View Full Version : Feral cat hunting
January 19, 2008, 10:12 AM
As you probably all heard, they tried to legalize feral cat hunting in the state of Wisconsin. Well the lefties won over, so now we just hunt them using the SSS method.
Shoot, Shovel, Shutup.
I will make an attempt at attaching a photo of one of our feral cat hunts:)
January 19, 2008, 10:26 AM
There was an article in (I vaguely recall) "Sports Afield", some ten years back. It referenced a study done by the Wisconsin bug'n'bunny agency, using a bunch of wildlife biology grad students.
Conclusions: One feral cat will kill as many as 100 songbirds a year. Estimate: As many as a million feral cats in the state of Wisconsin.
You do the math.
Also, it was stated that at one time the state REQUIRED hunters to shoot any feral cat that was seen. They were smarter, back then...
NOTE: We're not talking about Persian Fluffy in town, in the house, in your lap. "Feral". Look it up.
January 19, 2008, 01:36 PM
what would you use for feral cats?
ive got quite a few wild ones that live near my house and i doubt that you could get them to provide a still target.
Shotguns? varmint rifles?
January 19, 2008, 01:51 PM
I've heeeeaaaard that the Ruger 883SS in 22magnum is just the ticket. But what do I know, this is just what I have heard. So take it for what it is worth, I have no experience with feral cats.
January 19, 2008, 02:33 PM
Whatever's handy will work on Feral Felines. Running? Shotguns are good. My old Model 12 30" full choke is extra-full with modern plastic shot-holders, so high-brass 7-1/2s are good to 35 yards or so. :)
A .243 is sorta ruinacious...
January 19, 2008, 04:15 PM
Here in Florida they are are classified as "invasive predatory specie" and we are encouraged to kill them. I hold a Nuisance Wildlife Permit and can actually charge for the "service" if I desire.
Weapon of choice is .22lr, .22mag, .17hmr, 20 gauge shotgun loaded with #6 or #4. But a .30-30 or even a .300WM is fun as well!
January 19, 2008, 05:04 PM
use of a shovel is a sign of guilt.
January 19, 2008, 06:33 PM
I've had to thin the resident feral feline population before. My favorite is the Rem 511 and an old El Paso K4 Weaver. Sighted dead on at 25 and right between the eyes. I've also used the .222,.22-250 and a 12 with high base heavy field loads of #5. The time I see a cat hunting in the field I watch closely to see if it belongs to the owner (collar) or not. Bang, flops for a minute and back to the hunt. I don't mention it; not worth the time to explain; and if I have to explain they wouldn't understand anyway. CB.
January 19, 2008, 06:42 PM
Up here we can shoot them no problem. 22WMR is nice for the job but not very exciting. 25WSSM is cool:D
January 19, 2008, 06:58 PM
on a still shot a .22LR hi-velocity will do the job with good placement (i.e. in the ear) moving or in brush a 12 ga. w/high-brass 5's or even 4's. a 20 ga. likewise will do. I have a Burris 3X9 glass on my AMT. I use ripe sardines to lure them in. they come a'running.:D
January 19, 2008, 11:19 PM
I use a .44 special silvertip in a nef Handi-rifle 44mag with a silencer. That way I don't wake the neighbors.
January 20, 2008, 08:27 AM
Still say the 22wmr is the "cats meow"
Anything bigger and you are just going to ruin the pelt:)
January 20, 2008, 11:22 AM
.17 HMR should do fine for some long shots. I'd use the CCI TNT rounds in 17 grain.
January 24, 2008, 10:15 PM
any .22 calibur round would work fine. But i think i would prefure a shotgun.
January 24, 2008, 11:45 PM
We aren't supposed to shoot feral cats around here (yet), but all you need is a .22LR. I've had many housecats over the years, and they're not particularly tough critters.
January 25, 2008, 01:50 AM
What's up with all the big calibers. All you need is CCI CB Short 29gr. There sub-sonic and very very quite when shot out of a rifle, My K-22 sounds like a cap-gun. All you need is 1 shot to the head, and They fall on the spot.
January 25, 2008, 03:17 AM
I'm a dyed-in-the-wool powder burner myself... but what about those proclaimed 1000fps air rifles? I would think they would do the trick to clean out the critters' ears pretty well. (?)
January 25, 2008, 01:26 PM
If was pretty sure all my shots would be under 50 yards I would only take the Gamo Shadow 1,000 .177. But for shots out to the 100 yard mark we need the .22LR or for fun the 20ga slug!
January 25, 2008, 08:33 PM
What to hunt feral cats with.
January 25, 2008, 08:42 PM
Yup, that would get em.
January 25, 2008, 08:44 PM
We aren't supposed to shoot feral cats around here (yet), but all you need is a .22LR. I've had many housecats over the years, and they're not particularly tough critters.
The stock on my Remington 810 target master would argue that:D
January 25, 2008, 09:30 PM
I understand the problems feral cats pose, but I'm also a lifetime cat owner. I sincerely hope that anyone hunting feral cats is making sure you're actually culling feral cats and not killing somebody's pet.
January 25, 2008, 09:34 PM
I always check there tags to see if they are in season:D:D:D
January 25, 2008, 09:35 PM
Yeah, not funny. Not to me, anyway.
January 25, 2008, 10:07 PM
I use a .44 special silvertip in a nef Handi-rifle 44mag with a silencer. That way I don't wake the neighbors.
What can are you using on that NEF?
January 25, 2008, 10:34 PM
I shot a cat with a 45-70 before.
January 25, 2008, 10:36 PM
I sincerely hope that anyone hunting feral cats is making sure you're actually culling feral cats and not killing somebody's pet.I own a cat as well, but I don't worry about anyone killing it. Because I care about its wellbeing and don't want it to be injured by other animals, exposed to diseases or run over and because I don't want it to be a nuisance to my neighbors, it is not allowed to run free.
In my opinion the fact that an animal is allowed to run free is ample evidence that the owner doesn't care about it or me.
January 25, 2008, 10:36 PM
Yeah, not funny. Not to me, anyway.
I am just joking. I have cats as well I would be pissed if someone shot them, mind you I keep them on my own land.
January 26, 2008, 12:07 AM
Forgive my stupidity, but I always wondered what Feral Cats looked like....
so I googled it and got to see their pictures....
so I was like duuhh.... they just look like house cats gone stray...
January 26, 2008, 12:31 AM
that's what the definition of "feral" is..
January 26, 2008, 04:08 AM
I've only ever shot one cat.
Not really feral, but still nuisance, and I dispatched it cleanly with one shot from my scoped 10/22, right behind the ear at about 25 yards. I just waited under the porch for it to give me an open still shot, and the thing never left where it was standing.
January 26, 2008, 08:00 AM
Seems to me that part of controlling your environment--from a self defense standpoint--is knowing your environment. Part of that knowledge involves knowing who are your neighbors, what sort of vehicles they have, what they do for a living--and what pets they have.
IOW, even in town in a residential neighborhood, you should know who and what belongs there. It's much easier out in the country.
If I'm out in the pasture, and the cat I see is not one that belongs to some neighbor, it's obviously feral. "Sayonara, Feral Feline."
And, there is always the hard fact that I attach a higher moral value to native quail, over an introduced non-native predator.
January 26, 2008, 08:40 AM
If a landowner tells me which cats by appearance are off limits they get a free pass. But I am offended when someone says "What if it is MY cat you shot?"
Well than I woulda been trespassin on your land or in yer home... If it is on someone elses land or state land than you are in violation in most jurisdictions anyway.
I own several high strung hog hunting dogs and when I lived in the city I had to worry that a stray cat would get one or more of my dogs to bust the fence giving chase and end up car hit or arrested in doggy jail for doing what most dogs do... keeping their yard free of invaders while also scoring a fresh meat meal! Yes... I have several dogs that will consume their kill unlike most feral cats that kill just to kill quite often.
We have a city park I am itching to clean up! Someone has been feeding them for at least 2 years... I mean a 5 pound bag of food per day! Since it is in town and in close proximity to homes it would be an air rifle job but I could get 30 in 2 days probably!
January 26, 2008, 12:27 PM
^^ Who do you think is feeding the cats?
Cant they be fined? as here in NYC I think you can be fined feeding pigeons.
January 26, 2008, 01:04 PM
Here is my dilemma... I am a licensed nuisance animal trapper (trapper is the name the state put, we can use any legal take method). Yes the person and should be fined. However if the problem of the near hundred cats is not FULLY addressed than you remove the food source they will kill even more wildlife while they slowly starve out. Also they will disperse making it awful hard to eliminate them.
Where I am at is quite a rural area. The animal control officers will, at no charge to the caller, come out assess the situation, place traps (60-70 bucks each), bait them and return everyday checking them. When they capture one it goes to "center" it gets all of it's shots and gets to hang out for week eating food until no one claims it... than it gets killed by a hired vet. It was told to me that the cost is several hundred to a thousand dollars per cat in MY taxpayer dollars for this service. Who is going to show up and claim a loose, wild cat? They make poor pets if they are use to living wild.
Who would, as an individual, call me to do a service I MUST at least have my expenses covered for? I assure you I am humane but gas ain't cheap and bait ain't free so I get something.
At this point my only option is to offer my service to the city and county. That is a hard sell I don't know how to do...
I am just an uneducated redneck gonna try to sell the notion of quick humane eradication payed for with a SMALL % of the taxpayer dollars used to do the job now, to a bunch of politicians and resident council folks?
"What if shoot someones pet?" So frickin' what? it was loose and the fines for this would offset the "love" the owner feels?
BTW I also will target squirrels, possum, coons and many other nuisance critters MAINLY love to get on hogs... I ain't just a cat killer.
January 26, 2008, 02:40 PM
It all depends on the size of the cat and I run into the following;
50 Meter Cat - Pellet head shot
100 Meter Cat - .22 L.R. Head Shot
200 Meter Cat - .22 WMR Rib Cage & up
As previously stated: Shoot, Shovel and Shut-Up
Use of a shovel is a sign of discretion !!! :p :p
January 26, 2008, 05:02 PM
To illustrate the magnitude of the problem in some areas: My wife's "micro-empire" is in rural south Georgia. Maybe ten neighboring homes within the immediate two-mile vicinity.
The next-door lady loves cats. Feeds cats. Has had many "house cats" inside, but they run loose during the day and there's food in bowls outside.
The animal shelter folks finally came out to reduce the numbers, via trapping. In a period of just over a month, from the nearby woods, they trapped seventy-two (72) cats. Seventy-two!
I hadn't seen a squirrel, rabbit or songbird in years. Now, there are a few around.
January 26, 2008, 05:08 PM
Wow Art, tell my wife that and she'd be there with my entire vault of weaponry in tow. She hates cats with a passion! :D
January 26, 2008, 06:17 PM
Do you pelt them?? One furbuyer of years ago had cat hides on the fur tag that had to be completed for all shipments.
January 26, 2008, 06:53 PM
If I was an AVID yote hunter i would have a bait pile goin'. I have no desire to skin them out as i have no decent market to sell the hides. It is a simple slit to drop the gut and toss to a hungry bulldog...
I have several of them to choose from...
Nowadays I doubt a furrier could buy them in the USA...
January 26, 2008, 10:21 PM
The animal shelter folks finally came out to reduce the numbers, via trapping. In a period of just over a month, from the nearby woods, they trapped seventy-two (72) cats. Seventy-two!Years ago my father finally became fed up with the huge number of strays around his house and bought a Havahart trap. He rapidly lost track of how many he trapped & turned over to animal control, but at the beginning, it was not uncommon to go out during the day and count 20 to 30 strays/ferals visible at one time. One or more of the neighbors was putting out food for them.
It was interesting to see the local small wildlife populations slowly recover when the cat infestation was eliminated.
What's really insidious is that the normal predator/prey balances do not exist for feral cats when people feed them. In a normal situation, a predator population rise results in a prey population drop which, in turn, causes the predator population to drop as well. The system has a built-in feedback control system that insures the predator can not wipe out the prey population. When people feed feral cats, that control system is lost. The predator population is not dependent on the prey population for sustenance. That allows predators to hunt their prey into extinction
January 27, 2008, 03:30 AM
I'm just having a difficult time wrapping my brain around this. Wouldn't an exploded population of feral cats also lead to increased numbers of yotes, stray dogs, skunks (from free food left out), and Lord knows whatever other kinds of critters? Seems fox and yotes would go nuts over mobile meals that are easier to chase than jackrabbits. I unnertand that not every place is like my Tx Panhandle home- but aren't several parts of the US annoucing increased yote numbers and problems?
January 27, 2008, 04:20 AM
Feral cats, as all things in nature, are part of a balance. Yes, they might kill songbirds, but they also kill mice and rats.
The one thing in life that troubles me, and has absolutely no use whatsoever in nature, are bubbas and townies.
I'd raise a predator solely to eat them, if I could find an animal dumb enough with a taste and palate aptly coarse to actually stomach that much fat and red fannel.
Thankfully there are explosives which they foolishly handle, worn out brake shoes, faulty lightening rods, saloon bets, genetic damage from inbreeding, and falling down steps when drunk. All as Darwin outlines.
The townie population controls itself, so cats I don' worry about. Perhaps there should be a college study to find out how much damage the human race endures from idiots.
January 27, 2008, 09:16 AM
January 27, 2008, 09:44 AM
I have a couple cats. One is just an overgrown kitten and it stays in the house all the time for now. The other spends about half her time in the outdoors but tends to hang around the house. Both were strays that just made a home at our house when they were kittens.
I have no hesitation to shoot a cat in the woods that has no collar. A 22 rifle works just fine. If it has a collar, it gets a pass. I don't shoot them around the house as I live in a subdivision. I've seen stray kittens that are now full grown cats. Somebody is feeding them.
I get rather pissed when I find a new litter of kittens in my garage from some cat.
January 27, 2008, 10:40 AM
Tourist, "balance of nature" is a nice buzzword, but feral cats are far more an "imbalance of nature".
Coyotes and foxes subsist nicely on mice and such. They kill for food, not for the fun of it. Feral cats, just like housepet cats, will kill beyond any need for food. If you've ever had a cat and watched the behavior, this should have become quite obvious to you. In the wild, you can occasionally find where a feral cat has killed an entire covey of quail in a night--and eaten but one or two. The common predation reduction of a covey tends toward approximately 40%.
Expansion of a feral cat population means a serious degradation of the balance of nature, insofar as carrying capacity of a habitat: Far fewer squirrels, rabbits, game birds and songbirds. Mice, rats and snakes comprise an important part of an ecosystem as well.
January 27, 2008, 10:42 AM
Sorry The Tourist, but you're wrong. Feral cats are NOT a part of nature, they are an introduced species, an alien animal that when put into an ecosystem can throw it dramatically out of balance. This is why almost all alien species have shoot on sight seasons (nutria, starlings, pigs, European sparrows and pidgeons, etc.). Unfortunately, some destructive animals like cats and horses are cute, so when they go wild and begin destroying the environment, people with NO understanding of nature demand they not be controlled. It's more than a little ridiculous.
January 27, 2008, 12:19 PM
Sorry The Tourist, but you're wrong.
No, I sincerely believe that the rampant inbreeding of drunken townies causes more damage to the environment than small animals. Just the intoxicated destruction of green felt on pool tables has to be quite pricey.
For decades I have watched one gaggle of bubbas foster another generation, and then another generation--destroying the double-wide populated spawning ground where the culling sound of the Home Shopping Network and Oprah provide the siren sound for their expansion. I can't even figure out how many Chinese factories are running full-tilt, consuming precious resources, to weave enough red flannel to cover the slobbering beasts.
Fortunately, they usually electrocute each other with tinfoil placed into microwaves.
My point is this. Foolish acts by humans, especially toothless townies, destroy more of the hunting and fishing areas than any little animal. I've found Mountain Dew cans in the woods, cigarette butts in The Badlands and aluminum Blazer 9mm cases in the prairie dog towns in The National Grasslands.
What, 9mm cases in dog towns? I suppose black-footed ferrets also listen to rap music.
Remember, we're the good guys. And that also means we're not slob hunters. Nor should we defend such actions. I think I know these guys pretty well.
I cannot remember where, either here or in TheHighRoad, but a forum member reports uninvited hunters ignoring his "No Trespassing" signs and shooting family dogs.
If destruction of wilderness areas is a "shooting offense," does that mean I get to shoot 4-wheelers who rip up mud for sport?
January 27, 2008, 03:28 PM
Wouldn't an exploded population of feral cats also lead to increased numbers of yotes, stray dogs, skunks (from free food left out), and Lord knows whatever other kinds of critters? Seems fox and yotes would go nuts over mobile meals that are easier to chase than jackrabbits.Perhaps. I was talking primarily about a suburban environment in the example I gave. In that situation, the animals you describe (with the possible exception of small stray dogs) are not going to increase to any significant extent because people won't tolerate them the way they tolerate feral cats.
The point is that when a predator is given an unending food supply, it creates a situation where the natural balances are disrupted.Remember, we're the good guys. And that also means we're not slob hunters. Nor should we defend such actions. I think I know these guys pretty well.Eliminating feral animals is a responsible measure. I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting should happen to the "townies & bubbas" but I SINCERELY hope that it's irrelevant to and out of the context of shooting feral animals.
At any rate, the fact that there are other threats to the fauna does not change the fact that feral cats are a damaging influence and that responsible hunters should do what they can to minimize that damaging influence in a humane manner.
January 27, 2008, 05:07 PM
"...that responsible hunters should do what they can to minimize that damaging influence in a humane manner."
I'm all for that.
What I have a problem with are people who simply hate cats and will blow them away or do terrible, cruel things to them with glee--without caring or bothering to make sure the cat is a stray. Reading through some of the posts in this thread, I think there are a few of these people right here on TFL.
January 27, 2008, 05:18 PM
so your job is like Jim Carreys "Ace Ventura Pet detective" huh?
January 27, 2008, 06:01 PM
As you probably all heard, they tried to legalize feral cat hunting in the state of Wisconsin. Well the lefties won over, so now we just hunt them using the SSS method.
Shoot, Shovel, Shutup.
So the message is that you only obey the laws that you happen to agree with? Great for the image of gun owners and legitimate hunters. I don't see how you can know if the cat is a stray that might have wandered from home (as cats do) or a feral cat. I would be curious if you would be as supportive of shooting "wild dogs."
"Please don't shoot." "I promise I'm not a feral cat, honest."
January 27, 2008, 06:27 PM
Dogs running loose in deer habitat can be shot during a hunt. The laws are in place to keep loose dogs from running deer to death. The law USED to be that feral cats were to be shot on sight to relieve the predation on songbirds and game birds raising young. IIRC these were enacted during the Great Depression. Does anyone think cats and dogs have evolved into thinking individuals since then? Dogs run deer; it's part of their fabric of being; cats kill for the act of killing well beyond the need for food. Feral cats are everywhere, and the people that feed them are NOT helping to control their population. Everybody has a soft spot for kitty kitty that comes up and rubs themselves against your leg. Too bad those people haven't had the opportunity to watch a feral cat hunting. If it doesn't have a collar I watch them very closely. Through the crosshairs.
January 27, 2008, 06:57 PM
I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting should happen to the "townies & bubbas"
Just a touch of irony and humor. The thrust of the debate is to kill things that upset a balance in nature. Most of the posters were all for killing cats. I simply suggested we start with the real villians first. All of a sudden I'm the bad guy.
What I have a problem with are people who simply hate cats and will blow them away or do terrible, cruel things to them with glee--without caring or bothering to make sure the cat is a stray.
And that's my point. As I mentioned, one member (I believe a THR) mentioned that trespassers had killed three of his dogs.
Frankly, I wish the penalties for slob hunters were even more draconian. Sometimes the DNR can confiscate their trucks and guns and level a hefty fine. I wish they would implement restrictions similar to The Lautenberg Act.
Act like a slob, lose your hunting rights in Wisconsin for life.
What are some of the biggest problems we complain about? Why, it's public land closing, hunting restrictions (like "earn a buck") and pressure to regulate firearms more and more every year.
Who do the lefties point to? Why they characterize us as drunken, law breaking inbreds. Why does it work? Well, it's because there really are such things as drunken, law breaking inbreds who violate (poach deer) and act like my entire state is thier toilet.
If you want to shoot crows, doves and feral cats, then let's see the guidelines. And as a voter I can assure you that restrictions won't allow a guy named Clem with a huge candle-power light blasting away at every shadow. We have enough of those guys.
The DNR here actually has a "statue of a deer," (yes, a fake deer) that townies blast away at during stings.
January 27, 2008, 07:28 PM
The thrust of the debate is to kill things that upset a balance in nature.I understand your point, but equating killing feral cats with murder is a bit over the top.Act like a slob, lose your hunting rights in Wisconsin for life.Assuming that there was an objective definition of "acting like a slob" I'd be all for that--and I don't know any hunters who would feel differently....one member (I believe a THR) mentioned that trespassers had killed three of his dogs.The idea that killing feral animals is in any way analogous to shooting someone's pets on that person's property gives me considerable heartburn. That is like saying that picking up litter is the same thing as stealing from someone's front yard.If you want to shoot crows, doves and feral cats, then let's see the guidelines.I don't know the laws everywhere, but in TX the only regulation restricting the killing of feral animals that I'm aware of says that the animal may not be killed "in a cruel manner".
January 27, 2008, 07:44 PM
Just using a bit of humor, here, nothing else.
Wayward_Son mentioned guys who would thrill kill. It was that segment of society I was equating with slob hunters who kill dogs on posted land.
And Wisconsin is a whole different kettle of fish. Just as we have slob hunters, and out of staters who consider my entire state to be a 'rental car,' we also have tremendous pressure from the left on all guns.
Feral cats are just what is a current debate. We cheeseheads have heard all of this windmill fuel several times over on the ideas of killing crows and expanding rights to the hunting of doves.
You know as well as I do that some bubba or a slob hunter is going to thrill kill a cat wearing a collar. You also know that when the government takes away a right they usually go overboard and it's next to impossible to get a repeal. It took bikers ten years to overturn the helmet law that no one ever really wanted. (We build Harleys in Milwaukee, the birthplace.)
If I had my way I'd recommend a seven day waiting period on the purchase of double-wides, the mandatory use of condoms by any purchaser therein with eleven toes, and no cable service of the Oprah Winfrey show if your butt is bigger than the hood of your pick-em-up truck.
Once under control, we'll talk about feral cats...
January 27, 2008, 11:27 PM
It is difficult to determine what a feral cat is. If it is a feral cat, I'm all for their elimination in a responsible way. Some farmers have cats around to keep the vermine population under control. I doubt any of those cats ever come inside their house, but they are the farmer's cats all the same. Some would consider them feral; in fact most would. They certainly don't haul them to the vet for shots.
I keep hoping the local cats would do something to control the tree rat population. Most seem to ignore the squirrels, but killling a juicy cardinal is a major victory.
January 27, 2008, 11:54 PM
In the final analysis, and for this debate, the prospect of including the shooting of feral cats is a Wisconsin matter.
We have our own politics, our own sensibilities, with the top third of the state so different from the bottom that they could be a separate state--which has been discussed.
We had a dove hunting issue that caused a bitter division among our citizens and hunters. At some periods we have a truly spooky increase in the number of crows.
To that, we have slob hunters and out of staters.
And I'm not kidding about idiots. One local farmer takes bright orange spray paint and writes the word "COW" on his cattle during deer season. These nuts will shoot at anything. The woman who sang at my wedding is a platinum blonde. In her full length blaze orange coveralls she still got shot at--while in tree stand.
Well, townies love the taste of orange flying cows.
Serously, we don't need more stupid divisive issues here. We have just concluded a dismal hunt, we are still trying to pass our CCW, the lefties are stirring the pot for liberal presidential candidates, and our bubbas have enough to shoot at.
If you're a Madison townie and your third grade son is reading you this thread, don't get angry. Slip off your boots, count to eleven and take a deep breath. You can get Oprah on cable in about 45 minutes.
January 28, 2008, 12:49 AM
I also like the .22 Magnum- but when -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- is fast and furious down at the local dump, nothing beats a 12 guage....
January 28, 2008, 02:20 AM
WOW this discussion has run the gamut and not gone to chit!
Tourist, even a thrill kill is worth while on a feral cat.
As for dogs... dogs are not on my permit as they are defined by florida law as "property" so I am never legally hired to eradicate them. I can, trap them and turn them over to Animal Control. cats are defined as "INVASIVE PREDATORY SPECIE" this is why they are fair game. Even with a brand new diamond studded collar and sporting shiny NEW tags... if it is loose and not on "THE OWNERS LAND" They are FAIR GAME! I actually kinda collect them!
As far as Ace Ventura.... No I liken myself more towards the 1970 or so character portrayed by Jan Michael Vincent in "The Mechanic". I take my jobs serious. I do my best to prevent "collateral" damage which will get me kicked off a job as well. My next purchase in long guns is a .17HMR but need a big job to justify the purchase.
January 28, 2008, 10:28 AM
prairieviper, have you read all the way through the thread? Your question might have made sense had it been early on. At this point, however, it does not at all seem germane to the discussion.
And the issue of slob hunters has no place in this thread...
January 28, 2008, 10:42 AM
a responsible pet (cat) owner would nueter, spay and declaw their pet - and have a collar w/bells on it. if a cat is free to roam and breed uncontrolled it's a danger to small game/birds pure and simple. they're not indigenous species to N. America. even a spayed female cat will hunt. a buddy farmer I know has a couple around his barns - he puts out feed occasionally for them and if the cats breed he whacks 'em hisself. the cats understandably 'shy away' from him!
January 28, 2008, 11:10 AM
Gentlemen, this is potentially one of the most serious discussions for us hunters.
Over recent years the Animal Rights Activist has paired with the conservationist and this has done us a powerful diservice as we used to be at the forefront of conservation.
The -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- is such a destructive predator and destroyer of wildlife that no serious conservationist can afford to tolerate the cat for 5 mins.
This has the capacity to split atvist from conservationist- with broader benefits for us.
January 28, 2008, 11:12 AM
a responsible pet (cat) owner would nueter, spay and declaw their pet
Amen to that.
While not the main thrust of the OP, the concept of responsibility here is an important subtext.
Neuter your pets, solve the problem. And with that comes the same old mantra, "20% do 80% of the work." And if a guy is a bubba he's going to be a slob in his own ways as well as in my state.
Wisconsin has always been a hunting, fishing and tourist mecca. We also suffer from sloth, over crowded parks, slob hunters and congested highways. Many of us wonder if the tourist dollar is worth the headaches. You can't stop Americans from traveling, but someone has to pay for the mess. My solutions is to jack up fees for outsiders, and I mean way up. You make a mess, you clean it up.
And now we discussing even more possibilities for irresponsible people to act in my state. Yikes.
Pretty soon Leupold is going to have the "Feline Series." A new product with the reticles set for domestic use.
January 28, 2008, 12:24 PM
What are the odds...I was reading these posts on my blackberry while in a cab going home...when I get home, I walk right up to the garbage cans to put them on the curb, and I hear the craziest snarling across the street, and I turn around to see 2 house cats (now "feral", I guess) fighting the nastiest cat fight I've ever seen. I had been reading this topid not 30 seconds earlier.
Made me wish for a high powered bb gun and the legal backing to take em both out.
January 28, 2008, 01:24 PM
prairieviper, I've been thinking a bit more about your question, "So the message is that you only obey the laws that you happen to agree with?"
To some extent, yeah, sure. If a law is the product of a great amount of public emotion, catered to by some legislative body that knows or cares little about the reality of a situation, I'm gonna ignore all but the Eleventh Commandment aspect: "Thou shalt not get caught."
I'm talking about physical reality, here; not any sort of spoiled brat, "But I wanna...!"
Example of my thinking about laws and wildlife: I began hunting on the old family place when I moved back to Austin in 1963. Lived in town at the time, drove out to the place to hunt. Killed a few deer, mostly on the smallish side.
I moved to the place in 1967, and for the first time went out one night with a spotlight. I was amazed: Fifty pairs of eyes in just one pasture! I then began a herd reduction program. The Parks & Wildlife folks would allow me one doe per fifty acres, during the season. That meant that on 230 acres I could only take four does. Nowhere near enough to get the habitat restored and the body size back up to "real deer" conditions.
So I ignored the law. Over a three-year period, I killed some thirty or so does and scraggle-horn bucks and mature spikes. By the fourth year, body weight overall was up some 20% and there were decent racks on the bucks.
A few years later, Parks & Wildlife spent tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars in an experiment to compare antler and body sizes of deer in uncontrolled vs. controlled populations. They learned what I'd already known since I was a kid: You don't overstock the range. Doesn't matter if it's cows or deer, whether it's by man's action or nature's geometric growth progression.
I'll take reality over politics, anytime.
And a female feral feline's geometric progression is heaps, gobs and bunches of bird-killlers per year.
January 28, 2008, 01:34 PM
uncontrolled vs. controlled populations.
You just nailed the crux of this debate.
A cattleman can tell if a piece of land is stressed. And he can move cattle around to benefit the assets he has. No one, including me, is against this type of management.
However, in the upper part of my state we have flannel clad chest-thumpers that believe poaching is a rite of passage. Get yourself a million candle-power lamp, your pa's lever-action, your no-brother-good-inlaw's Jimmee, the one with the good front tire, and let's go make some noise.
Like I said, they even shoot the DNR's dummy deer.
If cats are a problem, and I'm not sure if they are or are not, then devise a plan constructed by responsible conservation management people who still have most of their toes.
We have a bubba saying in my area, "If it's brown it's down, if it flies it dies."
Are you sure you want this idiot out in the same woods in which you hike?
January 28, 2008, 04:18 PM
Well, it's the Wisconsin wildlife biologists who claim a feral cat kills around 100 songbirds a year, and that the population estimate is a million feral cats. Sounds like a problem, to me.
Got bubbas everywhere, which has nothing to do with populations or problems with feral cats or deer...
However, bubbas are handy little critters. You use them as stalking dogs, watching which way they go and then figuring out where will the deer go that they spook. Got me some decent bucks, that way. :D
January 28, 2008, 05:59 PM
My point is that since bubbas shoot at anything--and want to shoot at anything--the safe bet would be to call a guy who has married outside of his family tree. If we let the townies hunt, there wouldn't be any game in Wisconsin. Perhaps a few Flatlanders who weren't worth chasing.
Now, I know I have used humor and irony in bringing an opposing viewpoint to this debate. But there is a very serious side to this idea of rampant hunting.
As you know, you can shoot on public land here in Wisconsin. Extreme bubbas nail up tree-stands and "claim" areas. Many serious hunters don't like public land for fear of being shot. To the multi-toed cheesehead gun fanatic, "blaze orange" is simply another food group.
To this group, "Da Turdy Point Buck" is simply another day at deer camp.
And seriously, this type of self-righteous slob hunter is going to ruin it for everyone.
January 28, 2008, 10:29 PM
Wisconsin boarders Illinois!!! Exactly what Ive always feared....
Just my sense of humor..........
January 28, 2008, 10:43 PM
If I had my way I'd recommend a seven day waiting period on the purchase of double-wides, the mandatory use of condoms by any purchaser therein with eleven toes
you have to pass a written test to drive a car,
a practical test to carry a handgun
but no restrictions on having kids! :)
about the cats;
granted they kill alot of songbirds etc.
but they also kill alot of rodents.
I like to keep a few around the barn but will thin out the herd if needed.
January 29, 2008, 11:37 AM
The problem is that this thread is about feral cats, not about rampant hunting and bubbas. Some thread drift doesn't hurt, but let's don't go to hijacking the thread...
January 29, 2008, 12:08 PM
The problem is that this thread is about feral cats
If the OP had restricted the debate on how to style their hair I would agree with you. However, the thread uses the word "hunting."
And I have an opinion on that.
Frankly (working in a sporting goods store) we need a lot more hunter safety courses, more knowledgeable hunters--who know which direction you mount a scope--and lots more people who know what ammunition their rifles use after they've owned them for several decades.
As I've stated in another thread, many hunters ask for a box of '7mm's.' To that you have to ask if they want 7mm Mags, 7mm Express (280), 7mm08, 7mm Mauser...
Many times they get snippy and say, "Don't be a wise guy--just get me some sevens..."
The last thing that Wisconsin needs is another thing to shoot at.
You want to control cats, get a professional with plan devoid of unfunded mandates. I live here, and I don't want another in a long list of "gimmees" which jack up state, local and property taxes.
But for heaven's sake, don't ask a bubba! These inbreds would be plinking cans on Schenck's Corners if you let them, claiming they were good environmentalists and recycling aluminum...
January 29, 2008, 06:55 PM
January 29, 2008, 09:24 PM
Lordy! Amazing how all manner of trivia shows up on the Inet. I don't really see how killing feral cats is all that big a deal.
Back in the '70s, I bought a Ruger heavy-barrel .220 Swift. Put a Canjar single-set trigger in it, and stuck a Redfield 3x9 on top. Generally, 3/8 MOA five-shot groups with the Sierra 52-grain HPBT.
Behind the corral was a sorta swale valley about six hundred yards across. It was common for various stray cats to meander down the middle in the late afternoon. I'd go sit against a properly-leaning oak tree a couple of times a week, read a paperback and wait. And sure enough...
3,800 or 3,900 ft/sec makes for a short interval in the old boom/whop sound. :) But soul-satisfying after a day in an office job. :D
January 29, 2008, 10:16 PM
The issue of when a cat is a feral cat is a tough question, as many of these critters lead dual lives.
I always ask a property owner about pets as I do not want to be responsible for killing someones pet and I think most responsible shooters feel the same way.
I have been told by a farmer of problems with not so wild- wild dogs getting in amongst his sheep and once caught one in the act. His owner was devastated when he heard his dog had been shot dead as I did the right thing and rang the owner after I found a collar on a dog that I shot one night chasing sheep, but when he threatened to sue he soon shut up when the property owner instructed me to write to him with a claim related to dead sheep.
If you live in a country area it is your responsibility to keep your pets under control.
January 29, 2008, 10:29 PM
I'd like to ask a question of you. We're both from Texas, certainly both from south of the Mason Dixon, it's fair to assume we would both have an accent that might be obvious to others, I'm guessing we both have aversions to big cities, neither one would hesitate to shoot a feral cat or anything else if it was a viable and safe target, either one of us might be caught drinking sweet tea (iced tea, or maybe a beer in a pinch), and I don't know about you- but If I was in a pinch, I wouldn't be above living in a doublewide if it meant keeping the family out of the elements... right? Are those the things that would cause The Tourist to classify us as Bubbas? It really wouldn't bother me to see him tone down his arrogance and generalizations, how about you?
January 29, 2008, 10:39 PM
If you live in a country area
You mention a valid point, these matters take place in the country. In essence, we are to believe that this is a rural matter that urban people don't quite understand. I guess it all depends whose ox is being gored.
There were many rites of passage I lived through that rural folks would have pointed out were against the law. Well, so is violating.
Another item I might also point out, it's always funny blowing the head off some animal--until it's yours. Lawyer Daggit has just mentioned a domestic dog.
We all know what probably happened. Some beloved dog got out one night and went for a run. It started to chase cattle or sheep or horses and the farmer or cattleman heard the commotion and grabbed a rifle. In responding, he "saw" a wolf or a wild dog chasing live stock--got mad--and blew the dog's head off.
Many of you told stories of encountering wild or roaming animals and pets and smirked about what caliber they used during this manly art.
Granted, a valuable dog should have been watched. To boot, a wandering dog will do something innocent, like give chase. And it's all one big hoot until the hollowpoint goes splat.
Like I say, it all depends on one's point of view.
Well, I'm a reloader. I have light .401 caliber hollowpoint bullets, buckets of 10mm Auto brass and pounds and pounds of modern powder that should get any projectile over 1,500 FPS.
Without any research at all I could go down into the gunroom and load a round that will take any canine's head right off at the shoulders.
I'll heat up a big ol' bowl of buttered popcorn and start whacking any mutt that even touches the boundaries of my land, all death, all of the time.
*smack* ooh woo, look at him roll...!
Hey, it's just one of those "city ideas" you guys don't understand.
January 29, 2008, 10:50 PM
This is a very important topic that a lot of people here have weighed in on. I have learned a few things on this thread, and hopefully maybe even shared something worthwhile on this issue.
What I don't care for is some poster's egotistical attempt get on a soapbox and preach about how "Bubbas" are ruining our nation. First, its off topic and it's annoying to have a worthwhile thread hijacked. But even worse is this elitist attitude that everyone who wears flannel isn't worth the bullet it takes to put them down with, that 'townies' and ''bubbas'' (whatever those are) are ruining YOUR sport, and that the whole world wants to go to Wisconsin and ruin your woods. Yes, I would love to hunt whitetails in Buffalo County, but every state has out of staters who come in to hunt. If you ever lived out West, you might realize that you don't actually have that many out of staters compared to what we have to deal with, and unfortunately you live in an average hunting state. This was a great thread, but sometimes arrogant people get online to try to distinguish themselves from the masses. The truth is, when I hear someone railing against trailer trash, inbreds, and bubbas, the first thing that I think of is, as Shakespeare said, "Me thinks he doth protest to much".
January 29, 2008, 11:01 PM
Wait Tourist-you really believe that ""a wandering dog will do something innocent, like give chase. And it's all one big hoot until the hollowpoint goes splat.""? Sorry buddy, I grew up bordered on 3 sides by sheep farms, and I can tell you that a dog chasing livestock is not innocent. Your beloved fido's can and do kill more sheep than coyotes, and that is why it is legal to shoot a dog chasing livestock. And when you imagine ""the farmer or cattleman heard the commotion and... "saw" a wolf or a wild dog chasing live stock--got mad--and blew the dog's head off"" what someone who wasn't a "townie" would know is that a farmer saw someone's animal destroying his livelihood and protected his property.
January 29, 2008, 11:07 PM
go to Wisconsin and ruin your woods.
You finally got it. I as mentioned, I used "irony."
For years I have been told that us "city boys" don't understand the the problems of hunting, violating, farm parity and now feral cats. We are led to believe that if we would just go away and let the "real sportsmen" run the show we'd all be better off. Like the woods belonged to them.
Well, I'm a Wisconsin resident, born and raised. And the deer, hunting rights, use of public land and the ballot box belong to me as well as any bubba watching Oprah.
Get it? Irony.
Whether you like it or not, when people start takin' granddad's shootin' iron down offin' the mantel and whackin' up some cats, people are going to start voting. Wisconsin is one of only two states which never got CCW licensing. We have a liberal governor. Our state capital is smack dab in the middle of a liberal university.
Our voters have already vetoed dove hunting and crow hunting.
It's real easy to sit in another state decide how my citizens are to conduct their lives. You have CCW rights. No matter what happens to feral cats here, your individual hunting statutes are pretty much unchanged.
January 29, 2008, 11:24 PM
Yes, I understand irony, it's one of the literary terms I teach my 9th grade English classes every year. And while I appreciate your attempt to use irony, you should probably spend a little more time studying literary terms, and logic, before you try to use either one yourself. The adults on this site are trying to have a conversation about the role of non-native animals, specifically feral cats, on an ecosystem. I'm not really interested in what you do up in Wisconsin, and I certainly have no interest in "deciding how my citizens are to conduct their lives". The thread is "feral cat hunting'', and it is an issue in all of our states. The world is bigger than your backyard pal.
January 29, 2008, 11:55 PM
The world is bigger than your backyard pal.
Fair enough. You may do as you like in your home state. However, I've heard all of the same arguments over the hunting of other species and it all tends to sound like white noise after a while.
In northern Wisconsin they actually teach young boys the proper ways to violate deer because "a man has to feed his family." And yet you could go down to The Green Giant pea vinery and watch the harvest and see virtually no unemployeed Wisconsin boys.
There is an ugly culture here that just likes to yank a trigger.
A forum, and a ballot box, is the place for a debate. We have enough to shoot at here in Wisconsin. We need to make a few more friends in government to guaranty the rights and privileges of sportsmen.
These "environmentalists" are the same boys who squawked about our "earn a buck" program when the state tried to control CWD and herd numbers. Instead of being part of the solution, these "hunters" slaughtered any doe within sight, kicked it off their tailgate and demanded, "Gimmee my tag."
I've never seen such a hated program as earn-a-buck.
So now the "concerned sportsmen" are fearful of a cat population. Excuse me while I roll my eyes.
We also have a problem here with shoreline erosion. Yet, you seldom see a guy in a blaze orange coat building (actually working) a breakwater wall. Ever monitor the Indian spearing fiasco of a few years back and hear fishermen complain about harvesting "their fish."
A guy who won't work always has a day planned for violating. And it's always the same guys. Now, for the last four months I've been working around real hunters preparing for deer season--and this has taken place in a sporting goods store selling all of its inventory.
Not one, not a single one, of these real hunters has even mentioned cats.
Time and time again these are the same guys who shoot at the DNR's cement deer.
January 30, 2008, 01:46 AM
So now the "concerned sportsmen" are fearful of a cat population. Excuse me while I roll my eyes.The fact that you are either uninformed about or choose to trivialize the problems posed by feral cats does not change the situation.
The fact that this is an emotional issue for the uninformed does not change the situation.
The fact that some unethical people shoot feral cats does not change the problems caused by feral cats, particularly the damage they do to the environment.
The fact that you have a problem with poachers (as does any true hunter) doesn't give you the right to imply that EVERYONE who shoots problem animals is part of an "ugly culture...that just likes to yank a trigger" or that EVERYONE who shoots problem animals is motivated by "all death, all of the time. *smack* ooh woo, look at him roll...!"
The fact that unethical people harm the environment, violate game laws and hurt the cause of hunters does NOT mean that problem animals (including feral cats) are any less of a concern to informed people.We need to make a few more friends in government to guaranty the rights and privileges of sportsmen.Wrong. We need to INFORM the people. The people in government are not going to be our "friends" unless there are enough informed voters to make them pay attention.
Frankly, equating poachers with people who take a responsible attitude toward feral animals is exactly the OPPOSITE of what needs to happen.
January 30, 2008, 02:06 AM
The fact that you are either uninformed about or choose to trivialize the problems posed by feral cats does not change the situation.
John, I'm sure you are sincere. It sounds to me like you want to do the right thing. However, it's strange how the "right thing" always seems to boil down to the "same old thing" in this area. Follow me on this.
For example, it always seems that there is an evironmental problem here that can easily be resolved by killing. This week it's cats. Last year it was doves. The year before that it was crows.
However when culling was really needed, these same "hunters" screamed bloody murder. They were asked to cull does. It was a very real problem.
Well, yikes, what kind of a trophy can you hang on the wall with that program? It was universally hated.
It's always the same game. Now I hear that wolves have had enough of a chance to propagate here in Wisconsin. They want to shoot those, too.
If there ever was an animal that was too prevalant in Wisconsin it is dairy cows. We have so many and we produce so much milk the farmers claim they cannot get parity. So several years ago they offered a buy out program. A farmer had to sell his herd and agree to stay out of the dairy business for five years.
That program was accused of "hurting small farmers." Had they turned the cows loose to be shot it would have been the greatest program we ever created.
Same with fish. If an Indian speared them it wrecked the ecology. Why was it bad for the ecology? Because the fish population could not be sustained for fishing. Huh?
So I repeat the observation. If a guy can shoot something, it's a good program. If it eliminates shooting, changes shooting requirements, provides other alternatives or simply restricts the number of antlers available, it's a bad program.
During this debate, we mentioned neutering as a viable program. Where was bubba years ago when folks like Bob Barker warned us about this? Did you see guys in blaze orange rallying around that program? Of course not, no guns. No thrill killing.
If you had a magic wand that could solve the Wisconsin feral cat issue, and it could be done without firing a shot, you would be cruxified as a communist, tree-hugging hippie.
However, if guys could plink cats, whether it did anything of value or not, it would be welcomed as the greatest program Wisconsin ever christened.
Trust me, these same guys would kill every hodag in Rhinelander if they could get a license and a decent bag count.
January 30, 2008, 02:22 AM
For example, it always seems that there is an evironmental problem here that can easily be resolved by killing.The fact that there have been some dubious "solutions" to environmental problems proposed in your area in the past that involved killing does not change the facts about feral cats and the best way to deal with them.
The fact that some unethical people support the hunting of feral cats for the wrong reasons does not change the facts about feral cats and the best way to deal with them nor does it mean that all people who realize how to best deal with feral cats are unethical.
I have no doubt that you are sincere, but you're painting with a very broad brush and sweeping strokes. If you had a magic wand that could solve the Wisconsin feral cat issue, and it could be done without firing a shot, you would be cruxified as a communist, tree-hugging hippie.You're working WAY too hard to keep this as emotional as possible. That is not helping anything. It's already an emotional issue--the solution is to INFORM so that people can be objective rather than emotional. Bandying about speculations and hyperbole is just adding to the problem.
January 30, 2008, 02:50 AM
Then we politely agree to disagree.
The Madison area is always smoldering with some social outrage that requires the immediate use of socialist controls or more bullets. I'm weary of all of it.
True, responsible change will come--like it always does. Some reasonable, thinking people will formulate a logical plan, and it will work. Then the tide will flow out, and another crisis will befall us, requiring even more protest marches and bullets.
If you were to drive from my community, onto Hwy 151 as it becomes East Washington Avenue, turn down into either the Johnson Street area or go 'round the square, you'd cross both our state government area and a big part of campus. Before you'd empty out onto University Avenue on your way to Middleton, you find a protest march about something.
Each day. Every day. Into the night. And I've lived here since 1968.
There is a never ending supply of bullets, crises, protestors, wars, repairs to East Wash Avenue, hostile socialists, swaggering townies, crows, tuition increases, ice, a second protest march, and now cats.
John, I'm not a bad guy for a wizzened old distrustful biker, but take my advice. Keep an eye on our local paper, The Wisconsin State Journal. Within a couple of weeks, the sky will be falling once again in Mad Town.
A townie will be demanding to shoot an animal most people have never heard of, and a communist hippie will be arrested in a protest march trying to stop it.
Trust me. Good night, John.
January 30, 2008, 03:46 AM
In respect to the 'valid point' I raised as commented upon by the Tourist. The 'wild' dog was shot by me- I was not an angry farmer, but rather an experienced hunter who happened upon an attack by a pack of dogs that I assumed to be wild 'dingo' / cross bred dogs- rarely do you see a pure yellow dingo these days.
In poor light at 100 metres when targeting dogs savaging sheep you don't get to check their collars to see if they are wearing tags. I love dogs, and I understand the sensitivity of the owner, but if I had not taken the shot I did a lot more sheep would have died (on that and ensuing nights).
January 30, 2008, 05:08 AM
Tourist, There will always be a few rotten apples... I am a poacher! I have no concern for game laws when I seek FOOD! However i am not trying to load an 18 wheeler with trophy racks and capes destined for some hidden taxidermy studio in mexico.
I buy Hunting and fishing Licenses for the times I desire to "hunt" or "fish" but if I need meat I will go "pop a doe" and I shall eat...
You mentioned dogs... I also think you averted to the notion you live in town. I have several bulldogs bred from working stock to catch the wild hogs my bay dogs get bayed up... In Florida you would RIGHTFULLY owe me the money to replace them if you shoot them and I get to set the value! I consider each dog to be worth $5,000+ just a few of them and you will need to move into a trailer so I can rent out my new house... I do not NORMALLY have them loose but on occasion they have escaped. I immediately went searching... I pity the poor soul holding a gun near the bleeding body of one of my huntin' dogs in their yard and if it were a pet and my wife knows of this CRIME she will cut wide and deep and lose no sleep.
I think I nearly fall into the LOOSELY used term of a "bubba" but my collection of flannels is small due to high prices at walmart!
I have been to Madison to do 2 electrical jobs... ever eat at the "Denny's" by the interstate? I wired the remodel... That town is one of the worst I seen! Talk about liberal majority...
Anywho. They don't sell beer after midnight I think to "Protect" the college student? If'n he was a smart student he woulda done bought plenty. I worked my tail off from 4am till 1am and I wanted a damn micro brew beer at the motel! BUT NOOOOO.... we might have a student drunk if we let you buy beer 'til 2 am!
And finally you mention Madison wanting either social remedy or bullet remedy? The hunters know to keep quiet! Just like the "cat whackers" we know it would behoove our endeavor to not make much public mention of how we fix things. Bob Barker did not talk to many hunters... they was at work or asleep! House wives and their kids want house cats... NOT HUNTERS! Just like "TIME OUT" spaying won't work... Spayed cats kill just like fertile ones do! The notion that you can trap and spay a wild population is hogwash! So you know we gots us problem? Why spend a hundred dollars per cat to trap, spay and re-release them? a .22 bullet is under 5 cents!
January 30, 2008, 08:05 AM
Friend of mine built something like this for feral cats.
Seriously glad I live in a place where this isn’t even an issue. Cats on your property and in way or another are a nuisance, you shoot it. If it belonged to a neighbor and they complain they get a fine for allowing their pets to run free. Also we just used to call them strays when I was a kid.
January 30, 2008, 09:45 AM
10-96, when I first moved to Terlingua in 1983, I lived in a single-wide. Why? "It was there." Already in place on the acreage I bought. :) I remarried in 1989 and figured that decent woman oughta have a decent home--so I built one. Call it a 1,400 sq-ft hunting lodge with wall-to-wall carpet and air conditioning. Only two minor plumbing repairs in fifteen years, so I did pretty good work. By the time I was done, though, I had my left thumb pretty much beaten into submission. :D
I drawl and twang, mostly on purpose. I can write and speak in Professional Engineeringese, or use a lot of vernacular. Still recall a little French and know some border Tex-Mex.
I've lived in or travelled extensively in some twenty countries, with a couple of round trips across the Date Line. A couple of years in Paris, back before DeGaulle screwed it up.
Tourist, a problem I have is that you use other folks' emotional "arguments" as some sort of refutation of what's been said of the biological facts we've brought forth. For instance, none of us are seeing dove populations as some sort of problem, or as animals needing protection. The Wisconsin arguments are irrelevant to reality. What's been proven as fact for decades is that you cannot increase the populations of dove and quail by not hunting. You cannot "stockpile" those species.
And bubbas will always exist; they've just been selecting among themselves in Florida, yesterday. You can vote for the bubba of your choice, come November. They'll always be with us, whether in your store or inside the Beltway.
I make no blanket categorization of city people as ignorant of wildlife realities--but a great many of them do indeed fit into that category. These ignoranti, unfortunately, tend to be the most vocal in promoting emotion over fact. Attend a city council meeting or a legislative committee hearing to observe first hand how bad it can be. (On second thought, maybe, don't; it's bad for the psyche. The "blood in the streets" of CHL discussions readily comes to mind.)
At any rate, IMO, using extreme examples in one's effort to justify some position is fallacious reasoning...
January 30, 2008, 10:01 AM
I see 'em just like coyotes - they are not indigenous species to this area (WNC) are a predatory species. I used to have a flock of bobwhite quail around my place - guess what got 'em. guess what got what got 'em?
this one BIG tom was really wary - he would scram if he heard a footstep in the house but he finally succumbed to ripe sardine bait and a 'stinger'. big fella he was, maybe 20 lbs.:)
January 30, 2008, 10:37 AM
EHCRAIN10, I don't know what you would use on feral cats but this worked for me on Maine wild cats:).
January 30, 2008, 02:08 PM
I won't get into Bubbas and Townies since this thread is about Feral cats.I own a couple of hundred acres in the upper Mississippi river valley.Over the past decade or so urbain sprawl has brought more "Townies"out into the country and as a personal observation I have seen a definite decrease in the populations of Pheasants and quail not from loss of habitat but from the predation of Cats Feral and domestic.I have 2 golden retrievers that are kenneled unless they are with me doing field work or hunting.Any cat that I see wether pet or feral that is in the woods or fields I kill not for the pleasure of killing somethong but because of 1 fact Cats hunt and kill almost anything they come across and I will continue to do so law or no law ELMO:mad:
January 30, 2008, 02:21 PM
Elmo, You are 100% right in your quest. But they are ALL FERAL if not in the owner's yard. They are "feral domestic feline" by definition if not currently under supervision of a willing owner!
This is also addressed to anyone that thinks it is hard to tell the difference in a feral ie:wild cat and a "domestic" cat. If it is loose it is feral!
January 30, 2008, 07:06 PM
"If it is loose it is feral!
I disagree. Maybe my situation is somehow radically different than that of you and other posters in this thread, but I grew up in a sub division of about forty homes. This division was about 3 miles outside of Sheridan, WY, a town of 13,000 or so folks. The smallest plot in the division was about three acres, most plots averaged 5-6. Ours was the largest in the division with nearly ten acres, with deep ravines on both sides of our house than led into one ravine. Various hawks, herds of mule deer, squadrons of grouse and pheasants, and even a few reclusive red foxes spent time or lived on our property.
We had three cats, all now passed on. Two males with all claws, and one female declawed in the front (whom was the most successful hunter of the three). All were spayed/neutered, all were kept up on their yearly shots, and all were collared and tagged with the rabies vaccination, the contact information of our vet, our contact information and the cat's name.
All three were happy indoor/outdoor cats. When they wanted in, we let them in. When they wanted out, we let them out. When they wanted us to open the door so they could sit at the threshold and ponder their indoor/outdoor duality, we laughed at our silly zen kitties. They usually spent the night indoors (but not always), and they always spent weekdays outside while we were at school or work.
Our cats brought home loads of mice. They occasionally scored big, bringing back water snakes, wild rabbits, and the occasional robin or meadowlark. These were rarities; between three cats we would only see about a dozen non-rodent trophies on the doorstep each year. Granted, there were probably kills that we never saw, but I do not believe for a second that they approached the level of "100 songbirds each year per feline" devastation previously mentioned in this thread. Our cats were primarily rodent extermination experts.
They never brought back any hawks, deer, grouse, pheasants, turkeys or red foxes. Much to my chagrin, because how cool would THAT have been? :eek:
More importantly, our cats were never shot, killed, captured, tortured or otherwise culled by any of our neighbors. Why? Because almost all of the people in the sub division also had dogs and cats, and they all let them spend time both indoors and out. Dogs were almost universally held indoors or kenneled by everyone, but there were a few exceptions. Cats were almost universally allowed to roam outside as they pleased, with a few exceptions. Our division was a close-knit community, and we all understood that we all had animals running around. We knew each others pets (usually by name, if not who they actually belonged to). Nobody raised a fuss, nobody shot somebody else's animals, and nobody sued over anything.
My best friend was attacked and recieved ER medical attention when he brought a mis-delivered piece of mail to his next door neighboor, who kept a dog fenced inside the property. My friend's family did not sue, and they did not request that the dog be put down.
Our female cat was attacked and ravaged by a loose dog from one of our immediate neighbors. Several vital organs were pierced or damaged, and her liver was torn into seven separate pieces. She spent two weeks with the vet who removed the smallets pieces of liver and allowed the two largest pieces to rejoin and heal. She outlived both of our males. It cost my parents a good sum of money when the bill came. We did not sue him, we did not ask for recompense, and we did not shoot his dog the next time it wandered onto our property. We understood that we allowed our cats to roam, and we understood that he allowed his dog to roam, and we understood that this was a rare, isolated bad situation that occurred one time, and both our cat and his dog roamed free for another seven years without altercation until his dog died. Our female finally died of old age about four years ago.
"If it is loose it is feral"? No sir, not in our neighborhood. If it was loose (dog or cat) then it probably belonged to someone, and if you had a problem with it you didn't shoot it, you sat down with your neighbor face-to-face and came to an agreement of some sort.
At least, that's how we did it in Wyoming, in my neighborhood. Call me crazy.
January 30, 2008, 07:46 PM
Our cats brought home loads of mice. They occasionally scored big, bringing back water snakes, wild rabbits, and the occasional robin or meadowlark. These were rarities; between three cats we would only see about a dozen non-rodent trophies on the doorstep each year.
Now multiply that times a million or so domestic cats who are allowed outside. That's a pretty big impact on native wildlife.
At least, that's how we did it in Wyoming, in my neighborhood. Call me crazy.
No, I don't think you're crazy. We own three cats, all were rescued as kittens from feral litters, and we keep them all inside. Some people think we're crazy.
I can understand killing cats to protect native species, but I can't understand taking pleasure in it. That's just me.
January 30, 2008, 07:49 PM
I suspect that the subdivision mentioned had very few-rabbits, grouse(if they are in WY) and any other ground nesting animal.
I have a neighbor with 2 cats, a cat door and NO litter box. They come and go at will. I have few mice now-no rabbits and fresh tracks on the sidewalk(in the snow) 26+ mornings a month. Have had to put gravel in the flower garden (only dry dirt for blocks around) as the stench is too much.
Are these Feral cats??
January 30, 2008, 07:52 PM
Got bubbas everywhere, which has nothing to do with populations or problems with feral cats or deer...
However, bubbas are handy little critters. You use them as stalking dogs, watching which way they go and then figuring out where will the deer go that they spook. Got me some decent bucks, that way.
The problem is that this thread is about feral cats, not about rampant hunting and bubbas. Some thread drift doesn't hurt, but let's don't go to hijacking the thread...
Hey Art, You replied to me (You talkin' to me? dont see anyone else...) and advised me not to hijack the thread with talk about Bubbas.
Are the above quotes yours or am i having another flashback? :)
Anyway, this thread is now being driven by emotion, probably time to end it.
Geez, you'd think we were talking about shooting a dog or something.......
January 30, 2008, 08:32 PM
Mainah: A million or so cats living outside where? In the entire USA? So were looking at perhaps 4-10 million animals killed per year by Felis Domesticus, in the third largest country (in landmass) in the world? That may be significant, but that still is not anywhere near the "100 songbirds per year per cat" quotient (which also discounts all the other animals cats hunt and kill).
But you also say that you cannot imagine how people can take pleasure in culling cats, either feral or domesticated, and I agree. Unfortunately it seems that there are many people who love to torture, maim and kill cats, feral or domestic, out of glee--and then hide behind the false curtain of "controlling the feral cat population which is killing all of these native songbirds" tripe. It would appear (to me) that at least a few of these people are posting with us here at TFL. Not only does this make me angry on a personal, cat-owning level, but it gives all hunters and gun owners a bad name in the eyes of the gun-wary populace, and this only further hampers our efforts as responsible gun owners, especially when perpetrated by gun owners. It smacks of hypocrisy in the eyes of those we wish to accept and understand us.
Langenc: Our sub division was loaded with feral rabbits, and we had a substantial population of both Ruff grouse as well as Ringneck pheasants. We also saw the occasional confused Blue grouse, even though we tended to find them in areas with heavier wooded areas.
Tplumeri: This thread has been supported by emotional appeals as well as factual examples on both sides of the debate. That is no reason to lock the thread. Internet threads are often supported by emotional appeals, as are everyday face-to-face human discussions. If you haven't noticed, the presidential primaries are almost entirely emotionally-driven (and you can bet the full presidential election will be as well), as they have been for as long as I can remember. That doesn't mean that we should stop having presidential elections because of the emotional factor, and that certainly doesn't mean we should stop having internet discussions of real-world problems (feral cats, in this case) simply because emotional elements often arise.
And yes, to many cat-owners, shooting a cat is the same as shooting a dog is to a dog-owner. I love cats and dogs equally, and have had both animals for my entire life. I own cats now instead of dogs because my living/housing/working/personal situation disallows a canine friend. I am not at home enough and cannot devote the time and attention required to raise a dog. It would be unfair to the animal.
And by the way, that suggests that you think that cats are somehow beneath or not deserving of the same level of love, respect and ownership as dogs, that it is okay to shoot cats willy-nilly while it is unthinkable to shoot a man's dog, and that is certainly an emotionally-driven idea if you'd stop to think all the way through it. So please stop trying to get the admins to close the thread. There is plenty of thought- and conversation-stimulating material here, and if it can sway one person's opinions one way or the other then it is of value.
January 30, 2008, 08:45 PM
a well fed cat will hunt for the pleasure of kiling. a well fed dog will not hunt. nothing against cat owners that keep then de-clawed and nuetered and bells on the collar. I like to scratch their backs like many people. my sister (one of 5) lives in the country and her cat (de-clawed) catches mice and lays them on the door mat. fairly good-size Tom he is. and he has no cojones also.
January 30, 2008, 08:47 PM
It would appear (to me) that at least a few of these people are posting with us here at TFL.
Thats a good way to get noticed here, newbie.
If you haven't noticed, the presidential primaries are almost entirely emotionally-driven (and you can bet the full presidential election will be as well), as they have been for as long as I can remember.
REALLY? Now I'm no expert, but I think MOST people vote for a presidential candidate based on facts and past performance now days.
Gone are the days when a "pretty boy" was elected over an "unattractive" man. (i'm referring to the jfk election)
as they have been for as long as I can remember
Just how long is that?
January 30, 2008, 09:10 PM
That is your response? It speaks for itself. Good lord, I'll let that rest right there.
"Now I'm no expert, but I think MOST people vote for a presidential candidate based on facts and past performance now days."
And I would argue that most people are fooled into believing that they are voting on a factual basis (for reasons I don't care to explain here because it is outside the scope of the topic at hand), while they are actually voting based on the manipulative, subtle (and not subtle), calculated and constructed strategies of the mud-slinging candidates (in virtually all parties) and their strategists. But, again, that is not within the range of this discussion. The only reason I brought it up is because of your thinly-veiled plea to the admins to close this thread because of "emotional" posts, and how absurd that is to use as a reason for justifying the closing of a conversation-provoking topic. If you'd truly like to discus politics, then please reply to me in a private message.
"Just how long is that?"
For one, that doesn't matter. For another, it's not your business. For a third, if you'd like to continue a discussion of politics, then we can continue in private.
More importantly, it seems your entire response focused only on the political example I briefly brought up, while ignoring everything else I posted. Perhaps you'd like to respond to me with something on topic?
January 30, 2008, 09:27 PM
And I would argue that most people are fooled into believing that they are voting on a factual basis (for reasons I don't care to explain here because it is outside the scope of the topic at hand), while they are actually voting based on the manipulative, subtle (and not subtle), calculated and constructed strategies of the mud-slinging candidates (in virtually all parties) and their strategists.
You're kidding, right? You propose that the rest of us are too stupid to know fact from fiction? That we are easily "fooled' by "manipulative".........."mud-slinging" candidates and their "strategists"?!
Perhaps you'd like to respond to me with something on topic
I did. You brought politics into the discussion.
I was talking about emotions about killing.
January 30, 2008, 10:28 PM
Wayward Son, thanks for bringing a thoughtful and focused response to this topic. While most of the posters on this thread take the other side of the argument, you've provided a good example of how to disagree and make your point. I just wish The Tourist would come up with on topic responses like you.
I grew up in farm country, and we had 5-15 barn cats at any given time. Our neighbors had dogs and cats and we knew whose they were. Nobody ever shot a neighbors dog or cat that I know of, but I guarantee that if our lovable golden retriever would have been seen chasing a neighbors sheep he would have been shot. We were only about 15 minutes outside Salem Oregon, and we often had people dump cats in our area. Many of these were adopted by neighbors or simply moved in with somebodies barn cats, and I have no doubt that some were shot by farmers. How much of a problem was it? I have no idea. We had TONS of songbirds, hundreds of quail, but practically no rabbits.
Today, the only way I would shoot a cat is if I was either in an area away from houses-like 1/2 mile-or if I was on a farmers property who asked me to shoot any cats I saw, but that's just me. I guess the question of if all of those barn cats are feral is opening up a whole new subject.
January 30, 2008, 10:43 PM
Thank God, cause thats the right of free Americans.
Every piece of property needs management. Your lawn, retaining walls, livestock, wild game, crops, and even feral cats!
A pack of wild dogs mauled a girl to death a couple years ago. Even fido needs a good check every once in a while!
I also see nothing wrong with finding targets of chance. I love to shoot. Hunting saves me ammo. I dont break any laws, and am as courtious, and safe rifleman, as anyone else. I dont always hunt for food and dont really care what Wisconsin thinks about it. I served my country, and quit caring about public oppinion shortly after.
As far as townies, and bubba's poluting the woods. It urks me a little that others arnt as courtious as Id like them to be. All I can really do is make sure I do my part, and pack out as much of others trash as I can. I may even pick up a couple empty beer cans on my next big cat hunt!
January 30, 2008, 11:10 PM
Wayward Son: Lemme repeat; you missed it first time around (maybe it was the second time around; I don't always backtrack over these endless threads).
A study by the Wisconsin game department concluded that one feral cat kills as many as 100 songbirds a year.
An educated guesstimate from field surveys was that there could be as many as a million feral cats in the state of Wisconsin.
Even if they were off by an order of magnitude--which I doubt--it still would mean at least ten million songbirds a year. One state. Probably less of a problem in the states of the Great Plains; equal or more in the more forested states of the south (my own guesstimate as to that.)
I further noted that a trapping effort here in south Georgia at my wife's cousin's place next door to us, the humane society folks trapped some 72 cats within a month or so of effort. That's most likely from an area of no more than two or three hundred acres around us. At most.
January 30, 2008, 11:30 PM
"You're kidding, right? You propose that the rest of us are too stupid to know fact from fiction? That we are easily "fooled' by "manipulative".........."mud-slinging" candidates and their "strategists"?!"
I'm not proposing that anyone is stupid. That is your word, not mine. Please do not put words into my mouth. And please realize when I said "most people", that includes me. I am not exempt. My point was that emotional appeals are prevalent in virtually all human discussions, including politics (which was an easy example because of the present primaries in our social context, but certainly not the only example I could have chosen). And emotional appeals are not legitimate grounds for closing informative, debate-stimulating threads. Emotional appeals are everywhere, and if we were to ban all emotional appeals then we would have to ban nearly all advertising in the USA. And that includes advertising for corporate entities and potential political leaders.
Emotional appeals are not legitimate grounds for closing a thread!
"I did. You brought politics into the discussion."
Again, as an example, not as a point of contention. I could have chosen to point out emotional appeals of advertising (of cars, shampoo, or computers) or of finances (banks, credit unions, lenders, or investment angencies), or even entertainment (movies, music, television).
I chose the current political climate and the primaries because of its immediate influence on the gun issue. It was not only convenient, it was relevant in our context of responsible gun usage. I could have chosen anything, from overclocked computers to preferences in the different styles of Karate.
"I was talking about emotions about killing."
Then you should have clearly stated that. But you didn't. You vaguely mentioned something about this thread being "now driven by emotion", as if it was ever driven by anything else. Whether you (or others) wish to admit that this topic of shooting cats (feral or otherwise) with various calibers of firearms was ever based on an emotional foundation of feline hatred or not is moot. The fact is that these discussions are emotionally driven by both sides, so you should stop asking the mods to close the thread. IF you want them to close it, then do it based on something legitimate: Thread is Off-Topic, Thread is Vulgar, Thread is Somehow in Violation of Terms of Service. But after reading through the posting guidelines (of which I was recently reminded by an admin), there is nothing wrong with making posts of an emotional, on-topic nature. Because of that, it should not be closed simply because you, sir, wish it to be closed. Emotions are an everyday fact of life, and they are no reason to close a thread.
There is a term for your method of argument, and it is called RED HERRING. Others might even call it STRAW MAN, but I'm not one of them.
Cat's often (but not always) love fish. :D
Tyrajam: Thank you. If I can reach one person, then I consider my efforts successful.
January 31, 2008, 12:53 AM
A well fed dog will not hunt...
They will and they do. I used to own a Belgian Shepherd who looked like a Wolf and when walking her off the lead on occasion around a country town she has taken off after sheep who had escaped from paddocks. She has always in such situations returned to me on my command and been thereafter placed on a lead, but by the look in her eye she and I know damned well what she would have done to the throat of a sheep if she caught it.
I loved that dog dearly, but there is no doubt in my mind what she was capeable of and I used to exercise appropriate control over her.
Dogs, particularly when in a group, will hunt for fun, cats will, and Oh yes, Man will as well.
Just as we need to ensure that we hunt in an environmentally sensitive way, a pet owner needs to ensure that appropriate limits are placed upon their pet to ensure that they do not take wildlife and stock.
I will hunt wild cats because the area I hunt in adjoins a National Park that people are given to dumping unwanted cats and kittens in. Sadly that they hunt and are feral is not the cats fault, but they are good breeders and someone needs to apply some checks and balances to their burgeoning population.
January 31, 2008, 03:41 AM
For those against shooting the cats, is it you don’t feel there’s problem and they should just be left alone or there is a problem, just handle it in some other way?
January 31, 2008, 04:17 AM
To my knowledge, there isn't even a report with hard numbers, just projections.
I know of no committee studying the 'problem' or other answers.
I do know that two other programs for two other species were voted down.
It doesn't seem to be a local issue here with much traction among real hunters, conservationists or communist hippies. I'm surprised this thread has run this long for something that doesn't even exist.
January 31, 2008, 08:55 AM
To see what florida thinks of the feral cat problem just look to myfwc.com. We have many invasive species that can be taken year around. Many are subtropical "exotic" pet snakes and lizards as are some fish. We also have the ring neck dove to hunt year around. Tasty little buggers those are!
January 31, 2008, 11:45 AM
For a problem that does not exist....
Boloney. The problem of feral cats is a globally recognised problem and is a major divisive factor in relations between the animal rights activist and the conservationist here in Australia where the uncontrolled domestic cat , be it feral or otherwise has lead to the to loss of native species- particularly song birds, and other species defenceless of them.
I have tried to understand Tourist's arguments by trying to think in terms of a species that does some, though not as much damage, the dog, on the basis that I am a dog lover and not a cat lover, that has not worked for me.
I think here we are dealing with a personal value problem that cannot be resolved through discussion. Even allowing for the occasionally rude, objectionable and perhaps over enthusiastic comment I have enjoyed this thread, although I think it has now about run its course.
January 31, 2008, 12:01 PM
Boloney...I have tried to understand Tourist's arguments...I have enjoyed this thread, although I think it has now about run its course.
I agree. It's time to be civil. All points of this discussion have been touched. From this point on we're liable to make lasting enemies of each other.
It's time for the experts in game management to find out just what is a stressing the environent in Wisconsin and lay down a plan for improvement. And that's an answer that should satisfy everyone but a slob hunter who is breaking every statute already.
January 31, 2008, 01:18 PM
On my hunting club lands, feral cats, feral dogs, feral hogs, beavers, bobcats, coyotes, musk rats, raccoons and nutrias are to be shot on sight when legal. Feral cats, feral dogs, feral hogs and nutrias are classified as "invasive predatory / destructive species" and in Mississippi we are encouraged to kill them. We do have a season on beavers, bobcats, coyotes, musk rats, and raccoons.
What ever firearm is handy will work but I like 22 Mag for the small stuff, .223 or 25-06 for mid-size stuff and a .308 for hogs.
Oh, by the way, I have always owned cats and dogs.
January 31, 2008, 01:31 PM
Whew, this will be my last attempt at starting a humorous thread.
Come on guys, it was supposed to be funny.
Maybe some of you guys have a touch of the cabin flu:)
January 31, 2008, 10:54 PM
February 1, 2008, 01:55 PM
I read the first few replys, and then the last page. Wow, how a simple thread morphs.
I do what I can to thin down the population of feral and non feral cats in my neighborhood. I use a wonderful old Remington 521T .22 bolt rifle, and CCI CB longs. Head shots only. I have yet to have one do more than twitch and wiggle after shooting it. Those CB longs are really quite, just a 'pffffffft' and its over. :D
February 2, 2008, 11:44 PM
I'm noticing a problem in my neighborhood here.....there are plenty of feral cats around living in the streets, but mainly in peoples back yards and garages.....
how do they survive through the rough northeast winters????
February 9, 2008, 02:25 PM
Personally I would not hesitate to shoot a feral cat or dog. I have done both on several occasions when the dogs were chasing deer and on one occasion ME. I guess that makes me a bubba. Oh well.
February 16, 2008, 05:46 PM
FERAL CAT SEASON JUST OPENED AT MY PLACE.
Came home from work last night and turned up my lane and had a cat run across the lane right in front of me.
I just thought that I had spooked the cat when I drove in, but much to my surprise the cat ran across the lane and pounced on a full grown rooster pheasant.
I have always thought that the cats were more of a problem with the wild bird chicks. Never dreamed that they would take a full grown pheasant. :mad:
It's open season on cats at my house!!!!!!!!!!!
February 16, 2008, 06:25 PM
Hogan, HAPPY HUNTIN' BUD! Shooting over bait and electronic calls is 'tween you and sylvester and morris!;) It would urk me more to see a pheasent killed by a feline than to find my truck pissed in cuz of no windows in the doors!
February 16, 2008, 06:30 PM
I shot at a feral cat with an air rifle once but missed.... but it sure scared kitty pretty well when he jumped like 3 feet in the air....:D
February 16, 2008, 06:49 PM
Interesting how we can change our outlook.
I am (was) a big fan of feral cat "population control", didnt really give a crxp about songbirds but didnt want them around the chickens.
last year i built a new chicken coop and run. covered the entire run with wire and burried the wire 6 inches into the ground along the perimeter. i did that mainly for cyotes but it has worked well to keep cats at bay.
lately, my two barn cats have taken in a couple of feral strays. at first you couldnt get near em but after about a month of eating the barn cats food (and realizing where that food is comming from) they have gotten very tame.
the new, expanded "posse" has managed to controll the mouse/rat population in the barn and corrals and i havent found an excess of dead birds around.
so, i guess i disagree with the idea that feral cats cant be tamed and they kill (for pleasure) even if well fed.
having said that, i WILL thin the "herd" if more than 6 total.
February 16, 2008, 07:01 PM
on my home from grocer this a.m. about 11 on a fine fair day I saw 2 cats stalking around the street-side I drove on. no doubt hunting birds scratching for seed. domestic cats should be de-clawed, nuetered and wear bells on collars.
February 16, 2008, 07:03 PM
Until recently, I lived in a large city in California. For being a large urban area, it had a nice river cutting right through the middle of it. The river had miles of "nature" trails along side it. I used to go exploring with my dog all the time.
When I started going their, we spooked up a lot of cats. I don't if they were feral or not, but suffice to say my dog got excited quite often.
After a few years I noticed fewer and fewer cats and more and more coyotes on the trail area. I also noticed that we were seeing more song birds and quails. I was theorizing that the coyotes ate the cats and the birds were left to live and multiply.
I even talked to some the park rangers about this. They agreed with me, that the increased coyote population seems to have diminished the cat population and increase the number of birds.
Now I live in a rural area of Nevada. Now and then we have a new person move in around here. They let their cats out, their cats don't usually return. Again, the coyotes can be thanked.
The more I think of this, the more I respect coyotes. I almost hesitate when I shoot them.:D
February 16, 2008, 07:10 PM
tplumeri, The other risk with ferral cats is genetic defects. I have seen MANY whole litters of barn kittens born blind. Six toes, deafness and skin sensitivities abound in not so many generations of uncontrolled inbreeding... Not to say you ain't keeping an eye on it but I have seen the "barn cat" birth defect so rampant that the farmer asked me and my buddy to take a break from shooting sparrows and pigeons to completely wipe out the cats so he can get some new "stock" in. We did and he did... he went to 4 different parts of the county and got half a dozen 4 females and 2 toms for 2 locations and figured he had 6-10 years before needing to worry about that again...
February 16, 2008, 07:19 PM
good point, i have seen some mutant cats around. I weed them out real fast. the ones that showed up recently look normal and im wondering if someone didnt just drop em off an the dirt road. they were real easy to adapt.
February 16, 2008, 07:33 PM
I hate to give up the fact that I do have a soft side at times... It was one of the most somber trials of my life (to this day) to "eliminate" that many INNOCENT critters. many of them cats woulda had a hard time finding a fart in a closet! Actually them days are a SUPER STRONG part of the "makin's of HOGDOGS" I look at them summer days as part of how and why I am able to KNOW without the shadow of doubt that any bad human set on taking mine from me is an evil being not worth a second thought! If you can kill a dozen blind kittens and cats that ain't done a dang thing to nuttin' than a thug is a no brainer opponent!
February 16, 2008, 07:40 PM
now, dont get all mushy on us! :)
now Ive felt bad about whackin some critters in the past, but that didnt affect my judgement when i drew and put two rounds in a BG who was threatening my wife.
dont think your "soft side" will prevent you from doing the right thing when the situation calls for it.
February 16, 2008, 08:10 PM
Oh contrary my innernet bud... Those days hardened me! I hear a devout deer hunter say he ain't sure he could defend his family against a chump with a gun...
What did them 10-15 deer last season do to you? I don't often bring up "that summer" but in this thread it fits... No video games were not a part in my capacity to distance my emotions from a HD/SD/BG situation... it was the fact that I could hunt "innocent" game to feed the family or shoot farmer hated birds in exchange for more BB's that did it... Never once did I second guess my decision to shoot an animal but them dern cats did not provide my family with grub and as far as i could tell were harmless (minus the gene pool oil ring they left) and it was for that OBVIOUS fact only I was able to do what I did.... Did I mention that the human gene pool is in much more serious need of a deep scrubbin'?!
February 16, 2008, 08:28 PM
Did I mention that the human gene pool is in much more serious need of a deep scrubbin'
Now, that aint an acceptible way of thinking in todays society!
But i Agree 100%
You gotta pass a test to drive a car, but any moron can can have all the kids they want! AND, we reward them by giving more welfare payments for each kid!
February 16, 2008, 08:47 PM
While it is a side track.... My Scotch swillin buddy Ron White said it well when he explained you can have a tummy tuck to look like a teen, an ear implant to hear as well as ever and lasik to see as well as anyone but "THERE IS NO CURE FER STUPID!"
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