View Full Version : Remington 700 SPS Tactical or Savage Model 10 FP - .308
February 26, 2008, 08:53 PM
Aight... I'm going to buy either Remington 700 SPS Tactical or Savage Model 10 FP chambered .308... I've read alot on forums about both. What do you guys suggest?
February 27, 2008, 07:28 PM
Seems like between his two choices there would be some knowledgeable opinions. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn but it seems the Savage gets a lot of kudos and is kind of growing more popular. Course it is hard to beat the grand daddy 700. Somebody that knows something help this guy out.
February 27, 2008, 07:50 PM
Why a tactical rifle? The short barrel limits the cartridge. Anyway IMO a Remington just ain't what they used to be. The Savage, while not as pretty as a Remington, cost a bit less and are great shooters.
February 27, 2008, 10:53 PM
I've got a Savage 10FP in .223 (pre-Accutrigger), and I love it. With a 6-18x50 WorldClass scope, and bipod, it's pretty damn heavy, but it shoots damn good too. I just can't hold it steady enough anymore from a strictly offhand stance.
February 27, 2008, 11:02 PM
I have the Savage 12FV .308, a little longer barrel, and that thing is a tack driver. I have yet to shoot past 500 yards but an amazing rifle for the price. Heavy, yes, but its not a pellet gun. Also the Accu-trigger is awesome, I got it as low as it will go and love it.
Everyone says you have to get a new stock, which I probably will with a detachable mag., but the factory one is fine for now.
February 27, 2008, 11:09 PM
IMO a Remington just ain't what they used to be.
Majic, do you have any explanation? Not that I'm trying to put you on the spot, I'm just curious why you feel that way. Did you or someone you know have a bad experience? Blanket statements like that aren't very useful if not explained.
I've always shot Remingtons, and don't plan on changing anytime soon. Competition is definitely a good thing...the consumer always wins because the old guys (Remington) have to keep price in mind when the other guys (Savage) start selling rifles and hurting the bottom line.
Have you held them? Pick the one that feels best in your arms. They are both great guns from what I hear. Both are accurate, one is cheap and one looks better.
There's my opinion!!
February 28, 2008, 12:11 AM
all thanks for your opinions. i've held both and the Remington is nice, but then i held the savage with a Choate stock. Wow that felt amazing. I think I'm going to get the standard savage then eventually get the Choate stock.
again, thank all of you and if anyone has any other opinions feel free to post. I'm not going to order the rifle until i get my tax refund back.
February 28, 2008, 01:01 AM
I got a 700P in the summer with 26" barrel in .308. Blows up pop bottles at 450 yards so far out of the box. Will be taking out to 1000 come summer.
I love it and would recommend it to anyone.
wayne in boca
February 28, 2008, 05:52 AM
I have a Savage Model 10 FP (pre-Accutrigger) in .308 that I installed a Timney trigger in.Stunningly accurate,with any ammo I have ever tried in it.Keep telling myself that I'm going to replace the stock someday,but the stock one works,and I'm afraid to jinx it.
February 28, 2008, 08:49 AM
As of last I checked (last summer), the military is still using 700's for their sniper systems as evidenced by the few I saw set out at a competition. (Might be an apples/oranges comparison to a normal gun, but why pick Rem and not Sav?) If its good enough for that, should be good enough. If the price is a problem, then a Savage might be the better bet.
It all comes down to what you want to do with it.
February 28, 2008, 09:10 AM
Why a tactical rifle? The short barrel limits the cartridge.
Majic, Not all tactical rifles have short barrels (my 700P has a 26"), and shorter barrels do not limit the cartridge. The only change you will get is a small reduction in velocity....call Mike at Tactical Operations (http://www.tacticaloperations.com/) and have him explain it to you. He sells one of the most accurate rifles in the world and they all come with 20" barrels.
Have you considered just buying the action and purchasing a Choate stock at the same time? You can find a REM. 700 action for a few hundred or buy an SPS 700 for $400 and just replace the stock with one you want.....
Good luck bud
February 28, 2008, 10:32 AM
I had a pre Accutrigger Savage 110FP in 308. That rifle shot absolutely amazing, somedays I wish I still had it. I would buy one again if I were in the market without a second thought.
My only word of advice, don't go cheap on the optics. While the 308 is thought to be a mild round I mounted a cheap BSA scope on top to finish the rig temporarily, ate that thing alive. I started out with small 1-2" groups and as I tried to zero in it started walking all over the place. Got a better scope on it and it shot like a dream...
February 28, 2008, 02:37 PM
You can't go wrong with either. I don't understand the "short barrel" comment though. 24" is the standard and gives you access to a buttload of load data already worked up for you.
February 28, 2008, 03:02 PM
One of the things you might want to look into and think about it what kind of rounds you'll be using. If you want to use lighter/faster bullets look at the savage with the 1/12 twist, heavier bullets for the 700 with the 1/10 twist.
September 20, 2010, 04:49 PM
Savage 10fp in 308 is 1:10. .223 is 1:9.
September 20, 2010, 06:28 PM
Which rifle do you find prettier? Seriously - that's as important a difference as any of the other ones I've seen mentioned in this thread.
Savage guys (I'm one) will say Savage. Remington guys will say Remington. Ad nauseum. Both rifles will give you what you want, so there isn't a great deal to differentiate between the two other than price and cosmetics.
September 20, 2010, 06:51 PM
Never really handled a full size savage but the accutrigger on the rimfire I've used is simply amazing.
My remington has the x-mark pro which I am not very fond of. I would give savage the edge for that reason alone. Granted, remington has a huge aftermarket full of triggers stocks, accessories of all sorts.
September 20, 2010, 07:14 PM
There are a couple of differences. First off, the Accutrigger. Remington doesn't have an answer for that. Not many rifle manufacturers do. Secondly, the barrel on a Savage can be replaced in your garage with common tools, where as a Remington barrel has to be fitted by a gunsmith. This may not matter to most people, but it is true. Also, Savage uses the same design and manufacturing in all of their 308 rifles. There is no custom shop for the action, bolt, or trigger. The design of the action, while made to save labor in manufacturing, is very inherently accurate. The floating bolt makes there no need for trueing up the action. Remington's tactical rifles take extra work to make them as accurate. That is why the Remington Tactical rifles cost more.
Let me just say, I am a Savage man. Remington makes a good rifle, but to me, there is no comparison when cost is a factor. The military has had no need to change bolt rifles, the 700 has done well for them. Plus, they have armorers on their payroll. But, just because the military uses something doesn't make it the best. They have alot of other factors to take into account.
September 27, 2010, 10:05 AM
I will say that I am a Remington guy, but there are several other makers out there that can produce a fine "tactical" weapon for cheaper or in the same price as a remington, but more accurate right out of the box.
FN and their patrol rifle (basically a winchester model 70 action with controlled round feed and the massive claw extractor) are the top pick for budget minded consumers looking for a "tactical" rifle on the cheap and wanting inherent accuracy.
Next i would opt for a Remington 700 LTR, while their MSRP is outrageous, you can often pick them up used or even new for about what you would pay for an SPS. A lot can be done to the 700's without spending a dime! if the trigger is not to your liking a simple stone and polish can take out the creep and make it a crisp and clean pull with a break that feels like glass breaking. Also, some sandpaper and a wooden dowel slightly larger than your barrels diameter helps to open up the barrel channel and free float the barrel. Also, on any gun, even those that have pillar bedding, I would suggest bedding the action and the area of the barrel that houses the chamber (the first 2-3 inches).
now for the savage, great little guns, smooth action (I have not shot one with the accutrigger) and while the ability to swap barrels is neat, I own an encore for that feature. My savage 10FCM scout rifle is handy, but the stock and trigger in the factory configurations left a lot to be desired. Stone and polish, the engagement surfaces, replaced a spring and the trigger felt good. next I free floated the barrel then i glass bedded the action (miles and gilbert glass bedding is the best I have encountered).
Go to my website and check out the article I wrote long ago on accurizing any rifle. http://www.universalfrost.com/rants_and_reviews
January 28, 2009.
The object is to make everything concentric to the datum of the action. Blue Printing the Bolt Action Rifle... Why?: To help satisfy the obsession of owning the most accurate rifle possible.
Your rifle may not be performing to the accuracy of which it is capable. Accurizing is the process of improving the accuracy of your rifle by doing some (or all) of the modifications listed below. Even when these modifications have been completed, you still may require hand loaded ammunition to obtain the most accurate performance from your rifle, as the example below shows.
1. Bed the action
2. Work the trigger
3. Recrown the barrel
4. True all surfaces
a) Face & True Front of the Receiver
b) Re-cut inner barrel seat
c) Lap Bolt lugs & receiver locking recesses
d) True & Lap bolt face
e) Retrace Threads
5. Rechamber the barrel
Bedding the action:
The the first and most effective step in accurizing your rifle, We use various compounds in epoxy to bed the action including metal, carbon fiber, Marine Tex, and Pro-Bed. When the action is bedded, the stock and the action are rigid and the barrel floats, eliminating distortion that affects the path of the bullet.
The object is to make perfect contact in all critical areas of the receiver to the stock.
Enhances the ability to torque the receiver in place.
Greatly reduces the chance of shifting the bullet impact related to temperature and humidity changes.
The receiver stays in exactly the same position shot after shot.
Floating the Rifle Barrel:
Floating in gun talk means the rifle barrel is not touching any place in the barrel channel of the stock beyond the barrel shank. Sometimes the barrel shank is also floated.
If the fore end of the rifle stock warps or moves because of temperature or moisture changes, it will push the barrel, changing the point of impact. If the barrel is moved .001 of an inch in the stock, it would change the point of impact about 1” at 100 yards. It is very easy for a stock to move a barrel .005 to .010 of an inch.
Some rifles (a few) actually shoot better with a pressure point(s) on the barrel. Too much pressure on the barrel can string the shots left, right, or high depending on the pressure point.
To shoot well the shooter must have as light a trigger (weight the trigger finger pulls) as he or she can handle.
The shooter must consider cold or wet weather, off hand snap shooting, etc. when making this decision.
Working the trigger reduces the force of the trigger pull and eliminates any rough spots in the trigger assembly. This provides a smooth, firm trigger pull that eliminates any "jerk" when the trigger releases.
Rechambering the barrel:
Insures that the chamber is true and perfectly aligned with the axis of the bore. It also allows you to use a different cartridge of the same bore diameter than the rifle was originally designed to use.
Recrowning the barrel:
Insures that the bullet touches the lands in the bore of the barrel uniformly as it leaves the barrel, insuring that there is no unbalanced force on the bullet that will affect the path of the bullet.
Trueing all surfaces:
Blueprinting insures that the receiver, the bolt face, and the barrel are all concentric and all faces are perpendicular to the axis of the bore, and the locking lugs mate completely and squarely in their recesses.
The machining of these components is critical because the tremendous pressure generated inside the action and barrel of the rifle will distort them, affecting the path of the bullet.
Hand Loaded Ammunition:
When the rifle has been made as accurate as possible as described above, it still may not shoot perfectly with factory ammunition because each rifle can perform best with different cartridge and bullet configurations. For example: some rifles shoot best with the bullet 0.001" off the lands while others shoot best when the bullet is 0.050" off the lands. This means you must determine the optimum configuration through trial and error, essentially "tuning" the ammunition to the rifle.
September 27, 2010, 12:07 PM
Both are good rifles.
Go to a place where you can handle each rifle, and CHOOSE THE ONE THAT FITS YOU BEST.
In 308 the 1:12 twist of the Remington will still handle all the "tactical" sniper loads on the market. The 1:10 twist in the Savage does just fine. Twist rate is a non-issue.
September 27, 2010, 03:33 PM
not all remingtons are 1:12 (most are)
several of the 700 PSS and P rifles are 1:11 or 1:11.25 from the factory. These are older rifles (mine are both from early 2000).
Also, the type of rifling makes a heck of a difference, not just the twist rate. I prefer a 3 poly if I have my choice, but next up is 4 or 5 groove enfiled style (some will see this advertised as 5R and is nothing new, just a new twist on marketing an old style of rifling).
One must remember that the 1-10" twist on a .30 cal was cooked up for 220 grain round noses out of Krag-Jorgensens (which were 30/06)
Having that kind of spin on a .308 won't hurt anything, but it isn't patently necessary.
September 27, 2010, 03:42 PM
Thank you, but I was only referring to the current models.
Also Krag-Jorgenson's were never chambered for 30-06, they were chambered for 30-40 Krag, a different beast entirely. Although both rounds have been referred to as "30 US" so there is some confusion. You'd have a bad day if you chambered a KJ for 30-06.
September 27, 2010, 03:45 PM
you will see some of the earlier 30/06 testing was done with the Krag actions and due to the weakness of the action the loads were on the weak side.
not very powerful (about on par with 303 brit), but a few 30/06 krags are out there (most at the NRA museum).
September 27, 2010, 04:09 PM
In that case they would be 30-03, not 30-06 as the Springfield 1903 was the service rifle at the time of adoption by the 30-06, AND they would never have been an issue rifle. The only reference I can find to 30-06 Krags were converted Norwegian two lug variants.
Hell, there are 5 45ACP Lugers floating around in the world, but that doesn't mean it was ever issued as a service pistol :P
September 27, 2010, 04:20 PM
never said it was an issue rifle, I said that it was used to test the 30/06 chambering. and I have personally seen a couple of the 30/06's on my visit back east to the museum (last month).
nice guns, but I personally would not shoot 06' in a krag ..
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