Carrying! A personal thing! [Archive]

JunyTuck

July 16, 2007, 06:25 PM

We live in Texas and both my wife and I have CCL's. We are in our 60's so no commando aspirations, just want to protect ourselves. Tried S&W snubbies,the semi-auto's in various caliber's designed for concealed carry, and a variety of holsters that can be attached to the torso in every way imaginal. Everything we tried made us feel uncomfortable in daily life or too conspicuous for our lifestyle.
Then I found the Seecamp 32 and the NAA 32. Both are perfect for us. Easily fits in a purse or pants pocket. May not meet the ballistic's criteria for many, but gives us the peace of mind that we have a way to defend ourselves. Isn't that what it's all about?

Rmstn1580

July 16, 2007, 06:28 PM

As long it can end the life of a thug ;)

oldbillthundercheif

July 16, 2007, 06:32 PM

A .32 sure beats a sharp stick. It'll do.

xrocket

July 16, 2007, 06:34 PM

I CC in Texas too and carry a Seecamp .32. My wife will get the .32 when my ordered Seecamp .380 comes in. She shoots it now and is her bedside defense.

I do carry a .45 in the truck and it also sits on my bedside. The great thing about the Seecamp is I now carry full time where I didn't always with the .45.

We both have a much better peace of mind.

Good shooting

Playboypenguin

July 16, 2007, 06:35 PM

Then I found the Seecamp 32 and the NAA 32. Both are perfect for us. Easily fits in a purse or pants pocket. May not meet the ballistic's criteria for many, but gives us the peace of mind that we have a way to defend ourselves. Isn't that what it's all about?
As far as alot of people in here are concenrned, you are preaching to the chior about the Seecamps and NAA Guardians. :)

I know some people would never consider carrying anything less than a .45acp but I always wonder what kind of trouble are these people planning on being in anyway? Especially when they get into carrying extra mags, accuracy at long distances, etc. Are they planning to ward of a personal attack by a common thug or have a stand off at the mall with a terrorist cell or something? :)

BikerRN

July 17, 2007, 02:27 AM

For me the .32 ACP would make a third or fourth gun. No disrespect meant, and it's your decision on what to carry. It's better to carry the little "mousegun" than nothing, and I wouldn't want to be shot with it.

Having been in two "Armed Encounters" I can personally testify to the fact that no gun, designed for CCW/Self Defense, is too big when the fecal matter hits the rotating oscilliator.

I carry an N-Frame Revolver with a 4" Barrel and a J-Frame as a BUG. To me a gun carried for self defense "should be comforting, not necessarilly comfortable." I think it was Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch that said that. If I don't have the wheelie on me it's a Glock 19 and the J-Frame and maybe a Kahr PM9 too.

Good luck and carry what you are comfortable with. We each have to make our own choices.

Biker

Double Naught Spy

July 17, 2007, 07:49 AM

If a .32 pocket gun gives you piece of mind, then you must live in a really safe place or expect your attackers to be hemophiliacs. A .32 may beat a sharp stick, or maybe not, but you probably won't be fighting sharp sticks. The question you may want to ask is whether or not you can handle a more significant caliber for concealed carry.

Carrying for piece of mind is a bit of an illusion as piece of mind won't trump reality.

xrocket

July 17, 2007, 09:50 AM

D N Spy ... really? I don't think so. I stated what is right for me and I did not in any way belittle anyone else for their choice of caliber when it comes to CC.

I did notice that you did not provide your own background or experience when it comes to CC. I would be interested in your opinion based upon your own experience.

Care to enlighten us?

Dwight55

July 17, 2007, 05:33 PM

Yes, . . . carrying is totally a personal thing.

Sometimes I only carry a Bersa .380, . . . or a Colt .38 Det Spec, . . . instead of my 1911. And yes, . . . I do feel a bit better when I have my 1911, 8+1 and two spare mags, . . . but push-come-shove, . . . my son's Browning Buckmark with 10+1 and a backup mag is in itself a formidable weapon system in the right hands.

Carry what you can use comfortably, . . . what you WILL CARRY, . . . and hit what you shoot at. That is the bottom line, I believe.

May God bless,
Dwight

Mannlicher

July 17, 2007, 05:34 PM

May not meet the ballistic's criteria for many, but gives us the peace of mind that we have a way to defend ourselves. Isn't that what it's all about?

Yeah, feeling warm and fuzzy is what its all about................

threegun

July 17, 2007, 05:58 PM

Xrocket, If trouble was coming at you right now. No way to escape or defuse. It is either stop the threat or be stopped. You have your seecamp .32 or a 9mm of your choice sitting in front of you. What are you going to grab and why?

The answer to that question is why folks seem hostile when caliber wars start. We all know that the number one way to end a threat with a handgun is through blood loss. The larger and deeper the hole generally the more blood loss. Still many carry backup calibers as primary and they feel safe. Others simply want to remind them that their choice is puny compared to other calibers. Handgun calibers are not effective man stoppers so why go to the weaker side of the already weak caliber spectrum? Either way don't get upset we are only debating.

JunyTuck

July 17, 2007, 06:00 PM

Seems to me that 7 well placed shots from a .32 will do alot of damage!

xrocket

July 17, 2007, 06:24 PM

Spy, I'm not upset .... I just don't care your your belittling attitude. Besides, you ducked answering my question. You took your shot in an ambiguous manner and I'm interested in you clarifying your position. So tell us...

I would like to here more about your personal experience with sharp sticks and hemophiliacs Spy. Should be real interesting...

Playboypenguin

July 17, 2007, 06:37 PM

We all know that the number one way to end a threat with a handgun is through blood loss.
I will respectfully have to disagree with that statement (even though it does have some merit).

During all of my experiences as a soldier and an LEO I have never seen an advancing enemy stopped by "blood loss". I have seen many stopped by debilitaty and/or deadly wounds.

If a man charges at you with a bat and you give him a bloody wound he may well bleed out in a few moments but probably not before adrenaline allows him to beat your brains out. And when you get hit by a bat in the head it is not "blood loss" that you will die from either. Shoot that same attacker through his right eye or blow out his knees and he willbe more likely to stop.

It all comes down once again to shot placement.

Covert Mission

July 17, 2007, 07:48 PM

My $.02,

I have had this debate w/myself. I have resisted getting something like the .32s or other mouseguns. The smallest I've gone is an Airweight .38 S&W. for pocket carry. I do get intrigued at times with the Seecamp .380 (Rob Leatham carries one, I've heard, but haven't verified).

What I have learned is this: If I have an excuse to carry something smaller than my regular carry gun, the Glock 19 (or 1911 sometimes), I've copped out (i.e., gotten lazy) and resorted to the smaller gun. Then, I feel undergunned and guilty. I have never needed my G19, so in reality it's theoretical anyway. I compete in USPSA/IDPA with the G19 though, and I know what it will do in my hands.

The rule I use for the smaller or mouse guns and calibers is carry them when you don't think you'll need a gun. But who knows when that is? I have a great u/c shoulder rig for my Airweight that I can wear under a dress shirt and go undetected. Or, a pocket holster, for around the house and yard.

For that reason, I've disciplined myself to carry the Glock most of the time. Not that 9mm, or any handgun caliber short of 44 mag and up, is a real stopping caliber. In fact, I realize that 9mm is the conventionally accepted minimum for defensive calibers, but with my ability, premium ammo, and 14+16 rounds available, I am comfortable.

I wouldn't be comfortable making the .32 or .380 my main CCW caliber. The guns are too small for me to achieve what I consider proficient ability also. YMMV...your mileage may vary. It is better than nothing, a sharp stick, or even a knife (which I always have also), but I prefer something stronger, and the general belief is that the bigger the hole--and the more of them, well placed--the better. I feel best with my .45acp 1911, but it's the G19 that usually gets the call.

Be safe.

Wildalaska

July 17, 2007, 07:53 PM

Ive said it before and I'll say it again.

The average armed citizen under average circs doesnt need more.

and if you think a 32 wont hurt....

WildletmeshootyouinthefacewithoneAlaska

Glenn E. Meyer

July 17, 2007, 08:08 PM

If that is your purpose and it works - that's fine. I carry from a NAA 22 Mag to a 45 ACP. I accept that the former is less powerful than the latter. Dress determines what I can carry.

The hi cap gun vs. the little one - again this argument is trying to make a dichotomy out of a probability continuum.

Modal interactions are handled with the need for the hicap gun. So you carry the day most of the time. However, do you plan to meet the extreme end of the distribution as the mall shooter or a Columbine incident?

You choose your cut off vs. convenience of carry.

Covert Mission

July 17, 2007, 08:18 PM

Glenn,

I hear you, re: mode of dress.

It's hard to conceal in business dress, for example. My low profile shoulder rig works, as does pocket carry. The UCH from Blade-Tech, allowing you to tuck your shirt around the IWB rig, works too.

I have resorted in summer to a fanny pack for the G19 (Tommy's Original Gun Pack) which to the initiated might say "gun" but I've decided I don't care. I almost never see any doubletakes, and when I have, it's from cops. I'm legal so I don't worry...never even been asked but it's fine if I am. Some people might disagree with that strategy.

I AM intrigued by the Rohrbach 9mm (cq?), but they're pricey and maybe heavy in the recoil dept.

gunmetal

July 18, 2007, 12:40 AM

Playboypenguin:

I can't speak for threegun but I don't think he meant that causing blood loss is necessarily the BEST way to stop someone who's attacking you. Obviously CNS/brain shots would be more effective, but those are going to be less common and a lot harder to pull off consistently. Especially with handgun rounds which cause relatively little damage to the body, it's going to be hard to achieve rapid incapacitation unless you do get in a lucky/sk1lled CNS shot. Your most reliable avenue is going to be via blood loss by shots to vital areas.

Wildalaska:

I wouldn't want you to shoot me in the face with a BB gun precisely because it would hurt, but that doesn't make it a good self defense weapon.

There's obviously a continuum here on the scale of force and we all draw our own lines, but at some point there is a pretty big jump in effectiveness of the most commonly available calibers. IMO that line is around .38 Spl/9x19, but you are of course free to draw it for yourself wherever you want.

threegun

July 18, 2007, 06:21 AM

Gunmetal, Thanks for clarifying for me. What I meant is that with a handgun round (very weak compared to rifles) most people secum due to blood loss. Its hard to hit the central nervous system and hits to the hip or knees won't stop a man from shooting back. The easiest thus most likely area to hit (torso) generally incapacitates by pain and blood loss. Only blood loss can be counted on however.

Covert Mission, I have been carrying in a fanny pack for over a decade. In that time only one person has made my gun pack. That was a security guard (believe it or not) in a drivers license office. I had removed the gun though (left it in the car). He said to me is that a gun pack. I said yes sir it is. He said you can't have that in here. I said I can't have a gun pack with no gun in here. He said OH I'm sorry. I said its not legal to have a gun in here sir. He mumbled and walked away. Never asked to check nothing.

Now I have taken my pack to schools and many events were guns are not allowed and no officer has ever asked if I had a gun in it. They do check the pack at the door often during events but before going in no one notices. I was shocked. It has been a blessing especially in Florida's weather.

Double Naught Spy

July 18, 2007, 08:17 AM

Wow xrocket, that is great. You responded to me twice. I am honored.

When I carry small, it is a Kahr in 9mm for pocket carry. My normal carry is a full sized 1911.

If you feel belittled because I am not impressed with a .32 acp for self protection, then I apologize for touching on your insecurity.

9mm, .45 acp, .357, etc. are substantially bigger and more powerful calibers when fired out of proper length barrels for which they were designed and even then, they are not terrific performers. Take a .32 acp and fire it out of a cut down length gun like a Seecamp, and you aren't even getting full power out of the tinier round.

There are better carry options that come with similar and slightly larger guns.

Of course, Wildalaska is right....
The average armed citizen under average circs doesnt need more.

In fact, under average conditions, the average citizen won't be drawing and firing their gun in a conflict. Even if the gun is drawn, on average, it won't be fired.

Tanzer

July 18, 2007, 10:03 AM

Please let me weigh in. This is a hearty debate that happens about once a month on these forums. The .45 guys (I'm one of them) are already convinced that nothing less will do. The placement/confidence folks (who I have a lot of respect for) have their say, then things get ugly and the mods snuff the thread.
The title was "Carry! A Personal Thing!" let's leave this thread open to whether carry is a personal thing or not. Wait a day or two, and some new member will start a thread about handcannon vs. mousegun.
C'mon guys, I hate to see respectable members such as yourselves start chipping at each other about opinions that won't change.

junytuck, I've once in my life brandished a firearm thinking I may need to use it. It happened to be a .45 and the wide SS barrel against the blued finish has a formidable appearance. I also pulled it out confidently. Having tested it's damaging power on my private land I had no doubt what would happen to the BG should I pull the trigger (or sneeze for that matter), So not to sound like a toughguy, but I probably looked like I meant business pointing it at him, and he left the scene.
I agree that it is a personal thing. Are you looking for reassurance that your caliber is sufficient? If you are, I just bawled out some of my buddies for nothing. If you want someone to back you up about feeling safe because you feel it's enough, I'm with you.

Wildalaska

July 18, 2007, 10:15 AM

It happened to be a .45 and the wide SS barrel against the blued finish has a formidable appearance.

WildtimeforathreadAlaska

Playboypenguin

July 18, 2007, 12:48 PM

It happened to be a .45 and the wide SS barrel against the blued finish has a formidable appearance.
Intimidation is a possible factor when pulling a firearm in self defense. it could mean the difference between just pulling it and actually having to fire it. There was thread about that very topic awhile back.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229206&highlight=intimidation

A bigger barrel can be more frightening and make you rethink your actions.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21332&d=1164311868http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21331&d=1164311868

Wildalaska

July 18, 2007, 12:58 PM

Come on Playboy whats with the skewed photos...with the 32 you sensitive and with the 44 you look insane :)

WildcheckouttheyesAlaska

Playboypenguin

July 18, 2007, 01:05 PM

Come on Playboy whats with the skewed photos...with the 32 you sensitive and with the 44 you look insane
That is what I call my OPF..."Official Photo Face".

Every time I have ever had my picture taken for a state or federal ID that is what I end up looking like for some reason. :)

WhiteFeather93

July 18, 2007, 01:07 PM

Ha ha I have the same hat!
I think whats scary-er is seeing those big hollow points staring at you ready to back up their brother in a heart beat!

Back on topic I think if you are happy with a .32 than so be it. I mean it is Texas, if you get into a shoot I'm sure they'll be at least 5 other people jumping in at a moments notice. (Joking!)

Carry what you feel comfortable with. Let everything else happen when it does. Because no matter what you carry when its time....

Also situational arwareness plays a big role. If you are gonna play in the ghetto be prepared.

essexcounty

July 18, 2007, 01:16 PM

I don't think a .32ACP should be quickly dismissed. It certainly is a poor choice for an offensive weapon. The average civilian's encounter will be at close range and He needs a weapon that won't be left on the top of his dresser because it's a bother. It was a standard for decades in Europe and at one time saw use in large city police departments. Bridgeport, Conneticut comes to mind. A .32 and the right mindset is not a thing to be triffeled with. Essex

Playboypenguin

July 18, 2007, 01:22 PM

Also situational arwareness plays a big role. If you are gonna play in the ghetto be prepared.
I have tried to drill that into my partner's head for years. Things like being aware who is around if you get out of your car at a gas station, walking to the far outside of the sidewalk when you pass dark doorways or alley entrances, paying attention to what is behind you or around corners, etc.

These things help avoid bad guys. Also, just by being aware and looking alert you can make alot of bad guys think there are easier targets.

Tanzer

July 18, 2007, 04:01 PM

+1 Playboy, If you go to New York and stare up at the buildings some call you a tourist, others call you a victim. BTW - I for one was not looking at the hat until it got mentioned. Yikes!

WhiteFeather93

July 19, 2007, 09:41 AM

I think situational awareness goes much farther than most people think.

Things like watching a blind side and alleys. But also demography plays a big role as to how I pack and dress.

City, Country, region, laws. These should all fall under situation awareness. If you are strolling about a rural area there is no need to be on defcon 3 and have three spare mags a bowie knife and a back up.
A .32ACP in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing can mean the difference between acceptable and not.

cpaspr

July 19, 2007, 04:22 PM

Wildalaska has access to just about anything he might want, but in the one encounter that I'm aware of where he needed a gun, it was a .32 ACP that saved the day. As in most instances, no shots were needed. Just the presentation of the gun was sufficient.

And while he took a lot of guff from several people on this board about the size of gun he was carrying, the important thing to remember is that the only thing that saved his butt was that he had a gun. A mousegun, but a gun none-the-less.

I have access to larger guns as well, but when I carry it's usually a .380 Sig. Why? Because it carries well and I can hit what I aim at. That is what is important. That you will carry it and that you can hit what you aim at. I'd rather be able to spit and hit than have to spray and pray.

Wildalaska

July 19, 2007, 06:13 PM

Yeah and at that time I wished I had my M1A :)

WildwithabayonetAlaska

Double Naught Spy

July 19, 2007, 06:57 PM

Wildalaska has access to just about anything he might want, but in the one encounter that I'm aware of where he needed a gun, it was a .32 ACP that saved the day. As in most instances, no shots were needed. Just the presentation of the gun was sufficient.

Right, so that this is understood, the fact that it was a .32 acp did nothing. Since no shots were fired, an empty gun would have sufficed. More often than not, since no shots are fired, empty guns would work most of the time, but as with a tiny, underpowered caliber fired from a very short barrel, you don't want to have to count on it to save your life.

Heck, you want to talk about intimidation, I have a wonderful accounting from Forestburg, Texas in the 1860/70s or so where a man, his wife, daughters, and daughters' friends held of an Indian raiding party with a single shot rifle and broom handles stuck out the windows. No shots were fired.

Wildalaska

July 19, 2007, 07:16 PM

but as with a tiny, underpowered caliber fired from a very short barrel, you don't want to have to count on it to save your life.

Shot placement baby.

a.32 in the nose is better than a 45 in the fleshy part of an upper arm :)

WildnoseshotAlaska

cpaspr

July 19, 2007, 07:29 PM

WA had the .32 ACP and was capable of putting the bullets where he wanted if he needed to. A gun that he had and could place his shots with was better than one he didn't have, even if he could place his shots even better with that one that he wasn't carrying.

The original poster and his wife have chosen to carry .32 ACP mouseguns. The guns are small enough that they will carry them. The guns are from reputable manufacturers. If they are proficient with these weapons, then more power to them. May they never truly need them, but if they do, they'll be confident in their abilities to use them.

Like WA said, at the time, he would have preferred his Garand. But that isn't what he had with him. But he did know that if he needed to use the little gun, he could hit what he aimed at.

As has been said many times and in many ways (so I'll just tweak it one more time) "A mousegun you have with you is better than the machine gun you left at home."
______________________

as with a tiny, underpowered caliber fired from a very short barrel, you don't want to have to count on it to save your life You don't really want to be in a position to where your life is in danger in the first place. It all boils down to having a gun, any gun, on the very rare occasion that you need one. Second rule of gun fighting for when the first rule gets violated - bring a gun. (First rule being: don't be there in the first place.) Corollary to second rule - know how to use it.

meanoldman

July 19, 2007, 07:57 PM

I'm a 1911 guy. Always have been. Live in Texas and in the summers I end up carrying a Seacamp more than my Wilson. It's just too damn hot. I have a PM9 that I use if I feel I am going someplace dangerous (like 6th street). I would rather have the Seacamp in my pocket than nothing at all and I don't wear enough clothes sometimes to make it worth my while to carry a full size. Just my 2 cents.

tshadow6

July 19, 2007, 08:07 PM

Unless one has any actual combat experience, one should not belittle another's carry choice. A .32 in your pocket trumps a .45 in the gun safe.

ShootemDown

July 19, 2007, 08:28 PM

I'm happy with a .32 acp in the pants pocket.

If I know there is danger, I will be better armed, but If I'm not expecting anything, then the 32 is fine..

Wildalaska

July 19, 2007, 08:47 PM

If I know there is danger, I will be better armed

If you know you will be in dangert...dont go...:)

WildcowardslivetofightanotherdayAlaska

rantingredneck

July 19, 2007, 09:13 PM

I carry a .45ACP 90% of the time. The other 10% is a .32NAA in the pocket and the .45 in the truck.

I shoot my .32NAA enough that I know what I can do with it at reasonable self defense ranges. If that little .32 caliber bore doesn't scare them off then the six rounds in the chest will certainly bloody their wardrobe, muss their hair, and generally ruin their day.

I'm with WA on his post above too. If you know you're going into harms way, don't go.

Double Naught Spy

July 24, 2007, 07:44 AM

Shot placement baby.

a.32 in the nose is better than a 45 in the fleshy part of an upper arm

So true, and yet few people are able to place well aimed shots under stress using guns with good sights with a decent sight radius and so I see the likelihood of reliably being able to place surgical precision shots with tiny guns (usually with fairly crappy sights).

But since head shots with a .32 are what we are talking about, there is a nifty story here...
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39634&highlight=pawn+sword

I corresponded with Dave Philips at one point. As I recall, one of those four shots did manage to travel through an eye, only one of the four fired at about arm's length.

Unless one has any actual combat experience, one should not belittle another's carry choice. A .32 in your pocket trumps a .45 in the gun safe.

While 100%, why carry a .32 instead of a .45 if you have the ability to carry a .45?

So a .32 in the pocket beats a .45 in the safe. From the story above, a .32 in the pocket beats a Glock on the desk. Of course, that is one of those "better than nothing" logic ideas because you are comparing what you have against that which you don't have access, or rather, nothing. Comparison against nothing makes everything that isn't nothing appear better than nothing. So, bad body odor beats a .45 in the safe, but do you want to count on body odor for protection? Probably not. A Daisy Red Rider single cock BB gun is better than a .45 in the safe.

In Dave's case, a Glock on the hip would have beat a .32 in the pocket, but he made his decision to keep the Glock on the desk, forgot about the .32 in his pocket while being run through and beat, recalling simply that he could not get to his Glock, then remembered the .32.

threegun

July 24, 2007, 08:45 AM

So true, and yet few people are able to place well aimed shots under stress using guns with good sights with a decent sight radius and so I see the likelihood of reliably being able to place surgical precision shots with tiny guns (usually with fairly crappy sights).

Lets go with the least powerful round which requires precise shot placement into an event which reduces precision shooting abilities...........that sound smart to me.

People have made the decision to carry. That usually means they see a potential to have to defend themselves. They then decide to carry the smallest because larger guns are harder to carry. Kinda seems foolish to see the need for a gun, understand the limitations of smaller calibers, realize that stress reduces precision, and still carry small.

If its all you can carry yes its better than no gun. I live in Florida (shorts and T-shirt heaven) and still carry a Glock 23 with a spare mag. I feel many try to justify carrying smaller either by saying they can't conceal bigger or believing that they are as well armed as possible with a mousegun.

Trip20

July 24, 2007, 08:47 AM

Xrocket, If trouble was coming at you right now. No way to escape or defuse. It is either stop the threat or be stopped. You have your seecamp .32 or a 9mm of your choice sitting in front of you. What are you going to grab and why?

That would be a great poll even though I think we can all foresee the outcome of such a poll. I also think we can all guess at the reasons why that outcome is so easily foreseeable.

That's why I find it odd that those who carry smaller rounds have a hard time admitting that they are making a significant concession.

one should not belittle another's carry choice.

I really do not believe this is about belittling one's choice of carry. It's not the choice that's the problem, it's the irrelevant justifications used to make a choice appear just as good as any other.

"A .32 in the pocket beats an Abrams tank in the driveway."

"Most often no shots are fired so a .32acp will work just as well as a .45acp"

And someone’s bound to swing in here sooner or later for the inevitable:
"The .22lr has taken more lives than X, Y, and Z calibers put together."

Ad infinitum, and all irrelevant to the fact that the smaller calibers are poorer performers. And selecting one for whatever reason is a compromise, period.

I can completely understand choosing a smaller weapon in a smaller caliber due to the clothes one is wearing, for comfort, or for a million other reasons. But one loses me when one begins to justify their choice with poor rational.

Playboypenguin

July 24, 2007, 01:01 PM

Unless one has any actual combat experience, one should not belittle another's carry choice
Oh cool!!! Doe sthat mean I have carte blanch to insult peoples firearms? Look out Glock carriers. :p

Freetacos

July 24, 2007, 01:12 PM

I beleive the CIA found the .32 acp useful as did other secret organizations. I've seen many security videos where thugs run like mice when they so even think their victim is pulling a gun. Although you must be prepared to use it if you are going to pull it.

Whirlwind06

July 24, 2007, 03:44 PM

I have had this debate w/myself. I have resisted getting something like the .32s or other mouseguns. The smallest I've gone is an Airweight .38 S&W. for pocket carry. I do get intrigued at times with the Seecamp .380 (Rob Leatham carries one, I've heard, but haven't verified).

What I have learned is this: If I have an excuse to carry something smaller than my regular carry gun, the Glock 19 (or 1911 sometimes), I've copped out (i.e., gotten lazy) and resorted to the smaller gun. Then, I feel undergunned and guilty. I have never needed my G19, so in reality it's theoretical anyway. I compete in USPSA/IDPA with the G19 though, and I know what it will do in my hands.

I know this happened to me.
Had a KT .32 that I ended up carrying much more than I wanted to.
Sold it and bought the KT P11. That is now the gun I carry when I don't need a gun.

threegun

July 25, 2007, 05:39 AM

Freetacos,

I beleive the CIA found the .32 acp useful as did other secret organizations. I've seen many security videos where thugs run like mice when they so even think their victim is pulling a gun.

Trip20 said it best....Ad infinitum, and all irrelevant to the fact that the smaller calibers are poorer performers. And selecting one for whatever reason is a compromise, period.

Usefulness is irrelevant in performance.

Tanzer

July 25, 2007, 09:23 AM

I've been leaving this alone, but time to chime in. Here in RI, my wife was denied her CWP because I already have one. That may sound insane to many of you, but if you lived here, it wouldn't. Having one is a big deal here, they're as rare as vegetarians at a Texas BBQ.
What she qualified for (you're qualified by caliber), and was ready to use, was a .32 - It was the largest caliber she was comfortable enough with to shoot for qualification score (borrowed the instructor's w/ longer barrel - never seen one so big before - would have carried a kel-tec).
I have a thread in the archive; "Had to Brandish it" - as it turned out, she had grabbed it during the incident since I use it for BUG/Deep concealment, and it was in the car. She made it very clear to me that it was ready to go and that having it helped her. It made her concentrate on the situation and afforded her "some" comfort. What a surprise that nut would have gotten if for any reason he had gotten past me and to the car - a .32 Hydrashock at point blank. Having that mousegun brought her attention to her training, and I dare say she did well. I wish I knew I had backup all the time.
When she works late, I pick her up via tender (we're at mooring in the harbor) at the marina dock after midnight. I am armed, I wish she could have her .32 at the ready, she is a trained and capable backup. If it weren't for awkward laws... oh well, been there already.

Whirlwind06

July 25, 2007, 09:56 AM

The Tourist

July 25, 2007, 10:27 AM

"May not meet the ballistic's criteria for many"

I'm not far from your age, I'm 57, and I've learned a few wrinkles about making life's choices.

First, go see Jack Nickelson's speech to Dennis Hopper in "Easy Rider." It says a lot about using your own choices and freedoms--and how those choices will be perceived by people, and unfortunately, your friends.

Having said that, I'm against any activity, be that a hobby, belief, diet or discipline, where a slavish attitude becomes the driving force.

You have made a choice which enhances your life. This is a personal decision and one that should not tolerate nagging. Most people don't know the difference between fighting with guns and fighting tooth decay. Do your own research, and live by your own codes.

The biggest problem I have with advice is sifting out the BS.