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View Full Version : WTK: Remington Model 11, mfg date, worth


AZG3
February 29, 2008, 10:45 PM
I have an old Remington Model 11 12 gauge shotgun that has no blueing and is rusty. I was curious of the year of manufacture and if I would be able to get the rust off well enough to reblue and safely shoot this gun. Or, I was thinking of chopping the barrel and stock down to create a 'whippet' SBS. What are your opinions? The serial number is on the bottom of the receiver, the barrel is bulged a few inches from the muzzle but is in otherwise good condition and has the solid rib. The buttplate is missing and has an old piece of leather fitted to it.

Thanks!

AZG3
February 29, 2008, 10:52 PM
Here are some more pics of the rust on the receiver and bolt...

Dave McC
March 1, 2008, 10:41 AM
First, the Model 11 is oneheckovagun. Like it's A5 cousin, it lasts longer than a bad reputation and works under any conditions.

Turning this into a SBS kinda bothers me, and not just because I'm not a SBS fan. This especially applies if it was owned and operated by anyone who contributed DNA to your personal gene pool. IOW, a family gun. It's an heirloom, not a opportunity.

These are GREAT shooters.

If you shorten that stock extensively, the recoil spring and carrier doodad will punch a neat hole in your shoulder. Take the stock off and you'll see.

That ring bulge probably comes from firing off a steel load in a barrel not built for steel shot. A flagon of mead says the ring is right where the choke taper starts.

In your shoes, I'd....

Get a set of new friction rings and springs and install them. This rebuilds almost all old 11s so they can be used with modern loads.

Have a decent smith cut the barrel right behind the ring and install a bead sight.

Next, you can decide to have this as a Cylinder bore gun, accepting the limits of range and pattern. Or, you can have the smith install choke tubes, and have a much more versatile shotgun.

NOTE:

Long recoil actions that have the barrel bobbed way back tend to batter the internals. A certain amount of weight is needed in the barrel to keep things in balance.

HTH....

Jeff Mulliken
March 2, 2008, 08:44 PM
First, listen to Dave.

Now...I dont believe this is a model 11. It would properly be called a Remington Autoloading Shotgun. In 1911 Remington changed the name to Model 11 and based on the style of stock and the serial number I believe this gun would have probably have been by around 1909. The guns were identical, so the difference is in name only. It's just interesting to know...

On the market the gun is worth almost nothing, maybe a hundred. If the barrel was not bulged it would be more like $200. If it's a family gun consider it priceless, preserve it and **** on the grave of whoever neglected it so badly. By the way some one stupidly sanded the wood till the metal is proud all around the tang.

Clean it up and shoot it, it is a classic and will last longer than you do. Dont cut it down and destroy what little dignity it has left. You CANT cut the stock down to the pistol grip because the action spring tube protrudes about 6" beyond the end of the top tang.

That ring bulge is too far back to be caused by steel shot swaging out the choke, I believe there was a bore obstruction, stuck wad or something of the sort.

Give the gun a little attention and it will be a good classic for hunting in rough conditions.

Jeff

AZG3
March 2, 2008, 11:07 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Now, for a little history on this gun, a coworker gave it to me 10 years ago or so and I had always just had it hanging on the wall above my workbench in the garage. He found it abandoned in the woods a dozen yards off a road 30 or 40 years ago here in Arizona. It was just leaning against a tree. I agree with you on keeping family guns correct and in the family. I just didn't know if this old piece of history was salvageable. Do you think the rust can be knocked down enough to put a decent blue back on the metal? Most of the barrel bulging is 3-4 inches from the end.

Thanks again and I'll check with my local smith about cleaning this gun up and getting it serviceable again. If everything works out I'll post some new pics when it's done.

Dave McC
March 3, 2008, 08:58 AM
Pitting may be bad enough that rebluing would be useless. Hard to tell from the pics.

A couple options if so..

Conserve the finish as it is. Knock the rust off and keep it well lubed. This will look less than perfect but it's cheap and will work.


Or, use one of the many finishes Brownell's has. The bake on stuff has some application here. You could end up with a semi camo if you want one.

If I were doing this as a project, I'd do one of the above and redo the wood, mount a decent pad, have the barrel cut behind the bulge and bored for tubes. Since these oft split the forend just like A5s, I'd add a thin layer of Accuglass or similar epoxy throughout the forend wood.

New springs and rings would finish it off and then I'd have a good shooter to pass on down the generations.

Rumor has it that a Model 11 has been worn out someplace but I'm doubtful.

jameslloyd1948
May 4, 2008, 11:15 AM
Hi fellers. Does anyone know where I can purchase the friction rings and spring for the Model 11 12 GA??? Thanks

mikenbarb
May 4, 2008, 03:02 PM
Please,Please,Please DONT chop it:eek:! Let it be and take it to a good gunsmith. Everyone above has good advice but if you realy want to get old book with your gun put an original Poly-choke on the barrel to give it the real time period look. Screw in chokes are better but poly-chokes look cooler and they do work well. Plus the extra weight is needed if barrel is cut to keep the recoil operation working properly.

Jeff Mulliken
May 4, 2008, 04:29 PM
The friction rings and recoil springs for the Browning Auto-5 are readily available and will work on a M11. Try Midwest Gunworks.

midwestgunworks.com

Jeff

Techsan
May 4, 2008, 07:04 PM
I recently inherited 2 Remington Model 11s from my father. One is stainless 20 guage, the other a blued 16 guage. Looking forward to the chance to take them out, as I had never shot them before. While neither is a family heirloom, they have a distinctive look. If they're as solidly built as you guys say, I'll plan on holding on to them.

Jeff Mulliken
May 4, 2008, 08:33 PM
The Remington Model 11 was never made in stainless steel.

Are you sure about what you have?

Jeff

ZeroJunk
May 4, 2008, 08:42 PM
I have one the same vintage. It needed the little piece that slides in the groove on the barrel breech and keeps another shell from coming out of the magazine until everything is out of the way, can't remember what you call it. Gunparts Corp had it and with a little fitting it worked perfectly.

I had it blacked I guess since there is nothing blue about the finish. Anyhow, I've always liked these. But, they don't have any collectors value.

You can buy the screws from GPC and dress that up pretty cheap.

.351winchester
May 4, 2008, 08:55 PM
I want to get one and make a 18.5"/26-30" Whipit. Hang it by the shoulder strap over my Bonnie & Clyde poster. And it would double as a HD hall sweeper. Even a 16 would do (looking to get a 20 g., a 12 I would just make into the 18" Special Police riot gun configuration)

Techsan
May 4, 2008, 09:00 PM
The Remington Model 11 was never made in stainless steel.

Are you sure about what you have?

Jeff


Fairly sure. Has "Trade Mark" in small print under Remington on the receiver, with "Model 11" in larger print under that. Identical to the blued one I also have. The stainless also has a poly choke on it. You've aroused my curiosity. Let me know if you think I actually have some other model.

mikenbarb
May 5, 2008, 06:58 AM
Remington 11 in stainless????:confused: I think someone got happy with the spray paint. lol
.351winchester, You have to watch when you cut those barrels because they need the weight to operate the recoil system. Their spring operated and cycle with the barrel weight moving rearward to cycle shells. I have seen some useless after the owner cut the barrel and wouldnt cycle.

Jeff Mulliken
May 5, 2008, 07:31 AM
Techsan,

Post the serial number and a picture. We can date it and see what it looks like.

If we confirm it is an 11 it was either stripped of all the blue or is the rareist of the rare....anything is possible I suppose.

Speaking of rare, I worked on an A5 for a gentleman, it had belonged to his father and I repaired a forend that split in 1939 or so. His father had tried to repair it but the repair would not hold. New parts were not available as WW2 was in full swing. He was a machininst making aircraft parts for the war and "borrowed" a piece of billet aluminum and made himself a new forend (and a buttplate too). It was on the gun for bout 65 years, until I repaired the forend.

The son of the maker is getting up in years and has no heirs to leave this incredible bit of craftsmanship...he made a gift of it to me at the Southern Side by Side Championships last week.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/jeffmulliken/20080504_0013.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/jeffmulliken/20080504_0014.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/jeffmulliken/20080504_0015.jpg

Jeff

ZeroJunk
May 5, 2008, 04:10 PM
Wow, that is just too cool. Might be a little rough on the barrel bluing though.

Techsan
May 5, 2008, 09:28 PM
I've taken some pictures of the gun but I'm having trouble uploading them. I'll try again later this week.

BAD_KARMA
May 7, 2008, 07:37 PM
There are lots of barrels floating around if you look. Some thought I have are as follows

1. it is a friction system. Oil the mag tube then wipe all of it off with a clean rag. Know how to set the friction system up. Most people do not know how to do this.
2. tighten the mag tube screw with the barrel held back. This nut needs to be as hand tight as you can get it. if it is loose you will crack the stock.

3. The sportsman model only holds 3 rounds

4. You can use an 870 mag extension on the model 11. You will need about a 1/8 inch spacer to take up the extra room. I used a tacticool sling mount on mine. Since you can not clamp it I would keep it to two rounds.

.351winchester
May 7, 2008, 09:35 PM
351winchester, You have to watch when you cut those barrels because they need the weight to operate the recoil system. Their spring operated and cycle with the barrel weight moving rearward to cycle shells. I have seen some useless after the owner cut the barrel and wouldnt cycle.

I figured if Remington had one at 18.5" in 12 gauge, it should work, though I know of that Riot model having malfunctions at the worst moment to the worst result.

Can you cock it one handed like the 11-48, using the reciprocating barrel?

For a gun i've wanted several years, these really are very reasonably priced, even the exc ones

jcadwell
May 8, 2008, 12:01 AM
Our local gunshop has a handful of model 11s in the 125 to 200 dollar range. All relatively nice guns.

Jeff Mulliken
May 8, 2008, 08:16 AM
There is no classic American made shotgun that can be had for so little money as the Model 11. So many of the fans of the humpback guns focus on the Auto-5 that the M11's sit and wait for a buyer.... And Remingtom made millions and millions of them.

So if you want a "classic" in your rack and only have a couple hundred bucks start looking for one. Most were used hard and long so dont expect to buy a NIB gun. A lot of finish wear is ok and to be expected but don't pick up a broken down one with pitting, a bad recoil pad and a cut off barrel.

Wait till you see one that shows plenty of use and NO abuse then get out your wallet.

Jeff

Rem#11
February 9, 2009, 01:16 PM
I own a post 1932 Model 11 (12 Gauge), that has very little wear from when it was originally purchased. There is some small markings on the barrel, minor damage to the hand stock, the original glow site (I believe), and original rubber butt. Since it was hardly used (I've owned for at least 20 years and have never fired it), I'm assuming it has all the original parts in fairly new condition. I belive the serial number is in the 425xxx range. Is that the number on the left side, below the word "Remington?"

BillM
February 9, 2009, 01:45 PM
Year of manufacture---Didn't remington use the letter code on the barrel
for year of manufacture back then?

Alleykat
February 9, 2009, 02:30 PM
My father owned a Mod 11 riot gun with military markings. He had a Cutts Compensator installed, and I shot a bunch of doves and a few ducks with that old gun. He bought it "new" in cosmoline during the 1960's. Later sold the gun (in pristine condition) to a nearby Sheriff's Dept. Wish I could find that old piece!

Rem#11
February 9, 2009, 03:19 PM
It has a round firing pin. Where on the barrel would I find the letter?

I see I forgot to say it has the "Checkered Stocks" and it's a 12 Gauge (added to original post).

Do they all have the flying duck on the left side and a pheasant on the ground, on the right side?

I've also run across some information about setting up the friction rings for different ammo and find that the information about the steel friction ring doesn't jive with the one I have. It notes that it's very important to install this ring correctly, but the bevel on mine is on the inside of the ring and not on the outside.

Do I measure the complete length of the barrel for length or is there some point along the assembly that I stop at? How do I tell if it's plain or matted rib barrel?

Techsan
March 22, 2009, 12:58 PM
I know it took me a while, but here are some poor photos of the Model 11 I inherited which I believe is stainless. Let me know of you think this is some type of finish rather than stainless. Thanks.

jhp-jcp
September 24, 2009, 07:43 AM
as Rem#11 observed the FRICTION RING is different than shown in the instructions. his (and mine) are just cylinders (about 3/16~1/4 thick) on the exterior and have a bevel on the inside (one end only). the instructions show a FRICTION RING that has a cylindrical section and a conical section (external) on one end. the instructions are VERY specific on which direction the 'OUTSIDE BEVEL' faces depending on the load you are setting the gun up for. i (and probably Rem#11) would greatly appreciate knowing which way OUR FRICTION RINGS should be assembled. attached are the instructions i refer to above. thanks for any help.

Scorch
September 24, 2009, 01:59 PM
Techsan-
Someone has refinished your Model 11 in nickel. It should be very durable, but it is not original.

jhp-jcp-
The ring you are describing is a friction ring. If the bevel is on the inside, you have a Browning A5 friction ring. Friction pieces are made of bronze with a spring steel band around the outside and are used under the friction ring when firing heavy loads. Do not fire the shotgun without friction pieces as it causes the barrel extension to bottom out in the receiver, possibly damaging it. You can use Browning A5 friction pieces. Numrich Arms has some parts for your shotgun.
http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=55820-01A&chrSuperSKU=55820-01&MC=

jhp-jcp
September 24, 2009, 02:42 PM
ok, my question remains - how is this Friction Ring orientated? where do you put it for heavy/light loads? is the A5 Friction ring ok to use in the Model 11? as illustrated in the drawing i attached to my original post the model 11 Friction Ring is quite different than the A5 Ring. i already ordered one from Numrich thinking/hoping it will be the style with the bevel on the outside. there wasn't a picture but it was only $8.30 so what the heck. any help would be appreciated. thanks

Jackaldrummer
October 2, 2009, 04:03 PM
hi everyone, i just registered and i have two questions. i just was recently gifted a Remington Autoloading Shotgun with the SN: 114XXX and was wondering if anyone could tell me the date? and i was going to clean my mechanism up and leave everything else be, would it hurt if i steel wooled the rust off the barrel or would that drop the value?

DG45
October 5, 2009, 12:48 PM
Jackaldrummer, I see you're new. Welcome to the forum. There are lots of knowledgeable people on this forum who should be able to help you with your question - if they see it. I mention this because it looks like this particular thread has just about breathed its last breath. I suggest you open a new thread with your question. Just go back to the SHOTGUN FORUM, open it and look for the place entitled NEW THREAD. Click on that, think of a title for your new thread and then ask your question. That'll get everybodys attention and you'll probably get your answer.

Cbild76
January 22, 2010, 09:41 PM
Reading about the Model 11 got me to wondering about the one I own. My father gave me this shotgun when I was a teenager. It was used for hunting pheasants and ducks for many years. I put it in the case some years ago and kept it in the closet.

The barrel has a Poly Choke on the end of it and has excessive rust. Can it be safely cleaned and used? The barrel is in good shape with no rust or pits, and the mechanics are clean.

DG45
January 23, 2010, 12:54 PM
I own a Remington Model 11 and I know some of the history, etc. of that model, but I'm not the person to give you any advice worth taking on the rusty poly choke. There are people on this forum who can help you, but what you need to do is post a photo or two of your gun, showing the problem, if possible. Everybody loves to see pictures of Model 11s regardless of condition, and I'm sure someone will have some thoughts on what can be done.

PS. It wouldn't hurt to open a new thread with your question and the pictures.

Dave McC
January 23, 2010, 04:19 PM
76, open a new thread and include some pics. You'll get more input that way.

11s are great shotguns. Good luck....

stmichps
June 20, 2010, 12:23 PM
I recently found and purchase a Model 11 in 20 gauge with a intergraded poly-choke at about NRA 70% from a local gunshop. My original intent was to chop the barrel to 18-1/8" making it a home defense gun. After only paying $212 (w/tax) I didn't think I could go wrong.

My thought was that this would be the "Ideal" house gun being recoil operated not gas. Since reading a number of the threads on this forum speaking out against such I'm not to sure? I didn't count on the importance of the barrel weight in the function of the action.

I've seen Model 11s shorten before for this purpose and know of the Model 11R that was originally manufactured with a 20" inch barrel. I've seen both modifications function just fine, but I've got a 20 gauge and I'm not sure that such modification would work as well seeing that we're talking about a lighter load in comparision to a 12 gauge.

I've got to admit I am a little confuse through? One post states that the internals would take a beating by lighting up the barrel, another states that it won't cycle if the barrel is lighten to much.

If it will beat the action then I would think that would be a simple fix by buying a Browning A-5 Magnum 20 springs and friction rings kit, if the latter then come up with a compensator that actually pushes the barrel to the rear.

Which is it? :confused:

By the way! Why is it that the Model 11 doesn't fetch a price closer to the Browning A-5? I can see that the wood and finish on the 11s isn't to the same level as the A-5s but one would think that the pricing would be some what closer then what it is seeing it's a near copy of the A-5s?

Dave McC
June 21, 2010, 10:22 AM
First, $212 for a usable Model 11 is a fair price.

Secondly, any long recoil action is a balancing act between getting the rings, springs, load and barrel weight synchronized. Changing anything drastically can badly affect reliability.

IME, most polychoked barrels on old autos are already bobbed a couple inches. And since I'm no fan of lopping off barrels, I'd see how this shot and functioned with say, 3 buck and the poly set on open.

New rings and springs are a good idea. Keep the old ones as spares.

HTH....

DG45
June 21, 2010, 06:35 PM
Ive heard the same stories about Model 11's not recycling if their barrels are shortened and can't say its not true. But I know some outlaws back in the 1930's shortened model 11's fore and aft to make what were called "whippet guns". There's a famous photo of Bonnie Parker pointing one at Clyde Barrow. I believe one was taken from the Dillinger gang too. You'd figure that if these people had been unhappy with the result of their remodelling, they'd have tossed these guns and stolen something else.

I've also heard that Model 11's won't recycle properly if they're loaded with too light a load and that they should be adjusted (a "how-to-do-it" is availiable on-line) for the type of load you shoot. I'm wondering if you adjust your gun to its heaviest load setting (meaning most drams of powder, I think, not shot size) if that would compensate for a lighter weight barrel? Or do I have that backwards?

Why the difference in prices between A-5's and Remington Model 11s? Well, Remington Model 11's were not produced after 1947 while Browning A-5's continued to be produced until about 10 years ago (I think). So, the average age of Remington Model 11's for sale today is considerably older than the average age for A-5's, even though A-5's began production in 1902 and Remington Model 11's were produced from 1905. (Well, actually, the gun Remington produced on the John Browning patent from 1905-1910 was called The Remington Autoloading Shotgun; then it was tweaked a little and called the Remington Model 11 in 1911.) The oldest Model 11's are now reaching the 100 year old age that seperates "vintage" from "antique".. When these guns start being purchased as antiques instead of as firearms, I look for their value to increase. One things for sure. There's not much downside risk in buying a $211 gun that was designed by John Moses Browning, one of this country's greatest inventors, who considered this autoloading shotgun to have been his greatest achievement.

edgraffiti
September 8, 2010, 12:38 PM
Bumping an old thread in hopes you guys can help.

I have what I believe is a Remington Model 11 produced under the Browning patent. Serial Number is 21002.

I am trying to find out a manuf. date or even a value.

feel free to email me (replace @ for AT and . for DOT to block the spam bots)

edgraffiti AT yahoo DOT com

THANKS!

stmichps
September 8, 2010, 10:38 PM
You'll find 2 letters on the left side of the barrel up close to where it meets the receiver and just above the forearm. This will be your date (month and year) of manufacturing, that is if the barrel is original to the rest of the gun. If the barrel is original to the gun you'll find the same number as is on the right side of the receiver on the bottom side of the barrel by the gas cylinder

Below is link to the chart with the code for dating. Hope this helps you out.


http://www.rc-trucks.org/remington-firearms-serial-numbers.htm


Here is another source that you can check with.

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4463

Huskerfan22
December 27, 2010, 08:35 AM
I'm new to this sight, and I also have a Remington Model 11 shotgun that belonged to my dad. It's still in excellent condition, although it needs to have the bluing done to it, and the last time it was fired was back in the 70s. I was wondering if anyone could tell me when this shotgun was manfactured. The serial number on it is 377573. As for a description of the shotgun, it's semi-automatic, holds 5 shells with the plug removed, and a dark colored stock with what looks like a wheat pattern engraved on it, and the butt is made of a orange colored rubber material.

Dave McC
December 28, 2010, 08:02 AM
Welcome to the Site, Husker.

Some areas vary, but around here a standard 12 gauge Model 11 in good shape will run $200-300.

I urge you not to sell it. It's part of your heritage as well as a darn good shotgun.

HTH....

stmichps
December 28, 2010, 10:32 AM
Huskerfan22 said:

"I was wondering if anyone could tell me when this shotgun was manfactured. The serial number on it is 377573."


Remington used a letter code system for dating their guns. The lettering on the barrel (as long as the serial matches the receiver) should date the month and year of your gun.

Here is a website where you can enter your code to see what that date is.

http://armscollectors.com/sn/remdates.php

Huskerfan22
January 4, 2011, 09:10 AM
Dave McC

Thanks for welcoming me to the sight. I still can't get an answer as to when my dad's shotgun was manufactured. I've been over the barrel with a magnifying glass, and there is no letter on the barrel at all. The top of the barrel has 2 lines of printing on it. The top line shows it was manufactured by Remington Arms in Ilion, N.Y. The second line list the patent dates from Browning. The dates go from 1900 to 1906. Then on the left side of the barrel it says 12 ga. and full. The right side has the initials R.E.P., followed by an anchor. Because of this, I believe this shotgun is older than a 1923 model. Am I correct.

stmichps
January 4, 2011, 09:42 AM
Huskerfan22 about that only thing that I can suggest then is to contact Remington Customer Service and see if they got a Archives department where they'll have that information.

saltydog452
January 4, 2011, 10:24 AM
Early on in this thread, mention was made of the pre 1909 Model 11.

I seem to recall that one way of dating pre vs. post 1909s was the position of the safety.

If the safety was push fwd/back within the trigger guard, kinda like the Garrand, it was pre 1909. If it was a push left/right button,it was post 1909.

I've slept since I read that pre/post 1909 marker and some of my brain cells will never recover, but do I recall correctly?

Thanks,

salty

DG45
January 4, 2011, 08:20 PM
I checked out my Model 11's date of manufacture before I bought it used. It's serial is # 408xxx and I can't remember now if it was manufactured in 1937 or 1938, but it was one or the other, and I think it was 1938. I'd guess that a Model 11 with a serial # 377xxx was made no more than a year or two earlier than mine.

Re: the question above about the Model 11 safety in front of the trigger: My understanding from other posts I've read on this forum is that it was changed to a button behind the trigger in 1928. My gun made in 1937 or 1938 has the button safety behind the trigger. My guess is that a Model 11 with serial #377xxx does too.

donbear
February 18, 2011, 01:14 AM
AZG3 the pics you posted of the good Remington model 11 looks just like the one I just inherited from my grand-father on my mothers side. Myself and my older brother both hunted with it years ago. The number on the gun is 417xx and I need help to find out how old it might be. can you help me or is there someone out there who can. sign crazy cajun

Dave McC
February 18, 2011, 09:48 AM
don, call Remington at 1-800-243-9700. Work through the phone tree until you reach a live human. That person will tell you when your shotgun was made if you give them the serial number.

HTH....

donbear
February 18, 2011, 01:39 PM
Thank you Dave the Remington Co. said it was made in 1907.

Dave McC
February 19, 2011, 05:27 PM
07? So it's more than a century old. Take good care of it.

IMO, 11s don't have user friendly interiors. I suggest getting this to a decent smith for a deep clean and lube. He/she can also see if the chamber length is up to modern ammo.

New rings and springs, ready for another century....

Freakdaddy
February 19, 2011, 07:47 PM
I'm new to this sight, and I also have a Remington Model 11 shotgun that belonged to my dad. It's still in excellent condition, although it needs to have the bluing done to it, and the last time it was fired was back in the 70s. I was wondering if anyone could tell me when this shotgun was manfactured. The serial number on it is 377573. As for a description of the shotgun, it's semi-automatic, holds 5 shells with the plug removed, and a dark colored stock with what looks like a wheat pattern engraved on it, and the butt is made of a orange colored rubber material.

Huskerfan,

Your gun was manufactured in late April / early May of 1930.

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/questions/FR10

shootergdv
March 21, 2011, 07:42 AM
Serial number 89500, 12 gauge, safety inside trigger guard makes it 1928 back ?