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View Full Version : AuctionArms.com - Protecting Sellers at Buyers Expense


tarkio
October 8, 2007, 01:34 AM
I recently had a bad experience purchasing a rimfire rifle via AuctionArms. I spent some time trying to work it out and I got nowhere. I'ver listed the details below.

I purchased a "NEW" rifle on AuctionArms.com from seller SKINNER5553.

When the rifle arrived it was filthy. When I contacted the seller, their response was, "Well, it was new when we bought it 7 years ago and it has been in a cabinet since then". They could not understand that the condition of the rifle 7 years ago was of no import to me. The only thing important to me is the condition when it arrived.

I sent them pics and explained that I felt this was a gross misrepresentation of the item. The action and bolt were filthy and the magazine showed more wear than the mag on the exact same model rifle I have owned for over 2 years.

I simply asked that they refund my payment, and the shipping and handling both ways, They declined and insisted I pay all S&H. They relented a short while later and stated they would refund S&H 1 way only.

So because I believed them and their description, which was incorrect, I am going to be out $35 plus my transfer fee. When I brought this to their attention, they refused to cover the expense and went crying to the operator of the website AuctionArms.com complaining about how unreasonable I was and how gosh darn it, the rifle was new when they bought it 7 years ago.

The operator of AuctionArms, ultimately told skinner5553 that they would remove any negative feedback if I left it.

I wil try to attach a pic of 4 Q-tips that I wiped the action with that were dry, no solvent, nothing so that you can see how filthy this "NEW" rifle was.

Well I did leave negative feedback and we shall see if it gets removed.

You can look for yourself to see if AuctionArms truly is more concerned with protecting their sellers reputation than the buyers at their site.

I have all the emails describing the event and all our communications if anyone doubts this.

Hopefully you guys can avoid the problem I had there.

Best of luck.

Wildalaska
October 8, 2007, 01:26 PM
Whoa whoa wee whoa sailor, Im a seller on auction arms and I can assure you that EVERYBODY gets treated the same there.

You had every right to return your purchase for a three day period under their rules FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER. You are not entitled to S&H both ways. You are not entitled to transfer fees, as you should have inspected the weapon at the premises of your FFL holder before taking it home. If it was so dirty, then you should have refused to take it.

I can assure EVERY MEMBER of the TFL community that buyers and sellers are treated equally on Auction Arms, which is more than can be said for the competition.

WildnofavoritesthereAlaska ™

hoytinak
October 8, 2007, 03:05 PM
I've bought off of auctionarms, gunbroker and many other dealers online. If an item gets to your FFL in any condition not described, do not take control of the item and your FFL will send it back, seems pretty simple to me.

BlkHawk73
October 8, 2007, 07:06 PM
You had every right to return your purchase for a three day period under their rules FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER. You are not entitled to S&H both ways. You are not entitled to transfer fees, as you should have inspected the weapon at the premises of your FFL holder before taking it home. If it was so dirty, then you should have refused to take it.


I gotta agree with this. S&H is customarily not a thing taken up by the seller in these types of transactions. Also the biggest thing is that the firearm was NOT inspected at the transfer dealer prior to making out the 4473 form. That's NOT the seller's fault. Always inspect any firearm prior to filling out the forms. That should be a given.
Looking at a bunch of this seller's auctions, they all clearly state:
"RETURN POLICY: All firearms come with a 3 day (M-F) no-fire inspection/return privilege. Inspection period begins at the time of delivery to your dealer. It is your responsibility to inspect the firearm in this time frame. In case of a return, buyer pays for all shipping and insurance so please ask questions BEFORE you bid."

Wildalaska
October 8, 2007, 07:27 PM
ALL auctions at AA have a three day inspection. That is their policy. You can return simply becasue SWMBO caught ya and is ******, no questions asked.

WilitsimportanttoscreenbiddersAlaska TM

tarkio
October 10, 2007, 04:07 PM
You are absolutely correct that I had 3 days. Without going into great detail, when the firearm finally arrived I was out of town. My FFL called me immediately RE condition of the firearm and I contacted seller about it. But I was unable to pick up the rifle for another week.

I agree that the seller has no responsibility in covering S&H both ways in a normal situation. I even told them that if this were a matter of disagreeing on a 65% condition vs. 80%, then yes I would have to stand S&H. This was an instance where a firearm was described as new however did not resemble a new firearm in any way shape or form.

I took the firearm from my FFL because if I sent it back asap, then I definitely am out S&H both ways as well as insurance for a blatant misrepresented firearm. I wanted to give the seller a chance to do the right thing as a businessman. I honestly thought that he would do the right thing and simply step up and cover the S&H. I contacted the seller once I had possession of the rifle. I explained that there is no way this is "NEW" based on the wear of the mag and the filth in the action and on the bolt. I got an argumentative seller who could do no more than say, well, it was new when I bought it 7 years ago. No explanation on the filth or wear. They instantly went the route of, "Well, maybe you got the wrong rifle. Maybe your FFL mixed up rifles." A rather weak stretch to say the least.

To follow on your suggestion. If I were to have shipped the rifle back, I would have been out ~$70 because of their misrepresentation and the seller? Well, they would have been out a few dollars in fees to AA.com and nothing more. Doesn't sit well with me.

I never demanded or asked for my FFL fees to be returned. I am not certain where you got that idea. Perhaps I did not do a very good job explaining myself earlier.

With regard to AuctionArms. I received a cc of an email from AA.com in response to the seller's email in which the seller misrepresented my actions. I immediately responded to AA.com forwarding all communications between the seller and myself and including photos and asked for them to contact me. I emailed a second time shortly thereafter again asking for AA.com to communicate with me.

The next communications I reveived was another cc of an email where AA.com was responding to another email from the seller.

So, I email AA.com 3 times. I get no direct response.

The seller emails twice that I know of and AA.com responds directly to them.

In the seller's second email, they claim that I am demanding my FFL fees in addition to the S&H. This was a blatant lie as I never demanded my FFL fees. Even though AA.com had all the emails where I specifically said I do not want my FFL fees, they accepted the sellers' email as the gospel and told the seller that if I posted negative feedback it would be erased.

Now I ask you, how is that looking out for the buyer? I never received a response until after the second email between AA.com and the seller. Then that was finally in response to my 4th email. What incentive does the seller have to do anything when AA.com says, not to worry, we'll make it all better if neg feedback is left?

AA.com finally responded to me and stated that they do not want to get in between seller and buyer RE condition etc. and it is no business of theirs. Yet, when the seller had contacted them RE condition etc. they gladly listened, were empathetic and took the seller's side and refused to communicate with me. I had told AA.com in the 1st email I sent that this was really an instance where it is up to the seller to decide what type of customer service they wanted to provide and had nothing to do with AA.com because this was out of their purview.

Prior to this interchange, I had planned to leave neutral feedback with a link to the pictures so potential buyers could see what the sellers define as new.

When all this came to light, I left feedback that stated the facts. Seller sold rifle as new. Arrived filthy and worn. Seller had no explanation, just, "it was new 7 years ago" I asked because of gross misrepresentation that the seller pay S&H both ways and they refused.

AA.com then deleted the feedback.

Again, I ask, how is this in any way an instance where AA.com is looking out for the buyer's (the one writing the check here) interest at all?

I have bought mainly and sold on eBay and GunBroker.com and had just started with AuctionArms.

Based on my experience, I still believe that AA.com is more interested in caring for sellers than buyers. Perhaps the sellers and the operators of AA.com are friends? I have no way of knowing. But I do know that I have spent probably $20,000 on firearms in the last 2 years, much of that sight unseen via auctions or website listings, and I have never experienced anything like this before.

When it comes down to it, the rifle was a $200 firearm. No big deal. But I just can't get over the way both AA.com and skinner5553 handled this.

A large protion of my real business deals with selling livestock sight unseen and I would never dream of treating a customer in this fashion.

jmwyles
October 10, 2007, 04:23 PM
I have bought from there before with no problems. However, if you had problems write it off to experience and don't buy from there any longer. If you do much business on the internet you will eventually get someone who stretches the lnib description. :eek:

Wildalaska
October 10, 2007, 04:28 PM
Well I dont have a dog in this bun other than to note the AA is the ONLY auction venue where you can CALL and speak to a honcho and is the only net firearms joint where EVERYTHING is fair and above board.

I have 1044 positive feedbacks on there, generate a lot of dollars in fees for them and there are times I slam down the phone after screaming "if you are gonna do that, at least give me some vaseline" (Bob Lancaster, the Honcho in charge of keeping buyers ands sellers in line, is, I think an ex marine and one of the most honest, decent and honorable guys in the industry!!!!) ....no bias toward sellers there at all!!! Everbody gets treated fairly.

I am loathe to call folks meretricious, but something about your story, which makes some rather serious and actionable allegations, doesnt ring true. In sum, folks, I submit to you that AA is a place deserving of your trust, despite this thread.

WildmaybebobwillhoponandchimeinAlaska ™

Don H
October 10, 2007, 06:21 PM
Either you did or you did not comply with the 3-day inspection period. If you did not return it within the return period, you're SOL. Whether or not you were traveling and not available to return the rifle is immaterial.

BlkHawk73
October 11, 2007, 06:19 PM
Either you did or you did not comply with the 3-day inspection period. If you did not return it within the return period, you're SOL. Whether or not you were traveling and not available to return the rifle is immaterial.

Exactly! Regardless of when it arrives, it's 3 days - period! That isn't restructured becuase your out of town. Rules don't change just to suit an individual's needs. The rules are cearly stated. Can't deal with that - it's not the seller's fault at all!