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ohwoody
February 16, 2008, 10:22 PM
I had my local gun shop lap the rings on my mauser.After lapping he mounted the scope and laser boresighted it .He said after boresighting,I had about 1 turn to the right remaining..Using turn in mounts/rings and redfield 3x9 scope for a 200yd zero.Is this good enough to sight in or should I get it realigned.With the cost of ammo these days I dont want to waste alot of shots zeroing if there is not enough adjustment left.

Scorch
February 16, 2008, 10:32 PM
I am assuming these are Leupold or Redfield rings. Sounds like the front ring needs to be turned just a bit more and the rear ring aligned with it. Point to consider: just because the rifle is boresighted does not mean that is where it will shoot.

ohwoody
February 16, 2008, 11:38 PM
This is the first set of rings that I have had lapped.I figured that lapping should get it ,when boresighted,closer to the scopes mechanical center.The work was done at a fairly new gunshop.He is just getting into lapping rings and jeweling bolts.If I have to turn the front ring slightly to align,isnt the $40 lapping job wasted? The scope is an unused 70's Redfield 3x9 wideview accutrac/accurange.These scopes are hard to find,and I didnt want it twisted in the rings.

moredes15
February 17, 2008, 02:19 AM
I'm confused as a pig in a shirt. Which way is the scope out of adjustment, W or E?

How does lapping the rings help center the scope closer to its' mechanical center? Are we talking about the same thing? Lapping rings (to me) means 'polishing' the inside surfaces of the rings so that they are dead plumb lined up with each other; that way, the rings won't mar the scope tube because of a misalignment of either ring. If the scope base's screw holes are not drilled and tapped "perfectly" in line with the rifle bore, lapping won't help change the relationship between scope and boreline worthy of note (that is to say, if the scope base is mounted out of line with the barrel, lapping the rings will not help 'boresight' the scope any closer to the bore's POA).

What do ya'll mean when you say, "turn" the front ring? Do you mean cant (twist) it so it's direction bears left or right from its' current setting? That won't help at all; it'll be out of line (literally) with the rear ring. No twisting manipulation of either ring singly will solve the scope's lack of adjustment. If there's a windage adjustment on the rings, you might save the situation, or set of Burris Signature Zee rings with the polymer inserts might allow you to adjust for badly drilled scope mount holes.

Are you sure the shop mechanically zeroed the scope reticles? A lot of the time, shops just install scopes without setting the reticles to their mechanical zero. If you're running out of Elevation adjustment, that's a whole different matter; you can use a canted scope base in that case.

ohwoody
February 17, 2008, 02:19 PM
Moredes15,the windage is off.If the front ring isnt spuare to the bore,and/or the windage of the rear is not centered to the bore,the rings can be lapped to be straight with each other.It would be the same result as having the mounting holes drilled out of alignment.
If I use the windage of the adjustment of the rings,I will be slightly torqueing the scope against the front ring.I think the rings were adjusted for windage with the scope not at mechanical center.He then lapped the rings and boresighted.

To correct I will have to put the scope to mechanical center and readjust the rings windage to be straight with the bore.Basically ruining a $30 lap job and $10 boresighting.I used these rings because they are hand engraved to match the floorplate of the rifle.I just dont like paying for something that I have to redo myself.

moredes15
February 17, 2008, 03:40 PM
If the front ring isnt spuare to the bore,and/or the windage of the rear is not centered to the bore,the rings can be lapped to be straight with each other.It would be the same result as having the mounting holes drilled out of alignment.

I agree completely with what you've written here.

If I use the windage of the adjustment of the rings,I will be slightly torqueing the scope against the front ring.

I agree with this, too, if the windage adjustment is taken to 'excess' (and who knows what that limit is:rolleyes:), but it is a feature available on some rings that might help if the adjustment needed is minimal. In this case, with one minute of R adjustment left, it's obviously not 'minimal', so I'd agree, the rear ring's windage won't help.

In any case, I think the work is questionable enough that it needs to be redone--there's no way to prove they didn't install the scope with its' reticles centered. I'd also agree that that money has been wasted unless you can convince the shop of its' error.

To correct I will have to put the scope to mechanical center and readjust the rings windage to be straight with the bore.

I don't see how you can do this without causing some binding somewhere against the scope tube. If I understand this correctly, your rings are "turn-ins"--how will adjust the front one for windage if you can't shim it at the base?

ohwoody
February 17, 2008, 07:23 PM
I don't see how you can do this without causing some binding somewhere against the scope tube. If I understand this correctly, your rings are "turn-ins"--how will adjust the front one for windage if you can't shim it at the base?

The only thing I can do with the front ring is to use a T square to align with the barrel center.Then remount scope and hope binding is minimal.Pressure on the tube shouldnt be much due to the lapping that has been done.

The main reason I beleive the Redfield scope wasnt centered by the gunshop is I also had another rifle's rings lapped by him.This scope was a new in the box Leupold.It was done correctly,plenty of adjustment remain.The difference it was new scope and using Millett angle lock rings.

I just will not do business with him again.

Lazy D
February 18, 2008, 09:52 PM
If they used the standard Leupold style rings you should be OK to use the rear windage screws to adjust your initial zero. Lapping trues the rings on the X, Y, and Z axis. Run your scopes windage all the way left, then count the revolutions while you run it all the way back right. Then run it half way back to the middle and use the windage screws for initial adjustment. That gives you max windage adjustment available for that scope. The dovetail fronts are made to move when you adjust the windage screws.

http://www2.leupold.com/resources/MyInfo81/Answerbook/AnswerbookPage.aspx?AnswerbookPageId=79884b57-867a-4fdc-8231-dc100a7a709d

Scorch
February 19, 2008, 12:54 AM
If I use the windage of the adjustment of the rings,I will be slightly torqueing the scope against the front ring.Whatever else you do, DO NOT use the "windage" screws to try to move the scope. Take the scope out of the rings, loosen the screws and use a ring wrench (or a Crescent wrench if you have to) to turn the front ring. Then put the scope back in the rings, adjust it so the reticle is vertical, tighten the rings, and tighten the 2 screws on the base.

BTW, the screws are not for moving the rings or adjusting the scope, they are for locking the rear ring in position.

Lazy D
February 19, 2008, 07:34 AM
So,....I guess the folks at Leupold lied.:mad:
Or maybe they just don't know enough about scope, rings, or mounts. Hummmm

LouPran
February 21, 2008, 12:32 PM
I've always used my laser bore sighter to position the scope while in the zero position. 1 turn left isn't TOO bad , but I'd want better , personally.

I have to admit that I have used the windage screws to help coax the scope left or right. But only after getting it as close as I could with a wood dowel first. (I don't recommend a crescent wrench. Wooden dowels are much cheaper than a ruined Leopold wring) it's such a miniscule amount in most cases once this is done. I've never had a problem.

Alleykat
February 23, 2008, 11:35 AM
The dovetail fronts are made to move when you adjust the windage screws.


That's pure, unadulterated solid bovine excrement! Better think that one over!:D