What do you do if there is unsafe behavior on the range?

[Doug.38PR]

I know, the obvious answer to above said question by itself is "tell the range officer" or "owner" and he will come handle it.

BUT, this weekend, I drove 4 hours up to NE Texas to shoot with some people out on some property. It wasn't a gun range, we were just shooting at some clay disks leaning upward on the ground on a hillside. There was nobody officially in charge there. There were about 10 of us standing around, about 6 of us taking turns shooting.
Then another car of guys pulls up next to mine. The two men get out and they are other guests attending the party who have just arrived to shoot. The driver gets out, introduces himself, opens his SUV gate, reaches in and pulls out his XD 9mm. He walks up to everybody TWIRLING HIS GUN ON HIS INDEX FINGER :eek: like a cowbody WHILE FACING AND TALKING TO US :eek::eek:and then racks on in the chamber and starts popping away down range.
A few minutes later he asked if he could shoot my AR. I loaded a magazine up for him, he turned and started to shoot. There was already one or two other guys on the firingline (well there really was no official firingline), but he was shooting from behind them. They were to his right and left but his firingline was behind theirs. I politely put my hand on his shoulder and said "why don't you move up so you are even with those two guys." He complied.
I wasn't in charge out there. Nobody was really, it was just a bunch of guys out there shooting. I arrived kinda late and just followed everybody's lead as to what to do and practiced good gun safety. I'm glad we all had a good time and I'm glad I was able to share my guns with others and they with me. Glad nobody was hurt. But what this comes down to is this, if nobody is in charge and somebody is behaving in an unsafe manner (unintentionally) what do you do? What should somebody do? Who should do it? Now the safety issues, fortunately, didn't go much beyond the two incidents I just described (except for the fact that most people out there didn't have eye protection and only a handful had ear protection save and except their hands over their ears). If you are there as a guest, it's not really your place to jump in and say "hey you know what we need to do this and that and this and that" and tell so and so how unsafe they are being.

[Phelptwan]

I leave...but that's just me.

[mikejonestkd]

1. There are people that will graciously accept you input on safety issues and comply to make the range experience better for everyone...They may complain about all the rules and rib on you about being a range nanny but they will comply with your requests.

2. Then there are people that won't even follow a few simple rules on a regular basis, and will tell you where to go when you make a reminder to them about safety.

After a day shooting with them, please decide for yourself if they are in the first group or the second group.

If they are in the first group then go shooting with them again and set a few ground rules before anyone starts shooting.

If they are in the second group then find new shooting partners.

Good luck and always act in the best interest of the safety of everyone, especially yourself!!!!

[Tripplethreat]

Best to report it to a rangemaster,caretaker or whoever is in charge first.
Not really a good idea to have a confrontation where everybody is armed and you don't know the other party.There have been days when my wife and I looked over the folks at the range and left waiting to return another day.
I am currently looking for some private land with a good backstop to lease by the year just to get away from the "club",with it's politics and occasional idiots on the range.
I take my shooting seriously and derive great pleasure from it at the same time. Just tired of dealing with dopes who ruin an otherwise good day with their ignorance.

[newarcher]

Well, see I am the type of person who doesn't have a problem stepping in to ensure everyone else's safety. But that's me.

I would just sort of make it into a joke so as not to seem pushy but I would get everyone to stop shooting and say "hey, I don't want to be THAT guy but I have seen a couple of things here that could get someone seriously hurt or killed. Can you guys please ensure that you do this and that .......".

I don't know many people who want to get shot so most of the time everyone will comply....they didn't mean to violate safety but sometimes the fun of the moment takes over. If someone gets pissy or continues, I will just say "hey folks, that's it for me....THIS GUY or GAL....is really making me nervous by doing such and such....I am out of here". That way everyone else is aware of who and what you are talking about.

New

[Manedwolf]

If he was already handling a handgun in an unsafe manner, why did you give him a rifle?

Not the best judgement there?

[Doug.38PR]

^
because 1) he asked and we were all there to have a good time and I didn't want to spoil it for anyone. He wasn't a dangerous pychopath or jerk. He was actually a very nice fellow who was just as enthusiastic and excited as the rest of us (just picked up some bad habits) 2) if he was handling MY gun I would and DID see to it that he handled it as I prefered.

I leave...but that's just me.

After driving 4 hours to be there?


Best to report it to a rangemaster,caretaker or whoever is in charge first.


That's the point, there really was nobody "in charge"

[newarcher]

Right, that's when I leave or take over.

Let me ask you this, would you drive 8 hours to avoid being shot and/or killed? Of course you would. So why would you stay and chance being shot by some idiot just because you drove 4 hours?

New

[dbgun]

Trust your instinct. If you didn't feel safe around these guys, say something firm, but friendly. Maybe one of the other guys was feeling the same way. If anyone gave you a hard time about your concerns, I'd leave. Why compromise your rules about firearm safety for someone you, who isn't considerate. I know, it would make for a long po'd (4 hr.) ride home. Just my 2-cents.

[Doug.38PR]

Okay, let me explain the situation in detail.

A friend of mine from church is about to get married. I'm not oging to be able to come to the wedding as it is out of state. He was being thrown a batchelor party up at this property all weekend. I wasn't able to come for the weekend, just the afternoon on saturday. I brought all my guns and got there as they were walking down to the shooting area on the property. I was invited as a guest to celebrate and congradulate him.
This one person comes up and does something flippant and careless. We are all having a good time at this point. I am not in charge. I am a guest. Person in question has made one move that made me uncomfortable, I don't even know if anyone else noticed it in all the excitement and conversation out there among 10+ men. Person in question is not a bad guy, he seems a very friendly sort who is just as enthusiastic and glad to be there as the rest of us.
Having said all that, if any of y'all were in my place, would y'all consider jumping in and inturrupting everything and pointing out what this guy did wrong and/or packing up right after getting there and leaving a considerate and polite thing to do?

[MikeWrite]

I didn't want to spoil it for anyone

The day (and the wedding) would probably have really been spoiled if someone had been shot at the bachelor party.

I would have left, and have under somewhat similar circumstances.

[Musketeer]

Right, that's when I leave or take over.

Let me ask you this, would you drive 8 hours to avoid being shot and/or killed? Of course you would. So why would you stay and chance being shot by some idiot just because you drove 4 hours?



Exactly. I will politiley ask the first time but in the situation you were in if compliance was not given I would be out of there. You have a moron who started the day by twirling his XD on his finger... there is little chance it is going to get better from there.

[Musketeer]

This one person comes up and does something flippant and careless.
...
Person in question has made one move that made me uncomfortable, I don't even know if anyone else noticed it in all the excitement and conversation out there among 10+ men.
...
Having said all that, if any of y'all were in my place, would y'all consider jumping in and inturrupting everything and pointing out what this guy did wrong and/or packing up right after getting there and leaving a considerate and polite thing to do?


First he did at least TWO things by your own account. The finger twirl and his handling of the AR. How many more there were that you did not see one can only guess.

There is no need to shut down everyone's fun for one ignorant shooter. Talk to him directly. If he does not listen then leave and let them know why you are leaving. You are not ruining the fun, you are keeping yourself from at the worst being shot. If anyone there cannot see the problem and agree with you on it they are equally as stupid as the culprit.

I cannot believe this is even a point of discussion. Since when did gun safety rules get put on hold if it meant ruining somebody's fun?

Here is a good question... seeing as this was a quasi bachelor party and this guy was already a gun handling disaster do you think he had a beer or two already?

[Doug.38PR]

^
beer? Hadn't thought of that. I kinda doubt it since he had just arrived.


Anyway, it's not a question of whether or someone having a good time should trump safety rules, it's a question of how to handle it without leaving or making yourself intrusive and presumptuous in a place where you have no authority and are in fact a guest

[Dannavy85]

This is asking for an accident.

[Yankee Doodle]

First, I am the range-master at my club's range. If this were to happen at my range, and the shooter is a non-member paying customer, he/she would be ordered to leave the club property immediately, and be placed on our "refuse entry" list. If a club member, he would be brought up before the board of directors to answer a charge of "dangerous conduct". Big fine when convicted.

If I were at another shooting range, I pack up my stuff and leave. If asked why I am leaving, I explain my reasons without lecturing. I just leave. Been shot once, (military) didn't like it, and don't expect to like it any better if it should happen again. If you choose to hang around, that's your choice.
I'm outta there.

[newarcher]

IMHO, no social details can explain away a dangerous situation.

Like I said, I am direct and the first time he twirled the gun would have evolked a strong reaction from me. Just no excuse. A firm but nice "wow hey don't be twirling a gun like that, it's a good way to get someone shot".

If I didn't want to intervene, I would have told the groom to be "Hey, I am going back up there for safety".

I am not going to let fear of offending someone take my life. No, it is going to be the angry husband of some smoking hot brunette that takes it...as it should be! :D

New

[JunyTuck]

Bottom line is you leave,period, end of discussion!! No social situation is worth getting shot by an idiot!

[tony pasley]

I either step up and get the ranges safe or I step out and leave the range area no matter 4 mins 4 hours or 40 hours travel. Bullets passing thru body parts are no way to enjoy the day not to mention the next few weeks.

[Double Naught Spy]

After driving 4 hours to be there?

Yes, you leave even after driving 4 hours to get there because getting shot by some idiot who can't or won't maintain muzzle discipline isn't a good thing.

Of course if the guy did accidentally shoot you, it would have been one of those things you should have seen coming.

He walks up to everybody TWIRLING HIS GUN ON HIS INDEX FINGER like a cowbody WHILE FACING AND TALKING TO US and then racks on in the chamber and starts popping away down range.
A few minutes later he asked if he could shoot my AR. I loaded a magazine up for him, he turned and started to shoot.

Why would you give a loaded AR15 to a person who obviously does not understand gun safety?

[CyberSEAL]

I thought the obvious answer was to leave.

[gyp_c2]

...I would say, HEY! If you kill me screwin' around like that, I'll never speak to you again...
He'll either get it, or not...If not...I'd have to seriously consider leaving the area...I damn sure wouldn't leave my friends party without an explanation though...I'd just be up front about the whole thing...just me, but if I cared enough to be there, I'd find a way to be safe and stay for the rest of the party...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

[mattro]

I would not and will not participate in a group that does not observe the 4 safety rules. Straighten the group out, or leave.

It's definetly easier said than done, but necessary.

It would be horrible to know better, not say anything, then something really bad happen.

I would have immediately corrected (politely) the careless person. In the group of guys I shoot with, it is well known that anyone that sees anything unsafe has the responsibility to bring it to the perps attention.

[2transams]

Knowing beforehand that a bunch of guys that I don't know will be there shooting guns,I'd tell the host that I will come to the party as long as I get to be the Safety Nazi. That way they can expect me to be a spoil-sport.

Now if I see someone in my group acting in an unsafe manner,I don't care who I tick off to save my behind from getting shot but I would try to be discreet about it.

[Magdaddy]

Maybe he was just ignorant and has never had anyone to show him Range ettiquette or firearms safety. Alot of us take for granted that we grew up shooting, some folks are kinda left on their own to learn and we need to help them learn the proper way to behave at the range or anytime they pick up a firearm. Take em aside and say very politely, this is the way we conduct business here, follow these rules to the letter.... please. Remember discipline in private and praise in public. Most will glad for the help, and those who choose not to play safe, we ask to leave or TAR AND FEATHER.

[mattro]

good points Magdaddy!

I grew up shooting. Living out in the country I walked around and shot everything often, but was never taught any safety rules.

It was not until I got my kids in 4H shooting sports that I learned there was organized safety rules. What a revelation!!

Alot of people out there, including people that grew up around guns, have not been taught about safety. Any reasonable person will welcome learning the safety rules. If they don't - goodbye...

[Rmstn1580]

I would leave. Let him discharge into one of his buddies :D If you tell him how to handle his guns he might get mad :) Just leave and let him blow his foot off or something.

[workinwifdakids]

I'd say in a calm fashion, "Wow! You have a <insert firearm here>? I've been looking at those. Mind if I take a look?"

Then, after looking at it enviously (even if you have two already), hand it back to him and say, "Well, we wanted to stay for a while longer, but our rule is that if we're shooting with people we don't know, there has to be a rangemaster. If you're not cool with that, we'll shove off, and no harm no foul. On the other hand, we'd like to stay, but we need a rangemaster. Are you okay with that?"

That way, you allow him to be in charge, and he's actually forced to make the decision you wanted anyway. Then, you walk over and lay out some rope as the firing line, and -- the rest is safe history.

[chrisandclauida2]

in your situation you ask once then leave. my life is too short.

as for at the range you are coverd probably 10 time an hour. dont believe me? stand back and watch the other shooters. half of them think they know everything and half the other half have no business being in the same room as a weapon.

i watched one day and was shocked at haw many people point their weapons down the firing line when dropping a mag loading a mag or dumping a cylinder. they worst are those who draw from a holster with poor prior training. they point the barrell behind them across their own bodies or to one side or the other. they have no clue they are doing it as they never really trained on presentations and dry firing in a mirror.

as i said in another thread nearly 75 percent of folks in their first i gotta draw and shoot or I'm dead situation end up shoot themselves in the leg foot hip belly or usually the ground in front of them before they get the weapon pointed at their target. their brains are screaming point and shoot and their finger complies. ofcourse most dont shoot them selves but lots shoot the ground.

now go back to the people who draw and point their weapon any which way but the right way and just think what will happen in a i gotta shoot now or die situation.

scary very scary.

[Groundhog]

Anyway, it's not a question of whether or someone having a good time should trump safety rules, it's a question of how to handle it without leaving or making yourself intrusive and presumptuous in a place where you have no authority and are in fact a guest

Sometimes you don't get to interact in a situation like this in a way that turns out pleasent. Sometimes you do. I think it's probably about 75% how you handle it and about 25% how they receive it.

workinwifdakids said:

I'd say in a calm fashion, "Wow! You have a <insert firearm here>? I've been looking at those. Mind if I take a look?"

Then, after looking at it enviously (even if you have two already), hand it back to him and say, "Well, we wanted to stay for a while longer, but our rule is that if we're shooting with people we don't know, there has to be a rangemaster. If you're not cool with that, we'll shove off, and no harm no foul. On the other hand, we'd like to stay, but we need a rangemaster. Are you okay with that?"

That way, you allow him to be in charge, and he's actually forced to make the decision you wanted anyway. Then, you walk over and lay out some rope as the firing line, and -- the rest is safe history.

This is probably about the slickest advice I've seen here. The only problem would be if you think of it in time!:eek: