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Spade Cooley
December 28, 2007, 04:25 PM
What brand of shotguns are they using in the middle east. I read an article where it said they were using Mossbergs. I prefer the Remington 870 but maybe the Mossberg is just as reliable. It seems to me that the 870 is so simple and has fewer parts. Does anyone know what they used in Nam?

Caeser23
December 28, 2007, 05:44 PM
I had a mossberg 590 and you could bury that thing in sand and it would still cycle a round and fire. I will always have a special place in my heart for the mossberg, ironically I still haven't bought one and I've been home for almost three years.

Desert01
December 28, 2007, 09:48 PM
dup

Desert01
December 28, 2007, 09:51 PM
Here is what I posted in AR15 and is also in my signature line:

The Shotgun in the Infantry Brigade Combat Team (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=227975)

Directly to your question:
3.3 Type I shotgun. The Type I shotgun shall conform to this specification. The Type I shotgun shall include the bayonet adaptor, heat shield and a sling (see 1.2).
http://www.mossberg.com/images/products/SA/590s/50660.jpg
3.4 Type II shotgun. The Type II shotgun (see 1.2) shall conform to this specification (without bayonet adaptor or heat shield). Sights shall be the typical bead front sights.[/b]
http://www.mossberg.com/images/products/SA/500PERSUADERCRUISER/50411.jpg
3.5 Type III shotgun. The Type III shotgun (see 1.2) shall conform to this specification (without the bayonet adaptor or heat sheild). The barrel shall be fitted with rifle sights.

Type II shotguns are the standard service shotguns. The Type I, 590's are also listed in the Tech Manuals (TM's) and are most likely found in MP units. Everyone else will have variations of the Type II Mossberg 500's. I have not encountered a type III shotgun in service, nor are they list in the TM. If you are realy bored: Shotgun Mil Spec (http://desertsystms.com/shotgunMILSPEC.pdf)

You can also find the Benelli M-4/with collapsible stock (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/infantry/zimm.pdf]M-1014) in limited service with the USMC:

You will also find some Remington 870's, and Winchester 1200's. As for Vietnam there were several models, and I would need to pull out my referances for them.

Dfariswheel
December 28, 2007, 10:11 PM
Truth is, just about all American made pump shotguns are seen in the Sand Box.

Since WWII the US government has bought shotguns from just about every maker, and they are being pulled out of dusty warehouses and arms rooms and put into service.

The current "official" issue shotgun is the Mossberg.
The only reason it's in use is, Mossberg put in the lowest bid for shotguns, and so that's what's issued to the troops on a standard basis.

Most special units that can buy whatever they want buy the Remington 870P Police model shotgun.

freetrapper
December 28, 2007, 11:03 PM
The Mossbergs may be the cheapest bidder but I have read and heard really great comments about there performance over there.

rem870hunter
December 28, 2007, 11:55 PM
the radio operators in 'nam that my dad patrolled with carried winchesters. model 12 some even had the 97 or 1897. they were the only ones that carried the shotgun during their patrols. the primary duty of the radio operators was to call in for airstrikes, arty strikes or evacs. if the shtf and the shooting was close the shotgun was perfect for the job. some had the duckbill choke. which made the #4 buckshot they had pattern in a oval. so they didn't have to be dead on target to get a few pellet hits. i saw a duckbill choke on ebay back about 8 months ago. i wanted to buy it. but didn't.

blackhawk45
December 29, 2007, 12:18 AM
I own a Mossburg 590 SP. With a M8 Bayonet,Great Shotgun ! I just read on a shotgun forum, that the Mossburg 590, was the only shotgun ,to pass a rigorous test,10,000 rounds without a failure to feed,fire ,and extract.

Dfariswheel
December 29, 2007, 01:54 AM
That's true........BUT, Mossberg was the ONLY maker to submit a gun for the test.

No one else bothered because there was no way they'd be able to under-price Mossberg.
The test wasn't to determine the BEST gun, it was simply a minimum bar that had to be met.
Since most any pump gun could pass the test, the determining factor on who got the contract was who submitted the lowest bid.

As example, Remington's 870 is made of forged and milled steel. There's no way they could beat the price of Mossberg's cast aluminum gun.

So, the Mossberg claim to be "The only gun to pass the grueling government test" is a little bit of advertising hype.

Desert01
December 29, 2007, 08:58 AM
Low bidder is not the only thing that determines who gets government contracts dispite all efforts to say other wise. I can't comment on Mossberg being the only one to submit, but from what I have been told by TACOM at least one other company submitted a shotgun.

The 500/590 seiries of shotguns are very good shotguns. Were they shine verses the Remington is in maintainablity and the location of the safety. The Mossberg reguires no staking for example and can be maintained by the average marginaly trained armorer(we have all had one). The Safety's location is great for a shotgun that is meant to be carried all day as is the weight.