View Full Version : Wolf Springs?
September 20, 2007, 12:40 AM
I have several Beretta 92f mags that I am going to put new springs in. I was thinking of using the Wolf springs instead of new factory ones. Is this a good idea? Are Wolf mag springs superior to factory ones? Any input is appreciated.
September 20, 2007, 07:33 AM
I have Wolf springs in all my SD guns. I have heard they are the best. You definetly can't go wrong with them.
September 20, 2007, 08:26 AM
Don't waste your money. The action of any semi-automatic is designed to work with ammunition meeting SAAMI specs. Within the SAAMI spec, certain pressures will be attained and this will affect the unlocking time, extraction and ejection speed, and the reloading from the magazine. When you change a spring, you playing with the reliability of the gun. If that magazine puts out too much tension, it'll slow down the unlocking time (caused by drag of the slide's feed rib against the top cartridge). It'll also slow down the feeding time because the slide must also overcome the spring to strip a cartridge from the magazine.
Unless your gun is for a specific purpose or ammo, don't change out the springs. You actually narrow the range of ammunition that your gun will be reliable with when you change that spring.
If you've got money to spend, buy more spare factory magazines instead and stay away from aftermarket stuff.
September 20, 2007, 04:56 PM
I never said this was a needed swap, but I can promise you that Wolf didn't get as popular as they are by having guns jamb with their springs. There are many myths out there about compressing springs for a lengrh of time and the spring "loosing it's memory" I fell for this myth years, and years ago and replaced brand new Glock mag springs. Sure it wasn't necessary but it definetly didn't make my Glock a "jam o matic." There are many reasons why somebody may need to replace their springs in their mags and as I said before you certainly can't go wrong with Wolf.
September 21, 2007, 11:40 AM
NCHornet: Sir; you done good with said advice. Springs that "Wolf" provides us are well documented with refinements.
Do I agree with "4V50 Gary": partially; give any tool heat cycles; banging and bumps; a level of stress appears.
Sitting around [confined springs] are under stress. Stress; at a manufacturers level; causes appeared failure. What is failure; cycle, strength, response time,
heat, weather, oil, dirt list goes on. The manufacturers tolerances are set to delay, give appearance, maintain a certain level of overkill taking in all said.
Knowing as they do; 'perception' becomes "fact" and then encourages the myth my stuff is the best.
What "Wolf" has done? Set tighter parameters [example not to specs.][18lb spring @.18thousandth]
t- .002 Consistency where as Manufactures can and do live with greater parameters. Will the "Wolf" spring wear or deteriorate? Without question. Yes
Are they closer to the actual "Spec Sheet"
My Point: I wouldn't hesitate to use "Wolf's" springs. I wouldn't hesitate to experiment with them either.
September 21, 2007, 12:17 PM
There is nothing wrong with Wolff springs, but I find it amusing that so many people think they know better than the gun manufacturer which springs to use!
BTW- properly designed and manufactured springs don't "wear out." Springs shouldn't get weaker.
September 21, 2007, 08:47 PM
Basic spring test. Take a used spring. Place it alongside a factory new spring. Same length? Good to go! That's what we were taught in armorer's school.
September 22, 2007, 05:29 PM
Springs do wear out. Wolff makes good springs. Semi-auto handguns aren't finely-tuned Swiss watches, where any variance will cause a problem. Matching spring weight to caliber/loads being used just makes sense, and lets you reinforce your h.s. physics that I'm sure we all made an "A" in. :p
The manufacturers don't necessarily match recoil springs for optimal performance for calibers/loads being used. Their priorities aren't the same as an intelligent, informed gun owner's might be. Uniformity and economy of manufacturing are important to gun manufacturers...not too important to me.
Wolff Springs' guidelinesfor choosing correct recoil spring weights makes sense to me.
September 23, 2007, 01:42 AM
I'll say again-properly made and designed springs don't wear out. If flexed often enough they may break. I have seen many 150 year old springs that worked fine. I have made thousands of springs.
Wolf does make good springs.
And I'm sure you all excelled in physics-
There is no need to change springs, except in very unusual circumstances. It's kinda like screwing with the suspension on a race car, from the spectator stands.
September 23, 2007, 03:32 AM
Just to comment on Wolff springs a little if I may.
I just had my firing pin spring on my Suhl replaced with a Wolff spring made for an Anschutz. The one I ordered was interchangeable with my Suhl spring.
I don't know about anything lasting for ever. All things can change over time. I know we as people sure do. It's not so much the spring breaking as the reason to replace it, but the spring getting weaker and causing inconsistant strikes on primer or rim, making ignition inconsistant.
I sure get a lot better strike from my firing pin now. It should help give me more consistant ignition I do believe.
September 23, 2007, 05:36 AM
Bill Deshivs: Sir; you answered you query; by changing the spring rate at a 'car' race. Having enjoyed "Motorcycle competition" changing, adjusting, adding,
creating bumb stop, multi incremental/mathematical; same as used in car racing; gives additional thinking opportunities.
Mathematical scheming is/isn't needed?
Sir; if this were cast in stone; why would the "race car/motorcycle/airplane/boat folks continue to try and find flexibility ratings for there passion.
Mass production; means what variables/variances are acceptable.
With concentrated production is the variances less? Many of the 'competition' regulators think so. I sir; agree
Thanks for making me think:)
September 23, 2007, 01:37 PM
Most shooters change out springs because they simply think it's the thing to do-not because it's necessary.
Most people have little idea how to assess what spring rates (other than factory) are proper for their guns. Notice I said, "From the spectator stands."
September 24, 2007, 05:39 AM
Bill DeShivs: Sir; I followed your LINK; wow; impressive work.:)
Sir; my thought, nor my observations are to be taken as an/any attack.
Sir; my thoughts are about my observations and explorations. Do I agree with most? Not important. What I find fascinating is the exploration.
Using any design; conceptual thought; we all grow. Sir; your thoughts of your mentor; outstanding; he took you to another level of thought; allowing your natural innate abilities/explorations to fester; Sir without men/women like these/you/me/them/those; a loss would/will occur.
Others in our lives have shared; without these; my life's curiosity would have taken a nose dive.
So; what is my point. Sir; we/each reserve the right to agree/disagree without each thinking the other is being put in his place. Any good argument; will have moments :eek: and with me Sir; it'll last :) gone now.:D
Sir; I don't play games; oneupmanship means nothing to me.
Have a good day::)
September 25, 2007, 01:24 PM
Seems to me that one doesn't have to be Einsteinian in order to realize that a 9mm Glock with the same slide weight as a .40 or .357Sig Glock shouldn't use the same recoil spring weight.
I've personally experimented with lots of different loads and calibers and don't just change springs on a whim. If your semi-auto is throwing brass into the next county, a stronger spring is in order. The reciprocal of that is also true. Can't imagine where the information orginated that springs don't take a "set" and don't wear out. All springs are not the same, of course. I'd be amazed to see a 150-yr-old semi-auto handgun mag spring that still works as well as it did when it was manufactured. ;)
I'd also opine that gunsmiths, regardless of their artistic talent, are generally not the kind of folks who spent much time sitting in a physics class. ;)
September 25, 2007, 02:07 PM
Glock doesn't use the same springs on different calibers.
You may very well be one who knows when to change a spring.
Properly made springs will "set" the first time they are flexed, but should not set further. Properly made springs "wear out" by getting more brittle until they break-not by getting weaker. Any physics course will tell you that.
I would be amazed to see a 150 year old semi-auto spring! Regardless, a spring is a spring.
As far as sitting in a physics class, no- but I do make quite a few springs and know a little bit about them. As far as being a gunsmith, I am a little more qualified than that.
Why don't you research it and give us the physical reason why a properly made and designed spring will get weaker?
September 26, 2007, 03:38 AM
September 26, 2007, 02:08 PM
Either he's still researching, or the cat has Mr.Kat's tongue!
September 26, 2007, 02:59 PM
Why do magazine springs get weaker over time? Are they not properly made and designed?
FWIW, Numrich does list the same part number for the recoil spring in Glocks in both 9mm and .40. I found the stock spring in my G24 inadequate.
September 26, 2007, 03:18 PM
"Properly made springs "wear out" by getting more brittle until they break-not by getting weaker. Any physics course will tell you that."
Physics rarely covers deformable bodies and metal properties.
As the metal gets brittle the spring rate is altered.
September 26, 2007, 07:34 PM
"As the metal gets brittle the spring rate is altered."
Correct. It gets harder to bend until metal fatigue causes it to crack.
If magazine springs get too short, yes-they are improperly designed or improperly made.
September 27, 2007, 03:27 PM
My late son (joe Bonar) and I always just ordered Wolfe mag springs fot the P-14s' to start with.
September 27, 2007, 03:47 PM
If it's not broken, don't replace it.
If you want to waste your money, you earned it.
October 6, 2007, 09:36 PM
As an auto mechanic I've replaced worn out springs on Fords and Chevys.......... What is different about gun springs that allows them to last forever?
October 6, 2007, 09:51 PM
Why do most Ford and Chevy springs NOT wear out?
October 8, 2007, 10:33 AM
" What is different about gun springs that allows them to last forever?"
They can last a long time, but I disagree with the forever.
Gun springs do operate in a more controlled environment than suspension springs.
Rocker springs tend to last pretty well and are probably more comparable.
They do break sometimes, but given the huge number in use it is probably a rather low rate.
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