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View Full Version : What is the most jam-proof,reliable semi-auto?


daddySEAL
October 25, 2007, 10:56 AM
I know Glocks have the reputation of being incredably reliable, No
Matter what type, make or grain of ammo you use.

Others may be the same, and but I know that many "individual pistols" of most makers would work flawlessly for that individual weapon, but not all the ones manufactured by that maker might necessarily have that "luck" or reputation for the breed (and make the same gun and/or model that is ammo sensitive and jams now and then for that certain buyers now and then).

And is depended on thousands of rounds of multiple ammo makes and grains having been pumped through to give an answer. (Not just users having tried only a couple hundred rounds of similar types)

Would you guys agree?
And if so, which other makes of pistols, if any, are known for being non-jamming, please?

I'm looking for as many 1st hand user responces as I can get to try to get a concensus.

thanks

shield20
October 25, 2007, 11:08 AM
I liked my Beretta 92F as Ultra-reliable.

My HK P2000 has been the same - for far less rounds though, as has my Walther P99. (A lot less rounds through them as yet)

My Colt 1911s (1 Officer's, 1 Commander) were not reliable enough, nor was my Kimber. My Smith has been though.

fourrobert13
October 25, 2007, 11:33 AM
Glocks

Sigs

HK's

:D

GalilARM
October 25, 2007, 11:36 AM
HK USP from personal experience and from others who have owned them

jhgreasemonkey
October 25, 2007, 11:37 AM
My hk usp never jammed.

longeyes
October 25, 2007, 11:41 AM
Glock, SIG, HK, and Beretta are usually cited as the most reliable, but I can only go from my experience with my own stable of sidearms. Of the pistols I own--comprised of Glocks, 1911s, and Maks mostly--only two have never experienced a malfunction: a Glock 30 and a Glock 17. Draw your own conclusions.

werewolf
October 25, 2007, 11:45 AM
I've seen Glock 9's jam plenty of times, mostly with reloads, though. My Glock 33 has - knock on wood! - never jammed.

The Tourist
October 25, 2007, 11:51 AM
I enjoy these debates. Not just because they are fun on rebuttal, but most times the real answer is not one that people expect.

For example, I believe that Glocks would be at the top of my list, despite the fact I don't much like the pistol. As for "stoppage proof," obviously it is not by a long shot. Lead or lino bullets are a fact of life, and Glocks are picky in that regard. If they get excessively dirty, you might even risk the "kaboom" syndrome, which is another debate I'm not sure I believe in.

Also, 1911's would also be at the top of my list. However, all of mine are either custom Colts or Enhanced Colts. I haven't had a stoppage in 5 to 10 years. But then, many people have stoppages every day due to the popularity of the gun.

No, historically the winner is the 8.5MM GABBET-FAIRFAX 'MARS' pistol, commonly known as the Mars-Fairfax.

It never jammed, it worked in horrid conditions--so well in fact that the Bristish armed forces almost adopted the thing. It did have some truly spooky operating issues, it was expensive to machine and a handful to fire, but those were prototypes.

On record, it was powerful and reliable. Estimates by collectors doubt that even 100 were made, can be documented or still exist.

So if reliablity is at the top of your list, get a Glock 17 and shoot jacketed commercial ammunition.

Hawkerdrvr
October 25, 2007, 11:52 AM
I have shot 1000's of rounds through many models of Glocks, no probs. I will vote for the Taurus PT92. Mine has been flawless so far, about 1300 rounds with different ammo types and HP's. I guess only time will tell.
My second vote goes for the Smith autos, often overlooked and under-rated. Had good luck with a 5906 and a 910.
Ruger semis have a great rep for reliability, especially the P series. Although big and ugly, very reliable. My $300 P90 has been great so far.

ragwd
October 25, 2007, 11:58 AM
Only personal experience I have is a Walther p99 9mm, Kimber custom 2 .45 and a HK USP compact 45. Never had a problem with any except the Kimber magazine were crappy, a couple of Wilson Combat mags solved that. I think all the major makers make reliable pistols, but all will FTF on rare occasions, whether its a mag or cleanliness, or ammo issues. Some will say"I've put 10,000 rds and never a FTF". Great, but for every story I hear like that there is another willing to admit that they get a FTF every so often. My experience is
Kimber Custom 2, no ftf after new mags 3000+ rds
Walther p99 maybe 2 or 3 ftf in 2000+ rds (cheap ammo, never with the good stuff)
HK USP compact no ftf 700+ rds.

The Tourist
October 25, 2007, 12:11 PM
I believe the focus here should be on which design is less apt to have stoppages.

In my collection now that would be my 1911's and a P-229.

However, in my lifetime that title would go to a nickel-plated SW 59, which at the time was one of the most problematic firearms.

I never had a lick of problems with mine, no FTF, no FTE, no double feeds, no stovepipes, it wasn't picky on ammo or reloads and every magazine worked.

In good conscience, I don't think I recommend a 59 design to a guy seeking information. And to be fair, I had a satin nickel Colt Officers ACP that was such a piece of junk I returned it to the dealer.

And customizing also is subject for debate. My stainless Colt Enhanced has some of finest fit and finish I've seen.

D-Bak
October 25, 2007, 01:49 PM
my two most reliable have been the G19 and the Ruger P89. Zero malfunctions with either and both have several thousand rounds through them.

Magnum Wheel Man
October 25, 2007, 02:01 PM
of all my autos, that have been shot alot, I've never had a FTF or FTE from my (1) P-89 Ruger 9mm, or my (3) CZ-75's 9mm... I've shot a good mix of Federal American Eagle, assorted premium ammos, & cheap Chinese 9mmm in these guns over the years

all others have had at least one issue, or not been shot enough to pass judgement on...

dgludwig
October 25, 2007, 02:48 PM
My vote goes to the "Third Generation" series of Smith&Wesson semi-auto pistols. Shot many, never experienced a malfunction with any of them. Nothing's perfect though...

gvf
October 25, 2007, 03:33 PM
Glocks I believe would be most reliable according to available info.

markj
October 25, 2007, 04:00 PM
What??? it isnt the jennings bryco 9mm? :) durn, wont ever get rid of it....

44 AMP
October 25, 2007, 10:23 PM
No matter what gun it is, no semi auto has ever been 100% reliable for 100% of the owners. Neither has any revolver. There are conditions that will jam any and everything. revolvers are less prone to jam, but it can happen.

Semi autos are very dependant on their ammo. Some guns are very ammo sensative, others less so. Some need a "break in period" before they can be considered reliable.

For every one who can say "my XXX never jammed in 10,000,000 rounds", there is another guy out there who can (honestly) say "my XXX stovepipes once in a while", and another gun says " my XXX works flawless with ABC ammo, but not with XYZ".

Pick a quality gun, from a quality maker (that's the trick isn't it), and shoot it. If it works ok, shoot the xxxx out of it. Don't clean it, don't lube it. Just shoot it, until it starts having problems. Then clean and lube it, and do it again. As long as it goes about the same number of rounds each time, then you have an idea how reliable it will be with no care. Care for it, and it should do better.

Also don't judge the "reliability" of a gun with crappy ammo. The overwhelming majority of problems with semi autos are either the mags, or the ammo. Both are pretty easy to fix.

LUPUS
October 26, 2007, 04:20 AM
There is no need to waste time by repeating the words spread by 44 AMP.
Regards.

oldbillthundercheif
October 26, 2007, 04:32 AM
Makarov.

seeker_two
October 26, 2007, 05:10 AM
My father bought a Ruger P90 in the early 90's. He's still waiting for his FIRST jam..... :cool:

BanditSRT8
October 26, 2007, 05:59 AM
Seeker: He should play the lottery then because he has exceptional luck!

For me, it's Glock, P7 series from HK and the USP series from HK. Those are the only three that I've personally never experienced a problem with.

kristop64089
October 26, 2007, 06:03 AM
I bet it will be Hi-point:)

StuntManMike
October 26, 2007, 06:29 AM
CZ's, Para's, and Glocks have been the most reliable guns I have owned.

Suprisingly SIG's have given me the most trouble.

snail
October 26, 2007, 08:07 AM
GLOCK, GLOCK, GLOCK, GLOCK, GLOCK, GLOCK, GLOCK, GLOCK, GLOCK, GLOCK

I have 2950 rounds of Remington UMC, Speer gold dot, and reloads through mine. I have had one FTFeed. The round got stuck on the extractor, and wouldn't go into the chamber. The round was at a 30 degree angle to the chamber.
Second to the Glock, I had 983 reloads, WWB, and Remington UMC through my SIGMA .40 cal. It has NEVER had a problem, ever. Once you got past the 64lb trigger it was great!!!;)

Rinspeed
October 26, 2007, 09:43 AM
The Sig 226 has as good of a track record for reliability as any of them.

HisSoldier
October 26, 2007, 10:42 AM
My Kimber fails to feed when a tyro doesn't get the magazine all the way home.:) Seriously, any firearm will malfunction under certain conditions, right?
Something I don't read about is stoppage clearance procedures and practices. A squib load is dangerous for any handgun, how do we avoid it and what if? These questions are realistic and important in my opinion. It seems to me that if someone is carrying any auto it would be nice to run a few jammomatics and learn fast clearance techniques. I've pried .22 rimfire cases out with a pocketknife, I'm glad no one was shooting at me.
My Kimber has never jammed with normal use.:)

Dallas Jack
October 26, 2007, 12:02 PM
Eaa Witness/Tanfoglio. I've owned three Tanfoglios in the last 20 years and there has been no failures of any type with all three guns. As this gun is a copy most credit should go to the original CZ design with credit going to Tanfoglio for execution of design. YMMV
Dallas Jack

glockman19
October 26, 2007, 12:11 PM
I agree:

Glock
Sig
H&K
Beretta.

I've had no issues with all of them but Glock would take the top spot due to the amount of abuse it can take and still go Bang! when you pull the trigger.

seeker_two
October 26, 2007, 12:12 PM
Seeker: He should play the lottery then because he has exceptional luck!

Yeah....to bad he didn't pass it down to me (the luck or the P90... ;) )

I did get a P95 I once owned to jam once....it took 200 rounds of PMC. 40 rounds of Wolf steel-cased, dirty-dirty-burnt-powder ammo, a humid, misty day, and dropping it on the wet ground (unloaded, fortunately :o ) without cleaning to get my one and only jam. Had to sell it after that---can't abide an unreliable gun..... :p

TNFrank
October 26, 2007, 12:27 PM
ANY semi-auto is only as reliable as the mags and ammo that you feed it. Most semi-auto problems can be traced to either bad mags or bad/wrong ammo. That being said, most modern semis are pretty decent. As long as you stay with a name brand(Glock, Sig, Beretta, ect.) you should be ok.

rellascout
October 26, 2007, 12:28 PM
QR:

Why do people post threads like this. There is no right answer. :barf:

Everyone has their own preferences and their own experiences. Get off the interweb and get out and shoot more guns and answer the questions for yourself.

Fremmer
October 26, 2007, 12:59 PM
Who is the most beautiful woman in the world?!? :p

TNFrank
October 26, 2007, 01:05 PM
Phoebe Cates
http://images.dawgsports.com/images/admin/Phoebe_Cates_closeup.jpg

Jammer Six
October 26, 2007, 01:05 PM
SA milspec.

Glocks are susceptable to limpwristing, and mispecs aren't.

In the few seconds after getting shot, everyone's wrist is limp, no exceptions.

At that point, I hope my opponent has a Glock.

I can make any Glock jam by limpwristing it.

Good luck!

Fremmer
October 26, 2007, 01:08 PM
Actually, the answer to the question about the most reliable semi is simple: it is the semi that I just happen to own. I'll sell it to you for $10,000.00; that's a fair price, because after all, it is the most reliable semi.......:D

akr
October 26, 2007, 01:43 PM
I just wish I could afford to shoot any of mine enough to know which one is the most reliable. They say at least 500 rds (with no malfunctions) before you can count on it. I would need to buy and fire 5,000 rds just to see which one I should load up for self-defense. lol :eek: :barf: :confused:

seeker_two
October 26, 2007, 02:55 PM
Who is the most beautiful woman in the world?!? :p

My wife.....and not just because she sometimes reads this board, too..... :cool:


(....and it's not like I"m gonna wake up to Phoebe Cates in my bedroom anytime soon, either.... :o )

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Profiles/20061007/244.cates.phoebe.100606.jpg

Jonesy1985
October 26, 2007, 04:10 PM
Beretta 92FS. it has only jammed once but that was my fault from re-loadeing

IdahoG36
October 26, 2007, 05:07 PM
Nobody gave this answer yet so here it is- The MOST reliable pistol on the planet, hands down!
http://www.eastcoastfirearms.com/images/content/8072sale.JPG

Wrangler5
October 26, 2007, 06:43 PM
+1 for the Makarov.

nutty ned
October 26, 2007, 07:33 PM
Baby Eagle & pt-101-11

Officer's Match
October 26, 2007, 07:51 PM
Both my 23 and my PT92 are perfect 100% so far...hard to improve on that.:cool:

Officer's Match
October 26, 2007, 08:32 PM
...as for the other thing, I'll go with Mrs. Match (and yes her dog Baron is very protective).
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/sly250r/IMG_0768.jpg

Hallucinator
October 26, 2007, 08:35 PM
I own both Sigs and Glocks, and I find them equally dependable. They always go bang when you pull the trigger.

You'd have to not clean one for a year to have a problem.

Hallucinator
October 26, 2007, 08:36 PM
Match: Great looking dog, fine looking woman. Woof.

Officer's Match
October 26, 2007, 08:38 PM
Thanks. One of the two is pretty well behaved.;)

Hallucinator
October 26, 2007, 08:38 PM
Seeker 2: that is a BEAUTIFUL WOMAN.:)

rantingredneck
October 26, 2007, 08:38 PM
I've had one stoppage with my Ruger P89 (that I just sold). It had over 4K rounds and I had a wolf squib load once. Not a fault of the gun, but that is the one stoppage it had in 4K rounds. Not bad I'd say.

My other Rugers have never jammed, with the exception of my P345 not liking my original attempt at a light plinking reload (4.8gr Win231, 230 gr. Speer FMJ). Wasn't enough energy to cycle the slide. Upped the load by .3 gr and it runs fine. Never had a problem with factory ammo (I've probably got 5-700 rounds through it at the moment. Same with my P90 (bout 700-800 rounds and no failures.) Haven't shot my P97 that much but it's not failed yet (200 rounds or so).

BlondieStomp
October 26, 2007, 08:51 PM
glock, sig, and hk.

On the other hand, if you buy a quality new gun in 2007, it shouldn't have any malfunctions. If it does there's something to fix(mag, ammo, spring)

Average Joe
October 26, 2007, 08:57 PM
No auto is jam proof. If you want a no jam gun, get a revolver.

MJZZZ
October 26, 2007, 09:02 PM
Of all the guns I've owned or shot, the CZ-75 is the one gun I would carry with absolute confidence. Mike

IM_Lugger
October 26, 2007, 11:55 PM
Beretta 92FS -by design ;)

Rasputin
October 26, 2007, 11:57 PM
Glock's, Sig's, H&K's

And Some Of These Newer Guns Are Very Promising, Like The XD.

rgates
October 27, 2007, 12:18 AM
I vote for Seeker's wife and Mrs. Match.


Uh---I mean, MAKAROV.

curmudgeon1
October 27, 2007, 12:51 AM
Ruger P95, Kahr P9, Colt .45 Combat Commander. All very reliable. Colt's a little picky with SD hollow points, but works good with Rem. golden sabers and Win. rangers. Both the Ruger and the Kahr have barrel-integral feed ramps that run good with any hollow points. Hope this helps a little.

IdahoG36
October 27, 2007, 12:51 AM
If you want a no jam gun, get a revolver.
This is not a completely true statement. Sometimes the recoil is sufficent enough to unseat the other bullets, causing the cylinder to jam. This happens mostly with lightweight snubbies. Buffalo Bore warns against using their .357 ammo in them. This is from their site-
Our 357 mag. ammo adds more power than ever before to the 357 mag. This ammo is safe to shoot in ANY all steel 357 revolver—this includes J frames. This ammo is no harder on your gun than any other normal 357 ammo. Please don’t phone us and ask if this ammo is safe in your gun. It is, providing your gun is in safe condition for use with any normal 357 ammo.

We don’t recommend this ammo to be fired in super light alloy revolvers as bullets may jump crimp under recoil, but the ammo itself wont hurt these super light weight revolvers. These revolvers are simply so light that the recoil is severe enough to cause crimp jump.

StuntManMike
October 27, 2007, 05:29 AM
No auto is jam proof. If you want a no jam gun, get a revolver.

Not true. I had a S&W 28 that jammed quite often.

JMag
October 27, 2007, 11:21 AM
I don't keep them if they are not reliable and I don't like the idea of tinkering with semi-autos that don't run after a break-in period of at least two hundred rounds. That said, I have three nines that foot the bill for reliable:

1. H&K P7M8
2. Sig P226
3. Glock 26

TNFrank
October 27, 2007, 11:21 AM
Revolvers can "jam" up, ever had a ctg. case get under the extractor star, that's a real bugger to clear up.

rauchman
October 27, 2007, 12:37 PM
HK's, Sigs, Glocks, Berettas... they are all good to great. Surprisingly, the only pistos that have ever bobbled on me were a G22 (sold), G17 (needs a new extractor), and a Beretta Centurian 96 (sold). I have the utmost faith in HK's and Sigs.

curmudgeon1
October 27, 2007, 12:38 PM
My personal experience has been that the autos with barrel-integral feed ramps, after breakin, are reliable using any kind of ammo.(Ruger P95, Kahr P9). My Colt Commander is reliable with standard ball ommo, but a little picky with hollow points. It only likes Remington golden sabers and Winchester rangers due to the feed ramp being in the frame. I'm happy to oblige.:D

hot sauce
October 27, 2007, 09:38 PM
I have to say that my S&W 4506-1, 4566, and 5906 will feed an empty shell case with no problem. I also love my glock and beretta but neither will do that!

seeker_two
October 28, 2007, 08:03 AM
I vote for Seeker's wife and Mrs. Match.

I posted a pic of Phoebe Cates.....you should see my WIFE.... :D

WESHOOT2
October 28, 2007, 08:43 AM
IMO (because that's all this will bring) is the Ruger P90.

'Some' suggest the Beretta 92.


ps it ain't Glock

Jammer Six
October 28, 2007, 11:06 AM
Tell Brandy that Jammer said she's a beautiful woman!

seeker_two
October 28, 2007, 03:10 PM
J6: Brandy says "Thanks. You're sweet." ;)

I should warn you.....her hubby is the armed & jealous type.... :mad:













j/k....Thanks. :D

daddySEAL
October 30, 2007, 08:15 AM
Guys,
I realize that Any machine could possible experience an anomaly and have and jam. I just titled my initial post subject with the words "jam-proof" to get a consensus of which did it realively Infrequently (rarely)after firing many hundreds of times....that you'd have No doubt trusting your life with them in a self defence critical situation.

If we have't exhausted all the candidates out there yet....please keep your suggestions as CHL users, please!?

Sturmgewehre
October 30, 2007, 10:26 AM
I liked my Beretta 92F as Ultra-reliable.

Beretta Model 92:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/th_MOV00686.jpg (http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/?action=view&current=MOV00686.flv)

Glock Model 17:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/th_MOV00684.jpg (http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/?action=view&current=MOV00684.flv)

I love the Beretta, but ultra-reliable it's not. That being said, I couldn't resist buying another M9 this weekend. :p

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/M9_2.jpg

daddySEAL
October 31, 2007, 08:17 AM
A similar Glock video

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrZ0kxhDA3Y

2Seventy
October 31, 2007, 05:03 PM
I'll take a Glock. Most trouble-free gun I've ever owned in tens of thousands of rounds down range.

2Seventy

Jammer Six
October 31, 2007, 05:20 PM
I can make any Glock jam by limp wristing it.

That's why I own 1911's. The big, steel frame soaks up recoil.

Elliot
October 31, 2007, 05:47 PM
I have owned a Sig220, Taurus PT92, 2 Colt Combat Commanders, a Springfeild Armory, a Ruger, 3Glocks and a Browning Hi-power.
Of all the weapons mentioned, the Taurus and the Glocks were the most reliable.

2Seventy
October 31, 2007, 07:30 PM
I don't own a 1911---maybe someday. I have shot a few and like the trigger feel and the slimness of the gun.

I once asked a guy who trains many people in the Pacific NW(20+ yrs.) what was the gun used by his students in his training classes that was the most suceptable to malfunctions and he told me 1911s with all sorts of malfunctions. The most trouble-free he noted by far were Glocks. Does this mean that all 1911s are unreliable? No. Just good food for thought when your choosing a gun that you may need to save your life.

I've heard a lot about limpwristing a Glock and no doubt some have had a problem with it. I've purposefully tried to get this to occur with several models I own and have never been able to get it to occur. I've held the gun so lightly that I thought it would jump out of my hand when I shot it but it still cycled.

My opinion:
Try a number of pistols and settle on the one you shoot acceptably well and most importantly, if it's to be used as a defensive handgun, that it is 100% reliable for you with your defense ammo.

good luck,
2Seventy

Jammer Six
October 31, 2007, 07:39 PM
Who was he? (I might know him.) :)

When I came back to guns, I wanted a Glock. I had been away twenty years, surely there had to have been improvements, and you can sneak Glocks through metal detectors. I set out to buy a Glock. I thought they were cool, and besides, the 1911 was old technology. Not to mention that Glocks are black, which improves how deadly they are by 8% at night.

The 1911's I see jam in the leagues and in the classrooms fall into one of three categories: smaller than milspec, tighter than milspec, (Les Baers, Wilsons in particular, actually ADVERTISE that they're tighter than bankvaults. Go figure...) or unqualified fiddling has happened.

The milspecs run and run and run until something breaks. The Colts, and especially the Springers.

2Seventy
October 31, 2007, 08:20 PM
Who was he? (I might know him.)



Marty Hayes from the Firearms Academy of Seattle. In my previous post I may have been wrong in the years I stated Marty has been teaching. I think he taught several years in the Seattle area before opening FAS in Onalaska. I'd say Marty has taught 17+ years for sure, perhaps over 20 but I'm not sure of that. I was think he started in the mid 1980s?

I'm not a 1911 guy but have attended a fair number of classes at FAS and have witnessed many failures, primarily with 1911s. In the past few years this does appear to be less frequent and the number of 1911s by those in attendance appears to be increasing. Not being a 1911 person I can't tell you what brands or models most were shooting or whether they were Mil spec. or not.

Ironically, Marty has been shooting an S-W 1911 for the last couple of years or so. For the majority of the classes that I attended over the years where Marty was the primary instructor he shot and carried a G22 for all his training. Whether he now feels differently then he did in the past about the most malfuction prone gun used in FAS classes I don't know but will ask him the next time I see him.

Again, I don't want to start a 1911/Glock war here. Glocks have worked very well for me and I consider them a very good utilitarian tool for self defense. Find what works best for you and use it, with the confidence that if it's called into play to save your life its function is the last thing you want to consider.

2Seventy

turbojohn
October 31, 2007, 09:55 PM
Big part of jams is limp-wrist shooting. Once I conquered that...stiff wrist and tight grip...i.e., not letting a limp wrist/forearm ride back with the recoil, then no more problems with my PPK and PPKs. Same thing with my Seecamp .32 once grip/wrist secured. Had problems. regardless, with my .380 Seecamp until I installed a small finger extension to better secure a more solid grip.

gopher0
October 31, 2007, 10:11 PM
I would and do bet my life on the
BERSA T-380

Jammer Six
October 31, 2007, 11:23 PM
I can hold either milspec with one finger and a thumb, pull the trigger, and it will function. Limp wrists only affect some guns.

And oh, Turbo?

Everyone's wrist is limp in the five seconds after they've been shot. No exceptions, and none of your training will matter.

Sturmgewehre
October 31, 2007, 11:33 PM
Big part of jams is limp-wrist shooting. Once I conquered that...stiff wrist and tight grip...i.e., not letting a limp wrist/forearm ride back with the recoil, then no more problems with my PPK and PPKs. Same thing with my Seecamp .32 once grip/wrist secured. Had problems. regardless, with my .380 Seecamp until I installed a small finger extension to better secure a more solid grip.
That's some funny stuff. "Limp wrist shooting" eh? I don't own a gun that I can't shoot like this:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/limp_wrist.jpg

If holding it with two fingers and a thumb then firing it causes a jam, it's worthless to me. Fortunately my HK's, Sig's, XD's, 1911's, Glocks all pass this test with flying colors. If your gun can't be fired "limp wrist", you need to find a new gun. God forbid you get in a gun fight, get wounded and your gun fails to cycle because you have a weak grip.

The whole "my gun failed to cycle because I held it wrong" arguement is the worst ever.

Rasputin
October 31, 2007, 11:51 PM
I wonder if the limp wrist problem would be fixed by a lighter recoil spring??

Sturmgewehre
October 31, 2007, 11:53 PM
The whole "limp wrist" thing should not even exist. If your gun FTF because of your grip, you need a new handgun.

Rasputin
November 1, 2007, 12:05 AM
nah i have a G17.. i was just pondering.

Nice Sig Is That Yours?

ESI Agent
November 1, 2007, 12:48 AM
Of the firearms that I have put thousands of rounds thru and based on my experience and being totally objective:
1.Ruger P95: After 19,600 rounds I had my first stoppage which was a brekeage: The cameblock broke. Ruger fixed it and put a new berral in it: Cost of repair: 0 "Free"
2. Ruger P89 based on the five or more thousands of rounds that have gone thru IM still waiting for a stoppage.
3. Glock 17: This weapon has thousands of rounds thru it but has also had more stoppagges than I can count. It just seems to be more choosie as to what it feeds/extracks. Great gun but it is what it is.

The Body Bagger
November 1, 2007, 01:00 AM
Glock 17's and Beretta 92FS.

lear jet 45
November 30, 2007, 12:36 AM
Glock

dchi
November 30, 2007, 03:02 AM
The louisville Ky police department has used 3rd gen smith autos, glocks and sigs as main line issued service sidearms in the last 20 years. All have been reilable but the glocks have been slighty more reliable in service. Still they occationally fail, like when some one spills coke on it and doesn't clean it for 6 months. The sugary caramel gummed up the striker. And some times they just jam for no reason at all but it takes 1-2k rounds to see it happen.

BanditSRT8
November 30, 2007, 03:23 AM
If holding it with two fingers and a thumb then firing it causes a jam, it's worthless to me. Fortunately my HK's, Sig's, XD's, 1911's, Glocks all pass this test with flying colors. If your gun can't be fired "limp wrist", you need to find a new gun. God forbid you get in a gun fight, get wounded and your gun fails to cycle because you have a weak grip.

The whole "my gun failed to cycle because I held it wrong" arguement is the worst ever.

Can you explain why you have that rule? What practical situation can you imagine where your pistol will be required to shoot in such an instance?


Limp-wristing is a valid issue for some folks, pure and simple. Without a solid platform for the rearward moving slide to stop against to solidly begin it's forward return it can lose momentum and improperly cycle. How can you say you've never encountered this yourself or witness this happening with others?

AFshooter
November 30, 2007, 08:28 AM
I have no problem with everyone that says GLOCK.
I won't buy one because of ergonomics. It seems that how the gun would feel in the shooters hand was an afterthought for Mr. Glock.

Right now for me it would be CZ.

Funny. Of the few glocks I have shot, I experienced malfunctions with all of them.

Makarovs are great too. That "try to make a Makarov jam" thread is somewhere around here.

ShootingNut
November 30, 2007, 08:34 AM
Certainly one to consider in my opinion. Have a MP40 full size, runs through
the 15 rounds mag after mag with no snags. Great gun for me!;)

Jammer Six
November 30, 2007, 12:14 PM
Bandit, the reason I have such a rule is because a weapon needs to be able to shoot "limp wristed".

Because EVERYONE'S wrist is limp in the five seconds after you've been shot.

No exceptions.

It's merely an easy way of simulating a limp wrist.

dgludwig
November 30, 2007, 12:34 PM
BanditSRT8: Sturmgewehre can speak for himself, of course, but what I think he means is that in a gun fight/self-defense scenario one cannot be certain that the hand holding the gun will always be in a state of rigidity. Draws from leather/pocket under stress with no time to spare, wounds causing the shooting hand to be partially disabled and/or being forced to use the "weak" hand can result in an unavoidable "limp-wrist" grip. Pistols that won't function when grasped in a less than strong, solid hold are not suitable for self-defense in my opinion.

I also agree with Sturmgewehre's belief that the "limp-wrist" phenomena is an excuse used way too many times to defend pistol failures to function. Before counting on a pistol to defend my or my loved ones' life, I always range test same with various weak-hand holds to try and induce a FTE. If the pistol jams under these conditions, it either gets fixed, replaced or relegated to target duty.

The pistols that I've used that are not "limp wrist" sensitive include Third Generation Smiths, the SIG 220 and my HK USP 40. Of course, one can always carry a revolver...:)

softmentor
November 30, 2007, 02:31 PM
+1 for HK USP
I have 4 .45 and one .40. All work flawlessly.
Of the many thousands of rounds I have fired, only 2 failures of any sort. Both were caused by one mag that I have. That one mag I have stack funny sometimes, will only take 9 instead of 10 rounds. That is the only time I've had any problem at all. As long as I unload that mag and reload it with 10, it works perfectly.

FirstFreedom
November 30, 2007, 03:17 PM
No matter what gun it is, no semi auto has ever been 100% reliable for 100% of the owners. Neither has any revolver. There are conditions that will jam any and everything. revolvers are less prone to jam, but it can happen.

Semi autos are very dependant on their ammo. Some guns are very ammo sensative, others less so. Some need a "break in period" before they can be considered reliable.

For every one who can say "my XXX never jammed in 10,000,000 rounds", there is another guy out there who can (honestly) say "my XXX stovepipes once in a while", and another gun says " my XXX works flawless with ABC ammo, but not with XYZ".

Pick a quality gun, from a quality maker (that's the trick isn't it), and shoot it. If it works ok, shoot the xxxx out of it. Don't clean it, don't lube it. Just shoot it, until it starts having problems. Then clean and lube it, and do it again. As long as it goes about the same number of rounds each time, then you have an idea how reliable it will be with no care. Care for it, and it should do better.

Also don't judge the "reliability" of a gun with crappy ammo. The overwhelming majority of problems with semi autos are either the mags, or the ammo. Both are pretty easy to fix.

Hear, hear! 44 Amp has spoken. So let it be written; so let it be done.

I've heard on more than one occasion by seemingly reliable sources that although nothing is 100%, a Sig P220 in .45 acp is about as close to perfectly reliable as one is gonna get. Don't know if that's true, but that's the allegation anyhow.

9mms as a whole tend to be quite reliable due to the tapered case. Yet another reason to run with 9mm.

Scorch
November 30, 2007, 04:28 PM
I kinda agree that SIGs are very reliable. I have never had any issues with mine. I think in 12 years, it had 1 FTF, and that was when it was brand new. My Colt Combat Commander is also pretty darn good. It feeds anything I put in it. I can't remember the last time I had a FTF with it.

But some of the more reliable pistols I have owned: Colt 1911, SIG P226, Browning HP, P-35 (they are not the same, no matter what you have heard), P-38 (single worst trigger I have felt in a pistol), P-08 Luger (worst magazines to load, hands down, but always feed).

I can't think of too many others I would consider as a carry pistol right off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others, though.

If the gun won't fire with a neutral grip (limp wrist) get rid of it, because there will be a time you don't have a firm grip on the pistol but you still want it to go BANG!

Edward Nigma
November 30, 2007, 04:54 PM
I have never experienced a jam in these models:

Browning Hi Power
Beretta 92FS
Any Glock, Sig, or HK

CZ75
CZ P-01

GroovedG19
December 1, 2007, 12:38 AM
Most of mine have been flawless in function:Glock model 17, Sig Sauer P229, HK USP 45, Beretta 8000F Cougar, Sig P239.

Widder
December 1, 2007, 01:38 AM
BHP clone, Arcus 94.

Officer's Match
December 1, 2007, 01:40 AM
Thompson Contender.





:D

Warlokke
December 5, 2007, 04:35 PM
HK USP/USPc...I own one of each (bought them years ago), shoot them a lot and often, and no FTFs for any reason regardless of ammo or conditions...or even if I have cleaned them recently :o One is my CCW and I bet my life on it every day.

akr
December 5, 2007, 04:51 PM
CZ 75B's and XD's.

Hard Ball
December 5, 2007, 06:58 PM
Nothing is better than a SIG P210.

Gene1957
December 5, 2007, 07:43 PM
Well, Sigs are great guns, but you cannot outshoot any of my CZs. I am talking even down to an inch, make the hole bigger and bigger and bigger, and then stop at 1 inch. Plus, I can buy 2 CZs to your 1 wonderful Sig. Sigs are great, but not for those prices.

Just my .02,

Gene;)

akr
December 5, 2007, 08:14 PM
Nothing like a CZ 75B 9mm. I bought two (nkl) & SS), and now I'm thinking of getting a CZ75B in .40 (nkl).

Glockeroo
December 5, 2007, 11:05 PM
All of my Glocks have been flawless. However, I've heard others are reliable as well.

Dallas13
December 5, 2007, 11:12 PM
Never had any jams with SIGs, HKs or Glocks. :)

gc70
December 5, 2007, 11:50 PM
Strictly from a design perspective, the open-slide Beretta models should be pretty jam-proof. The open slides do not present much to prevent cases from being ejected and the magazines present new rounds to be fed nearly straight into the barrels.

P97
December 6, 2007, 08:22 PM
My Ruger P90DC has never failed in any way. You can't get any better than that.

1SOW
December 6, 2007, 10:29 PM
Bad ammunition will jam anything that shoots, but SIG 220 thru 239 will perform as good or better than most if not all
My CZ 75B also seems to eat anything I feed it..
Has anyone "personally seen, touched, or shot" the new ZIGANA import 9mm or 45????

TNT
December 7, 2007, 12:48 AM
Personally speaking I have a Ruger P89 that has never EVER malfinctioned owned it since 1990 ans still going. My dad on the other hand has a old Browning High Power and it has never failed as of yet either. Ruger gets my vote my SW5906 had performed flawless although I have only had it for two years. IMO Ruger would get my vote

dajowi
December 7, 2007, 01:03 AM
For crying out loud, here we go again. The simple answer is all of them and none of them. Someone will have a Hi-Point or a Glock or a Colt or a Wilson that they swear has never malfunctioned. I've got a .25 caliber Raven that was purchased from a gas station on August 1, 1986 and I paid $39.95. It's had countless number of rounds through it without one single problem. I doubt anyone would consider the Raven a quality handgun. So I'd have to say my Raven .25. :D:D:D:D

McGlockster
December 9, 2007, 04:44 PM
I have owned and carried Glock models 17, 19, 21, 21SF, 37 and 38, as well as CZ 83, CZ 75, and a Sig P226. The only FTF/FTE's I encountered were in the in the CZ83 while using some ammo of questionable origin, and one FTF in my Glock 21SF which was caused by a reloaded round that was loaded too lightly to cycle effectively. Personally, I'm sold on Glocks, but many people are getting great results from Sigs, H&K, XD's, CZ's and others.