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dms
August 16, 2007, 08:08 AM
How do you guys leave your HD shotguns loaded at the house? I am using Remington #4 buckshot. I have heard different schools of thought on this. Thanks.

wolfdog45
August 16, 2007, 08:20 AM
I keep my Mossberg 590 loaded with 8 rounds of "000" buck with a empty chamber.
I keep my Auto Ordnance 1911A1 .45 loaded with 8 rounds of Federal EFMJ's right next to the bed.

VA9mm
August 16, 2007, 07:25 PM
Loaded with reduced recoil Ranger 00 Buck empty chamber. And, no it's not to cycle the action and scare someone. Beretta 90-Two 9mm sits loaded with 18rds of Golddot +P.

RedneckFur
August 16, 2007, 07:31 PM
Somtimes i keep mine loaded, most times i dont. I keep ammo for it close by, though. My SD, and hunting shotgun is a Stevens 311C double barrel, with 26" barrels. I keep some #1 buck on hand for SD, but i wouldnt hesitate to use some #7 dove loads either. The longest distance in my house is only about 35 feet.

PointOneSeven
August 17, 2007, 12:35 PM
Safety off, none in the pipe.

Either 00 or 4 Buck. Considering doing slugs, I've got a long hallway and almost zero chance of hitting a neighbor. The only reason being if .45 acp / 10mm / .50ae or 44/454/460/500 magnum = :D, then shotgun slugs = :eek:!

XD-Ro
August 17, 2007, 12:40 PM
safety on, empty chamber, Ranger 00 buck in the tube.
Though my XD9 with 16 rds of 124gr+p GDHP is what I reach for first.

Shawn Dodson
August 17, 2007, 03:07 PM
Remington 870P - Cruiser ready condition and locked in a V-Line Closet Vault in the master bedroom closet. Ammunition is Federal Premium 2 3/4" 00 Tactical Buckshot, FC-132LE, in the magazine and a mix of the same buckshot and Federal 2 3/4" Tactical TruBall rifled slug, FC-127LE, in a side saddle.

Before I had the Closet Vault I kept it unloaded in the closet, with buckshot and rifled slug ammunition stored in a side saddle and a Speedfeed buttstock.

rantingredneck
August 17, 2007, 03:10 PM
Remington 870 20 Inch IC rifle sighted.

5 rounds of 00 Remington Reduced Recoil buckshot followed by 2 Brenneke slugs. Two more Brenneke's and Two more buckshot on the sidesaddle.

I keep it firing pin down on an empty chamber, safety off.

Smitty in CT
August 17, 2007, 07:58 PM
Mossberg SPX

Safety ON, Chamber open (locked on the wall in a Loc-Box, hidden from view behind the cutains), 7 rounds of #4B in the tube.

Wife's Colt Mustang .380 is in her purse should we need a pistol....

Then there's the safe.....

spoolup
August 17, 2007, 08:28 PM
Small stackon safe in the closet holding the shottie and locking xd45C in it in the day, at nights its unlock, 5 in the tube ((00) and 5 on the stock 3-00 and 2 slugs) safety on, bolt home on a empty chamber, the XD sits bedside with a M3T and the MN11 (220 lumen) bulb ready to go.

samsmix
August 18, 2007, 12:34 AM
I'm a dissenter from the party line of 00 & slugs. Mine is loaded with 6 rounds of #4 buck. 27, .24 cal pellets to the shell.

ebutler462
August 18, 2007, 01:04 PM
Nova 20 gauge. #6s in the magazine, none in the snout. I'd rather make hamburger of a bad guy than punch holes through him. Harder to patch him up with all those bleeders. #6s within HD range will do heaps of real damage.

DonR101395
August 18, 2007, 01:30 PM
#6s within HD range will do heaps of real damage.

Just wondering where you got that info? It's incorrect. It's widely accepted that 12" of penetration is required in 10% ordnance gelatin is required to provide human incapacitation here are the results of #6 Shot (Hard shot) 4" - 6" (@5 yd)


Here is a link with a graph that shows energery of various loads at various ranges.
http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_nonsub/shotguns/shotgun_ammunition.html

FotoTomas
August 18, 2007, 02:17 PM
I have a chamber empty but locked Remington 870 in the closet. 6 rounds of Winchester Ranger Low Recoil 00 Buck in the gun and another 6 in a side saddle. The GLOCK 35 with night sights and a GLOCK light is on the top shelf with 15 rounds of 155 grain .40S&W ammo.

Creature
August 18, 2007, 03:47 PM
Condition three Mossberg 590A1 with 2-3/4" reduced recoil 00 Buck in the mag.

00 Buck only in my mag...absolutely no #6 or anything else for me. Not even slug.

ebutler462
August 18, 2007, 05:10 PM
Don, that bit of info came from 30+ years as a detective investigating such incidents. You are shooting human flesh in HD situations, not gelatin, water jugs, or sheetrock. A shotgun blast with any load within 30 feet will stop a bad guy. There are many schools of thought about HD. You nor I will be able to change their minds about the proper load. Most HD incidents occur with whatever the homeowner has handy. It always works. It either stops the guy or changes his intentions. Not even a drugged up cokehead can brave a shotgun blast at home defense distances. I have been there, seen that. Even if he is wearing a heavy overcoat, whatever is in the snout will put him down. May not be fatal, but it stops them. Makes mighty interesting work for the medicos when they get a bad guy full of #6 shot.

I have seen people shot with buckshot that survived. Some that were killed. I prefer small shot from what I have seen. Makes hamburger out of the area hit. You don't need penetration. You have stopping power aplenty.

I know that a lot of guys will say that police officers qualify with shotguns using buckshot. Correct! However, a shotgun is the most useless weapon that a cop has. It is almost never used in actual practice. The shot loads cannot be controlled and can cause too much collateral damage. When the chips are down and a cop needs to bring down a bad guy, the AR or Mini-14 is the weapon of choice. It will not penetrate the body and if you miss the target, the projectile disintegrates upon impacting.

I have no argument with a homeowner using whatever he wants to use to protect his property and life. The point that I am making is that it really doesn't matter when it comes to the use of a shotgun at HD distances. It will stop the guy.

DonR101395
August 18, 2007, 07:50 PM
Butler,
You're correct that it makes a nasty looking wound. Getting cut on the face looks nasty, but typically is non fatal. #6 is not reliable in real world application; as well as gel tests. Your assumption that you don't need penetration is a deadly assumption. Load what you like. I was just pointing out that the load you chose is far from adequate according to virtually every ballistics expert who has done testing and researched shooting involving shotguns. They nearly all recommend #4 buckshot as a minimum compromise for excessive penetration and the ones who don't; recommend #1 buckshot as a minimum for man sized targets. Just passing along the info, make your own choice.

MR.G
August 19, 2007, 09:40 AM
I have limited experience with shotguns but do keep a Mossberg 500 with a
20" barrel in the house. Does it hurt the spring to keep the tube loaded for a long period of time? I have kept mine unloaded, with some 00 buck next to it so that the tube spring is not compressed.

spoolup
August 19, 2007, 11:31 AM
Again one of those things everyone will debate. Some will say they have had mags loaded for years with no effect, other will say otherwise. BUT if you are betting life if the need ever comes, and we all hope not. Then I fould follow the guidelines set by various vendors. of approx 6 months, or after the spring has shrunk 3" from lenght. besides they are cheap, I have 9 spare for the benelli, 5 for the mossie and 10 for the 870 (5 5shot and 10 7 shot), since I keep the 870P 7 shot loaded at all times, have have extras of that one. Pumps are a little less picky on this compared to the fast operating semis, like the benelli.

Some people "restrech" the springs, but again if its a true your life situation then why risk it. Most springs can be found from $5-8 ea. Spare parts are just one of those, nice to haves and it really does not cost that much to keep a nice kit.

I look at is as a over 10 year period, the spring cost $0.50 each a year. That way is seems like nothing. I also have 8 #10 cans of freeze dried foods with 30 year shelf life, maybe I am paranoid, who knows?

Bill DeShivs
August 19, 2007, 12:54 PM
Properly designed and manufactured springs don't wear out.
You should never have to replace a magazine tube spring.

FotoTomas
August 19, 2007, 03:21 PM
I have a 7 shot magazine on my 870 and download the gun to 6 rounds in the magazine. This is a simple practice to allow me to better control my ammo supply. When I carried the shotgun on patrol I had the side saddle loaded with 3 slugs as well as 3 buckshot. If I felt I needed a slug I could load one into the magzine prior to racking the slide and have room for two more in the magazine. In reality I never needed to do it BUT I was happy I had the option.

I did have problems with the shells deforming after extended periods in the magazine under full pressure. I now play it safe in the HD shotty. 6 rounds of buck in the gun to keep the pressure on the loaded shells a little less than if 7 were loaded. Gives me 12 rounds on board rather than 13. Some how avoiding that number 13 does not bother me either! :D

ED21
August 19, 2007, 03:54 PM
Here is a link with a graph that shows energery of various loads at various ranges.
http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/conten...mmunition.html

Unless I am mistaking, I did only skim the information, he is comparing individual projectiles. He compared and graphed information for a 458gr slug to a 2gr #6 bird shot. His data did not compare the 458gr slug with 458gr of #6 bird shot. or did not compare with any of the other shot sizes with equivalent weights. I am saying here that one ounce of #6 bird shot as compared to a one ounce slug as compared to one ounce of #4 buck all at Home Defense ranges, 15 to 20 feet then the differences would be less noticeable. At these ranges, the shot pattern will not have spread and the target would absorb the entire load (if hit). I may be wrong here but this is the way I see it. I think too much is made about what shot to use in HD situations. Now if your home is a Teepee in the Bitterroot Mountains, then maybe more consideration might be advised. For most of us, worried about biped scum, the penetration of a single .24 cal #4 buck shot might not do the trick but when you consider a full load of 20+ .24 cal #4 buck shot or 230 #6 bird shot, I think either and all would do the job. (OK now, continue the debate.)

DonR101395
August 19, 2007, 04:18 PM
Unless I am mistaking, I did only skim the information, he is comparing individual projectiles. He compared and graphed information for a 458gr slug to a 2gr #6 bird shot. His data did not compare the 458gr slug with 458gr of #6 bird shot. or did not compare with any of the other shot sizes with equivalent weights. I am saying here that one ounce of #6 bird shot as compared to a one ounce slug as compared to one ounce of #4 buck all at Home Defense ranges, 15 to 20 feet then the differences would be less noticeable. At these ranges, the shot pattern will not have spread and the target would absorb the entire load (if hit). I may be wrong here but this is the way I see it. I think too much is made about what shot to use in HD situations. Now if your home is a Teepee in the Bitterroot Mountains, then maybe more consideration might be advised. For most of us, worried about biped scum, the penetration of a single .24 cal #4 buck shot might not do the trick but when you consider a full load of 20+ .24 cal #4 buck shot or 230 #6 bird shot, I think either and all would do the job. (OK now, continue the debate.)


Good observation.........
You would be correct if that 1oz of #6 stayed together as one unit. Since it doesn't, it spreads and as it spreads loses enrgy, you then end up with each projectile only penetrating a minimum amount and creating a nasty looking but superficial wound(s). As we all know a CNS hit is the only way to guarantee incapacitation. Why would you limit yourself to a round that is proven not to have sufficient penetration to reach the central nervous system?

FWIW: My preference for home defense is 5.56 loaded with 60gr Horandy TAP. More precise and less possibility of stray projectiles. I keep a shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot, but it wouldn't be my first choice of home defense gun. YMMV

lockedcj7
August 19, 2007, 06:40 PM
Mine is a Stevens SxS 20 ga. unloaded with 5 rounds of 3 in. #2 buck and 5 rounds of 2 & 3/4 in. slug handy. I also have a loaded Glock 19 and 23 with extra magazines in a lock-box in the bedroom.

I know that a SxS 20 ga. seems like an odd choice but it's simple enough that my wife (not a gun enthusiast) feels comfortable using it with minimal training and practice. It's also what I happen to have and it's pretty lawyer proof, all else being equal. In addition, we live in the country and we are more likely to have need to dispatch a rabid dog or wild hog as a BG.

hottbarrell
August 19, 2007, 10:32 PM
3-1/2"magnum steel shot goose load:eek:,empty chamber,tactical stock.

FotoTomas
August 20, 2007, 04:31 PM
Don...At home defense distances the #6 hits "en mass" The result is known as a "rathole" wound. The most distant point in my home from which I could fire a shotgun and hit someone is about 7 yards. I have seen the results of shotgun blasts at this range in my police career. #8 birdshot was used in one case and the resultant wound was a BIG single hole that got to the vitals at about 6 yards away. There was some flyers but the charge of shot hit as if it was a solid.

I picked 00 Buck because I live in a hurricane prone area. 00 Buck has a bit more reach with a bite if I am guarding the place from looters after a major storm. If it was for apartment use only then I might well go for a birdshot load in the shotgun. I have seen the results and would have no problems with using it up close in an apartment. you are basicly getting a 7/8ths or 1 ounce solid hitting the target. You MUST AIM the shotgun at HD distance to hit the target AND get the full effect of the shot charge.

DonR101395
August 20, 2007, 04:40 PM
You MUST AIM the shotgun at HD distance to hit the target AND get the full effect of the shot charge.

A true statement. I'm not disagreeing that it can be used, just that it's not the most reliable round available. It's just not worth it to me.
FWIW, I prefer an AR with 60gr TAP for my primary HD gun. More accurate, less likely to shoot through than 00 or 000 and more rounds on board even with a 20 round mag.

ARmasterzach
August 20, 2007, 09:20 PM
I keep my New England 10 guage on the wall next to my bed with a 3 1/2 inch slug on top of it.:D

Wrascal
August 22, 2007, 07:16 AM
Chamber empty,
full magazine - 2 3/4 shells,
safety OFF.

Personally, I like Mossberg's (better ergonomics for me).

Mossy 500/20 ga uses #3 (wife)
Mossy 835/12 ga uses #1