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gvf
December 11, 2007, 02:30 AM
Tonight while walking and ccwing a snub in pocket-holster in front parka-jacket pocket, I took a real nasty fall on the sidewalk, I had the time before hitting to try to role away from gun side and - no matter what - get the right arm out to break the fall. This was not successful, and I landed on top of the gun and landed hard. No problem as it was in a pocket holster, but it made me quickly toss an occasional thought I was entertaining of carrying a Glock "bare" (unholstered) in the same way.

Anyway, for those folks who carry without a holster, better allow for the unexpected and be comfortable with that or find a pocket holster. My view anyway....'specially with winter footing.

teeroux
December 11, 2007, 02:33 AM
yeah you should always have a holster even for a pocket gun

some places its required

OSUCowboy
December 11, 2007, 03:26 AM
I always carry my guns in a holster not so much so that the gun won't go off, but to protect the gun itself. Pocket lint, dirt, and sweat aren't nice to your guns. Of course, I also take the extra precaution and all of my holsters completely cover my trigger guard. I carry a Glock, and although I never worry about accidental discharges because the 5.5 lb trigger must be pulled from the center to get through the trigger safety, I don't like an uncovered trigger guard when I go to draw.

Alex45ACP
December 11, 2007, 06:51 PM
Anyone who's stupid enough to carry an unholstered GLOCK in their pocket with a chambered round... well, they really shouldn't be reproducing anyway.

orionengnr
December 11, 2007, 06:57 PM
That is one reason why I won't even contemplate small-of-back carry. Of course, having had spinal fusion surgery, I might be a bit over-protective of my back...

And yes, I always use a pocket holster for pocket carry. The DeSantis Nemesis designed for a G-26 fits a variety of pocket-friendly pistols nicely--j-frame, Kahr PM9, Kahr P45, 3" Kimber 1911, Springfield EMP...now that's a lot of versatility for $15.

Thunderhawk88
December 11, 2007, 06:58 PM
I would never pocket carry my Glock, pocket holster or not. If I have a round chambered, I want it in a good holster with the trigger covered.

geezer in NH
December 11, 2007, 07:25 PM
You fell with a snub revolver in your pocket, what does carrying a Glock with out one have anything to do with it or is it just another Glock bash?

Perldog007
December 11, 2007, 07:41 PM
He said it made him reconsider carrying a glock without a holster. So that means he thought about it and then thought better of it.

gvf
December 12, 2007, 03:56 AM
Yes, I have a Glock which does fit in pocket, and before the fall I had decided to try it. But, realized it's better to have any gun in a holster with trigger guard (like my snub pocket-holster) if it's in a pocket, gives you an added safety + protection for the gun itself from scrapes, etc during a fall.

I did have one question though about my Glock 37 (that's the .45 GAP full-size, though in this case full-size is close to the 9mm size): I bought and am awaiting a Clipdraw. This is for IWB carry, not pocket, nonetheless there would be no holster, just the clip and the gun itself IWB. I do have a Saf-t-Block, an aftermarket fitted plastic insert that friction holds behind the trigger, thus making trigger inoperable until Bloc is pushed out, or "sprung out" by large button on the shooting hand side of the Bloc - springs a yard away in less than half a second. If the spring ever failed, a push from the trigger finger would, as quick, clear it. Move the trigger finger up a hair onto trigger and you're ready to shoot. I would have that on the gun if the clip were used, since it functions as a type of trigger guard, and protects from any clothing in the waistband getting tangled in the trigger, (highly unlikely but still...)

Any thoughts about this unholstered way to carry? Or any used the Clipdraw?

chris in va
December 12, 2007, 07:42 PM
I use a clipdraw on my SP101 and the factory clip for my P11. Both have long/hard pulls.

I think the Glock + clipdraw + Saf-t-block would be fine provided it works properly. Wouldn't even consider carrying it sans the block.

vox rationis
December 12, 2007, 08:38 PM
I would never pocket carry my Glock, pocket holster or not. If I have a round chambered, I want it in a good holster with the trigger covered.

I highly second this.

Manedwolf
December 13, 2007, 10:17 AM
Carrying a Glock unholstered is asking for a Darwin Award. Your eulogy will be a feature on Fark.com after you put one through your femoral artery.

pax
December 13, 2007, 12:27 PM
From the Fox website, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306719,00.html

Texas Office Worker Accidentally Shoots Himself in Both Legs While Sitting at Desk

Wednesday, October 31, 2007

FORT WORTH, Texas —

A 47-year-old man was shot in both legs when he accidentally discharged a handgun while sitting in his cubicle at an insurance office, police said.

The man, who hasn't been publicly identified, had put his .45-caliber gun into his jacket pocket and then draped the jacket over the back of his chair, said Brett McGuire, Lake Worth police chief.

The gun discharged Tuesday morning as the man settled into his chair. He said the man must have done something to make the weapon fire.

The bullet passed through both of the man's legs and a bookcase before lodging in the wall of a cubicle.

McGuire said there was no indication the man had brought the gun to target anyone.

"He wasn't having problems with his bosses or co-workers that we know of," McGuire said.

McGuire said his department has no record of the man being licensed to carry a concealed weapon. He said detectives would wait until the man, who was taken to a hospital, had recovered before deciding whether to pursue charges.

From a thread here on TFL awhile back (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204507):

I know a person who was somewhat paranoid and 'carried' a Glock (not sure what model it was). He apparently carried it much of the time except at work where it was prohibited by company policy. Several years go he had a serious accident with it one evening at a movie theatre (a Disney movie - Finding Nemo or something). The gun was in his jacket and it discharged inside a theatre full of families and kids. He took most of it himself in the abdomen but the round went thru him and lodged in the back of an empty seat a row behind him. Kids were sitting in adjacent seats. He was seriously hurt but recovered. The theatre was of course emptied of terrified patrons.


If you carry in a pocket, a pocket holster which covers the trigger and trigger guard is not a luxury. It is a necessity.

pax

pax
December 13, 2007, 06:02 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071213/LOCAL/712130526

Oh, and um. If you do decide to carry in a pocket without a holster, at least don't dump your car keys into the same pocket.

Off-duty cop shoots self in foot

By Vic Ryckaert
vic.ryckaert@indystar.com

An off-duty police officer shot himself in the foot at a Westside auto parts store Wednesday.

Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department Officer Thomas D Weida, 40, suffered a bullet wound to his right foot when his .45-caliber handgun accidentally discharged at the W I Motor Supply store, 4250 W. Morris St., at 3:15 p.m., according to a police report.

The gun was Weida's personal firearm and not department issue, police said. He was carrying it in his front pocket when it fired.

"When he reached in to his pocket to pull out his key ring it became entangled in the trigger of the pistol and it discharged," Sgt. Paul Thompson said in a written statement.

Weida was taken to Methodist Hospital in good condition, Thompson said.

No one else was injured.

Weida, a nine-year veteran, is assigned to the department's traffic section.

pax

stephen426
December 13, 2007, 07:54 PM
Anyone who's stupid enough to carry an unholstered GLOCK in their pocket with a chambered round... well, they really shouldn't be reproducing anyway.

Carrying a Glock unholstered is asking for a Darwin Award. Your eulogy will be a feature on Fark.com after you put one through your femoral artery.

You guys are so petrified of carrying Glocks unholsters and pocket carry. I do both on a regular basis and have been doing so for over 5 years. When I pocket carry, I carry it in in my front pants pocket with my wallet over the front of it to break up the outline. Nothing else goes in the pocket to prevent snagging the trigger (or scratching the gun). It is slower to draw from pocket holsters and it adds bulk. When I carry IWB without a holster, I carry in the 3 o'clock position with a belt on. I use care when inserting the gun into my waistband and my belt covers the trigger guard (and triiger of course). I simply untuck my shirt a little and it covers the gun. I work at a restaurant and have carried this way for years without ever being made. I just have to remember to reach for things with my weak hand and not to bend towards my weak side. For all you alarmists, keep waiting for something to happen... It won't. :rolleyes:

rb4browns
December 13, 2007, 08:20 PM
For all you alarmists, keep waiting for something to happen... It won't.

I'm curious as to how many people who have had accidental/negligent discharges felt the same way as this poster. My guess would be most if not all. It's like saying you won't ever be in a car accident because you are always a careful driver. Famous last words.....

Manedwolf
December 13, 2007, 09:24 PM
What stephen426 doesn't realize is that every one of those people who did shoot themselves felt the same way.

Then one day, a coin slips in there, something falls out of the wallet, who knows.

Oh well. All we can do here is hope that when it happens to him, it doesn't hit anyone else!

Erik
December 13, 2007, 10:28 PM
Given the availabilty, cost, and benefits of pocket holsters, there really isn't much of an argument for NOT using them.

stephen426
December 13, 2007, 10:59 PM
Given the availabilty, cost, and benefits of pocket holsters, there really isn't much of an argument for NOT using them.

From your posts, it seems like you would actually want it to happen just so you can say you were right. Whatever. :rolleyes:

They are readily available in my area. I can afford it. My problem with them is that while there are benefits, there are also reasons not to use them. Bulk and speed of draw are the main issues. As I mentioned, I use care when inserting my gun into my belt and I do the same when I pocket carry. Holsters often have hooks or straps that give away the fact you are carrying. They also add a fair amount of bulk. If you guys can list some very thin holsters that don't have hooks or straps that give away your concealment, I'm not opposed. I just haven't found anything that fits the bill yet.

rb4browns
December 13, 2007, 11:17 PM
Bulk and speed of draw are the main issues. As I mentioned, I use care when inserting my gun into my belt and I do the same when I pocket carry. Holsters often have hooks or straps that give away the fact you are carrying. They also add a fair amount of bulk. If you guys can list some very thin holsters that don't have hooks or straps that give away your concealment, I'm not opposed. I just haven't found anything that fits the bill yet

I have no doubt that you use care. In fact, I'll bet 99% of people who have had accidental/negligent discharges said the same thing before they shot themselves or someone else.

With regards to speed of the draw that is a silly argument. As far as bulk, yes, you may get added bulk but a gun is already bulky in most cases. I carry a S&W 642 concealed every day in dress slacks or khakis. The bulge in my pocket looks like a Blackberry. I use a Bob Mika pocket holster that breaks up the outline of my gun and it does not have straps.

orionengnr
December 13, 2007, 11:22 PM
You guys are so petrified of carrying Glocks unholsters and pocket carry. I do both on a regular basis and have been doing so for over 5 years. When I pocket carry, I carry it in in my front pants pocket with my wallet over the front of it to break up the outline.

I don't know anything about you, but I cannot carry any double stack in my pocket. Of course, I don't wear saggy/baggy/dragiges, either.

I cannot even imagine carrying a double stack Glock and a wallet in the same pocket....

Manedwolf
December 13, 2007, 11:23 PM
Holsters often have hooks or straps that give away the fact you are carrying. They also add a fair amount of bulk. If you guys can list some very thin holsters that don't have hooks or straps that give away your concealment, I'm not opposed. I just haven't found anything that fits the bill yet.

Never seen a DeSantis Nemesis?

Shamalama
December 14, 2007, 03:29 PM
Holsters are mandatory for CCW in Georgia.

Here's mine:
http://www.commonfolkusingcommonsense.com/pics/guncontrol/concealedcarry.jpg

http://www.commonfolkusingcommonsense.com/pics/guncontrol/pocketcarry.jpg

Stevie-Ray
December 14, 2007, 10:45 PM
That is one reason why I won't even contemplate small-of-back carry. Of course, having had spinal fusion surgery, I might be a bit over-protective of my back...Nope, just being sensible. If you fall flat on your back while carrying SOB......I shudder to think of the damage done to the spine, then. I carry SOB to answer the front door sometimes, and at no other time.

And my P32 is always in an Uncle Mike's #1 in my back pocket. Scares me to think about nothing protecting the trigger on any pocket gun. Cripes, my panic alarm from my key fob is going off quite a bit just because a crease in my pants sets it off.

stephen426
December 15, 2007, 12:01 AM
And my P32 is always in an Uncle Mike's #1 in my back pocket. Scares me to think about nothing protecting the trigger on any pocket gun. Cripes, my panic alarm from my key fob is going off quite a bit just because a crease in my pants sets it off.

We are talking about two diferent things here. One is sinply pressing a flat button and the other is snagging a trigger that is protected by a trigger guard. I don't carry a lot of junk in my wallet so it is relatively thin. When I pocket carry, I carry the wallet in front of the gun and the wallet prints. It just looks like a fat wallet. I haven't been made yet so I guess it works.

For what its worth, I am really a creature of habit and I carry everything I carry in the same place. Wallet in the right front pocket, Keys and any change in my left front pocket, a business card holder/receipt holder in my right back pocket, and when I carry my flashlight, its in my left back pocket. I carry my phone in a phone holster at the 1 o'clock position and my knife clipped to my waistband behind it. If I carry a PDA, its clipped at 9 o'clock. I know it seems kind of anal retentive, but I can just grab whatever I need without thinking about it and without looking. I leave everything I carry in one place and I rarely ever forget to bring something I need. It also saves me a hell of a lot of time in the morning since I don't have to play hide and go seek with my stuff.

1goodshot
December 15, 2007, 06:35 AM
I carry my glock without a holster but the chamber is empty, to dangerous IMO to do it that way with a loaded chamber.

stephen426
December 15, 2007, 10:00 AM
I carry my glock without a holster but the chamber is empty, to dangerous IMO to do it that way with a loaded chamber.

Please consider an experiment... Remove the magazine and rack the slide so that your Glock is half-cocked. Insert your magazine as usual and carry it that way. At night, remove your magazine and retract the slide slightly to ensure that you have not chambeed a round any time during the day. Do not retract it to the point where you would cock the gun. Check the trigger and see if it went off at any point. If you do that long enough, you might realize that accidental discharges are not really that easy assuming you use care and don't put anything that could snag it.

Would you guys feel it was safe to carry a Glock chambered if I installed something like a Safe T Block? Those are easily removed right? I can understand wanting other forum members to be safe, but I have to say it seems some of you would realy prefer I shoot myself to prove yourselves right. Sheesh! :p

Erik
December 15, 2007, 01:29 PM
I'm sure I speak for everyone by saying that nobody wants you or anyone else to come to harm.

Erik
December 15, 2007, 01:31 PM
As for Safe T Blocks, I have observed two seperate shooters, despite assurances as to their level of familiarity, forget to clear their blocks in training.

But that is a different type of safety issue.

rb4browns
December 16, 2007, 02:19 AM
If you do that long enough, you might realize that accidental discharges are not really that easy assuming you use care and don't put anything that could snag it.


Nobody is saying that an accidental/negligent discharge is easy, we're only sayign that they do happen and specifically I am trying to point out that few if any of the folks who experienced them thought differently than you do. Nobody expects an accidental discharge to happen, that's why they are called "accidental."


Would you guys feel it was safe to carry a Glock chambered if I installed something like a Safe T Block? Those are easily removed right? I can understand wanting other forum members to be safe, but I have to say it seems some of you would realy prefer I shoot myself to prove yourselves right. Sheesh!

I genuinally do not want to see you shoot yourself or even worse shoot someone else. I'm simply at a loss to understand what appears to be a genuine self-belief that you are 100% incapable of an accidental/negligent discharge. That belief seems to be leading you to take needless risks.

shep854
December 17, 2007, 09:38 AM
Another problem with not using a pocket holster is that the gun can rotate in your pocket, so that the grip is down and the muzzle is up. Aside from the thought of the muzzle now pointing toward your vitals, this can really slow down your draw, if you have to fumble with the gun in your pocket.

I use the very inexpensive Uncle Mike's pocket holster. It adds very little to bulk (MUCH less than a wallet:D) but it stabilizes and protects my pistol nicely.

Thunderhawk88
December 17, 2007, 10:35 AM
but I have to say it seems some of you would realy prefer I shoot myself to prove yourselves right. Sheesh!

I do not believe anyone advocated you do anything but what you are comfortable with. Everyone gave their opinion on the best way they believe to pocket carry a Glock. You can do it any way you want, I know I'll keep singing bass. :)

Silentarmy
December 17, 2007, 01:10 PM
As I told a member on THR last night... I don't make the rules regarding pocket carrying Glocks but be sure to post some pics of the AD or in this case NEGLIGENT Discharge when you do shoot yourself or something else. Being Stupid on purpose takes the "accidental" part right out of the equation!

Stevie-Ray
December 17, 2007, 09:23 PM
We are talking about two diferent things here. One is sinply pressing a flat button and the other is snagging a trigger that is protected by a trigger guard. Uh huh. And one is happening about once a week on average, and one needs to happen only once to spell disaster. Your opinion is noted, but I'll be packing in a holster at all times, thank you very much.

And BTW, the P32 is the ONLY thing in the pocket it resides in. It will STILL always be in a holster. If it's truly not needed, at least I will be erring on the side of caution, and not losing anything in draw.

pax
December 17, 2007, 09:41 PM
I do believe this one has run its course, and can go nowhere useful from here.

Closed.

pax