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maxkimber
February 21, 2008, 01:10 PM
What are differences between the Remington 870 and 870P?

-AND-

What are the differences between the Mossberg 500 and 590?

I am in the market for a shotgun, but prefer a heavier duty "tactical" type, but am curious to the differences between the popular models and the Police or Mil-Spec versions. - In short, what justifies the extra money? Thanks...

hogdogs
February 21, 2008, 01:27 PM
I think the 590 is a high capacity gun and may have other tactical features...
Brent

ssilicon
February 21, 2008, 03:02 PM
I do not know. But here is another one for all you smart fellows:

What is the difference between Mossberg
500
500A
500AG
??

Dfariswheel
February 21, 2008, 07:48 PM
Here's the actual differences between the standard 870 Express and the 870P Police guns.

The Express is Remington's "budget" gun, made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.

The Wingmaster is Remington’s "Cadillac" top-of-the-line sporting gun.

The Police is a Wingmaster with a dull finish and is a much more carefully inspected and built gun.

The new "Tactical" and Marine Magnum guns are based on the Express.

How Remington lowered the Express price was to reduce hand labor to a bare minimum, and to eliminate much of the polishing and de-burring the better quality Wingmaster and Police guns get.

The Express is basically the same forged and milled steel receiver and heavy-duty internals gun the better 870's are, just in a rougher, less well finished form with plastic and MIM parts.

The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine versions, which do NOT have the dimples.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece sleeved barrel. (not 100% sure about this)
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
The Marine Magnum and Tactical models have plated or polymer finishes.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.

The Wingmaster has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A chrome plated bolt.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.

The 870 Police has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Police gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing and is built in a special area of the plant from 100% inspected parts.
A military-grade parkerized finish.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut or synthetic stock, with a short police-length fore end.
The Remington “R3” super recoil pad that reduces felt recoil by 30%.
Choices in different stocks, including Speed-feed, and others.
18" to 20" improved cylinder barrel, with a wide choice in sights, including rifle, ghost ring, and luminous.
Police options like magazine extenders, forearms with built-in lights, and sling swivels.
Heavy-duty magazine spring.
Heavy-duty trigger-sear spring.
Heavy-duty shell lifter spring.
Sling swivel mounts.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.

The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, the Wingmaster is a "top of the line" sporting gun, the Police is the top-of-the-line in defense guns.
The 870's are generally considered to be the finest quality pump gun made.

The Mossberg 500 is the "standard" gun, the 590 series is the beefed-up gun with a magazine and barrel assembly copied from the 870.
This allows easier cleaning of the magazine tube and use of more accessories.

The 590-A1 is the super-beefed-up made for use by the military and police.
It has a heavier barrel and less plastic and MIM parts.

Truth is, as far as strength, durability, and ability to use accessories goes, the Express 870 is a good step above the Mossberg 500, and about equal to the Model 590.

The 870P Police is a good step to a step and a half up from the Mossberg 590-A1.

Here's what Remington says about the Police model:

REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

maxkimber
February 21, 2008, 10:46 PM
Dfariswheel - Thank you. My gut was to go with the 870P and you just confirmed it... Excellent comparison info:)

c_o_jones
February 22, 2008, 09:15 AM
Mossberg 500's have a letter following the 'model 500' to indicate what gauge it is.
A is a 12 gauge, B is a 16ga., C is a 20ga., and E is for the .410...

The 500AG is a (12 gauge) Turkey gun fitted with the old C-Lect choke system,
C-lect chokes are adjusted by turning a knob on the end to make it a full, modified, or improved choke.

The biggest difference between a 500 and a 590 is in the mag tube design.
The 500 is closed and uses a bolt to attach the mag tube to the barrel, while the 590 is open and uses a nut.
The 590a1 is built to mil spec. and has a heavy barrel and a metal trigger guard.

Other people can chime in regarding any other differences...

ssilicon
February 22, 2008, 10:49 AM
The 500AG is a (12 gauge) Turkey gun fitted with the old C-Lect choke system, C-lect chokes are adjusted by turning a knob on the end to make it a full, modified, or improved choke.

Thanks for the info! I have a 500AG. I put a 18.5" cylinder barrel on it so I don't think that is choked. Where is the choke selector that turns? Haven't seen it. I thought my choking is changed according to which of my barrels I attach to it (I have 2 others besides the 18.5").

c_o_jones
February 22, 2008, 12:02 PM
The end of a barrel with a C-lect would have something on it that looks like this:
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff132/__gab123__/C_Lect.jpg

maxkimber
February 22, 2008, 04:57 PM
How does the Benelli Tactical Shotguns compare to the 870P?

ssilicon
February 22, 2008, 06:07 PM
Thanks guys for the good info, especially the 500 info I was interested in.

Dfariswheel
February 22, 2008, 08:53 PM
maxkimber

The Benelli is a top quality gun, and I believe the US Marines have used it in limited quantities.

As to whether it's "better" then a Remington 870P: The Benelli is an auto loader, the 870 is a pump gun.
Apples and oranges.
The 870 is the best quality pump shotgun made.

Sufficient to say, over 95% of all American law enforcement use the Remington 870P.
Look in most any police car, Sheriff's car, State patrol car, or Federal car anywhere in America and the shotgun is an 870.

maxkimber
February 22, 2008, 10:08 PM
Dfariswheel - They due have the Nova Pump Tactical (http://www.berettausa.com/communities/le_mil/catalog%20Benelli_Tactical.htm).

Your info is right on and exactly what I am seeking, and I due appreciate it. I tend to over analyze all my purchases and I can probably get by with my 16th birthday present, an old savage pump (don't even know the model, I would have to dig it out), but I like to buy quality products and have a tactical background, so tend to lean towards tactical products.

I do not doubt the 870P and will probably end up with one, but have to query about Benelli due to their reputation - and I like Beretta...