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View Full Version : Self defense for the "defenseless".


ActivShootr
February 2, 2008, 11:00 AM
I have never given much thought to the matter of self defense for someone with a disability until I became disabled. I broke my foot a couple of weeks ago and I have to use crutches to get around. While my problem is only temporary (I hope) it still poses a question. What do I do for self defense? Being silly, I ziptied a holster to one of my crutches. But then what if a bg gets to it before I can? I tried carrying my 1911 on my hip but I ended up scratching one of the wood grips so that idea was out. I have taken to carrying a snub nosed .38 in my pocket. Hopefully 5 shots will buy me enough time to get to my shotgun :D What are some other sugestions for this self defense situation?

stephen426
February 2, 2008, 11:07 AM
I guess it depends on how disabled you are. If you are in a wheelchair, it is easy to conceal a holster near your hip. If you are on crutches, you could always opt for small of back carry or even Thunderwear type holsters. Maybe even switch to a smaller pocket gun for a while.

ActivShootr
February 2, 2008, 11:20 AM
I agree. Someone in a wheelchair has a few more options than someone on crutches. The person's arms would be free to get a weapon quickly. With crutches, I would have to let go of one, grab my weapon and either stand there or try to hobble to cover. I guess I would rather be in the cast a while longer than have an excess amount of holes. :)

Th0r
February 2, 2008, 05:29 PM
I think the disabled are at a higher risk than an ordinary citizen, because of various reasons. Carrying a holster would in theory seem like a good idea because the disabled and the elderly are far more vulnerable and susceptible to crime, as they cannot defend themselves in the same way a fit middle aged man would.
But yea. In a situation a wheel chair would be better than crutches.

armedandsafe
February 2, 2008, 06:16 PM
I use a shoulder holster when carrying a cane or on crutches. I bought a cheapy, without the cross-chest strap and had the shoe repair shopman move the holster so it would hang across my shirt pocket. With a blaser jacket or winter coat, it works fine.

Pops

MEDDAC19
February 2, 2008, 07:37 PM
Let's not forget, you have to very long clubs in each hand.:)

dresden8
February 2, 2008, 08:07 PM
Apparently in England the blind are stopping using the white stick as it singles them out for attack by feral children.

These "feral" children are becoming a huge problem over there and it's starting to become a problem here in Ireland as there is no counterbalance to their "human rights". They can literally get away with murder and there's nothing can be done. We're bad people if we punish children and send them to jail.

Ah well, as per the herd instinct, they might pass me by and pick on somebody else. It'll all be okay then.

ActivShootr
February 2, 2008, 11:18 PM
Let's not forget, you have to very long clubs in each hand.

Excellent point. The crutches themselves may be used as weapons.

My ambulatory skills are lacking right now so I am concerned about having to take evasive actions. I can move at about a fast walking pace and I could probably jump if the landing didnt matter too much. The problem would be moving and shooting. The idea seems a bit unsafe to me.

Hook686
February 3, 2008, 02:30 AM
I use a belly band. It allows me to locate the pistol just about anywhere on my torso. It is not for a 'quick draw', but then being disabled is not for a 'quick draw' anyway.

The Tourist
February 3, 2008, 03:16 AM
Apparently in England the blind are stopping using the white stick as it singles them out for attack by feral children.

It's too bad these "feral children" aren't eating song-birds or I'd have a ready answer for you. This kind of nonsense goes beyond a handicap and a need for security.

Believe it or not I saw a internet story (and trust me, I'm not sure if it's a hoax or not) where the Japanese have devised a pop-up cloak which resembles a coke machine for the owner to hide in during an attack.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/21/vending-machine-disguise-may-or-may-not-fool-criminals/

My only concern with a weapon for someone severely handicapped is further danger. Any low life who attacks an elderly or handicapped person might use their weapon against them.

And strange as it might seem, they might be better off with electric shock contact weapons, pepper spray, air horns or permanent ink markers.

ActivShootr
February 3, 2008, 10:59 AM
I think the physically disabled need weapons that if not kill their assailant at least instantly incapacitate them. Electric shock weapons are good but most allow the attacker to get too close for comfort and I'm not sure if tasers are legal. The weapon must be able to knock the attacker out for sufficent enough time for the victim to make an escape to find help or just get the hell away from there. I think a firearm is about the best choice for someone with a disability concerned with self preservation.

stephen426
February 3, 2008, 06:34 PM
I think the physically disabled need weapons that if not kill their assailant at least instantly incapacitate them. Electric shock weapons are good but most allow the attacker to get too close for comfort and I'm not sure if tasers are legal. The weapon must be able to knock the attacker out for sufficent enough time for the victim to make an escape to find help or just get the hell away from there. I think a firearm is about the best choice for someone with a disability concerned with self preservation.

I'm going to have to disagree here. Electric shock weapons are very effective defensive tools. In fact, the jolt from a tazer will normally drop a person immediately. There have been many instances of failure to stop from pretty much any handgun cartridges, despite good center of mass hits. I saw a guy get tazed and he dropped like a rock. With healthy individuals, death is very rare from tazer shocks. All police officers are required to get tazed (not actually required to have the barbs shot into them but tazed none the less). After speaking with several of them, they described it as immediately losing total motor control. I don't care if you are hyped up, hopped up, or drugged up... Tazers work against the nerves and muscles.

The down side of tazers are limited distance (15 feet at best) and only one shot per cartridge. Against multiple attackers, it is not ideal. Missing the target is also an ugly situation. The tazer can be used as a hand held stun gun after the darts are fired. Most on this forum are also hesitant to trust a battery operated device with their lives since Murphey and his stupid law like to rear their ugly heads at the worst times. However, the lithium batteries used by the Tazers have 10 years shelf lives and are unlikely to lose charge spontaneously.

I bought a tazer for my wife since I can't get her to go to the range and practice with me. She does not feel confident carrying a gun and does not do so. Even if she were to get nervous and taze an "innocent" person, there would be far lesser repurcussions than if she had shot someone. If she missed the bad guy, there is little chance for her to hit bystanders due to the limited range. Besides, I bought her the one with the laser on it. Most importantly, even if it was taken away from her and used on her by the bad guy, the effects are not nearly as damaging as a gunshot wound.

ActivShootr
February 3, 2008, 11:13 PM
Do you think a tazer would keep an attacker at bay long enough for me to hobble away? I just dont want to have to defend myself and have my defenses fail. If the attacker wasn't going to kill me before, he surely will want to after I spray/stun/taze him and it doesn't work.

stephen426
February 3, 2008, 11:44 PM
Do you think a tazer would keep an attacker at bay long enough for me to hobble away? I just dont want to have to defend myself and have my defenses fail. If the attacker wasn't going to kill me before, he surely will want to after I spray/stun/taze him and it doesn't work.

Civilian tazers are designed to be fired and dropped. They keep shocking the attacker for 30 seconds. Tazer will replace the unit for FREE if it is used in a self defense situation. 30 seconds should be plenty of time for you to get away. Besides, the guy I saw get tazed sure as heck was not going to be getting up and running after anyone after he got tazed.

Hook686
February 4, 2008, 07:43 AM
I think there are different levels of disability. An ambulatory disabled person might be quite proficient with a handgun and if a lethal threat is perceived, that might be what is needed to eliminate the threat. Even a 30 second head start will unlikely be enough to get too far away from such a threat, so I would choose the handgun.

Someone with severe physical disabilities that cannot demonstrate reasonable use of the weapon, ought not receive the permit in my opinion, and I am a disabled person. I do not know how that works in a 'Shall issue' jurisdiction, or in Vermont.

hogdogs
February 5, 2008, 09:29 AM
Having done permanent damage to my left hand and arm, I was a lefty, I had to rethink my self defense capacity. I do not live nor associate in areas known to criminals. However I like to have my guard up. I never would have thought twice to pop ANYONE in the mouth while I drew my buck 110 from my right back pocket. Now I can't make a substantial fist and haven't the strength to hold them off long enough. I have decided to add ccw to my options.
While a wheel chair may add hiding options it requires you to set down the gun in your lap if you must try to keep up with a BG set on staying in your blindside. I have a pretty close friend who is paralyzed and he does carry but he knows he must decide, draw and fire quick to maintain the upper hand in his survival!
Brent

tegemu
February 5, 2008, 12:49 PM
'Twould seem to me that wearing your holster at 4 o'clock or in the appendix position would pretty well keep it out of the path of your crutch.

ActivShootr
February 6, 2008, 03:33 PM
I have taken to wearing my sp101 IWB about 4 o'clock. It doesn't bang on my crutches and doesnt interfere with laying on the couch:D I just hope I never have to use it. I may try a belly band or something for walking around the block when I get the cast off. Got a few pounds to loose :o

markj
February 6, 2008, 04:16 PM
Broke my left foot awhile back, then year later the ankle on the same leg :(

Crutches are fine weapons and lend a long reach too. Never felt like a victim on them.

Pat-inCO
February 7, 2008, 06:41 PM
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23846/catid/14/The_Wilderness__039__Safepacker_Holster

MLeake
February 13, 2008, 08:44 AM
SigArms makes concealment jackets with built in holster pockets. If your weather is cold enough (jackets are heavy barn types), they might be an option while you are on crutches.

Night Watch
February 13, 2008, 04:24 PM
:) You need to develop superior powers of observation and personal alertness. The most dangerous thing for you is to fail to be aware - to fail to be one step ahead of the other guy.

('Orange' should become your favorite color!) :D

Proximity to your body becomes a liability; and, one of the first weapons an attacker will use against you is your own personal instability and lack of balance. Simply put: You can no longer afford to let the other guy get that close to you. With crutches (or a cane) in hand, you are going to be, 'preoccupied'; and all forms of preoccupation are primary target identifiers!

Someone who becomes unexpectedly handicapped soon discovers that life has - just as suddenly - changed in many subtle ways. What used to be normal reaction time and distance for you is now, at least, doubled.

If the attack is definitely on and coming in, you've got to be able to let go of your crutches, get your back against something solid, and (maybe) do some good floor shooting just like that Cruise guy did in, 'Collateral'. Trying to remain standing on your feet ('like a man') is a disadvantage; and, it is an especial disadvantage against multiple assailants, too.

Instead: Teach yourself how to fall backwards along one side of your body. Don't try to fall straight back; that's going to hurt! Rather learn how to fold one knee or the other and, 'roll' down and backwards along the edge of your body. Get down, get comfortable, and guard your back.

Personally, I have found nothing faster than a good shoulder rig; just remember that you need to use a tie-down to your belt on both sides. In your present situation, I'd recommend a reasonably priced Galco or Gould and Goodrich shoulder holster as your best carry option.

Use your head: Stay out of bad neighborhoods and don't go out at night anymore than you really have to. Try to move around with others and avoid solo adventures whenever possible. The facts that pepper spray or a TASER might be effective weapons for normal healthy people are non-sequiturs.

You are handicapped; and, the sooner you learn how to effectively live with this reality, the better! So what if pepper spray is like hot sauce to many of the wrong people? So what if TASERS don't work all of the time? The important point you have to recognize is that any attempted use of these devices violates the paramount requirement for you to be able to keep an attacker as far away from your body as possible. If an attacker is already within 20 or 25 feet of you - YOU'RE SCREWED! :eek:

A normal healthy person is barely able to successfully handle a physical attack from such close range. Unless the other guy either trips or otherwise hesitates, you positively will not be! On the other hand, in spite of your handicap, giving yourself a little additional time or distance might very well save you; and, no matter what, 3 or 4 rounds of 45 acp always works - Just put 'um COM between the head and pelvic girdle!

Your own everyday personal attitude has a lot to do with the extent to which others perceive how vulnerable you are to successful attack. Being a little bit more alert, being one step ahead of the other guy, and being completely ready and willing to commit yourself to whatever has to be done is - I am certain - the best way to dissuade any thug from, either, initiating or following through with an attack.

One of the most useful self-defense techniques I know of - and one I've actually seen save a couple of lives - is a ready willingness to forcefully command; 'STOP!' 'DON'T COME ANY CLOSER!' 'I'M AFRAID OF YOU!' 'I'VE GOT A GUN; AND, I KNOW HOW TO USE IT!' 'GO AWAY!' 'GO AWAY, NOW!'

(I don't believe there's a police officer on the planet who would fault a handicapped person from the early display of a firearm. I really don't!)

It, also, helps to practice a lot and be a very good - albeit one legged - combat pistol marksman! In my experience, you're only a potential victim until the moment that they either hear your voice or look directly into your eyes. No matter how badly you limp, or how much trouble you may have getting around, that's when the men quickly get separated from the boys! :eek:






Oh, yeah, if you've got a large dog that helps, too! ;)

Erik
February 13, 2008, 08:11 PM
"What do I do for self defense?"

Folks with temporary, or permanent, mobility issues such as you're experiencing may want to explore impact and edged weapon potentials in case the contact you'll find harder to avoid occurs.

ActivShootr
February 13, 2008, 11:22 PM
Excellent post Night Watch. New update: I am off the crutches and into the Robo-Boot. It is a vile contraption but I am back on two wheels now :). On the bright side, the boot, while cumbersome, provides excellent concealment for a weapon.

tennesseeNick
February 14, 2008, 02:02 PM
I have the same type of temporary problem with my shoulder. I had surgery on my strong-side shoulder about 1.5 months ago, but I'm still not strong enough to pull the slide on my pistol. Thanks to the advice I read on these forums, I learned that hooking the rear sights on your belt is a very effective way to rack the slide :D. Also, learned that I need to practice quite a bit on my weak arm shooting, as it is sorely lacking...

I don't have my carry permit (yet), so the carry issue wasn't huge for me. What got to me was the huge feeling of vulnerability when walking around. Getting in and out of the car took quite awhile - I would have made a very easy target for someone wanting a free car.

IdahoG36
February 14, 2008, 05:50 PM
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but this question reminded me of the sword canes Cold Steel sells. They look just like a normal cane. That would allow a person with a disability to carry a weapon without it being obvious.

http://www.coldsteel.com/88scm.html

armedandsafe
February 14, 2008, 08:34 PM
However, you have to be able to stand up and move well enough to use it.

I would prefer the crutch which breaks down to a .454 Casul. :D :eek: :D

Pops

grey sky
February 15, 2008, 05:52 AM
Too bad they are way not leagal here . ARE they anywear ?? Still a stout stick is preferable to the empty hand Remember the bayonett drill works the same way . Thrust, butt stroke, Butt smash downward slash , repeat.

thmsmgnm
February 26, 2008, 07:21 PM
Feral children wandering the street victimizing the lame, the blind, and the aged.:mad:

I have an overwhelming desire to travel to England wander around the fair *cough* cities wearing sunglasses and carrying a white cane made out solid steel. Teach those little bastard to screw with the weak and disabled.:mad:

Seriously a stout cane made out of a heavy, dense wood topped with a brass head and a solid steel tip (cover with that rubber thingy), sounds better than nothing. I still prefer a 1911.

thmsmgnm

ECHOONE
March 10, 2008, 07:44 PM
On a different note about disabled people aside from carry, you would think someone would amend the law for the use of deadly force for these people I know a guy who has severe spinal problems, doctors have told him just someone hitting him could paralize him for life if not kill him. So this guy doesn't need someone to shoot him just some bully nut job to smack him upside his head and he's a gonener, so when should he shoot to defend himself?

Shadi Khalil
March 10, 2008, 08:11 PM
It would be nice if you could rig up some sort crutch-gun.

shinnery jim
March 10, 2008, 09:37 PM
ok guys, I am one of the guys you are talking about. I`m in a wheelchair for the rest of my life. I`m parilized from the ribs down, and have lost one leg. I am in a motorized wheel chair. not because I cant use a regular one but because I like to be outside most of the time. and in the dirt around here I aint going very far, it is real sandy.

now as to handleing a gun I am quite good at it and dont worry about that part of the game. but I still have to be careful when getting in and out of the van.

I have it a lot better than some of the people out there. I have good upper body strength. that gives me an edge on most. but still you are right in the fact that I cant get in action as fast as I could before I was put in this chair.

I ead with interest what you all have been talking about. I still like the idea of one of my guns over about anything. It is just me. I dont have a problem with useing it if the need arises.