PDA

View Full Version : Robbery in progress at your house, and you're in your underwear???


MyGunsJammed
December 1, 2007, 12:10 PM
I read this post over on the car forum I'm always on:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showpost.php?p=5005699&postcount=1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A couple of Saturdays ago, I was woken up @ 7am, with the EVo alarm going off, looking out my bedroom window, I saw a tall skinny guy in the passenger side.

I sprang up, grabbed the Glock & ran out the house in my undies waving the gun.

He saw me & ran, I chased him down to his Minivan, yup, waving the gun & in only my undies.

He didn't get anything, but broke the passenger door. This is the 3rd time the EVO has been broken into, & we're really thinking about selling it.

Watch out, for a White I believe Doge Caravan with black bumpers.

Oh, I installed a 6 camera video system with night vision, & now keep the Glock next to the bed & not in the gun safe, next time, he will get shot.


How would you guys have handled the situation???? Discuss.....

Jay1958
December 1, 2007, 12:19 PM
Since I wear Calvin Klein underwear, I usually don't wear pants anyway. I want everyone to see how trendy my skivvies are. But you meant tactically...

I would have been helpless tactically, since I don't own a Glock. Or a Ferrari. An 'Evo' is a Ferrari, right? But I know what you're thinking. How can a guy who wears Calvin Klein underwear and no pants NOT own a Ferrari?

Seriously, it sounds like a vehicle break-in, attempted car theft, NOT a "robbery in progress".

MyGunsJammed
December 1, 2007, 12:24 PM
hahaha too funny, no an EVO is not a Ferrari...its a sports sedan made by Mitsubishi....


but anyhow, tactically I was wondering if the guy did the right thing by letting the guy live for breaking into his car on his property??

I'll play devils advocate here.... If my house/car was broken into, and if I was licensed to have a pistol, I probably would have tried to sneak up on the guy and shoot him dead point blank range, as long as he was on my property and actually in the act of burglary....


ok you mention "attempted car theft" to me thats robbery....trying to steal something that belongs to me....while its on my property...so shouldnt I be entitled to protect my property?

SGHOTH
December 1, 2007, 12:44 PM
The law varies a lot from state to state. In some areas lethal force is only allowed if your life is in danger. Other states have a duty to retreat requirement. Still other states allow you to defend your property.

Additionally there are different regulations for inside and outside your home. You need to check your local laws for the correct legal answer. The correct moral answer depends on your values. In many locations if you were to shoot someone breaking into your car you would be charged. I think NY would not look kindly to firing on someone in the scenario you outlined.

Hammer1
December 1, 2007, 12:52 PM
The story used to go around that in Nebraska you can shoot to protect yourself, your loved ones, your friends, your property, and your honor.

Think this story was spread my Okies.

Yellowfin
December 1, 2007, 12:55 PM
What is the most tactically advantageous brand and style of underwear for such scenarios? I honestly haven't ever looked at my choice of underwear from the tactical perspective.

Jay1958
December 1, 2007, 01:14 PM
You must be a newbie to have asked THAT question!

The OBVIOUS answer is 5.11, followed closely by UnderArmor! Of course, the wannabes and posers are mostly wearing Magills.

<just kidding, had to razz my friends who are Magills fans>

"What is the most tactically advantageous brand and style of underwear for such scenarios?"

Jay1958
December 1, 2007, 01:21 PM
robbery: various "dictionary" definitions

-- larceny by threat of violence
-- unlawful taking or attempted taking of property that is in the immediate possession of another by force or the threat of force
-- felonious appropriation of property by means of personal violence, or through the threat of personal violence
-- taking anything of value from any person by force, threat of force, or violence
-- the taking of some item(s), while a person is being threatened with a weapon (knife, gun, club, etc)
-- the unlawful taking of anything of value by force or threat of force

There would seem to me to be no violence or threat of violence if someone is in your driveway trying to steal your car, and believes that no one is aware of their presence, especially in the absence of any visible weapons.

...ok you mention "attempted car theft" to me thats robbery....trying to steal something that belongs to me....while its on my property...

BillCA
December 1, 2007, 01:57 PM
SGHOTH nailed it with regards to the legalities.

tactically I was wondering if the guy did the right thing by letting the guy live for breaking into his car on his property??

Ask yourself which you'd rather do...
1. Shoot the guy by the car, spend 8+ hours with the cops, your attorney and a prosecutor, paying someone to blot the deceased's brains out of your seats and repaint the car and pay a civil attorney to handle the wrongful-death civil suit against you... face criminal charges for reckless manslaughter, spend 3 year in jail plus the civil suit...

OR
2. Light the guy up from your window with a bright flashlight, scream "Don't Move! Put up your hands" and when he flees scream "I'll shoot your a** next time!" at his back, call the cops, get dressed, check the damage with the cops, secure the car, go to bed and call the insurance company in the morning safe in the knowledge that the would-be thief is unlikely to come back.


Tactically, the guy was stupid. Not only did he put himself at greater risk of injury, but he failed to don any sort of protective clothing. He also left the area of the crime "in pursuit" of a criminal who'd "given up the attempt" to commit a property crime.

In some states, leaving a protected area (house, apartment) to confront the person over a property crime and then shooting him will land you in jail. Self-defense doesn't play in this case as you put yourself in greater danger.

Someone breaking into your car (or even your house) who flees down the street when confronted has "ceased his illegal activities" and his flight indicates "no willingness for a confrontation or capture". If you chase him down the street to his car, then threaten to shoot him, you may be deemed the aggressor. The further you chase him, the more likely that is. Even in states that allow you to protect your property, once he leaves the scene, he no longer poses a threat to you or your property.

rampage841512
December 1, 2007, 01:57 PM
I would have run outside in my undies to stop the guy, but with a 20 ga. pump action winchester shotgun. If he ran I'd get description of him/his vehicle and call the police. I ambushed a guy in my undies with that shotgun once before when he thought he could make off with one of my atv's. He decided running surrender was a better choice than running.

MyGunsJammed
December 1, 2007, 03:06 PM
Thanks guys for your input......

In the heat of the moment a gun/homeowner must make quick and wise decisions as to how to handle the situation. All too often if we are angry, upset, and feel violated its all to easy to reach for the gun to use it....but one must think of the legal consequences of his actions....

and I think one of the posters made a good point about self defense while being threatened.... so yes using excessive force is something a home owner must be sure not to use too much of.

Anyhow I hope that in this case with the car owner in Tacoma, WA I hope that the theif wont ever try to come back again....

TBR
December 1, 2007, 03:36 PM
"An 'Evo' is a Ferrari, right?" (don't know how to work quotes)

The Ferrari FXX is known as the "Evo", But I think this guy was talking about a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution- evo short for evolution. If he owned a Ferrari I would expect him to run out with something much more expensive than a GLOCK, Like a minigun strapped around his waist. (NOT bashing glocks at all,From what I've seen, they are fantastic shooters)

But, Back on topic, if someone was breaking into my vehicle/house, I would go out naked if I had to. I don't know if I would shoot the guy if he was *just* breaking into my car, as my life would not be in threat... Don't know how shooting someone in that situation would hold in court. If he pulled out a weapon and threatned me, yes I would shoot. If he turned and ran, I would attempt to tackle and hold him for police, but then again, if it came to a struggle he may take my weapon away, and shoot me! Now that I think about it, I would do as another poster said and just shine a light in his face, let him know i was armed, and if he ran away scream "NEXT TIME I'LL SHOOT YOU ON SIGHT!"

BillCA
December 1, 2007, 04:13 PM
But, Back on topic, if someone was breaking into my vehicle/house, I would go out naked if I had to. I don't know if I would shoot the guy if he was *just* breaking into my car, as my life would not be in threat... Don't know how shooting someone in that situation would hold in court. If he pulled out a weapon and threatned me, yes I would shoot.

Tennesse law is probably different, but in many states, even if the guy threatened you with a weapon once you were outside, prosecutors may deny you a self-defense argument. This would be based on intentionally placing yourself in jepoardy instead of remaining in a "safer" location.

VonFireball
December 1, 2007, 04:32 PM
What would I have done?????? Probably the same thing as dude....

That scenario will never creep on me cause I sleep in my street clothes, changing only after I shower each morning.

That is what I call Tactical.

animal
December 1, 2007, 05:33 PM
For those of us who sleep nude, the "tactical" approach is to rush quickly out ... gaining surprise when the BG is distracted by our enormous manhood. :p

workinwifdakids
December 1, 2007, 06:28 PM
That's right, man.

You go out in your underwear, you're likely to get tossed in jail for carrying a concealed rape weapon.

Your best advice is to go commando. They won't even notice the firearm.

:D

Tanzer
December 1, 2007, 07:02 PM
Two exclusive issues here. What you're wearing has little to do with what you do. This guy could have been in Armony suit or panty hose - no difference tactically.
He also left the area of the crime "in pursuit" of a criminal who'd "given up the attempt" to commit a property crime.
Here in RI, that makes all the difference in the world.

JohnKSa
December 1, 2007, 09:20 PM
...tactically I was wondering if the guy did the right thing by letting the guy live for breaking into his car on his property?? It's rare that you can legally use deadly force in property crimes.

In a very few states (maybe only one) you could go outside armed and try to stop the crime and if there were no other way to prevent the loss of property without exposing yourself to grave danger you could, in some instances, use deadly force to prevent property damage or loss even if you were not being attacked.

In some states you could go outside armed and try to stop the crime but you wouldn't be justified in responding with deadly force unless you were attacked. Then the deadly force would be being used in self-defense, not to protect property.

In some states if you left your house and tried to stop a crime, you would have instigated a confrontation. That creates a situation where your use of deadly force may be legally restricted even if the criminal attacks you.

It all depends on where you are and I'm sure that the three scenarios above don't cover all the possibilities. Every gun owner has a responsibility to learn the laws in his area.

sw_florida
December 2, 2007, 08:03 AM
Putting on a steering wheel lock could dampen the interest.

MyGunsJammed
December 2, 2007, 08:27 AM
sw_florida Putting on a steering wheel lock could dampen the interest.


or buying a rust bucket for a car, and leave the nice car in the garage locked...

katana8869
December 2, 2007, 10:25 AM
For those of us who sleep nude, the "tactical" approach is to rush quickly out ... gaining surprise when the BG is distracted by our enormous manhood.

In Fl, your "weapon" has to remain concealed. I'd recommend throwing on a Smartcarry first. Besides, where else are you gonna stow a spare magazine? :eek: :D

Jay1958
December 2, 2007, 12:17 PM
There again, it depends on the situation!

How cold is it? If you go out wearing nothing but underwear and it 15 degrees F outside, you will be at a disadvantage!

We have a gravel driveway. If I run outside barefooted and have a need to leave the sidewalk and grass and go out into the gravel - disadvantage! Apartment dwellers or those in urban areas might be at a disadvantage running outside barefoot due to the possibility of broken glass, or other 'foot hazards'.

So while your comment might hold true in many cases, it serves to show that in self-defense situations, 'one size NEVER fits all'.

What you're wearing has little to do with what you do. This guy could have been in Armony suit or panty hose - no difference tactically.

theberettaman
December 2, 2007, 12:36 PM
Buck naked and blasting is the way I roll! :p
Seriously,if someone was breaking into my cars,he's got a long way to go to get back to a car parked on the street.He's pretty much either dead,or after I wound him,subdue him,nurse him back to health,and torture him in my barn for a couple months,he'll wish he was dead.:D

MortalWombat
December 2, 2007, 03:06 PM
I would stay in bed and let my trunk monkey (http://www.trunkmonkey.com/content/view/44/51/) handle things.

MyGunsJammed
December 2, 2007, 03:28 PM
theberettaman Buck naked and blasting is the way I roll!
Seriously,if someone was breaking into my cars,he's got a long way to go to get back to a car parked on the street.He's pretty much either dead,or after I wound him,subdue him,nurse him back to health,and torture him in my barn for a couple months,he'll wish he was dead.


Some of us are not fortunate enough to own a barn with lots of acreage

jfrey123
December 2, 2007, 03:47 PM
Also a naked sleeper here... If a BG ever needs dealing with, I figure having two guns out might scare him more :p

But back to topic, being a newbie who had a similar situation with a car alarm, shooting is a big no no in most cases. My alarm ended up being false, but when I went to investigate I grabbed the night stand weapon. I don't feel cars are worth a person's life (yes, even a scumbag burgular), but if you're going to risk running into a determined person who might be armed, you should be ready for the worse case senario. Take yer gun, but only use if the BG engages you. ;)

MyGunsJammed
December 2, 2007, 03:53 PM
I think of the case where the football player in Miami florida got shot.....I mean how the hell does he confront an armed burglar inside the house with a machete? I know this is off topic a bit but man....I would think that at least he would be licensed and packing, being that he is a celebrity and everything.....

workinwifdakids
December 2, 2007, 07:49 PM
When I shoot in the buff, I always shoot "gangsta-gat" syle (90-cant to the left), so the brass doesn't ricochet off any delicate parts.

So ends your PSA for the day.

MortalWombat
December 2, 2007, 08:32 PM
I think of the case where the football player in Miami florida got shot.....I mean how the hell does he confront an armed burglar inside the house with a machete? I know this is off topic a bit but man....I would think that at least he would be licensed and packing, being that he is a celebrity and everything.....According to this article (http://sports.ign.com/articles/837/837900p1.html), he was likely not allowed to own a gun due to a probation agreement.

MyGunsJammed
December 2, 2007, 08:34 PM
Ohh that explains everything...thanks...

theberettaman
December 3, 2007, 01:01 AM
Live by the sword,die by the sword.I'm not trying to be insensitive it's just that when you run with a bad crowd?????? It wasn't his fault that his house was targeted for a burglary.It wasn't his fault that the burglar's decided to bring a gun but it was his fault for getting into a previous situation that prevented him from protecting himself/family.His best recourse was to not go looking for confrontation when we was unable to deal with the situation.Hey the cops don't respond to a burglary call with machetti's drawn.

MortalWombat
December 3, 2007, 11:52 AM
I don't know much about the guy other than what's been in the news, but from what I have been hearing and reading, it seems like the people who did know him say that he had turned his life around as of late.

I suppose one can use the fact that he chose not to break the law by illegally getting a gun to protect himself as evidence of this.

In any event, I think I'm done with this particular hijack subtopic in this thread.

Carry on.

obxned
December 3, 2007, 01:41 PM
I've got the ultimate weapon for this situation - a decent camera with a nice telephoto lens that produces useable pictures even in very low light with the help of my computer.

I'd rather see the little snot busted and sentenced to be 'Big Bubba's wife' for 4 to 6 years! Besides, I just hate all that crime scene tape in my front yard and the hassle of explaining a dead body, even one formerly owned by a creep with a lengthy record.

markj
December 3, 2007, 01:56 PM
I was wondering if the guy did the right thing by letting the guy live for breaking into his car on his property??


Another scary person. Of course he did the right thing. Taking a life isnt a little thing. many that think they are mentally prepared find they are not then they get to fight demons.......

I know of no car worth a life, nothing I have is worth that cept my family and friends. Let em take it, killing is last resort, always.

Musketeer
December 3, 2007, 02:43 PM
but anyhow, tactically I was wondering if the guy did the right thing by letting the guy live for breaking into his car on his property??

I'll play devils advocate here.... If my house/car was broken into, and if I was licensed to have a pistol, I probably would have tried to sneak up on the guy and shoot him dead point blank range, as long as he was on my property and actually in the act of burglary....


I have been travelling for several weeks and not fully up to date on the forums. Today I check and find two real winners!

This is great. The poster is somewhere in NYS, meaning he is already probably in enemy territory when it comes to the 2A and self defense. Then he admits that he thinks we should kill someone if we catch them stealing. Even better he suggests sneaking up on someone committing a crime with the purpose of executing him while in no danger himself.

I hope one of these tacticool wonders actually does get involved in a defensive shooting. We can then have both a criminal and an irresponsible gun owner off the street! Think people. Even if you are dumb enough to believe some of the garbage I see posted here realize it can and will be traced back to you as a part of a criminal investigation. If the police in NY have you involved in a shooting with ANY question to it, and the attitude demostrated in the post will reveal itself in the stress and adrenaline fueled aftermath when the police speak with you, then you can expect your computer to be grabbed and gone through with a fine tooth comb. You will then be in the position of explaining to a jury that while you advised sneaking up on a person who presented no immediate danger to you and executing them you really didn't do it this time!

Wildalaska
December 3, 2007, 03:05 PM
I'm always fully dressed at night with my Totoro pajamas

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaana-mari/219276846

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/59/219276846_5470a627e7.jpg?v=0

WildtakethatAlaska TM

Capt Charlie
December 3, 2007, 04:29 PM
:rolleyes:

There are so many reasons to close this thread that I can't decide which one to use. Tell ya what; I'll use 'em all.

Closed.