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oldbillthundercheif
February 18, 2008, 09:58 PM
Alright, lets see what y'all think...

One fellow posted his hunting experience on this forum today where he boasted of using a 9mm on pigs without checking that the exotic ammunition supplied by his guide hit anywhere near his usual point-of-aim. This is blatantly unethical from where I stand.

On top of that, it may have been illegal to hunt with a 9mm in the state where this took place...

Is it illegal to hunt pigs with a 9mm in Tennessee?

If it's not illegal, I guess I don't have a big enough problem with this to push it any more, but if it is, I think I should at the very least report it to the bar association of his home state (he is a lawyer at Fees and Burgess in Alabama), and Alabama's hunting regulatory agency.

I take illegal actions by lawyers very seriously, what do y'all think? Should we try to get this guy stomped to teach him a lesson or just leave him to his shifty ways and hope he shoots himself in the foot?

Speaking for myself, I guess it all boils down to TN law regarding hunting with small handguns. Any clarification on TN game laws would be very helpful.

retrieverman
February 18, 2008, 10:19 PM
I would strongly advice you to take what is said on any message board with a grain of salt.

hogdogs
February 18, 2008, 10:27 PM
I have since given' up in trying to offer info to law enforcement... Karma kicks my butt everytime... I learned my personal karma will have me in trouble shortly after snitchin'... Plus the fact that snitches get stiches and snitches are a dieing breed comes to mind...
;):rolleyes:
Brent

Full-choke
February 18, 2008, 10:42 PM
Not all stories are true on the internet. A lot of guys flatter themselves quite a lot when they get on the forums. While we may view it as unethical and down right wrong, we can't stop them. We didn't see them in the act, otherwise we probably wouldn't even let it have happened. So just take it as it comes, say your penny's worth and be done with it. Tell them they were wrong and leave it be, and not to steal a post, but don't turn it into an argument either. It just makes everyone look bad all the way around. A level head and a proper response goes a long way.

F-C

TCman
February 18, 2008, 10:54 PM
On this one i would have to agree with thunderchief. If he is a poacher, he deserves to rot in a cell. You guys take up for him when he is disrespecting your own sport? I dont understand that at all.

Bitmap
February 18, 2008, 10:58 PM
If it matters so much to you why don't you look up the hunting rules and regs for TN and find out if it was legal or not? This thing we are using called the internet . . . you know, the one Al Gore invented.

Furthermore, it sounds like TN law enforcement should be involved if a crime was commited. I'm not sure that what you read on the internet would be probable cause.

hogdogs
February 18, 2008, 11:00 PM
No body took up for anyone...
I am not against a person using weapon of choice to hunt. Even the best shooter with the biggest round misses a clean kill sometimes... To me the only guaranteed clean kill is a point blank shot to the noggin or as I dispatch wild hogs with a knife to the vitals... I only meant in his thread to suggest the danger of shooting a hog with substandard caliber at unsafely close range.
Brent

DonR101395
February 18, 2008, 11:05 PM
Deer, Bear, Boar and Feral Hog Hunting

* Shotguns using ammunition loaded with single solid ball or rifled slugs. No restriction on number of rounds in magazine.
* Rifles, except those utilizing an artificial light capable of locating wildlife, using center-fire ammunition, in all counties except where regulated by legislative acts.
* Muzzleloading percussion cap or flintlock rifles, handguns or shotguns of .40 caliber (.40-inches) minimum. These muzzleloading firearms are legal during any gun season or hunt unless otherwise specified. Muzzleloading firearms are defined as those firearms which are incapable of being loaded from the breech.
* Longbows, compound bows, crossbows and other bows drawn or held by a mechanical device.
* Hunting arrows and bolts shall be of a barbless design and shall have sharpened blades.
* Handguns using any centerfire ammunition, except those with multiple shot, and having a barrel length of four inches or more, in all counties except where regulated by legislative acts.
* Weapons may be equipped with sighting devices except those devices using an artificial light capable of locating wildlife. Night vision scopes are illegal.


The SR9 has a 4.14" barrel so yes it's legal. Google is your friend;)

oldbillthundercheif
February 18, 2008, 11:06 PM
I'm unsure, that's why I put it up for debate.:)

My instinct is to mind my own beeswax, but my grandfather was the chairman of my home state's department of natural resources and he drilled it deep into my hunting conscience that you should always report bad hunting activity.

I'm not prejudiced against lawyers. Quite the opposite, actually. I do expect them to know better than to break laws and act like jackasses.

Nobody has stated the legality of hunting with a 9mm pistol in TN, though. If it ain't illegal I guess I really don't care.

EDIT: I guess it's legal, so I guess I don't care.

I did dig around for the proper regs but had not had any luck so far...

ActivShootr
February 19, 2008, 12:09 AM
DonR beat me to it.

The equipment used in the post in question is legal in The Volunteer State. If the animal was taken in a humane and ethical way, I see no harm done. I would only have a problem if the animal had only been wounded and not recovered. I think that the ammunition and caliber used were questionable at best and I personally would not reccomend the combination to a first time hog hunter.

However, having read the post and judging only by the information given in the post, I see no wrongdoing on the hunter's part. He had hunted wild hogs before and (apparently) was aware of the dangers that a wouned boar proposed.

I wouldn't tempt fate too much though. 'Tis better to have too much gun than not enough when you have a PO'd pig after you :D

Scorch
February 19, 2008, 12:44 AM
Not all stories are true on the internet.Ain't that the truth!
My instinct is to mind my own beeswax,In general, that's a good policy, but if you got him cold, then bust him.
If he is a poacher, he deserves to rot in a cell.More than likely, he would get a slap on the wrist, possibly a suspended sentence. That whole "birds of a feather" thing, you know. Lawyers call it a "professional courtesy".
I have since given' up in trying to offer info to law enforcement... Seems to be about my experience with alerting F&G about poachers.

Art Eatman
February 19, 2008, 10:12 AM
Repeat after me, "Our Father, this is the Internet..."

People claim to be from here, there or yonder. People claim to have done things. People claim occupations, they claim skills.

I won't claim, "I've seen it all..." but after almost ten years here I sometimes feel like I have. :D

Until you've been reading somebody's posts for some lengthy period of time, assessing consistency in claims or ideas, it's best to just keep the old salt shaker handy.

FWIW, Art

sourdough44
February 19, 2008, 10:59 AM
Sometimes when I come to my senses I wonder why I look over some of these net boards. Much of it stays in the entertainment catagory. There is a lot of foolishness out there.

Ranger Al
February 19, 2008, 12:51 PM
It is legal to hunt big games with center firing only..

kingudaroad
February 19, 2008, 01:26 PM
Reminds me of the time I took out that charging grizzly sow with a perfectly placed shot out of my 380 auto.

The Tourist
February 19, 2008, 01:39 PM
Poaching deer in northern Wisconsin is known as "violating" here, and it is a "skill" that is handed down from father to son.

Now believe this or not, I have mixed feelings.

I hate slob hunters, as you know. Their carelessness and smug attitude show the non-shooting public that there is a faction of our sport that is a mob of drunken townies. Heck, I'd call the DNR on a slob hunter while he was standing next to me.

"Get off that phone, Chico! I have my boots off and I'm going to count to eleven and open fire..."

The problem for me is that I know many of the areas of northern Wisconsin. There are sections that are very hard pressed. Lots of businesses have folded. Many of those hunters are subsistance folks--they eat what they kill or go hungry.

If a guy like that violated the deer on his own land for the express purpose of feeding his family, then I have no problem.

The bubba who kills deer and bear for trophies is not in that situation.

Beretta16
February 19, 2008, 02:01 PM
The hog died in a quick, ethical manner. Give it a rest. If it was illegal you think one mistake is worth him getting debarred? You need to lighten up and just mind your own business. Now if you encountered poaching first hand I would report it without thinking twice, but taking a story you heard on the internet to the man's employer?

ActivShootr
February 19, 2008, 05:13 PM
Poaching deer in northern Wisconsin is known as "violating" here, and it is a "skill" that is handed down from father to son.

Now believe this or not, I have mixed feelings.

I hate slob hunters, as you know. Their carelessness and smug attitude show the non-shooting public that there is a faction of our sport that is a mob of drunken townies. Heck, I'd call the DNR on a slob hunter while he was standing next to me.

"Get off that phone, Chico! I have my boots off and I'm going to count to eleven and open fire..."

The problem for me is that I know many of the areas of northern Wisconsin. There are sections that are very hard pressed. Lots of businesses have folded. Many of those hunters are subsistance folks--they eat what they kill or go hungry.

If a guy like that violated the deer on his own land for the express purpose of feeding his family, then I have no problem.

The bubba who kills deer and bear for trophies is not in that situation.

What does this post have to do with ANYTHING we have been talking about? No one said anything about poaching. The question was if a 9mm is legal for hunting big game in Tennessee. IT IS!!!! You are beating the sh*t out of a dead horse and are way off topic. Give it a rest.

tplumeri
February 19, 2008, 05:24 PM
it's best to just keep the old salt shaker handy

I agree!
and i just happen to have a salt and pepper shaker set for sale on another thread.
Sorry. I just HAD to .
back to the OP:
Unfortunately, even if the guy WAS doing something illegal, unless you were there and filed the complaint and agreed to testify there would be no legal action taken.
call your local authority and tell em " i read on a forum post that this guy killed a pig with an illegal handgun..." and see what they say.

davlandrum
February 19, 2008, 06:07 PM
Kingudaroad - Come on, man - to make it a credible internet story, a .380 auto is way too big for a griz - maybe change it to a Red Ryder BB gun, and you had to bounce it off a tree in order to get it down the ear canal to the brain...:D

kingudaroad
February 19, 2008, 07:06 PM
But I don't have a bb gun.:confused:

tplumeri
February 19, 2008, 07:24 PM
down the ear canal to the brain

Or a shot straight up the nose. thats how i got mine. of course it was very close quarters, the bear ambushed me from behind a tree while i was walking my pet ferret......

davlandrum
February 19, 2008, 08:09 PM
OldBill,

Sorry, I got sidetracked with the humor...

If I had a reasonable means of confirming an actual violation occurred, I would do my best to confirm it and then turn it over to LE.

Ethics is something we can try to influence by responses to the info, as I think you did.

I can encourage changes to the regs both as an individual and as a member of various hunting organizations to make them better from a ethics standpoint (caliber limits, for example). And soon, hopefully encourage ethical behaviour as a hunter safety instructor.

Personal ethics are a constantly evolving thing, as we are influence by our environment, hopefully in the right direction. I know I did some stuff "back in the day" that was legal, but would not meet my standard of ethical now.

rem870hunter
February 19, 2008, 08:25 PM
did it happen during legal hunting season?
did he atleast use the minimum weapon size and caliber allowed?
did he have a legal hunting license if needed?

if the answers to the questions is yes
then i guess he is is safe.

i saw a p/u truck many years ago with a dead deer in the bed, and an uncased bow with 2 arrows in the quiver. it was the middle of july. so wherever he shot it it was not legal. the guy was i guess on his way somewhere was driving it. so i wrote the tag number and make and model of the p/u truck down and as soon as i got home i called the hotline. it turns out they found him and the deer. as far as i know he got arrested for poaching. i only got a return phone call saying that they did find the owner of the truck along with a deer. that was not a roadkill. they did find an arrow wound or two in the carcass. now would i make that phone call if i saw something like that again. yup i would sorry but i would.

it makes me sick to see time and time again someone doing something and getting away with it, thats illegal though knowing darn well if i did it i would be caught and arrested or worse. i don't like stepping on toes i don't like to be a bad guy. and to those members of TFL.com who do right thank you i am glad to be a member.

kingudaroad
February 20, 2008, 12:31 AM
it makes me sick to see time and time again someone doing something and getting away with it, thats illegal though knowing darn well if i did it i would be caught and arrested or worse

I'm not sure that's the best reason to do the right thing.

rem870hunter
February 20, 2008, 09:43 PM
i understand. but i wonder if it someone else that had seen the truck would have called it in to the hotline if i didn't see it or call. i only hope that in others eyes i did the right thing. they guy could've very easily covered it up and it would'nt have been seen. i don't think its illegal to ride around with a bow hanging in the back window of a vehicle. or with one cased or uncased lying in your backseat or in your trunk. whether its hunting season or not. like i said before i don't want to step on toes.

hogdogs
February 20, 2008, 10:47 PM
I am in the group that does not consider it poaching to feed my family with an out of season deer. Will they ever find my freezer to hold in excess of the 4 deer limit (in florida)? NEVER! Am I a BUBBA? I don't think so as a BUBBA has a minimum weight and I am far under that. Am I a redneck? YOU BETCHER BOOTS!
I only buy a sportsman license if I am going out to hunt "FER FUN". I did not deer hunt this year so I did not... If I am feeding my family I don't have to drive far and will cover the deer. I likely would do it at night and it will be frozen by daybreak.*

*anything sounding illegal is written as fiction for entertainment reasons only... I never break laws of any kind!
Brent

Edward429451
February 20, 2008, 10:58 PM
That's kinda what I thought when I started reading this thread...I wonder if he ate the pig. It's not poaching if you feed the fam with it, ethically speaking at least.

kingudaroad
February 21, 2008, 12:16 PM
It's not poaching if you feed the fam with it, ethically speaking at least.

If you have the means to feed your family legally then it is still poaching. No matter how delicious it is.

davlandrum
February 21, 2008, 12:25 PM
+1 to King.

hogdogs
February 21, 2008, 01:14 PM
Sice we are barely getting by, a deer would free up a hundred dollars to buy gas and other food.
Brent

The Tourist
February 21, 2008, 01:24 PM
The question was if a 9mm is legal for hunting big game in Tennessee. IT IS!!!! You are beating the sh*t out of a dead horse and are way off topic

The illegal taking of game is "poaching." This could mean taking game outside of the designated season, shooting too near a road, using a rifle in a shotgun zone, hunting after dark, and at one time in Wisconsin--carrying a pistol and a rifle at the same time.

In fact, a 9mm in Wisconsin is always illegal. The DNR has designated just what a "power factor" is for a pistol, and also the barrel length. I don't mean to speak in generalities, but this means you are limited to magnum firearms with barrels of more than five inches and turn-bolt pistols of rifle calibers.

In fact, at one time the 10mm Auto was not legal.

You might think this is ridiculous--I'm inclined to agree, I think there are too many juvenile rules and regualtions.

However, what you might think is normal can get you arrested here--for poaching. And they'll take your firearm, your car, levee a hefty fine and you might lose your right to hunt for a number of years.

And believe it or not, we still have a large number of "hunters" who poach deer all year round, near roads, in the dark with huge lights and illegal firearms.

ssilicon
February 21, 2008, 02:57 PM
First off, ethics are subjective. So leave that out of it. Second of all, you're not even sure of the law regarding pigs in Tennessee. Do you want to get somebody busted so badly that you are reaching for things that you aren't even sure are illegal?

Limit it to known violations of the law, that are very serious (dead pigs aren't, so far as criteria for internet snitching is concerned), and you think are more than just BSing on the internet. Otherwise let it be man.

If you think there might be credible information of murder or human trafficing and slavery, then yeah let the authorities in on it and let THEM figure it out. Sheesh.

davlandrum
February 21, 2008, 03:30 PM
Sice we are barely getting by, a deer would free up a hundred dollars to buy gas and other food.


Doesn't that logic apply to everyone? So everyone who needs to save on thier food bill because they need that money for other things can go shoot as many as they need to?

Illegal is illegal. The guy who robs the 7-11 to feed his family would have the same justification. Or would that somehow be different?

Besides, if I still have a computer, and internet access, (cable ?, cell phone ?) how desperate am I really?

And, according to some, the Democrats are just giving away money in all their social programs, so go getcha some!!

Between my garden, canning food, 1 deer a year, some elk meat from whoever got one in my group, salmon, crab, clams - all taken legally with the proper license and tags - I keep my food costs under control, even with 4 kids. A lot easier to take care of my family legally than to try and take care of them from jail.

ZeroJunk
February 21, 2008, 04:29 PM
I don't know that this is exactly on topic but it reminds me..

When I was in my teens and early twenties I killed dozens of domestic hogs with a 22 rimfire. Usually one shot between the eyes, but occassionally the skull would deflect the bullet if the angle was wrong, and another shot would be required.The hog was subsequently stuck, put in the scalder, cleaned and gutted. Hams were salted down and put in the smokehouse. We gave the "lights" away. Made sausage, bacon, fatback, lard, TENDERLOIN. Even ate the head.

I see no inherent magical difference between a wild animal and a domestic one and can't see that one wants to live any less than the other. Mother nature made this arrangement but it is not pleasant to dwell on.

Anyhow, it would be good for the anti-hunter to watch this procedure or similar at the slaughterhouse before he sits in the nice restaurant and eats his ham and eggs, while discussing the cruelty of hunters.

hogdogs
February 21, 2008, 04:42 PM
Robbing a store is a VIOLENT FELONY CRIME!
Anyone that wishes to go hungry is free to do so. At anytime I may face going hungry I will remedy the malady.:D
And will do so before too weak to load my "groceries" in the truck...
Brent

kingudaroad
February 21, 2008, 05:40 PM
And, according to some, the Democrats are just giving away money in all their social programs, so go getcha some!!

Thanks Dave!! I just spit all over my computer. Hilarious!!

davlandrum
February 21, 2008, 07:32 PM
OK, change "robbing a store" to

1) stealing an ATV and selling it
2) siphoning gas for the truck
3) killing a cow and butchering it

Only difference between killing a cow and poaching a deer is that the cow belongs to one person, the deer belongs to everyone.

Besides, HD, how many hogs can you get with a license? Achieves the same effect.

We get one deer a year, which doesn't last very long in my freezer, but I would give up my guns or hunting rights forever just for another deer.

hogdogs
February 21, 2008, 09:02 PM
Actually I can take unlimited hogs daily year around with my permit but must be on private land and I do not have access to enuff places so i sold off my baydogs as they were not getting run enuff. Plus to get to and from the couple places which i had permission on cost me 45 dollars in gas and than it is not a sure thing. If a baydog or bulldog gets gutted it may cost 4-8 hundred to save it at a vet.
The other crimes listed are crimes against an individual. A doe taken out of population is good for the herd so I ain't even affecting individual hunters in a negative way.*
*to be considered fictitious for entertainment only...
Brent

ActivShootr
February 21, 2008, 11:53 PM
The illegal taking of game is "poaching." This could mean taking game outside of the designated season, shooting too near a road, using a rifle in a shotgun zone, hunting after dark, and at one time in Wisconsin--carrying a pistol and a rifle at the same time.


Taken fron the Tennessee Hunting & Trapping guide:

"Private lands - Public Hunting Areas (see PHAs, page 71) are considered
private land. Open year round, except in holdings on Catoosa
and South Cherokee where the season is open with the statewide
deer seasons. Dogs prohibited. No limit, either sex. During statewide
deer seasons, only weapons legal for hunting deer may be used for
hunting feral hogs."

Also taken from TN Hunting & Trapping guide big game legal equipment section:

"Handguns using any centerfire ammunition, except those with multiple shot, and having a barrel length of four inches or more, in all counties except where regulated by legislative acts."

The hunter was well within the confines of the law. He was not hunting out of season nor was he using illegal equipment.

Edward429451
February 22, 2008, 10:41 AM
But hunger is subjective. (!)




Hmm, ATV's are private property, someone worked and paid for it.
Gas is private property.
Haven't seen any wild cows lately, have you?

If deers belong to everybody, why couldn't I be considered to be one of *everybody*? Who would be the victim if I took one and fed the fam with it?

Two guys walk into court, one charged with robbing a store or stealing an ATV, and one guy poached a deer, both say to feed the fam with...I'd be inclined to convict the thief, and let the poacher walk. You've made a bad analogy.

The man who poaches is less of a drain on the system than the couch potato who goes and gets food stamps. Maybe the food stamp office should give out rifle ammo instead of supermarket ammo?:D

I argue for entertainment purposes here! Just looking at the other side of the coin. I do not condone breaking the law or poaching if there is any other way. I came close to going to take a deer before. No cable tv, but my cell phone was still on. My work comes over that phone though. Should I have spent the cell phone money on food and let the phone go? What about tomorrow?? Luckily the phone rang and boom, I had food money. No deer needed. We got by. I would have felt justified in taking the deer though. Is it not my planet too? It wouldn't have been trophy hunting, or pelts for profit, just food. What the heck is wrong with that?

Only the Law. If subjectivity has no place here (because of the law) then why do we need judges? They could set up a pay center like a vending machine and save the judges payroll.:D

Relax! Just debate here.

hogdogs
February 22, 2008, 10:57 AM
That is how I look at it....
I don't want the gubmint/FDR handouts. I don't "steal" for 2 reasons... one it is wrong and I was taught better and the other is I want to be able get a hair crossways in my ass mad when some one steals from me. I would get a deer before ever stealing from people or business...
Brent

Edward429451
February 22, 2008, 10:59 AM
Agreed. I would panhandle before stealing anything.

davlandrum
February 22, 2008, 11:56 AM
I can agree to disagree.

It is a really slippery slope to decide it is OK for 1 person to do something illegal. If it is OK for 1, why not 2 or 3 or everyone? I guess with this line of logic, there is no reason to have any regs - no licenses, no seasons, no bag limits. We have more deer now because there are regs.

Good discussion. I tried to be as civil as possible presenting my side, as have the counter-posters.

Dave

hogdogs
February 22, 2008, 01:05 PM
I love to debate...
In some areas deer are so plentiful that it would not hurt the population any to lose a decent percentage to "poachers". CWD is directly related to overpopulation. Here in Florida we have a very liberal baglimit and thus have a very low rate of CWD.... But we do have plenty of deer... Our population of hogs is under control since they do so much damage to crops. I would rather have pork (family just don't understand how tasty venison is...) but meat is meat... I do not look to go 100% venison, just to offset the food bill is enuff fer me to afford to but other groceries...
Brent

kayakersteve
February 22, 2008, 01:31 PM
Reminds me of the time I took out that charging grizzly sow with a perfectly placed shot out of my 380 auto

Once when I was young, I took out a charging grizzley with my 22 mag NAA minimag at 150 yards....or was I dreaming???

The Tourist
February 22, 2008, 01:51 PM
my 22 mag NAA

Would you be interested in buying a Harley Sportster that goes 175 MPH to go with that lethal little gun?

It's just the internet, it's just the internet...

Scorch
February 22, 2008, 02:19 PM
Ethics 101
Socrates taught that laws are there to control unethical people. Ethical people have no need of laws.

If the law says that a given act is not allowed, people somewhere have decided that it is in society's best interest to ban that behavior. Murder, assault, theft (poaching is a kind of theft), larceny, etc, are undesirable for a variety of reasons. But the initial question in this thread was 'should someone be reported for illegal behavior', and I believe that yes, lawbreakers should be reported to the authorities. But since it appears that no crime was committed (almost a given, since he was hunting with a guide on a reserve), it appears that there is a personal issue involved, and my advice would be to just let it go.

kayakersteve
February 22, 2008, 07:36 PM
Would you be interested in buying a Harley Sportster that goes 175 MPH to go with that lethal little gun?

My Harley can go 275 mph! What's so special about that???

ELMOUSMC
February 23, 2008, 01:01 AM
This thread is a great example of why I come to this web site.There is some serious wisdom wizzed here and a geuine civil debate,discussion on most any subject that comes up.To the Question if the great state of Tennessee has decided that a 9mm is legal to hunt Hogs with then so be it Imo it is stupid as I have seen more than 1 dog and a couple of people pretty well gnawed up by Hogs that were not done for properly and a 9mm just dosent seem like enough gun no matter how many rounds it carries.And that is not taking into consideration the ethical side of hunting ELMO:)

Art Eatman
February 23, 2008, 09:03 AM
Getting away from the thread topic--which has been common throughout :) --and on to a couple of points just to ponder:

First, many "lesser" cartridges kill, but not necessarily quickly--and we then get into "ethically" and "humanely".

Then, we get into attitudes: Bambi is a Noble Beast, deserving of that quick, clean, humane ethical kill. We've said that here, a gazillion times, right? Okay: Feral hogs are pests. I can see from the tone of posts about hunting them that they don't cause that Noble Beast emotion, which then affects attitudes about what is an appropriate cartridge.

No big deal; just something to consider.

Back to my coffee...

Art

hogdogs
February 23, 2008, 10:54 AM
Art, Good point to make... I do consider ferral hogs a pest as are ferral cats... As a nuisance wildlife permit holder I see them as nothing more than roaches... I do try for a clean kill with every pull of the trigger and will not hunt with less than satisfactory caliber and bullet weight. A .22lr has limitations when cat hunting and a .30-30 or shotgun slug do too when used for deer hogs or other larger game. Deer are in high enuff population that they could easily be considered pests. I know them snooty homeowners that call for ferral hog removal also lose plenty of shrubbery to deer. I just can't target them as I can the hogs...:D
Brent

kingudaroad
February 23, 2008, 12:46 PM
I personally would sell my computer and cancel my internet access if I did not have the legal means to feed my family.

A criminal, who in his own mind is justified, is still a criminal.

Edward429451
February 23, 2008, 12:55 PM
A lot of my work comes over the internet also. Should I do the right thing and let the work source go, just so I don't have to take a deer that belongs to everyone except me?:rolleyes:

It all comes down to situational ethics no matter how you look at it. I guess thats why there are judges and juries. The poacher with a 10K can beer can collection should get punished, whereas the father of 5 that works 2 jobs and still can't keep them fed may be deserving of a break.

hogdogs
February 23, 2008, 12:55 PM
I would sell my puter and cancel my net service too... to buy ammo... A ten year old puter is worth 100 bucks... MAYBE and I pay 10 bucks fer innernet service... So I can buy a hundred bucks worth of beef, how far will that go? Or a hundred bucks worth of slugs and buckshot and over time supply my family with thousands of dollars worth of venison... A violation of a game law does not a criminal make... But as for me and mine we haven't had to resort to this... YET. As a kid we ate lots of out of season deer to stave off hunger.
Brent

Sarge
February 23, 2008, 01:17 PM
I have a cape. I can fly, after I jump in a phone booth and put on my Capitan Cankersore suit. I then ignore FAA rules, barnstorm senior centers and kindergartens in my diabolical efforts to scare the frail and helpless out of their skivvies. Oh, BTW I am responsible for the Lindbergh Kidnapping, too. Whataya gonna do, report me?

For folks afflicted with Hall Monitor Complex I would suggest a career in law enforcement. Go to work for a good sized city with a real ghetto and a high violent crime rate. You'll overdose on 'other people's business' and 'stories made up to get attention' in the first six months.

You'll also develop a special place in your heart for people who allege that others have committed crimes- based on nothing other than smack-talk and hearsay.

Desertfox
February 24, 2008, 06:51 PM
strange how this post swerved and curved to this point.

spctim11
February 24, 2008, 07:26 PM
I shot a pig earlier this month out at Pearl River WMA with my .40 you want to call LDWF on me. Do you know by their laws/rules I wasn't allowed to hunt pigs with a rifle. Go figure that out.

elrod
February 24, 2008, 09:26 PM
Sarge
You'll overdose on 'other folks business' and 'stories made up to get attention' in the first six months.


You nailed it! That was my thought as soon as I read the OP. Who was harmed? Feral pigs are a nusance. And this happened on a reserve. Some people need to choose their battles more carefully, IMHO. :rolleyes:

Art Eatman
February 25, 2008, 11:21 AM
"Hall Monitor Complex": Luvvit! I'm gonna steal it...

I won't lock this, since I've been as much of a pest as anybody, but why don't we just quit, now? Pretty please?

:D, Art

TNFrank
February 25, 2008, 01:56 PM
Handgun laws for big game in Tennessee are .24cal or larger, 4" barrel or longer, no FMJ or Ball ammo and that's about it. Personally, I'd not use a 9x19mm on hogs but I'm sure many have and many hogs have been killed with it.

freakshow10mm
February 25, 2008, 02:25 PM
In fact, a 9mm in Wisconsin is always illegal. The DNR has designated just what a "power factor" is for a pistol, and also the barrel length. I don't mean to speak in generalities, but this means you are limited to magnum firearms with barrels of more than five inches and turn-bolt pistols of rifle calibers.

This is absolutely 100% incorrect information. A 9mm in WI is LEGAL.

Handguns:
• To be legal for deer, handguns must use center-fire cartridges of .22 caliber or
larger and have a 5½ inch minimum barrel, measured from the iring pin to the
muzzle with the action closed.
• You may not possess a concealed handgun.
• Muzzleloading handguns, see “Muzzleloaders,” above.
• It is illegal to hunt with a handgun if under age 18

Now where does it say 9mm is illegal or there is any power factor involved?

The deer and black bear minimums are 5.5" from firing pin (breechface) to muzzle with action closed. This means that a 4 inch barreled revolver is actually longer than what the industry says. The industry doesn't count the cyclinder in the barrel measurement but the WI DNR says "from the firing pin to the muzzle with the actio closed" which also includes the cylinder.

A Ruger GP100 with industry 4 inch barrel plus the cylinder length is 5.6 inches from muzzle to firing pin with the action closed. This meets the barrel length requirement. Semi autos will have the chamber taken in the measurement so a four inch semi auto is a true four inches. In order for a semi auto to be allowed for hunting it will need at least a 5.5 inch barrel installed, which are available on the aftermarket.

In addition to revolvers that meet the barrel length requirement, don't forget the TC Encore and Contender single shot pistols, the Desert Eagle pistol, the Auto Mag pistols, etc.

The cartridge must be a .22 caliber centerfire or larger. So you can use a .22 Hornet if you want to.

wyocarp
February 25, 2008, 03:09 PM
It seems so many of us have so little to do but call "foul" for everything someone does wrong. Loosen the collar a little.

FrontSight
February 25, 2008, 11:57 PM
Aren't rats treated harshly in most parts of the world? I mean, every rat needs to squeak up if a lot of the cheese is getting taken away unfairly and blatantly; that's just a given and fair. But as a standard rule, most big rats, the real annoying kind, are not tolerated very well for very long, right?

Art Eatman
February 26, 2008, 10:00 AM
Scrap, I dunno about that. They keep getting re-elected...

Turkeyhead
February 26, 2008, 06:43 PM
I figure I'll toss my two cents into the fray here...

If you break a law, you are a criminal. It's as simple as that. How much of a criminal you are depends on the offense. A deer poacher is not, in my mind, as much of a criminal as a bank robber, but the deer poacher is still a criminal. The punishment may be as little as a small fine, whereas the bank robber will almost certainly face jail time.

My point is, stay on the straight and narrow, and things will sort themselves out.

TNFrank
February 26, 2008, 06:48 PM
Let me put it this way. I have a hard enough time when I go hunting legally for deer without having to deal with pochers taking all the game animals away from me in an illegal manner. Hunting laws are there for a reason. We have more whitetail deer in this country then when it was first settled by Eurpeans so the hunting laws must be doing some good and it's for our own good that we follow them.