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jckeffer
August 23, 2007, 04:39 PM
Through the help on the Firing Line I was able to identify my recently inherited rifle as a Spanish 1916 7mm x 57mm Mauser. This was confirmed by the prior owner. After cleaning and closely inspecting the rifle, I purchased some 7x57 rounds. I used a round to verify that it would fit (without firing). The round seems to fit the chamber well and the bullet should pass through the bore - a snug fit but one I expected. My problem is that the bolt/ejector does not grasp the shell casing. When the bolt is withdrawn the round simply falls back - it won't eject. I tried replacing the ejector (purchased one from Numrich Gun parts) and it made no difference. I've tried to locate a competent gunsmith in the King County area of Wa (Seattle area) to no avail. Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated.

Scorch
August 23, 2007, 05:03 PM
I do believe it's not the ejector that is causing you fits. You need a new bolt stop/ejector spring. It is a little two-legged beast that forms the outer part of the bolt stop, and the lighter weight leg fits inside to hold the ejector in the extended position. When the bolt is closed, the ejector sits inside the bolt stop itself. As the bolt is opened, when it reaches the rearward position, the spring forces the ejector to extend into the ejector slot in the bolt head. Without spring pressure, the ejector will not eject a spent shell.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.asp?chrProductSKU=4980&MC=

Price is $15.60.

Bill DeShivs
August 23, 2007, 05:48 PM
Or maybe the "extractor"???

Gbro
August 23, 2007, 06:47 PM
Looks to me like a chamber cast should be done.

The rim appearers not to fit the bolt face.
Please don't shoot it until its verified.
No insult intended to the previous owner, but their is no way i would bank on him for the correct information.

jckeffer
August 23, 2007, 09:28 PM
First, the term extractor is probably more accurate. When the bolt is opened and pulled to the rear it doesn't hold the cartridge tightly enough even to puul it out of the chamber - and I have tried two extractors. When I manually place the cartridge on the bolt face and inside the extractor it will barely hold - it seems loose to me (little experience with this gun). While the prior owner is certain that it is a 7x57 Mauser and the barrel is too small to be a .308 conversion, I would definitely like to get it checked before I fire any rounds through it.

Second, I haven't been able to locate the bolt stop spring to inspect/test it. The only spring that is evident is the spring that holds the latch that prevents the bolt from being removed. It seems strong. Can someone point me at the bolt stop spring location and procedures for replacing it? Given the cost it would be worth it just to try a new spring.

Third, I've been looking for a competent gunsmith in the Seattle, WA area for the last 3-4 weeks with absolutely no luck. Seems there isn't much interest in repairing or restoring old guns around here.

Any additional thoughts? As always I learn more each time I here - thanks!

Scorch
August 23, 2007, 10:47 PM
Where in King County?

44 AMP
August 23, 2007, 10:56 PM
And you can't find a smith in the Seattle area? Either things have changed alot, or you aren't looking in the right places. Maybe both.

I can't help you in the Seattle area, but Don Manning at Shooter Supply in Yakima could take care of it. So could I and a couple of guys I know who are not 'smiths for a living.

I can't really tell from the pictures, but the extractor "claw" should reach nearly to the bottom of the groove in the case, with the other side of the case tight up against the projection of the bolt face. The round should be held snugly, and should not fall off the bolt face if lifted.

Mauser rifles are intended to be loaded from the magazine. Rounds feed up from the magazine, under the claw of the extractor, on their way into the chamber.

Putting a round in the chamber and then closing the bolt on it forces the extractor to flex in order to snap over the case rim and into the extraction groove. Some Mausers have a clearance cut, and the tolerances to permit this. Some do not.

The Mauser extractor is spring steel, and can be bent/lose tension or even be broken as a result of being forced over a case rim, if the rifle doesn't have the clearance to allow it.

You said you tried a different extractor, so what you might have is a bolt face that has been "opened up" to hold a larger diameter case, something done for "magnum" conversions. Or the bolt face could just be very worn.

You definitely need to find a smith to do a headspace check and verify the chambering BEFORE you try to shoot it. I know there are people who can do this in Yakima, TriCities, and Spokane, and there used to be people like that in the Seattle area. I'm pretty sure Al Biesen has retired (and likely passed on), but he was a nationally recognised custom rifle builder, and he lived over in that area.

Go to the Washington Arms Collector show, they have one every month in Puyallup. Somebody there will certainly be able to help you find a smith to get your rifle checked by someone who knows what he is doing. I'll ask some folks I know if they know anybody in your area, but I won't be able to see them before next week.

Please don't shoot the rifle until you know for certain why it isn't working correctly. Be safe, not sorry. Good Luck.

Scorch
August 23, 2007, 11:12 PM
First off, it's a 1893 Mauser, not a 98.

Secondly, unless you like being verbally abused for not joining their club, even though you have paid your $7 admission fee, you are probably better off staying away from Washington Arms Collectors (WAC) gun shows. I went to one, and was first called a weasel because I did not want to pay for a membership right then and there, and then they told me I could not buy anything inside because I was not a member. That was after they had my $7 admission fee (who's the weasel??).

I am a Life Member of the NRA, spent 10 years in the US Marine Corps, and was actually considering a WAC membership until that little experience. Having some 20-something clad in black SWAT BDUs telling me I was a weasel because I would not decide right there and then to join the club was a bit much.

But I wasn't the only weasel there. Apparently the term "weasel" is club jargon for non-members. They kept announcing over the PA system that there were weasels in the parking lot trying to come in with guns to sell. Imagine that, taking guns to a gun show to sell them!

44 AMP
August 24, 2007, 01:32 AM
Somehow, unless I take specific pains to check, it comes out Mauser 98 alot of the time. Sorry. However it is still the basic mauser bolt action. 93, 95, & 98 do have an awful lot in common.

As to the WAC, I admit, I have never been to one of their shows (I'm on the wrong side of the mountains), and I had heard the shows were only for members (to do business), but I figured perhaps jckeffer might meet someone who could point him in the direction he needs to go. I'm afraid I never considered the possibility he might be met with snobbishness and rebuffed.

I have not been to the "we(s)t side" in many years, and no longer know anyone over there personally. I do know some people on the east side, but if you want a professional to check it out, remember that it is getting close to hunting season, and about now the good smiths have quite a backlog already.

Powderman
August 24, 2007, 02:40 AM
Look up Mike Palazzo; he's doing business somewhere in the Kent/Renton area.

You most definitely need a chamber casting done, a bore measurement and a breech face measurement. That case looks too small for the bolt face.

Scorch
August 24, 2007, 11:29 AM
Mike Palazzo is a good option in the Renton area. In the north end, try Cascade Armory in Arlington.

James K
August 24, 2007, 11:37 AM
Well, that is definitely a Model 93/16 bolt. The .308 has the same base size as the 7mm, so an extractor that holds one should work fine with the other.

The ejector spring is the same spring that powers the bolt stop; there is only one spring.

If the extractor doesn't hold the cartridge case until it hits the ejector, then check the extractor; the claw could be broken.

Jim

jckeffer
August 25, 2007, 02:40 PM
:( Well, after all the research and help from the Fire Line forum, I was able to locate a gunsmith. I had the rifle checked by Master Riflesmith Daniel W Cowen of Renton, WA. (also former Marine, custom rifle maker and great guy). Unfortunately, when he checked the chamber he found that it was unsafe to fire. He checked the chamber with 3 measures - for caliber, for fit and for excess room. It evidently had too much wear to be safely fired. Given the cost/risk of replacing the barrel, it was his opinion that the rifle was best used for parts. Hhe also determing that the extractor(s) were simply fatigued - there was not enough 'spring tension' in the extractors to hold the cartridge. We could bend the extractor, creating more tension temporarily, and it worked OK. Bottom line - an education but not a restorable rifle :( .
Thanks for all the help.

TEDDY
September 8, 2007, 04:17 PM
who ever sold you the gun committed fraud as he probly knew the gun was junk.the color on that bolt looks odd to my novice eye. I did get a gun spanish mause in 7mm that had a cartridge jammed in chamber.then chiseled out. I bout a barrel reom Gun parts fo $20 and replaced it put scope on $95 and 2 weeks later it was stolen.:mad:
Gun parts have barrels from $20 and up.I just looked in catalog
good luck:)

Sea_6.0
December 5, 2007, 02:28 PM
Mike Palazzo -Covington, WA ( Phone 253 631 3659)

Harry Bonar
December 5, 2007, 09:33 PM
Sir:
Jim is absolutely correct (as usual) that IS a 93 bolt - flat on the bottom - the 95 is round as usual.
Jim - explain to me how it could be worn enough to be not safe to fire as regards the chamber!
I can understand a weak extractor but it would really need to have a way oversize chamber to be unsafe - I'm not doubting that is is oversize but HOW!
I can understand headspace, but that much oversize - have you ever seen this?
Harry B.

TEDDY
December 12, 2007, 09:33 PM
Harry has it something is wrong>did the fired case bulge?why is that bolt so black.did you try the bullet in muzzle?[for size].:confused::(

James K
December 12, 2007, 10:18 PM
Hi, Harry,

Since I never saw the rifle, the only person who can answer that is the fellow who said it is unsafe. The chamber could be oversize from extensive wear or someone messing with it. An oversize chamber could account for the failure of the extractor to engage the rim. Or the gunsmith may have just been laying it on thick, trying to make sure the owner understood that the rifle was unsafe.

Quite a few of those old guns were pretty well worn out when they came in back in 1968, and 40 years of people playing around with "that old rifle" has not improved things any.

There were a bunch, though. Interarms about cleared out the Spanish arsenals. When the last big shipment came in just before GCA 68 kicked in with its milsurp ban, Interarms sent a truck down to where the Finnmark was docked. The truck was a stake bed, and it came back to the office just full to the top - with the computer printout serial number list. Interarms still had a whole lot of them when they went out of business; I think Sarco bought the stuff and I guess they are doing the same thing Interarms did, just holding on to them until the price is right, parcelling out a few at a time.

Jim