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View Full Version : Question - slugs in a smooth bore again


FirstFreedom
August 25, 2007, 09:19 PM
Wait a sec..... if the "rifling" on the outside of foster-style slugs is not there to make the slugs spin, then why do people say use them in smoothbore guns, and use saboted slugs only in rifled barrels? How could the foster types be any more accurate than a saboted slug, if neither one are spinning in a smooth bore? Shouldn't they have the same accuracy level?

Bob F.
August 25, 2007, 09:40 PM
Poorly qualified, but as I understand (and nobody else has posted yet!) the sabots DO spin in the rifled barrel, thereby spinning the slug itself. The "un-saboted" just does down range like a bat out of, well, you understand. And' in fact, the saboted slug out of a rifled barrel is more accurate.

Where you're restricted to shotty's the ranges should be reasonably short, logically speaking, but hunting regs.... let's leave that one lie, too! Regardless of your rig and ammo, PATTERN THE DARNED THING!!!!! Or zero it as the case may be.

Stay safe, and have fun with that shotty!
Bob

FirstFreedom
August 25, 2007, 09:56 PM
I understand that with a rifled barrel, both will shoot better. I'm talking strictly here about *smoothbore* barrels - is the foster type more accurate than a saboted slug from a smoothbore, and if so, why/how? Thanks.

JohnKSa
August 26, 2007, 12:03 AM
How could the foster types be any more accurate than a saboted slug, if neither one are spinning in a smooth bore? Shouldn't they have the same accuracy level?I haven't done any testing with the two different types of slugs so I'm not sure how well this applies to them, but I can tell you that it's possible to make a projectile that's stable without being spun.

Projectiles with the center of mass well forward of the center of drag will be stable without being spun while long, thin projectiles with more mass rear of the center of drag will tend to tumble unless they are spun.

Even with a projectile designed to be stable without spin, you'll tend to get better accuracy with spin because of the gyroscopic effects and because the spin moves any irregularities on the projectile around so that they can't pull or push the projectile only to one side.

Dave McC
August 26, 2007, 08:36 PM
Forster, not Foster, slugs from smoothbores are not more accurate than Sabots from rifled barrels. Quite the contrary.

However, a little testing will often find a rifled slug that a given barrel "Likes".

We're looking for "Minute Of Deer" here. A slug gun that will keep them on a paper plate at 100 yards has lots utility for the mission of turning deer into venison in short range cover.

The "Rifling" is to stabilize the slug on the bore and swage down through any choke encountered.

crowbeaner
August 26, 2007, 08:40 PM
FF- the Foster slug was developed long before the EXPENSIVE saboted slugs, and is designed to shoot in any choked barrel. Some actually shoot better with some degree of restriction. The saboted loads are designed to be shot in a rifled barrel to make the sabot and slug spin, thereby increasing accuracy. This is not to say that Foster slugs can't be shot in rifled barrels, but the accuracy of the Foster slug generally won't be as good as the sabots. I shoot a smoothbore A5 and am in the process of trying the Lee Key Drive Foster shaped slug. Results have been interesting. Each of 3 guns has it's preference for different load combos, and each has turned in lousy and impressive groups so far. The accuracy champ is the Rem 1100 so far. It has turned in some very good groups at 75 yds., and actually snakeyed 2 shots at 100 (touching each other). All have cylinder smooth bores. The sabots are too expensive to do any research with for me. It sure would be nice to see a gunrag do some tests and publish the results in a variety of guns so those of us that have to operate within financial restraints have some data to consider before we shop. Hope this helps. Enjoy. CB.

jrothWA
August 27, 2007, 01:33 AM
any choke.
The smoothbore barrels are best using a long wight forward slug; e.g.: Brenneke, have the lead slug with a fiber / plastic wad to give a semi-aerodynamic form.
The Foster has the weigh ion the nose with the hollow skirt.

whereas the sabot engages the rifling and imparts the spin to stabalize the essentially uniform projectile.

See what the shotgun likes and consider equipping it with a scope to increase accuracy and start practicing NOW!!!

FirstFreedom
August 27, 2007, 08:43 AM
Forster, not Foster, slugs from smoothbores are not more accurate than Sabots from rifled barrels. Quite the contrary.

Dave, crowbeaner, and Jroth - sigh...

Did you read my question, as explained in post #1, and carefully RE-explained in post #3? None of your posts addressed what I was asking - once again, I'm NOT asking ANYTHING about comparing them through rifled barrels, or one rifled to one smoothbore. I'm comparing STRICTLY smoothbore to smoothbore.

Edit: Upon further inspection, perhaps my first post was not as clear as it could have been. So I do appreciate the responses and information in them, actually, even though they didn't really address the specific question. :)

JohnK, thanks, I appreciate it - you are the only one that even addressed the question asked - that makes sense and explains it.

And it may be forster technically, but nearly everyone says foster.

jrothWA
August 29, 2007, 09:18 PM
are meant to ride the inside barrel surface, and as soft lead will squeeze sideways passing thru the choke.

My M97 with a cut-down 20" barrel, and 1.5X scope consistently cloverleaf three slugs @100 yds, using Brenneke slugs.
my second slug gun is a M37 with DeerSlayer barrel and scope, this barrel is purposely made undersized allowing the slug to be tighter in the barrel.

A Brenneke slug with attached base wad that expands against the barrel from the gas pressure.

DPris
August 30, 2007, 05:05 PM
The Foster slug, "invented by Karl Foster in 1931...." :)
Denis

rem870hunter
November 13, 2007, 11:55 AM
i shot about 20 brennekes through my fully rifled remington barrel. after zeroing in at 50 yards. heading for 75 then 100 yards. a 2 inch group. i ran out of ammo. the inside had alot of lead and powder residue in it. i cleaned the hell out of it. went back with more ammo. it shot a 5 inch group:confused: i shot some at 75 and got a 6 inch group. at 100 they went 18 inches low. all shots were with the open rifle sights. i bought some win. super x bri sabots. at 10 bucks abox. really cheap and shot a 3 inch group at 75. without any sight adjustment.i went back for more they were 12 bucks a box. i recently put true glo sights on . at 100 i was have a little bit of trouble seeing the front blade. i shot a 2 inch group with the remington slugger at 50. using my smoothbore barrel. with the open sights. a 1 and 1/2 inch group at 50 with my scope on it. a 1.75-5x20 off the wall no name. that barrel did'nt like the brennekes. they shot a 6 inch group at 50. i tried wins. estate, and federal too. the winchester ranger 1 oz. low recoil came in as a close second with a 2 and a 1/2 inch group at 50 with open sights
my wingmaster 870 mag like the sluggers too. i shoot a 2 inch group at 50 with that. scope on that too. fixed 2.5x20 tasco i think. both shotguns have the b square bracket. not cantilever mounts. no need to buy another barrel for a scope mount. i look at it like this. should something happen to the scope. i can remove it and still hunt with slugs. with accurate sights.

famine
November 13, 2007, 01:17 PM
I might be wrong but I thought that the actual projectile for a sabot slug had a casing around it that would engage the rifling in a rifled barrel to impart spin to the projectile. After it leaves the barrel the casing and projectile separate. In a smooth barrel there wouldn't be enough spin to cause these to separate and the projectile tumbles through the air causing bad accuracy even in shotgun terms. (I think I read this somewhere discusing rifled chokes). I've never shot any sabots and I hunt in shotgun land, too expensive when a rifled slug will do the job at the normal ranges.

greyeyezz
November 13, 2007, 03:12 PM
My 870 smoothbore shoots Remington slugger's better (2"@50 yrds) with an IC tube than a rifled tube. Go figure.

jheitertusa
November 13, 2007, 05:00 PM
"Forster, not Foster, slugs from smoothbores are not more accurate than Sabots from rifled barrels. Quite the contrary."

Dave McC:

Not to be a jerk or anything, but it IS Foster not "Forster".

As stated above, they were named after Karl Foster, who invented them in 1931. Calling them "Forster" or "Forester" slugs seems to be a common error on this forum.

...and just to be a REAL jerk, a lot of people don't know that "sabot" is actually pronounced "Say-bo" with a silent T on the end. It is pronounced "sah-bot" by so many people that they look at you funny if you pronouce it right.... :rolleyes::)

rem870hunter
November 13, 2007, 10:16 PM
famine you are right. a sabot has a casing around the projectile. the projectile does not come into contact with the rifling at all with this. the foster type does. the brennekes say right on the box for smoothbore and rifled barrels. brenneke does make a sabot version of the k.o. it looks just like the regular slug but they made it slimmer just a tad and it still weighs 1 oz. i saw a 3" and a 2 and 3/4" 12 gauge type in dicks sporting goods. the shorter of the 2 was 8.99 a box. the projectile is surrounded by what looks to be a plain old shot cup wad. i shot a box of them recently did good at 25. but not at 50. as far as say-bo or sa-bot. i agree its say-bo. don't say the t. i get alot of sa-bot? when i say what kind of say-bo ammo do you have in stock? i was told by a gunsmith of 30+ years don't use the foster type in a rifled barrel. you will get better results using sabots.