PDA

View Full Version : Reduced Recoil 00 Buckshot--losses and gains??


Aqeous
February 11, 2008, 04:53 PM
This question has no doubt been asked before. With regards to Reduced Recoil 00 Buckshot, I have seen the ballistics, it patterns tight and penetrates surprisingly well.

But . . . we have to be loosing something when we use Reduced Recoil as oppose to standard 00. Don't we? Everyone who uses reduced loads speaks to how well they work . . . and yet I have never spoken to anyone (In real life or on the Internet) who has actually used a reduced load against anything living, and thus can not speak to its lethality in comparison to normal loads. (also I have not been able to find a single news report of someone actually using these loads in a real-life self-defense scenario.)

The caliber wars of handguns are well known (everyone thinks they know which caliber works the best) If we choose to load up our shotguns with reduced loads are we metaphorically turning a .45 ACP into a .380? Does anyone out there actually know for certain that reduced loads are pretty close to normal loads in the lethality department or are we all just guessing?

davlandrum
February 11, 2008, 05:50 PM
Aqeous - My understanding on the reduced recoil rifle ammo is that you lose the long-range end of the round, but within the more limited range, it is effective.

If that same logic applies to 00 Buck, I can't imagine it would be any less effective in an HD situation.

FWIW - this is pure speculation on my part. Hopefully someone really knows and answers

DrBart2
February 11, 2008, 06:25 PM
I have read that it is "supposed" to be just as effective as the regular load, but I too have doubts. I haven't seen any statistics or ballistics on this ammo. Whatever I use will be used at a distance of 30 feet or less. Hopefully not less!!

Aqeous
February 11, 2008, 09:06 PM
If you are interested here is a link that will take you to a ballistics test of 00 Reduced Recoil buckshot. If you explore the reset of the site you will find that numerous loads are tested including reduced recoil slugs.

http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_sub/gelatin_testing/buck_00_rem_tac/gelatin_buckshot_00_rem_tac.html

Aqeous
February 11, 2008, 09:27 PM
It is my thinking that when a sphere shaped projectile (a shotgun pellet) enters into a medium like living tissue each pellet is equivalent to a single round. I believe (if I am not mistaken) that each impact is relatively equivalent to a hit by a .22 caliber bullet. Thats 8 simultaneous .22 caliber impacts.

What looks to me as a real deciding factor is the tight patterns inherent to the reduced recoil loads. At extremely close ranges (like you would encounter when defending your home from an intruder in the middle of the night) the reduced loads end up behaving more like a fragmenting slug than and actual spread of ".22" caliber impacts.

According to the link I provided above manged recoil rounds look like this:

# Measured Average Permenant Cavity Penetration: 20.5 inches (52.1cm)
# Measured Temporary Stretch Cavity: 2.0 to 10.5 inches (5.1-26.7cm)

And standard rounds look like this:

# Measured Average Permenant Cavity Penetration: 21.0 inches (53.3cm)
# Measured Temporary Stretch Cavity: 0.5 to 16.5 inches (1.3 to 41.9 cm)

So it does seem pretty close. But like I said at closer ranges the normal 00 buckshot seems to be "Affecting" more flesh do to a slightly wider spread of shot. Could a wider spread of shot be comparable to a "larger caliber bullet" and a tighter shot at close ranges be compared to a "smaller caliber bullet"? I don't know, that's why I am asking. But I am kinda-sorta leaning in this direction.

Sadly until these loads begin to actually be used in real world experiences we may never REALLY know. But I think doubts of this kind may keep me from using the reduced recoil loads, even though the reduced muzzle flash and lighter recoil would be welcomed.

Double Naught Spy
February 11, 2008, 10:00 PM
I have never spoken to anyone (In real life or on the Internet) who has actually used a reduced load against anything living, and thus can not speak to its lethality in comparison to normal loads.

A bunch of police departments use it and have undoubtedly used it against living targets.

If you are worried as to lethality, you won't likely find any statistically different results at the shorter, more normal ranges where you are landing all your pellets on the target. Similarly, the differences between many 9mm and .45 acp loads are not statistically different even if .45 acp tends to produce better results (according to some evaluations).

It is my thinking that when a sphere shaped projectile (a shotgun pellet) enters into a medium like living tissue each pellet is equivalent to a single round. I believe (if I am not mistaken) that each impact is relatively equivalent to a hit by a .22 caliber bullet. Thats 8 simultaneous .22 caliber impacts.

If we are talking about 00 buck, I think you mean 32 caliber (plus or minus .01).

It should be pointed out that one company's reduced recoil loads may have comparable velocities to another company's standard loads.

Also, the one facet you may lose with reduced recoil loads is the ability of the loads to cycle some semi-auto actions.

Aqeous
February 11, 2008, 10:03 PM
"If we are talking about 00 buck, I think you mean 32 caliber (plus or minus .01)."


Thanks for the correction:)