View Full Version : A&P Arms A+++
July 31, 2007, 12:47 PM
Just thought I'd give a review of one of the local shops in the greater Hampton Roads area.
A&P Arms is located at the Lynnhaven Shooting Range near the Lynnhaven Mall in Virginia Beach. I find the staff to be extremely knowledgeable of their surroundings. They don't all seem to be know-it-alls, but with certain guys specializing in different aspects.
My rifle special order and purchase went off extremely well with a very helpful, attentive staff. Even after hours they were able to contact a distributor on the west coast and get my rifle to me in only two days. The shop has extremely reasonable prices with no large markups. However, ammo can seem to be a little higher than other places around, and they tend to only get more ammo when stock is out.
They have a good selection of handguns, long guns, shotguns and tactical rifles, inclduing the .50 cals.
All in all a great atmosphere and a pleasure to browse, shop and purchase!:D
May 16, 2008, 10:17 AM
Closed until further notice...unless they are sued into oblivion: click here to read the story. (http://hamptonroads.com/2008/05/fire-shooting-range-latest-long-history-problems)
May 16, 2008, 10:33 PM
Yeah I USED to have a membership to shoot there. Wonder what will happen now. :mad: You guys know another good place to shoot in the area. I really don't want to drive all the way out to BOB's. Wish I could just shoot in my back yard. I don't think the neighbors would like it very much though. :eek:
May 17, 2008, 05:29 PM
I know that Superior Gun & Pawn on VA Beach Blvd has shooting lanes upstairs. I have never shot there though, so I don't know if its limited to pistol caliber ammo. Probably is though. Might be able to shot up to 30 Carbine and thats it.
May 20, 2008, 05:05 PM
That sucks about A&P. I was going to head out there Sunday, but then heard about the story. I ended up going to Superior Pawn on the Blvd. instead. I've heard of their reputation for having thug wannabes swarming all over the place, but the two times I've been there have yet to confirm this. A group of guys that could physically fit the profile were there last time, but one of them stopped to chat with the guy running the counter. He was well spoken, friendly, and, based on the conversation, seemed to be a regular.
As far as the actual shooting, Superior has a large selection of rental pistols, as well as a couple of .22 rifles and a shotgun. Caliber is restricted to pistol rounds and reduced recoil buckshot, I believe. They are also one of the few places I have been to that encourage handloading; they have quite a bit of handloading supplies available at the range even when the main shop is closed. They even hold classes for the beginning loader.
May 23, 2008, 10:23 PM
Norm Gladden, owner of the two locations in VA Beach and Hampton is a criminal. While most of us aren't huge fans of OSHA this guy has repeatedly been fined, cited and shut down by them. Most recently earlier this year due to powder and lead build up, holes in the BP glass between lanes and employees selling stolen weapons out of there trunk.
Superior is on the Blvd is really the only option in VA Beach worth going to. Bob's in Norfolk is too small and too dark and the range master usually has a stick up his rear end.
You spoke with Jerry at Superior, a great guy and friend of mine. I shoot there at least once a week when in the area.
Do yourself a favor and make a clean break from A&P, they are widely known for their asinine employees and owners, rude range masters and safety violations. You are risking your life if you go in there providing Norm is allowed to open back up.
June 1, 2008, 10:59 PM
SO I went by there the otehr day and they are still Closed until further notice. Looks like they are rebuilding the range but I guess we will have to wait and see.
June 7, 2008, 10:53 AM
A&P Arms is open again. I went in to take a look, mostly out of curiosity. Different faces behind the counter...the merchandise floor has definitely been cleaned up or replaced and the whole store has obviously been cleaned and decluttered overall. I didn't get a chance to look at the lanes though...
June 7, 2008, 05:27 PM
I saw on another board that " ' all else being equal,' " , and it almost never is, its a great gun. ", re: Enfield #5. My comment simply is for anyone who never heard that B4, doesn't it come from,
" ceteris paribus ", an economic concept, which posits an economical principle in the universe where
" all else is held equal " ? The kicker being, things are rarely if EVER " held equal ". So, stupid point ? If so, sorry. I just acquired an Enfield Mark V Jungle Carbine, because I still own some land and need a critter getter. So many friends and relatives are firearms nuts, but I quit shooting when someone popped up over the hill on our ranch when I was 18 while there was a round approaching. They weren't hit , but it stopped me.
June 7, 2008, 07:16 PM
July 1, 2008, 06:48 PM
A&P Is Open !!!! Got a really nice Sig for a good price. 2 out of 3 bays (12 lanes are open.
September 8, 2008, 06:46 PM
I second Ssgt Savage's comment about A&P Arms employee's being rude. Their Hampton Store has one clerk who fits that bill to a T. I've been shooting, handling weapons, competing for 38 years and I know how to handle myself with weapons, and I've seen this particular clerk treat potential customers as if they are incompetent.
In one case, I witnessed a customer come into the store to sell a handgun which he brought into the store in it's factory case and this clerk yanked it out of his hand and told him don't touch the weapon, I'll clear it.
I've informed many members of the club I belong to and many agree and many avoid this gunshop opting to pay slightly less for their firearms, yes, I said LESS, at Superior Pawn and Gun or simply have the pawnshop across the street from them order one, and even that's cheaper.
September 9, 2008, 11:18 AM
There are far too many alternatives than to subject yourself to A & P VA Beach or Hampton. They bait and switch, sell used weapons for new, treat customers like second class citizens, run a filthy lead covered range, repeatedly violate OSHA standards, lie, cheat and steal! All of which is documented if you visit Virginia's BBB web site, The OSHA website, local newspaper site (pilotonline.com) or just Google A & P Arms Virginia.
I found a distributor to LEO's in the Newport News area. His pricing kills every other FFL from the North, Ashland to the South, VA Beach. He is on J Clyde Morris Blvd near the 64 overpass. For weapons he can get what you need if it's not on hand he can get it and sell to you at what a LE department would pay. Example, I bought a Glock 34 from him for $509. You can't get a great deal on every manufacturer from this guy, but most.
The Armory in Virginia Beach for ammo! (the-armory.com) Excellent deals, use their website to find what you need and print out your shopping cart or just the pricing for what you want. They will honor the additional 10% off internet pricing. They have some great deals on PMC target loads, S&B and a ton of 762, 556 and 223. I've been grabbing battle packs of each every trip. They also ship to your door if you are out of State.
Back to A&P. I won't get into what they did to me and a few other friends of mine but it cost them over $50,000 to undo what they did and I got a free Sig out of it only after forcing my hand. The A&P range is known by my club(s) as the "Mall ninja" range and shop. Just do yourself a favor, drive a few more miles there are many ranges and shops in Tidewater.
Contact me if you need info on the best place for the buy. I've lived in VA for most of my life so I know most of the spots.
September 9, 2008, 01:26 PM
I know the dealer your referring to on J. Clyde, and I have purchased both a Glock 17 and a Beretta from him in the past and he is a very good dealer, doesn't try to sell you what your not looking for, he knows his weapons as I once had a long talk with him over the 1911 vs M9 and I found him very knowledgable about a wide variety of weapons, plus, he brings his dog to the store, and a guy who does that gets my business.
As to the Armory, I've purchased nearly 20 of their Kimpro Tac mags, I mean GEEZ $34.95 at A&P arms, Bobs and only 17.95 at The Armory.
I have to say one thing on behalf of A&P however, they do have one employee by the name of Chet that is a VERY good employee, knows his business, treats every customer as family, and is honest, I knew him mostly when he was in their Peninsula store that is now Superior Pawn & guns.
September 9, 2008, 11:05 PM
That fat little Taco Bell dog will bite you if you step behind the counter...otherwise he's laid back.
You should tell your friend to go back to Superior, they let a range guy go recently. I met one or two nice guys that worked there as well. But I met many more jerks than nice guys. It's the owner's greasiness dripping down onto his managers. That's why the manager was caught selling pistols out of his trunk, arrested and now in prison. They consistently violate OSHA regs for lead content in the air and build up on the range. They just keep paying the fines, fixing it when they get caught and moving on. And the latest flash fire up the range from chemical build up, poor ventilation and a hot load. Two people were in the burn units for months. So we'll see if Norm can keep his doors open after the court date.
September 10, 2008, 07:02 AM
That fat little Taco Bell dog will bite you if you step behind the counter...otherwise he's laid back.Yappy lil' guy.
I bought my G23 there, great folks to deal with and I'd go back in a heartbeat. (for a G21 SF) :D
September 10, 2008, 07:56 AM
The guy at Virginia Gun and Sports supply sells em, he eve has huge stickers in the window screaming Glock but he doesn't like them! He talked me into a PT1911S he had when I went in a few months ago to get the G34 (my first Glock). So I went back a few weeks later and bought he G34. Despite the fact that it looks just like my BB pistol, feels like a 2X4 and squeaks when you work the slide I can't miss with it! I was shooting poker chips at 20 yards and maintaining 1"-2" grouping. At the front line of the range (7 yards) I can hit the same hole every time. It's the most accurate semi-auto HG I have.
Definitely a good shop, honest owner and he's a pistol smith to boot. If you need some mods done on your weapon he stocks parts. His ammo isn't too bad either.
Seems to be a lot of Virginians in my area. Anyone else frequent Superior Pawn and Gun on Va Beach Blvd? Jerry is the range master... maybe we can have a members only range day over there. Jerry would reserve all but two lanes for me in advance....
September 30, 2008, 07:39 PM
im sitting here giggle snorting at Savage.
Norm is a twisty old business man. hes an alright guy once you get him out of the business mentality.
A&P Arms is a Great Place. the employees are what make it great. Norm doesnt want to do anything about cleaning the place or controlling the lead because he doesnt want to spend the money, however the employees do, thats why when you go in there early the bays are WET, thats why all the carpet has been removed. the employees take care of it themselves, of course turning in the receipts for what they buy to repair or clean the place up.
as we speak, the employees are remodeling the bathrooms and Bay 3. I, a customer, lend a helping hand a little here and there.
i think you (Mr. Savage) bought a Sig CPO thinking that was a model of Sig handgun. thats Sig Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) and complained that you thought it was new. (if your the person i think you are. you came back wanting a owners manual)
ALSO.....Norm Gladden Owns the Range at Superior Pawn. Superior Rents the building from Norm Gladden. Furthermore Superior Pawn is in More trouble with the Local Police and the ATF than A&P arms for possesing and selling stolen property, including guns.
Mike, the guy at the hampton store is a "know it all" and doesnt like it when someone actually does know more than him. he gets flustered and frustrated. because he works there, he therefore believes he must know more, because he works there.
as for the employees being rude at Lynnhaven. you must have done something wrong including raising your voice. remember they are the Range Masters. everyday they fight an onslaught of morons that want guns. including known felons, gangsters and people that are angry because someone just cut them off in traffic, screwed there wife or took there parking spot at the mall. when you ask to see a gun EVERYONE working there and regulars are studying you. they will deny service to you even if a regular like myself says something about you. or if another customer gives a strange look about you. also remember. people have shot themselves including commit suicide thats why everyone is given a range safety test and again you are studied to see if you are mentally sound. they all want to go home at the end of the night, not go to the hospitol with you and the have to give statements to police all night long let alone clean up blood.
October 2, 2008, 09:53 PM
Zipkana...nope, information completely wrong on me as well as Superior being under any indictment or trouble with the BATF or local LE. Norm Gladden is a crook, only a few people would agree with what you posted here. I'm guessing you're either Norm or one of his boys that work for him.
If it's such a great place then why did the range catch on fire releasing a back draft that injured all of those shooters this summer burning the place to the ground? If A&P is such a great place why does he have over 50 BBB complaints in less than 24 months? Moreover, 12+ OSHA complaints with multiple violations? Employees of A&P selling weapons out of their cars? Yea, that's where I want to go practice when my private range is full...
Snicker, giggle, whatever. Try and do some research before you post incorrect information. He was fined over $25k in the last OSHA inspection, I think it's time for another.
I did purchase a new weapon there and returned only to throw my free range membership at one of the jackasses working there almost 2 years ago. I've wasted enough time with A&P and Norm. I reported him as well and he didn't comply, as usual, and less than 6 months later he sent employees and customers from the range to the hospital via ambulance. Yea, that's a great place to go shoot. NOT.
Superior's building is owned by Norm, that's info anyone can gather from Hoovers, D&B, VAB courthouse, etc... I don't purchase weapons from Superior I just have one of my range memberships there because you get treated with some respect. I never raised my voice until A&P tried to rip me off, unsuccessfully. They paid dearly and if you and others that are A&P employees continue harassment you will be getting a visit by a uniformed officer as well.
I will stop in for an inspection there and see what he has done. To this day A&P has no idea who I am or who I work for and with. They should take the time to look at some State listings before sending forum trolls out again. If I don't like what I see he will be getting another visit from my friends @ the OSHA field office in Norfolk. Thanks for reminding me. If you're a regular you can give them a heads up if you like but it won't do much good. VBPD has Norm on a BOL list, not a good place to be. Let's see how many fines he can rack up this time around. Good job, I would ask for an extension on your range membership this month. The inspection won't be announced and I guarantee you 100% that he will have at least a dozen violations no matter how much carpet they tear up.
Anyone else reading the post take the time to research this range and the one in Hampton. Too many complaints with Federal, State and local agencies to count. Powder build up from phosphorous found on the range nearly killing two customers and injuring a few others. It's in black and white on the local newspapers websites, the OSHA website, the BBB, Dept. of Consumer affairs and if you have any affiliations with LE in town you would know that they consider him a crook and are just waiting to shut him down. Real nice place you are standing up for, get your facts straight instead of your sophomoric, inaccurate babbling.
You really shouldn't have come all he way to this forum to harass me over this but in a way I'm glad you did. Time for Norm to try and pay his way out of another slue of violations. If you'd like to send me a private email with your information I can include you in the reports.
October 3, 2008, 01:02 PM
I agree with you totally on the Va. Beach range, HOWEVER, A&P arms does not maintain a range in Hampton. That range was purchased by Superior Pawn and Gun, which is owned by Norm, but, earlier this year in 08 they had a professional company in to completely revitalize the range from the time A&P owned it. A&P is still in hampton, but they've moved further down Mercury Blvd to the old Peninsula Gun Works Building. The new range at Superior Pawn are pretty good, clean, Breezy with great ventilation, otherwise I wouldn't use them. LOL, I got so many free range cards from Bob's in Norfolk, it's just a tad too far to drive all the time lol, with Superiors range around the corner.
October 3, 2008, 07:34 PM
Contrary to these posts Norm Gladden does not own Superior. He owns the building in VA Beach and rents to Superior owners. Superior is not my favorite range, my own range at home is. I just choose the VAB range with Superior over any in the area. Plus Jerry (range master) is a good guy and knows his stuff.
October 7, 2008, 03:49 AM
OK, after reading this thread i followed Sgt Savage's suggestion. I googled A&P arms and found some very interesting reading from the Virginia Pilot news and a guy named sailorcurt on his blog and a argument on Haloscan. Having attended gunshows in the area it seems to me all the gunshops in the area seem to have thier supporters and distractors.
I've shot at A&P for a while and they have been good to me. They also have a lot of law enforcement that shoot & buy there on a regular basis, before and after the fire. So if the police buy and shoot there I'm pretty confident of my safety and of them not taking advantage of customers.
Are they rude at times ? Yes, but i can understand why. It takes just one unsafe or ignorant person with a firearm and thier day can get bad very quickly.
Have they been hit by OSHA, yes but then again it seems like OSHA hits everyone. Thats thier job. The fire was a tragic accident. A&P is not the only range to have a accident or recieve a OSHA fine. If A&P Arms was a continueing threat they'd be shut down period ! They are open.
On a side note, anyone remember that OSHA wanted to prohibit us from keeping ammo at home ??
Did a manager steal firearms from A&P the answer is yes. People steal, its a sad thing when its from somebody they trusted. Is anyone aware that it was A&P that called the ATF and turned him in ?
As far as BBB complaints i only saw two, hopefully this link works.
If it doesn't work just do a Hampton Roads BBB search.
I would like to say the internet is often used as a tool to complain for people that want to. Its to bad that complaints and dissatisfaction get posted far more then positive remarks. To be fair though Sgt Savage is right ! Do your own research, but remember its our responsibility to judge for ourselves who we're buying our guns from, not to take internet postings good or bad at face value.
In closing this is just my opinion, some people on this thread will probably disagree with it. I may disagree with thier opinion but i still respect thier right to have it. No disrespect intended to anyone.
So shop wisely, use good judgement,support the second admendment and hit your target !
Vote for the McCain/ Palin Ticket
October 15, 2008, 10:40 PM
Since I am entering my mid-life crisis (that is half way or further towards the dirt nap, correct?) I tend to fly off the handle and am also one to hold a grudge. I am working with this and I can only hope that I'm not on double, super-secret probation. So I apologize to those members offended by the way I conducted my post. I let Zipakna (an A&P Arms employee or customer) get to me, bad day.
I still feel compelled to reply so that you can educate yourself and I can justify my comments.
A & P Arms and Norm Gladden will never gain my business in any shape form or fashion. Even the A&P advocate zippakna pointed out that Norm doesn't care, it's up to the employees.
My first visit there I left after only a 20 minute range session blowing lead dust out of my nose and coughing spent powder clouds. I used all lanes across the bays eventually ending up in one with a .22 cal hole shot through the acrylic separating the lanes. I got hit with a nice 110V@ 15A shock with one of their convenience heaters on more than one occasion and the range master, no matter what credentials and affiliations I hold, was usually a power hungry want to be LEO type, dumb as a bag of hammers... Perhaps they were threatened by my suit and shoulder rig but I have never had an issue at any range in my 35 years of range shooting including my military service and ROTC/JROTC.
A & P is the only range to have a fire that severe (- WHICH is still under investigation, wwww.Pilotonline.com archives (if you're a member), I can't paste link, it's an HTTPS URL if you want to see the proof on that.) In the history of any range in the southeast. I don't know of all the others but that was the report from the news.
What causes a major literal atmospheric explosion where the air burns towards you like a after burst from a back drafted fire? The comments are slim, phosphorous was mentioned in one article but I haven't found out much since a few months after the fire. I know he has court dates pending for some of the injured in the blast furnance type accident. REGARDLESS, that range should be safe no matter what. Norm burns through employees and they don't take care of the place. He ignores warnings, pays fines for his negligence and repeats that pattern regularly. IMO and from what I've heard LEOs that frequent there are getting good deals and are acquaintances of his.
The BBB unfortunately only keeps the last 3 years available online, you can request the full file of complaints online for a nominal fee. A & P
's BBB rating; "Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record..." Neither of the two complaints listed are the one I put in and others won't take that step to file a complaint. I was never given what was promised and paid for. I am not the only one to have made that complaint in the local shooting community there.
My only concern was and is the safety for those of us who are compelled to visit an indoor range three times a week as I do fairly often. I prefer my weekends in the back yard, but I still need a lane to stay sharp and blow off steam some times.
A&P has a proven track history of bad service, sales, potential deadly explosions and fires and the owner does not seem to care. Perhaps that is why local law dawgs are hanging their hats their...? Getting midnight tracer round practice? Class 3? Who knows.
So if you're in VAB and want to shoot all day check out C2 in Pungo, outdoor range, nice. Or Superior on the VAB Blvd near Independence Blvd for some 25 YD pistol and pistol caliber rifle or shotgun lanes. I've been going for years, never been shocked, never had to blow the lead out of my nose or brush it off of my targets, neverr caught on fire or been shot at. There are some new to weapons that screw up but it's handled professionally, not like the wrecking crew at A & P.
I'm done with this topic, thanks.:barf:
October 17, 2008, 01:18 PM
Shakespeare wrote, "Hell hath no fury like woman scorned". I guess he never met SSgt Savage. You may want to talk to someone about all your pined up anger and hostility.
I shot at A&P/Lynnhaven twice a week on average. I think the place is pretty squared away, which is why I started working there. I have not lived in Virginia all my life, and I do not know the history of A&P all those years ago. Don't really care. I usually leave the past in the past. The employees for the most part are great. We have a couple of nerds, a few former or active military guys and a couple of real gun aficionados. The people who work there have never been any thing but polite and helpful to me. Then again I do not try going into a gun shop/range and act like I know more than the people working there. (Though more often than not I do) I also do not presume to know what their job should be nor what it should entail as compared to the service I request. I am also a realist and know we can not please all the people all of the time. The people who are unhappy are usually more vocal than those who are happy. I will assume there is a silent majority since people line up for the range and more often than not say, "Thank you" on their way out the front door after shooting or purchasing.
As far as the range, the employees and the gun selection goes, they are, in my opinion, better than Bob's, Superior, the Marine exchange, or the Armory. I must say, the guys at the Armory have always been nice to me and their ammo prices are great.
SSgt Savage, Thanks for the posting, the desire to reply was the only reason I joined this forum. p.s. do you really wear a blazer with a shoulder rig?
October 17, 2008, 04:45 PM
Just to clear a common mistake, William Congreve wrote "Hell hath no fury like a women scorned." in a play The Mourning Bride. You were accurate when you said I guess he never met SSgt Savage. If someones tries to scam me or doesn't deliver on a promise, especially in business, I am going to take them down. Regardless of the business. But thanks for the offer to seek professional help, my wife handles that for me.
I got screwed by A & P plain and simple. The BBB forced Norm to take care of the issue and he did after many months of waiting, buying time, waiting until the last minute. Sort of like what he does about safety, and the fire that injured those shooters. The facts I have posted are not only true but proven and easily found through the BBB, State Police, OSHA and DOCA. I am not living in the past I replied to a post on a web forum , more like many web forums, but all the same I did it to warn other gun owners of not only the sales techniques, but the 180 they turned on me after getting my cash. I was with 6 other friends as well, they all got the same rude service and we all turned in our memberships! We aren't clones, A & P treats people like second class citizens.
FAIR BUSINESS PRACTICE. Is that much too ask for? SAFETY on a range? Your most recent fire shows how much Norm cares about anyone's safety, and that wasn't the first time! I can only hope he felt remorse and not just because it will hit him in the pocket. I am an excellent judge of character, even on most first impressions. That is a dishonest person if I've ever met one whom cares only about himself.
I warn others of potential danger going to the range due to the enormous amount of lead, paper dust, holes in BP glass, etc... and the potential for accidents. A year later the range caught some A & P members and employees on fire and gutted the building in an inferno. I am GLAD that I made so many posts and hopefully deterred some away, some that would have gone the day of the most recent fire and been hurt. Or perhaps a new gun owner on his first purchase that may have trouble understanding and get nothing but a holier than thou attitude or get ripped off on a bait and switch. I will always steer business to those places where I have pleasant experiences, never to A & P Arms. A & P was absolutely the worst out of every range and/or shop in eastern VA. I am not anywhere close to alone in this feeling about A & P. I have spoken to literally hundreds of people that will never give them their business.
You and your peers continual harassment and posts do have me considering other avenues if it persists. I've gotten calls at home, email and of course these forum posts. You helped throw more fuel on the fire especially since you are obviously a former Marine and employee of Norm's. You have all but given your name here.
I understand your point and I know how hard being a range master can be as well. Your insult to compare me to a woman's scorn or to offer your dime store psychology prognosis' are not called for especially if you are only getting the side of the story from the one that was PROVEN WRONG. And that's all it is, I was 100% right and Norm was in the wrong. Case closed.
The fire happened only a few short months ago, you expect anyone to believe that Norm didn't cut corners?!? It has happened prior to this, I am seeking how many other times. I know of two totaling three fires at his ranges in a short time period. I'll look into that in the local paper archives.
I had never been treated like that in any range, shop, gallery, show, anywhere. There were other customers in the shop on some of my visits that met me in the parking lot to tell me they would never go back after hearing the words of your peers. Not to mention the now 21 people I frequently shoot with that also visit other forums, businesses, people and tell them about A & P.
An A & P Arms employee actually said Jes*s F'n Chr*st to my face (full format, not abbreviated - I am a Christian so that was hard from me to type, my apologies) when I simply asked for the paperwork, box and accessories that came with my weapon...that took four months and 6 very long drives. I gave them every chance to make it right from day one and they refused, forcing me after 4 weeks to complain formally. I didn't walk in with an attitude, I shopped out a weapon and found it their, the rest is on a public report with the BBB. Have a read before any further cases of diarrhea of the mouth please.
Stay Safe, Stay out of A & P Arms, Lynnhaven Shooting Range. I would rate A & P Arms, Lynnhaven Shooting Range and Hampton location a negative 5 on a scale of one to five.
My weapons concealment should not be a concern of yours. I carry heavy, consistently and accurately.
October 21, 2008, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the correction on the quote.
Look… I wasn't then nor am I now trying to pick a fight or make you mad. Sectshun8 made a post and you made a reply. A few others made posts, always with your reply to follow shortly thereafter condemning A&P. I simply offer a different point of view. The passion with which you reply leads one to believe if they do not agree with you , they are somehow guilty of a great offense. You submitted, "You and your peers continual harassment and posts do have me considering other avenues if it persists." You consider someone disagreeing with your point of view harassment? You have made more post (8 of 24) than anyone else on this thread, most derogatory, yet you are the one being harassed? What kind of "fuel" have I thrown the fire? I do not work for Norm. I have never met Norm. Norm has never signed my paycheck. I do work at A&P, I work for the GM. If my identity is a point of interest, it is not be hard to find out who I am. Just come in and ask for Gunny. Or just look for the old fat guy with the flat-top.
It is unfortunate you had such an unpleasurable experience. At any rate it goes back to an original point … You can't please everyone all the time. It really is not fair or even truthful for you to post or insinuate the employees at A&P are rude, unsafe, uneducated, or uncaring, considering the majority of employees have been working there no more than 6 or 8 months. Long after your experience. The employees of A&P can not be lumped into the character pool of Norm Gladden no more than a guy in a chinese factory, dropping circuit boards into a PC can be affiliated with Bill Gates. I still disagree with your point of view, as do many of the smart, loyal, friendly, and all around great patrons of Lynnhaven shooting range who come by to either shoot targets or just shoot the breeze.
You accused me of "diarrhea of the mouth". From where did that comment come? I never said you were wrong in your grievance with Norm. I never insinuated you weren't treated fairly. Again I make the point, the current employees are, for the most part, a great bunch of guys. You shoot where ever you like, but how about laying off bad mouthing people you do not know nor have ever met?
UPDATE: Being new to the whole posting/blogging thing.... I have been looking through the internet and found this interesting piece about A&P Arms in relation to Mr. Savage. It makes for some interesting reading. Copy and paste the link below to your browser.
November 1, 2008, 06:27 AM
I'm a rookie shooter so take my opinion for what it's worth. I went into the Hampton A&P shop a couple weeks ago to buy an HD shotgun. I wish I had paid attention to the names of the two gentlemen working that day but I didn't. Anyway, they were both respectful and didn't seem to talk down to me at all. I had done a lot of research on the Remington 870 (including this site) and everything the salesman told me was on the money - no attempt to deceive or move me into more of a shotgun than I really needed. He did show me the Marine model but when I told him I wasn't interested he didn't push.
I was happy with my experience there and would have no problem going back for future purchases. I'm not in any way implying that those who have not enjoyed their experience with A&P are lying or mistaken - I just think it's fair to relate a positive experience and to point out that some of us have had a pleasant experience with A&P. Thanks,
November 5, 2008, 10:37 AM
Hey Gunny, thnx for the heads up on that. I LOVE how you took SAVAGE's advice and did your own research lol.
Savage? really? c'mon dude. Look, like you seem to do, I am going to follow suit because to be honest, I am a little out of my water on this forum. See, I actually hang out on forums. ALOT! I have the greatest job in the world. I work on computers and carry a gun. Only thing better would be to play video games and carry a gun, but I digress. So I hang out on the internet often and am in and out of message boards in languages you dont even know exist more then likely. 1f u n0 wh47 1 m34n lol!
I just happen to be looking to see if A&P had a website cause I am shopping for something specific. And I tripped over this board. And let me tell you. I know a couple russian hackers that could give you pointers on how to lie online. You spend way too much time being what we call Cyber tough guy. you imply that you are somebody important irl (IN REAL LIFE) and that you "have friends" roflmfao!! no you dont and you know it. You have the internet. Thats it. I know it makes you feel powerful. Makes you feel like you have a voice in the lonely nights. But honestly, you should go hang out with some real people with real thoughts that THEY came up with on their own. Walk away from the imaginary seal team best friends. Put down your super secret CIA badge. Your a potzer. You know it. We know it.
Now I have been to A&P often. Honestly? not my fav place to shoot. I shoot IDPA and cant double tap at A&P. Fine. Thats their call. I am not going into there house and telling them what to do. (been warned a few times and I dont push my luck TOO much). I have bought 1 weapon from them. They were helpful. Answered my questions and didnt try to upsell me. Might be because when I am seen people think of me as a mean looking geek. Or it could be because I spoke to them as equals and not someone put there to serve my whims. They dont know I know my stuff until we talk. Once they realize I know what I am doing they relax a bit. But still a geek. Not my fault. My mom dresses me funny. Not as funny as someone trying to be cool and sporting a shoulder rig. Really? you really did that? You do know the point of that is to be CONCEALED right? 35 years and still a newb? of course your going to get pwn3d when you go in there. newb.
As for the staff, they seem cool to me. The tall guy...and I do mean TALL! is great. he talks TO people not through them. he cracks jokes and laughs at yours. Except the dumb ones then he laughs at you and not the joke. You know, kinda like well rounded people do. They are there to do a job. They are not there to cater to you. When the customer is holding a gun, he is not always right. Sorry, I think they do a bang up job to be honest. You walk up to me and ask to see a gun and expect me to give it you, you'll get laughed at. They actually have to do it. Brave as far as I am concerned. I dont trust ANYONE with a gun around me.
To everyone else, I dont normaly flame on message boards and those that do annoy me. But I had to take a shot at mr Savage there. I would LOVE to meet him in real life over a cup of coffee and laugh at him to his face. I do respect peoples opinions. Very much so. As long as they are honest with them. The cyberposturing there was killing my brain. I guess now that I posted I am opening myself to being flamed too. I deserve it I guess.
November 5, 2008, 01:52 PM
Forgot to add:
Savage, Congreve did not write that quote. Thats a socialogical adaptation of a quote of his that even Shakespeare played with. the quote YOUR talking about is:
"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned."
I would have left it alone but you felt the need to correct Gunny with your ineptitude. Next time you use the internet to show off, check something besides bartleby or wikipedia.
November 7, 2008, 07:31 PM
Shikoku, Come by the range and ask for Gunny. I have a couple free range passes for you. If you want to rapid fire or do holster drills try to come by before the crowd Monday -Thurday. (usually before 5pm) Show the RSO you know what you're doing and he or she will let you run loose.
November 10, 2008, 11:19 AM
I stumbled across this post by accident. The only thing I would like to add is this..... I have purchased at least 4 weapons from the folks at A & P and I have never been treated with anything other than respect and patience.
As far as the range goes.... I have a membership that I use weekly. Every Sunday as a matter of fact. I am typically one of the first in the door Sunday at 12 noon. I have never been treated poorly by ANY employee. As a matter of fact I am usually greeted by my name and my hand is shook..... Maybe I am respected because I respect their rules. Maybe it is because I try and spend a few minutes just "shooting the breeze" with the men and woman who are employed there. Maybe it is simply due the fact that the people I encounter there, are genuine nice folks. This is my experience.
November 10, 2008, 02:32 PM
I shot at A&P Virginia Beach three times a week for years until Camp Allen opened. Then I practically lived there. A&P has a clientele on the range that demands attention. In the old days they had some great employees like Ed Morningstar. If you think you know more about guns or are a better shot than Ed, well then you're wrong. He was patient and kind too. Norm was, is, and will be an idiot. He is a tightwad. Nowadays the beach store hires clerks, not gun people and it shows.
A&P Hampton is a different story. Norm is pretty hands off and Mike keeps an excellent stock. In personal transactions and buying from the store I have always been happy. The prices are right, used and new are clearly marked and regular customers are always welcome. Mike deserves a medal for being as nice as he is in light of what walks through his doors. His is the only Hampton Roads shop I'll go to.
Nothing bad to say about Superior other than their prices are pawn shop high. Harvey is a great guy and quite a gunsmith but I don't think he does that anymore. Their Hampton range was pretty beat up last time I saw it.
November 11, 2008, 03:48 PM
I don't think I'd ever want to use A&P Lynnhaven's range, but both of their stores have a ton of of pistols in stock and have the best prices of any retail store between Richmond and Virginia Beach. Their staff are up-and-down, but in general nothing I'd get upset about. Bob's in Norfolk probably has the best staff, and Green Top has the best selection of long guns. DeGoff's is also pretty good, although they don't excel in any particular area. Bob Moates' is usually overpriced, but has some interesting older guns and sometimes a real find. I've found Superior to be overpriced, but I actually kind of like the staff. When I've been there, they've seemed competent and courteous, although in a blue-collar (rather than good-ol-boy) kind of way. The Marksman is very, very overpriced and the staff, other than Janet, sometimes creep me out.
As for actual shooting, I joined the Lafayette Gun Club in Yorktown and that's been an excellent decision. I don't know anything about Airfield Shooting Club down in Southside, but it has to be preferable to the indoor lanes.
November 27, 2008, 08:04 AM
New guy here, stumbled across the board looking for A&P's website. I haven't shot at the Lynnhaven range, went one day to do it and it was way too crowded. But I did have a bad experience at the gun counter. My wife was looking for a new Glock, she stood at the counter for a long time (at least 5 minutes) no one talked to her. I was looking at holsters, saw her at the counter walked over and a sales guy walked right up and asked me if he could help (he had previously been standing around). The wife looked at him and said no thanks and then told me we were leaving. Haven't been back.
I was quite surprised by the customer service at that store. I have bought more than a few guns from the Hampton Store and have always been treated like their best customer. Mike is a great guy to talk to. Shame the two shops are so different.
We shoot at Superior's Hampton range at least twice a week. The folks there are great, Dave knows an awful lot about guns, Tony and Duane are always willing to help.
December 8, 2008, 07:23 PM
I just shot there today! I found the staff to be helpful, respectful, and very knowledgeable. Their prices are great and they have a much larger supply than most. The range was clean, safe, and well lit. I will be buying my next gun there.
December 12, 2008, 03:18 PM
After retiring from the military, I worked in the Hampton Roads area and carried a 2" .357 wheel gun. I had an A&P membership and would stop by at least three or four times a week and do some firing to stay proficient with the short barrel sidearm. Never had a problem, never was treated badly, and felt like I was treated fairly. Yeah, there were nicer or newer ranges, but A&P was convenient and the people were friendly. No complaints, nor did I hear any from others.
I always try to remember that there are some folks who just can't be pleased, and those who make mountains out of mole hills.
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