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smithrob75
November 27, 2007, 11:07 PM
For CCW holders, would you run, or shoot them both.

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5055323&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Keep in mind, this is a real world situation

dwatts47
November 27, 2007, 11:30 PM
Here we go again.


I dont' know what I would have done. All I saw was two men with guns drawn. Can't see that adding a 3rd (me) would have helped.

I need to see what HAPPENS to determine what course of action I'd take.
(Likely trying to not get shot 1st, then deciding whether to shoot, last)

Sigma 40 Blaster
November 28, 2007, 07:21 AM
I'm from Dallas and spent many a Saturday at Big T's.

I'm very interested to hear some input on this from a legal standpoint. This probably is not a place most of the TFL members would go to spend time...I'll leave it at that.

As I understand the LAW I can use deadly force to protect myself or an innocent third party. Unless you saw this from the very beginning you'd have no way of knowing who fired the first shot and even less ways of knowing if one, or either, of them were innocent.

I'm not sure involving myself in this matter or one like it would make it any better...if my wife and son are with me keeping them from getting shot is my first priority. While the actions of those individuals are a deadly threat to us it's not targeted at us. I'm not sure what the law says about that.

From a "tactical" standpoint...if I have a good angle to stop both of these individuals and start with the one closest to me the one further from me is either going to perceive me as a threat and start shooting my way...maybe he'd run but from the description of the fight I don't think so. Too much adrenaline going. Maybe stopping one BG (the closest one) would end this threat to the public. In the event that it didn't I still have my "good angle" to stop the other threat if he continues shooting. The area behind and beside both individuals is also of utmost importance...if I miss I want my 180 grain chunk of lead to hit a brick wall...I do not want it to travel to the little kids clothes store or the music shop around this area.

So what would I do? If absolutely necessary I'm thinking stop the closest threat OR the "safest" threat in hopes that the other will flee but be ready to stop that threat as well. That is only if I'm out in the open and have no opportunities to take cover. I despise the idea of shooting someone in the back but would it be warranted in a situation like this? Maybe so. Or am I being too cowboy???

BillCA
November 28, 2007, 08:14 AM
As a CCW holder, it's not my fight.
Not until one or both shooters start firing at me.

My first priority will be to get myself and family to safety. One hopes that can be accomplished without either of these two dipsticks tossing a stray round into my backside.

If one or both flee the scene, would I try to take a shot at them? I doubt it. It'd only add another round flying about that could injure a bystander.

rampage841512
November 28, 2007, 09:59 AM
I'm out of there. Way, way to much confusion to make a clear call.

obxned
November 28, 2007, 11:29 AM
You do not have enough facts to do anything other than keep from becoming the catcher in their game and call 911.

Sigma 40 Blaster
November 29, 2007, 01:35 AM
I'm glad that for once my first thoughts are echoed by a few TFL'ers...it's not my fight and the best way to protect me and mine is to get and stay out of the way. Not from a legal perspective but a good common sense perspective.

What you cannot see in this video is the size of this place...it is a huge indoor flea market with almost no interior walls, very thin walls separate some stores but it's mostly open air. Depending on the day and the time this place can be so packed that it's hard to get through.

I can think of a few circumstances that would cause me to try to stop this exchange but nothing very likely.

JohnKSa
November 29, 2007, 02:16 AM
Looks like a VERY good time to evacuate yourself and as many people as you can and do it as quickly as you can.

jabotinsky
November 29, 2007, 02:05 PM
I think you should attempt to interject yourself as a mediator, and see if you can get these two fellows to settle their differences through a more courteous exchange. :D

Perldog007
November 29, 2007, 08:12 PM
I would try to stay out of it and try to get away from it. drawing my own weapon would be only if unable to escape and threatened by their actions.

Since you can't tell if either are LEO best to stay out of it. You also can't tell about gang affiliation. I did see some indicators of lack of training, but that could be a man preserving his cover.

kgpcr
November 29, 2007, 10:15 PM
Stay out of it. get to cover and help others to cover. if they present a threat to me then i protect myself. I would stay out of it as long as i could! escape and evade unless i have to defend myself.

RoadkingLarry
November 29, 2007, 10:34 PM
Exit, Stage left. Now.

Yesit'sloaded
November 29, 2007, 11:39 PM
I'd either leave or drop and crawl and let the gangbangers kill each other. That is terrible about the bystander.

Tanzer
November 30, 2007, 08:31 AM
What would you do.
If I were a mod, I'd close the thread. It belongs on one of the mall ninja forums. Any competent permit holder is going to get the h*ll out, and this just invites the few SWAT wannabies to chime in with their "I'm a hero, so i'd...." blather.

markj
November 30, 2007, 04:13 PM
Many years ago a Dallas running back was at a mall signing footballs. We was in line on the lower level. A gunfight erupted second floor. Got my wife and kid the heck out of there to safety. Doing anything eles is silly and will get you or yours hurt maybe killed.

LEo have training for these situations, civies do not. Let it to the pros and keep yourself and loved ones safe. Now if he directly confronted me I would unload my new flame thrower at him, then some sterno and a match....it is cold here so it would help warm us up.

stephen426
November 30, 2007, 06:38 PM
I have a business in a popular mall. Post 9/11, there were concerns that terrorists would go for soft targets such as malls. The most important thing is to properly assess the situation. If it is indeed a terrorist action or a mad man on a spree, I think the only responsible thing to do is take action. Of course you should get any family members to safety first and then gain a good place of cover. Rushing into a situation is probably the dumbest thing to do unless the action is directed against you. In that case, maybe quick action is the only thing that will save your hide.

smithrob75
November 30, 2007, 10:07 PM
He was on the news tonight, said that he was protecting himself because some guy owed him $150,000. Seems kinda fishy.. That's a crazy lookin' dude !!

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5090184&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1