, glad you got away and suffered no harm.