Caps?

[Yankee Doodle]

I am thinking about changing the nipple on my T/C Hawken .54 to accept musket caps. I have been told that this will give me more positive ignition. In reality, except for three times when I tried Pyrodex, I have not had any problems. I usually use 2F B.P. With all the new rules re: transportation of B.P. do you think it is worth my while to make the switch?

[mykeal]

If it isn't broken, why are you trying to fix it????

One word answer: no.

[Yankee Doodle]

Well, I am trying to think ahead. I do not get reliable ignition with Pyrodex, and with the new laws coming out, I anticipate having a problem in getting real black powder.
I am trying to ensure reliability with Pyrodex, before BP gets to be too rare and expensive to buy.
Just my thoughts on the matter

[Wild Bill Bucks]

The only problem I ever had with pyrodex ignition was due to me trying to use Pellets instead of loose in my side lock. Some side locks will ignite them just fine, but my Thompson would not. I changed over to a small rifle primer and that solved the problem with shooting pellets. I would however bare in mind that if you change the ignition delivery system of your rifle, it may well show a difference in POI so don't just change it without re-zeroing in your rifle. It made about a 4" difference in mine but I can't tell you why. Probably has something to do with a higher burn rate between primers, but I will leave that to more knowledgeable shooters here on the forum.

[Yankee Doodle]

Wild Bill
How did you get small rifle primers to work in a side lock? What kind of modification was made, and would you be willing to tell me how much it cost? That sounds like a problem solver for sure.
Thanks

[K.A.T.]

I have a 50.T.C. Hawkins,I tried the musket caps and my gun would not pop the caps every time.The hammer spring was not strong enough. It was not very reliable.I didn't have a problem with the #11's I was just experimenting.

I hunt with my Hawkins,and leave the in-line at home,here is what works for me.Before I go in the woods I load about 50 or 60 grains of pyrodex and pack a dry patch on top of it and fire it off,if it hang fires any at all,do it again!

I have replaced my original barrel with a greenmountain barrel that has a 1in28 twist,it likes powerbelts and maxiballs.I don't use sabots,they are harder to load in a dirty barrel.

I load 20grs. of loose pyrodex,lean the rifle over toward the nipple side and bump the side of the rifle with my hand.This places powder over toward the nipple helping with ignition.Then load two 50gr. pyrodex pellets ,then a 295gr. powerbelt or a 320gr.maxiball.When shooting the maxiball I use a felt wad between it and the powder.These two bullets shoot almost identical,so close I don't have to change the sites.I tried 15gr. of loose powder in front of the pellets and it wasn't reliable,20grs. works ever time.Using the pellets takes packing the powder the same every time out of the process,which improved my accuracy.

It puts the meat in the freezer,and has never let me down.I spent alot of time and money trying different things,maybe this will help someone.

[Wild Bill Bucks]

I bought the conversion kit from cabela's. Its simple to install, as it just screws in where your primer holder nipple screws in know. The top screws off and you put the primer inside, and screw the top back on. Top becomes a firing pin that hits the primer when fired. About $20.00 or so I think.

Only problem is making sure you don't drop the top out of your stand when priming. It is a little bit of a hassle, but it eliminates moisture problems, and absolutely eliminates mis-fires. It is an instantaneous ignition, and makes your rifle a little more like a 30-30 than a muzzleloader.

[Sarge]

I am thinking about changing the nipple on my T/C Hawken .54 to accept musket caps. I have been told that this will give me more positive ignition. In reality, except for three times when I tried Pyrodex, I have not had any problems. I usually use 2F B.P. With all the new rules re: transportation of B.P. do you think it is worth my while to make the switch?


I can tell you with confidence that switching to a musket nipple will provide significantly faster and more reliable ignition than you'll get with standard percussion caps. We have a Traditions Springfield Hawken (http://http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/traditions.html)that wsa a tad sluggish with Pyrodex, partictlarly in damp weather, and converting it for musket caps was the best thing I ever did for that rifle. Accuracy may have even improved a tad, and she thumps you as soon as the hammer falls now.

About the only downside is that musket caps are more costly than the standard variety, but IMO it worth a few extra pennies per shot to know that the gun is gonna go BOOM right now, whenever I press the go-switch. Make sure your hammer is centering your current nipple before you swap them out, 'cause with the added diameter of the musket nipple it'll need to be.

Take care-

[arcticap]

Were you using Pyrodex P fffg on the few occassions when you had the misfires?
The smaller granulation settles better in the breech. As long as your flash channel is clean it should ignite just fine, but I can understand why you'd want to convert your ignition for hunting.
Some folks will place a couple of grains of powder under the nipple to improve reliablility during hunting.
Maybe a better #11 nipple would help too, but Pyrodex P does promote better ignition. And then there's #11 magnum caps from CCI and RWS.

[Gbro]

Musket caps are louder, but i am not convinced they add any more fire to the powder. I posted about this 3-4 months and haven't finished my testing on the difference in performance.
What i do know is the the navy caps i used wouldn't push a cleaning patch out of the barrel.
CCI M-Caps would but not any better than a #11.

[38splfan]

I have a .50 T/C Hawken with a musket cap nipple. I've noticed better performance in moist weather, but couldn't tell you why. May just be a fluke. Works well for me, anyway, YMMV.
Good luck either way, they're great rifles:)

[Joe Martin]

I am thinking about changing the nipple on my T/C Hawken .54 to accept musket caps. I have been told that this will give me more positive ignition. In reality, except for three times when I tried Pyrodex, I have not had any problems. I usually use 2F B.P. With all the new rules re: transportation of B.P. do you think it is worth my while to make the switch?
__________________
God Bless America
Y.D.

Y.D.

Try #11 RWS caps, the hot firing ones. They are well known for being hotter then many caps on the market today, and they work very well. I think you'll like them and you'll have no worries using them to set off Pyrodex.

[Double J]

--The musket caps will definaty give a hotter flame. And there are other small changes that help. One is to have a smith drill a small vent into the drum. This helps the flash reach the main charge. And I've found that a finer grain powder, such as FFFG black or Pyrodex"P" to be more reliable than FFG grades.
--After pouring the powder down the barrel, use the palm of your hand to pat the lock a few times to help the powder settle into the drum/nipple area. Then go ahead and finish loading as usual. Also check the nipple after each shot. Some caps like the Remington #11 will often plug the hole. Have fun.

[Ifishsum]

FWIW, CCI #11 magnum caps have worked well for my TC hawken, I've only got a little over 100 rounds fired in it but so far no misfires or hangfires. I've only loaded it with Pyrodex, both P and RS. A friend of mine with the same gun has the same experience, the only misfire he had was when he dryballed it the other day :D

[Wild Bill Bucks]

About 4 or 5 years ago, I was at a hunting camp with 9 other guys, only two of us were using primers. Everyone else was using caps. It was one of those days opening morning, that the rain just wouldn't let up, and everyone got good and soaked throughout the day.

That evening we decided to shoot our guns and clean them up good before going to bed, and even though everyone was using all kinds of homemade, keep your powder dry gizmos, the only two rifles that went off were mine and the other fellow shooting primers. The other 7 hunters spent the best part of an hour pulling balls, and packing dry powder in their rifles through the nipple, trying to get their load out. All the rifles were side locks, and everyone who owns one knows what a hassle it is removing a wet charge.

I guess thats what convinced me, to stay with my primers.

[Sarge]

Hmmm... I've been shooting caplock for 36 years and I've never had to pull a ball. I'm not quite sure what I'm doing 'right' but after reading that I'm sure as heck not gonna change anything I am doing.;)

[dstorm1911]

I convert all mine right off the bat...... its much easier to handle the larger musket caps especially with cold fingers....

[backyardbeagler]

I have the kit that lets me shoot the small rifle primers on my old renegade and I have used it for years. I was wanting to get this for a white mountain but I cant seem to find it anywhere could someone post a link or tell me where I could order this? Thanks.

[Hawg Haggen]

I started shooting bp 39, almost 40 years ago. I've been using Pyrodex(mostly RS) ever since bp got hard to get. I've never had an ignition problem with it in any weather and I use standard caps. The only thing I use musket caps on is a musket. For cold fingers get a capper.:D

[Smokin_Gun]

I tried the musket caps and my gun would not pop the caps every time.The hammer spring was not strong enough.

Hey K.A.T. I got an 1863 Remington Zouave that'll pop them Musket caps for ya...:)

SG

[shortwave]

Same here Hawg. I learned a very valuable lesson years ago. I was about 12-13 yrs old, had a brand new T/C Hawkins-50 cal. Hunted with dad in pouring rain for 3-4 days in a row. Every night dad told me I`d better fire charge but I didn`t. Watched a monster buck walk straight down a revene towards me. When buck turned sideways(at about 20yds out) I pulled trigger and only cap went off and so did buck. Dad deing only about 50yds up the revene from me watched as I raised that rifle and was going to wrap it around the tree I was perched beside. He started hollering and that stopped me. Still yet today, in damp weather,if I use that same rifle(my favorite), new charge and #11 cap every morning with tape or finger tip of rubber glove over bore. Weather dictates whether I discharge at night but one thing I`ll always do no matter if I`m hunting with a #11 perc.,musket cap or 209 primer, when the equipment goes outside it doesn`t come back in warm house till season`s over. It works for me.

[Raider2000]

I've only used Musket caps in my Navy Arms Zouave "that I used to have" in everything else I use Remington #11 caps.

My little CVA Bobcat .50 shoots pretty well but when I experimented with 777 FFF I would occasionally get misfires till I learned how to load 777 FFF properly, now every time I load it with anything but Pyrodex RS "it doesn't like the larger granules in it's smallish flash channel" it goes BOOM when I squeeze the trigger.

I've learned from my N-SSA days that FFFG was the way to go, cleaner burning than FFG & a bit more accurate at the range & in keeping that tradition for my hunting rifles & ofcorse my revolvers I rarely have an ignition problem unless I did something wrong in my process of loading, the same goes for Pyrodex P, I've had very reliable ignition with Pyrodex P even in very damp weather while hunting.

I take my rifles that I plan to hunt with & swab them with 91% rubbing alcohol to get any moisture & oils out then dry patches "I cheat & use my Bore Scope to make sure that I did get everything dry before I pour any powder in the muzzle."
Pour my measured amount of powder then I'll bump the side of the barrel a couple of times to settle the powder into the firing chamber, my PRB home then I'll swab the bore above the PRB with a Crisco lubed patch "not a lot goes onto the bore but enough to keep from any moisture from attacking the bore" then a strip of Electrical tape over the muzzle to help keep moisture & junk out of the bore "seems t help."
While the rifle is loaded I'll keep either my rubber vacuum cap onto the nipple or a #11 Remington cap in place with some bees wax surrounding the two, but never do I not have something over the nipple that'll allow moisture into that area.

I've had my rifle soaking wet, cold enough to see sweat freeze on the outside & once when I had taken it in to shoot at the range the next day sweat all over the outside of the barrel but "knock on wood" I have yet to have a misfire or hangfire since I started doing what I do during the loading process &/or daily routines while they are loaded.

BTW I've had my C&B revolvers at one time or another loaded for up to a year & would get caught in the rain with them on my side, take them in & out in the coldest wettest days to check traps or do some scouting & have never left any of them in the truck because it's cold out but in the 25+ years of doing so have never had one not fire it's 5 chambers as reliably & with the same authority as if I had loaded it that day, I think my success is from what I do in the loading process, & what I do to help prevent moisture from getting into the loaded chambers or bore of the loaded weapon.

[Pahoo]

Yankee:
All of the advantages listed for musket primers echoe my experience. There are really no disadvantages to the musket primers as compared to the standard #11 and even some over the 209. Two of my hunters have been converted and the only other one I trust more would be the one that Wild Bill mentioned for it's weather resistant quailties. I certainly would recommend this conversion for your hunter. As stated, your rifles performance will change some so once again, range time is in order but that's not too bad, is it ?? ;)




Be Safe !!!

[K.A.T.]

O.K. Smooookin send that baby to me. Hee Hee!

[backyardbeagler]

I absolutely love the one that I have on the Renegade thats why I want to convert the White Mountain over to it also. I saw these on another post and was wandering if they are the same thing?
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0012627210270a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntt=nipple&Ntk=Products&sort=all&Go.y=13&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&_D%3Asort=+&Nty=1&hasJS=true&Go.x=24&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form1&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0012627210268a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntt=nipple&Ntk=Products&sort=all&Go.y=13&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&_D%3Asort=+&Nty=1&hasJS=true&Go.x=24&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form1&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

A real pic would tell me for sure if its what I want but as of now its the closest that I have found.

[arcticap]

There's the Magspark ignition device that uses a #209 shotshell primer, but check to see if an adaptor is needed to fit TC's 1/4" X 28 threads:

http://www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/pl-spark-start.html

TC makes musket cap nipples and so does Bloomquist:

http://blomquistpercussionworks.com/products.html

[Hawg Haggen]

I can understand using musket caps and maybe it's just me but IMHO if you're going to use 209 primers you might just as well get an inline cuz you've left tradition bleedin in the mud.

[Pahoo]

I absolutely love the one that I have on the Renegade thats why I want to convert the White Mountain over to it also. I saw these on another post and was wandering if they are the same thing?
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...set=ISO-8859-1

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...set=ISO-8859-1


No, these are for a standard #11 and will not fit the T.C. rifles because they are metric. T.C. lists one for the musket primer and their rifles. I'm sure you can get them other places. Now Articap lists another style that uses a 209. I think there might be a misprint as I do not see a way you can fit a 209 and it's housing, onto a T.C. Hawken model. The ones I'm familiar with accomodate a pistol or rifle primer. The T.C. cat # for the musket primer is 7252.
Stick with your original plan of the musket primer.

Be Safe !!!