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butwhat
December 8, 2007, 08:12 PM
Given these rules:

The only legal handguns are centerfire revolvers or centerfire single-shot
handguns of .30 caliber or larger with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches.
It shall be unlawful to take or attempt to take white-tailed deer by the
use of semi-automatic handguns, muzzleloading handguns, or handguns
altered to allow for shoulder firing.
The only legal ammunition for a centerfire handgun is (1) a bottleneck
centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding
1.4 inches, or (2) a straightwalled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber
or larger, with no minimum case length; both of which must be available
with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability
of at least 500 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.

What would be the best round for handgunning deer in Illinois?
500 S&W, 454 Casull are a couple I've been considering. I would be interested in a T/C in a good caliber.

john1911
December 8, 2007, 10:52 PM
I use either a .41 mag or a .44 mag. Either one will get the job done on IL whitetails.

500 S&W, 454 Casull are a couple I've been considering.

Those should work as well. A little more than I want to shoot.

jrothWA
December 8, 2007, 11:41 PM
the .357Mag, .41Mag, .44Mag for sure, then maybe the .30 & .35 Herretts' in the T/C.

Don't have ballistic chart but would this also allow the 38-40 & 44-40?

Re-read original post, sounds like maybe the .30 Carbine???

klcmschlesinger
December 9, 2007, 12:59 AM
I handgun hunt in Illinois with my Ruger SRH 44 mag. It'll take any whitetail in the state. My uncle uses a 357 and has taken some deer with good shot placement.

Fremmer
December 9, 2007, 01:13 AM
.44 mag with a 6 or 8 inch barrel.

First Sergeant
December 9, 2007, 08:41 AM
Dont forget if you aint a resident of The Land of Lincoln you aint gonna hunt with no handgun or long rifle in their sandbox.

ISP2605
December 9, 2007, 08:48 AM
then maybe the .30 & .35 Herretts' in the T/C.
Case is too long. Max case length for a bottleneck cartridge is 1.4"

Don't have ballistic chart but would this also allow the 38-40 & 44-40? Re-read original post, sounds like maybe the .30 Carbine???

Factory ammo charts don't meet 500 ft-lbs limit.

john1911
December 9, 2007, 10:15 AM
Dont forget if you aint a resident of The Land of Lincoln you aint gonna hunt with no handgun or long rifle in their sandbox.

What???????

butwhat
December 9, 2007, 10:29 AM
What is the SRH 44 mag?

klcmschlesinger
December 9, 2007, 11:39 AM
Super Redhawk.

44capnball
December 9, 2007, 01:30 PM
If you really were set on something bottlenecked, there isnt much. I think they make a 440 Cor-Bon barrel for the Encore. Ammo is factory loaded. Amazing they wont let you use the .30-30 in a handgun. :confused: Most popular deer round ever.

Like the others said, hard to go wrong with a 41 or 44 mag for whitetails. But if you got your heart set on a 454 casull you can always shoot 45 colt out of it too for cheaper target practice. I would pick the 454 over the 500 because of that. Also theres a huge selection of 45 cal handgun bullets for handloading.

butwhat
December 9, 2007, 07:07 PM
Let me narrow it down just a little. I would like the pistol to have between a 10" and 16" barrel. The longer the better in my opinion. I would like this gun to shoot out to 200 yards.
Where do I need to go to find out ballistic information on the rounds discussed here?
What I had in mind was a 260 - 300 grain bullet traveling 2000 fps +
Can that be done with Illinois's restrictions?

I don't really care if it's bottle necked or not.

JMynes
December 9, 2007, 07:29 PM
Everyone has an opinion, so here's mine. Get yourself an Encore with a 15" 45-70 barrel. Straight wall and gobs of power. And when you're done slaying Illinois deer, buy another barrel or two for whatever else you want to shoot. You just can't go wrong with all the choices an Encore will give you. The only problem you will run into is not being able to pay the rent because you 'gotta have' another barrel.

44capnball
December 9, 2007, 08:02 PM
What I had in mind was a 260 - 300 grain bullet traveling 2000 fps +
Can that be done with Illinois's restrictions?

That will be tough out of a handgun length barrel when you cant use most bottleneck rounds. Though a 16" barrel might get a little over 2000 with a 454 casull and 240 or 260 gr bullets.

Or something bigger, like JMynes said the 45-70. Also you might look at 444 Marlin. Either way the recoil will be somethin' else.
I wouldnt be too confident of 200 yard shots with those unless you had a super steady bench rest and a good scope, even then the trajectory is going to be like an arch.

Once you get to 16" barrel lengths it just seems to defeat the purpose of a handgun vs. a rifle. Heavy, hard to hold out in front of you.

BILLDAVE
December 9, 2007, 08:07 PM
You guys are forgetting the .45 Long Colt!!

butwhat
December 9, 2007, 08:07 PM
Are the 45-70 and the 444 marlin legal pistol rounds in Illinois?

44capnball
December 9, 2007, 08:22 PM
I think it said any straight sided above 30 caliber.

Heavy 45 colt loads, how could I forget. They can easily top 44 mag ballistics. Just make sure you dont load em in a Colt style six shooter.
Since you need factory charts to show 500 ft lbs or more, you would have that with the +P 45 colt loads.

Too bad the actual 45 colt barrel for the T/C also chambers .410. That's a enormous gap for the bullet to jump, I hear accuracy suffers. But you could use a Ruger Blackhawk :)

44 AMP
December 9, 2007, 08:35 PM
I have both the .45 Colt/.410 barrel AND a barrel in .45 Colt (only). Accuracy with the .45 Colt in the .410 chambered barrel is not up to my standards. That's why I got a barrel for the .45 Colt (no .410 chamber). My .45 Colt barrel is 10", octagon, with iron sights. Shoots well enough for me, although I don't shoot it much, doing most of my .45 Colt shooting with my 7.5" Ruger Blackhawk.

JMynes
December 9, 2007, 08:37 PM
44capnball said, "Or something bigger, like JMynes said the 45-70. Also you might look at 444 Marlin. Either way the recoil will be somethin' else."
Hehehe. Recoil. My thoughts exactly the first time I touched off a full-house 30-06 in my Encore pistol. The new 1/2 recoil loads are much more fun. :cool:

Mark54g
December 10, 2007, 12:08 AM
why so much gun for a skinny deer? A good 180gr .357 mag would do the job without putting quite as much a dent in the web of your hand or the folds of your wallet.

With a handgun, practical limits are about 50yds (you could do further, but your risks of missing go up considerably with loss of site radius. Even scoped, I think a 50yd shot max would be considered clean. Above that, I would be concerned, but realize I don't hunt, especially with handguns, so take that with a grain of salt.

ISP2605
December 10, 2007, 07:51 AM
why so much gun for a skinny deer? A good 180gr .357 mag would do the job without putting quite as much a dent in the web of your hand or the folds of your wallet.

A .357 is minimal for IL deer. You really wouldn't want to go less in caliber or power level. .41 and .44 will do the trick.
If a person hasn't seen IL deer then they don't realize their size. According to Buckmasters the next trophy whitetail will come out of west central IL. Every year there are deer taken that come close to the record. We're talking some big deer. Field dressed at 300+ lbs isn't uncommon in the "Golden Triangle" of west central IL. They're good corn fed deer.
Here are some pictures from previous years.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/ispcapt/DEERD.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/ispcapt/DEERC.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/ispcapt/DEERB.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/ispcapt/DEERA.jpg

Rey B
December 11, 2007, 05:21 PM
Just curious, why the blurred faces? Those are bragging size deer.

ISP2605
December 11, 2007, 05:32 PM
Just curious, why the blurred faces? Those are bragging size deer.
Because those guys aren't me. :mad: I've seen them that big and bigger and with racks like the last one but never seen them either close enough or during hunting season. Those are bragging deer for sure. They didn't make record book tho. Just a shade too small.
The land between the Illinois and Mississippi rivers is called the Golden Triangle. Hunting leases are majorly big business for the land owners and outfitters. The TV shows come in about Oct 1 when bow season starts and they film all season.
The 2 guys in the first picture are now federally convicted felons. That deer was taken illegally and then transported across state lines. Cost them each in excess of $20K plus court costs and their hunting rights are revoked in IL and their home state.

bigautomatic
December 11, 2007, 09:41 PM
How about a 10" PC model .460 S&W? Part of the problem is optics when shooting at 200 yards. To get a good ethical shot you need to get the power up. When you turn the power up you lose a lot of field of view, and also eye relief. I wouldn't want to get a hand gun over 30 caliber pushing past 2,000 fps that close to my face. Choose your optics wisely.

butwhat
December 19, 2007, 07:32 PM
I've decided to go the 444 TC Encore route. Any suggestions as far as price and what to buy would be appreciated.
Thanks for all the suggestions.

kgpcr
December 19, 2007, 08:07 PM
I would go with a .41 or a .44mag. Get a Redhawk with an 8" barrel and put a scope on it.

butwhat
December 19, 2007, 08:19 PM
More info on this post.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265530

What I had in mind was a 260 - 300 grain bullet traveling 2000 fps +

45/70? 444? or something else?

gbran
December 19, 2007, 08:40 PM
500 S&W, 454 Casull are a couple I've been considering.

I have the SRH in .454 with a 2x Burris and 7 1/2 inch barrel. It works good for me and is physically about as big a handgun as I'd like to pack. My big problem with the 500 S&W's is not the caliber, but the physical size. They are big enough, you might as well be carrying a rifle. If your hunting from a stand it probably doesn't matter. I'd suggest .357 on the low side, but 41's, 45 Colt's and 44's should work well for your needs

JMynes
December 19, 2007, 08:50 PM
Seems like you've decided on an Encore. You won't be disappointed! It's a great gun, and a versatile shooting platform that can be expanded to meet many other needs.
As far as 444 vs 45-70, I still vote for 45-70. Either one would get the job done. Thump factor goes to the 45-70, and T/C chambers it from the factory.
Recoil is going to be, ummmmmm, impressive, but manageable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.444_Marlin

butwhat
December 19, 2007, 08:56 PM
How much will I have to pay for an Encore frame? Anything special to look for in grips and such as accessories?

45/70 verse 444

Can someone enlighten me with a velocity, energy and trajectory comparison?

JMynes
December 19, 2007, 09:12 PM
Check those links above for velocity and energy. Not too sure about trajectory, but Google is a wonderful thing. Although either 444 Marlin or 45-70 would be good beyond 100 yards, I'm thinking you're going to get significant bullet drop, and you'll have to do some serious research to know how much.
Most trajectory data you find will be based on rifle barrels. The 15" barrel on the Encore will produce somewhat less velocity, and a bigger bullet drop. Lots of shooting at different ranges would give you your bullet drop numbers, but I'd just limit my shots to 100 yds or less.
I picked my Stainless Encore up for $570 with a .223 barrel. Gunbroker was about the same with shipping and FFL fee, so I bought locally. Since then I've bought 3 more barrels at about $235 each plus shipping. The .22 rimfire barrel was a little more, requires more labor to build it.
Be careful, you'll get hooked!

butwhat
September 14, 2008, 03:21 PM
Illinois handgun hunting regs

The only legal handguns are centerfire revolvers or centerfire single-shot
handguns of .30 caliber or larger with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches.
It shall be unlawful to take or attempt to take white-tailed deer by the
use of semi-automatic handguns, muzzleloading handguns, or handguns
altered to allow for shoulder firing.
The only legal ammunition for a centerfire handgun is (1) a bottleneck
centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding
1.4 inches, or (2) a straightwalled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber
or larger, with no minimum case length; both of which must be available
with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability
of at least 500 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.

I coulda & shoulda got what I was looking for when I first posted. I was traveling & working to much to bother with it then. Now I'm busted up & in a bind for time. I will not be able to shoulder a gun this year but I shoot out of a box blind so I can use a pistol off the boxblind rest.
I was informed that there is no maximum length for a pistol barrel. & from my blind barrel length is not an issue. I can see for a minimum of 1/2 mile in any direction.
Is there any straight walled cartridge that is better than the 45/70 or 444 Marlin out of an Encore heavy rifle barrel with muzzle brake & mercury reducer for shots up to 200 yards?
Does anybody have an Ecore psitol or pistol frame for sale? Or a suitable Encore rifle barrel or Encore rifle for sale?
I didn't realize I wouldn't be able to shoulder a gun this year til in the last week.

Don Gwinn
September 16, 2008, 03:43 PM
I don't know, but if you plan to sit in a blind or a stand like during the earlier seasons, I wish you much luck. Handgun season is way late, long after deer have ceased to move, at least in my little patch of Pike County.

The last time I tried it, I sat in a stand that's a guarantee during firearm season. Nothing. Then I walked all the draws and looked everywhere for sign . . . . still nothing. In that part of the state, I can't figure out where they were. Did deer start hibernating or something?

kyle663
September 16, 2008, 05:59 PM
not sure where pike county is, but in central il you can carry a handgun and longgun at the same time during firearm seasons. also, i could be wrong but last i checked you cant have a rifle barrel on a handgun for il deer hunting. gotta be 16 or less. 41 and 44 mag is what i hunt with.

butwhat
September 16, 2008, 08:42 PM
I haven't heard or read anything about a maximum barrel length in Illinois. If anybody has any verified info please let me know.

This is all I could find. Nothing on a maximum length.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Illinois handgun hunting regs

The only legal handguns are centerfire revolvers or centerfire single-shot
handguns of .30 caliber or larger with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches.
It shall be unlawful to take or attempt to take white-tailed deer by the
use of semi-automatic handguns, muzzleloading handguns, or handguns
altered to allow for shoulder firing.
The only legal ammunition for a centerfire handgun is (1) a bottleneck
centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding
1.4 inches, or (2) a straightwalled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber
or larger, with no minimum case length; both of which must be available
with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability
of at least 500 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.

john1911
September 17, 2008, 06:38 PM
I've never heard of a maximum barrel length for hunting in IL. 4" is the minimum.

Handguns are legal in the general firearm season.

Smaug
September 17, 2008, 07:20 PM
I just picked up a used Redhawk Hunter, 7.5" barrel in 44 Magnum with 4X Leupold that I was planning to use for IL whitetail.

However, since I don't see myself getting a second shot if I miss with the first one, a Contender would have been better.

Encores can handle bigger calibers, but Contenders are lighter.

One sweet thing about the T/C's is that since no space is "wasted" on the cylinder or bolt, it is like a "free" couple inches of barrel length. (and free velocity)

ISP - 300+ lbs. dressed!!?? Damn, I hope I don't get one that big. There's no way I'd be able to drag it back. I'd have to pass and take a small doe. :D

butwhat
October 27, 2008, 06:45 PM
Don Gwinn
Staff


Join Date: 2000-03-09
Location: Virden, IL
Posts: 5,931 I don't know, but if you plan to sit in a blind or a stand like during the earlier seasons, I wish you much luck. Handgun season is way late, long after deer have ceased to move, at least in my little patch of Pike County.

The last time I tried it, I sat in a stand that's a guarantee during firearm season. Nothing. Then I walked all the draws and looked everywhere for sign . . . . still nothing. In that part of the state, I can't figure out where they were. Did deer start hibernating or something? " Quote

I decided on the T/C Encore 444 Marlin 18" ported barrel with brake & the Hornady Leverevolution 265 grain bullet 2325 muzzle velocity. It should be about the same as the new slugs or muzzleloaders. To bad I can't use the pistol for Muzzleloader only season.
Anybody have any ideas on how I can touch my muzzleloader off without shouldering the gun? I've heard of sometype of pad that greatly reduces recoil.
Do these pads work? Any links?

Last year we had 480 acres of corn still in the fields around us. I know where the deer were then.

SWMAGMAN
October 28, 2008, 01:32 AM
Please consider one more....S&W 460 Mag in the XVR or Hunter. Velocities are incredible (factory loads approaching .308 rifle energy) - flat shooting, incredibly accurate, truly a 200yd capable handgun. Recoil is totally manageable with the X frame and supplied compensator. Can shoot .454 or .45 Long Colt with the same gun for economy or entertainment....what's not to love? Need to kill a Bear/Moose/Elk? No problem - grab a box of CorBons and hurl some serious lead (say 360 grain at 1900+fps). This gun can do it all!

butwhat
October 28, 2008, 08:14 AM
Please consider one more....S&W 460 Mag in the XVR or Hunter. Velocities are incredible (factory loads approaching .308 rifle energy) - flat shooting, incredibly accurate, truly a 200yd capable handgun. Recoil is totally manageable with the X frame and supplied compensator. Can shoot .454 or .45 Long Colt with the same gun for economy or entertainment....what's not to love? Need to kill a Bear/Moose/Elk? No problem - grab a box of CorBons and hurl some serious lead (say 360 grain at 1900+fps). This gun can do it all!

What is the X frame? XVR?
Tell me more about the X frame & supplied compensator.

Nevertoomanyguns
October 29, 2008, 09:47 AM
Our bucks up here in Maine get pretty darn big too, I haven't yet but my uncle dropped a nice 10pt the last day of deer season back a few seasons ago with his Colt python 6" barrel using 158gr soft points. He shot it at about 35 yards we tracked it about 50 yards piled up double lunged, complete pass through. He had been running does hard he lost a lot of weight and had no food in his stomach. He still dressed out at 226 lbs. My friend dad and I have shot bucks that dressed out at 260 lbs, 259 lbs, 235 lbs, 213 lbs and 201 lbs. I have seen bucks on the hoof while scouting that push the 300 lbs range, and they are shot in the State. I hunt mainly with a rifle but carry a 6" 686 with 180gr, cast performance that I handloaded. I haven't had a chance yet but if I get a buck under 50 yards from me I will use the 686 without hesitation.

The .357 will kill them it has done it in the past I know that Global warming has made bucks stronger but not that strong. Use the gun within it's limitations. I do own a 44 mag and I take it out too but I don't feel under gunned with the .357. I can actually hit a standard pie plate 6 out of 6 with the 44 mag, iron sights, at a 100 yards but even still at that I have set my max. range at about 60 yards after that its rifle work.

Water-Man
October 29, 2008, 10:53 AM
.357mag(using Buffalo Bore ammo or similar), .41mag & .44mag

Smaug
October 30, 2008, 04:44 PM
<meant to start a new thread, deleted>

butwhat
November 29, 2008, 11:28 PM
I have the 444 Marlin and love it.
I am shooting the Leverevolution ammo 260 grain 2300 fps
With the factory brake and the 18oz Staub mercury recoil reducer in the forearm it shoots like a 357.
At 100 yards I shot an 8 shot 3" group. 5 shots of which were in a one inch square. The other 3 were in an arc above the 1" group. I must've got 3 bad bullets. It surely couldn't have been shooter error?

tmorg
November 30, 2008, 01:52 PM
I took this doe first season. 500 S&W, 400 grain LFP.65 yards
I won the gun at a firemans benifit or I probably would have bought a 44mag
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/tmorg/2008Deerhuntingtrip044.jpg