THIS is how stupid people can be in a home invasion...

[Manedwolf]

Man shot in home invasion

By GARRY RAYNO
New Hampshire Union Leader Staff
12 hours ago

ALSTEAD – Scott Brown said he and his girlfriend were asleep early yesterday in their River Street home when he heard the loud jingle of bells attached to their front door and a the repeated thud of the door being kicked. When he responded by cautiously opening the door, he said, he suddenly found himself shot in the leg by a masked intruder.

Brown, 22, spoke yesterday afternoon with the New Hampshire Sunday News by phone from his bed at Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center, where he was being treated for his wound, which may require surgery.

Brown, who said he moved in with his girlfriend about a month ago, said his assailant had another man with him, though he never saw the second intruder.

"I have no clue who they were," he said.

A State Police press release describes the shooting suspect as a white male between 5 feet 10 inches and 6 feet tall, with a slim build. Brown told State Police his assailant was entirely dressed in black.

Recounting the moments after he awoke, Brown said, "I waited for a second and then got up real slow and slowly opened door. When I opened the door, a guy in a mask shot me in leg."

:eek: :confused:

Opened the door.

Unarmed.

[armoredman]

"Momma always said stupid is as stupid does."

[The Tourist]

As a home owner, having the 'deep pockets' of insurance, I always worry about how a lawyer might view my actions. The area where I live isn't going to be a big help either. My 'peers' are most likely to be university liberals.

Had the guy been me, I would have dialed 911 first--but not for the main reason you might think. I would do this to document the time line of events.

It could prove that as I made the call the danger was still outside and I had done nothing to create a deadly situation. It would also document that I had used a proper 'escalation of force' in trying to stem the attack. I would even announce that I was armed.

I think we all know how this was going to turn out. The door would fly off the hinges, some very desperate men would enter my dwelling and from a very weird angle, blinding light would emit from a Surefire 6P flashlight with the purple-band 65 replacement bulb, followed by Gold-Dots from the flavor of the day .40 SW I had.

Of course, I would then be up all night answering questions and having my firearm and flashlight taken as evidence. My home would be stomped into a qualified mess. I would make appointments for my wife and myelf with doctors (both of the physical and mental variety) to help heal the debilitating problems we were sure to have. I would have to spend a large sum of money securing an attorney with a retaining fee.

And I would have to return to my home, wondering if tens of thousands of dollars were worth fixing up a house that would always remind us of being violated.

However, I would also have a confirmed taped account of the incident from a reliable source--that being enforcement's own emergency service.

Having said that, I still believe I would be sued by an attorney respresenting one of the attackers, because with my luck, a hollowpoint shattered his spine.

I also wonder how many years this process would take.

[ZeSpectre]

Have you ever noticed that nobody EVER offers "home invasion" insurance? I'd guess it's because just ONE event would wipe out any possible benefits due to the cost of all the previously mentioned items (repairs, hardening the house, lawyers fees, medical, etc).

Of course -my- policy in the new place will be a nice little hidden IR based camera that watches the house.

[drewbuddy]

so your first reaction to someone banging on your door at 2am is to call 911, and possibly waste the time of the dispatcher on the other end and the unit they dispatch out to your house?

what if you were awakened at 2am by someone banging on your door. you call 911, get a unit dispatched, open the door and it's one of your friends, who happened to be at a bar entirely to late, and needed a place to crash? or one of your friends had a falling out with thier better half and got kicked out?

don't get me wrong. if someone is banging on my door at 2am, they are met by the business end of a 12ga shotgun. i usually have a pistol within grasping range of the front door (in case i get disarmed or am to groggy to think to grab the shotty). I also have a sign on my front door that clearly states "if you trespass here, watch out for flying objets" and has a picture of a .357 on it.

also a better tactic than immediately dialing 911 is to wake your spouse, hand her the phone and have her ready to call 911 should anything go foul.

by all means you NEVER open the door till you identify the person on the other side.

sucks for whatever state you live in, if you can get sued. alabama just passed a law (now about two years ago i think) that states if someone is on your property and is threating you, your dwelling, vehicle or family, you have the right to shoot thier ass (in self defense only... you actually have to be in imminent danger) and not have to worry about getting sued, as the perp no longer has the right to do so.

[revjen45]

I never answer the door unarmed. Under the conditions described, i.e at night and sounds of violent and tumultuous entry into my domicile, it would be me and the Mossy Persuader loaded with a 3" mag #000 and 7 S&B #00 with 12 in each one (Steyr S9 in the pocket of my robe or shorts) and Mama watching my 6 with a .38 revolver. I realize that a 3" mag in the house would be mighty loud, but being deaf is better than being dead. Never go to investigate something you aren't prepared to deal with. WA is a castle doctrine state and I don't own a house. If I got sued my lawyer would get it all, so there wouldn't be anything left for the lowlife or his weasel relatives. If there was time I would call 911 to document things, but when our lives hang in the balance and seconds count I'm going for the 12 ga before the phone.

[mlandman]

Alstead NH is a REAL small town, probably less than 200 folks. It is REAL rural and that affects people's attitude about things that go bump in the night. I had a friend who grew up there and his pet pig would meet him when the school bus dropped him off at his family's farm!

[Manedwolf]

I know it's small, it's way out there, and people don't so much expect that sort of thing. Unfortunately, though crime is still low, there's been more incidents with heroin coming up from MA (and the subsequent addicts desparate for cash for a hit), Section 8 housing residents, and Mexican illegals.

Just more proof that bad guys can come attack you anywhere, unfortunately. There's no such thing as a "good area" that's completely immune. :/

I am in the Bedford area, which is a nice area, but I still, of course, keep a short 870 with light at bedside. If someone comes through the front door, they'd be in a 90-degree foyer, and could not move anywhere out of the line of fire but back out the door. That was a consideration in my choice of residence.

[pinshooter]

My doorbell rang last night about 12:30 AM, the dog barked. I looked out the window in the living room that gives me a view of the front steps. My wife turned on the big flood light in the back yard. I then looked out the back windows. I think this was a better approach than opening the door. No one was around. Maybe it was gremlins.

[Creature]

what if you were awakened at 2am by someone banging on your door. you call 911, get a unit dispatched, open the door and it's one of your friends, who happened to be at a bar entirely to late, and needed a place to crash? or one of your friends had a falling out with thier better half and got kicked out?

Every single last one of my friends knows better than to "bang" on my door at 2AM and that it would be much better for them to find a phone and call me instead.

If they cant call on the phone, they know enough to politely ring the doorbell and announce their name loudly and often enough for me to hear through the door...because the know that they are a finger tip away from an encounter with my home defense firearm.

[snail]

Here in the wonderful state of Tennessee their is a law that says if someone injures themselves in the process of committing a felony they can not sue whoever was responsible for that injury, be it a gunshot, or tripping on the living room carpet. No workman's comp for criminals here.:)

[workinwifdakids]

...genius.

I've always said the same thing. The drill is, I hand my wife the phone and tell her, "DIAL 911 and do NOT hang up!"

I grab the Remington 870 full of 3" 00-buckshot. I start screaming, "STOP! PLEASE STOP!" all of which is being recorded. Then I start in with, "PLEASE, STOP! I HAVE A GUN!" Then I move into, "I DON'T WANT TO HURT YOU, BUT I WILL IF YOU MAKE ME! PLEASE, PLEASE..."

At about that point, the dispatchor will hear "KA-FRICKIN-BOOOOOM," and there will be a nice recording for posterity. As I said, Tourist, you are a scholar & a gentleman!

:o

[ZeSpectre]

ummmm, until they read this post and lock ya up for pre-meditated. :rolleyes:

[Rmstn1580]

What an idiot.... I have nothing else to say. He's just a plain idiot. He needs to be put in prison for stupidity.

[kozak6]

what if you were awakened at 2am by someone banging on your door. you call 911, get a unit dispatched, open the door and it's one of your friends, who happened to be at a bar entirely to late, and needed a place to crash? or one of your friends had a falling out with thier better half and got kicked out?


All of my friends are well behaved enough to not try to kick my door down at 2 AM.

[Hallucinator]

I'm more and more convinced that a big homicidal dog is the answer to the home invasion thing.

[Deaf Smith]

Thank the Lord this is Texas. The thug would have been DRT. Never ever open the door late at night without someway of saying, "NO" real forcefully, quickly, and in multiple doses.

The guy is lucky he was just shot in the leg. There are times when all are bound, gaged, and shot in the back of the head (and that's after they have their way with the women folk.)

Deep pockets or no, this is Texas and we don't cotton to that kind of stuff.

[workinwifdakids]

ummmm, until they read this post and lock ya up for pre-meditated.

If you're seriously suggesting that planning what I'd do as a victim of a home-invasion robbery constitutes premeditated murder, I'm at a loss for words.

:barf:

[ZeSpectre]

If you're seriously suggesting that planning what I'd do as a victim of a home-invasion robbery constitutes premeditated murder, I'm at a loss for words.

Nope, I'm suggesting that announcing (on a public forum) any detailed plans to shoot someone (regardless of how justified the situation might be) may not be the best of all possible ideas.

If, God forbid, you ever found yourself in such a situation I know at least three lawyers who'd rip you apart because of it. I'm sure you intended otherwise but that post could easily be twisted to sound like a pre-set plan to shoot regardless of what the criminal does, or even some (unlikely but possible) accidental situation.

Look, I'm not picking a fight with you, I'm letting you know that you put yourself in a lousy position with that post. You don't like it? You disagree? FINE I have no problem with that and we can just agree to disagree. I'm just saying that a little more discretion might be wise.

[drewbuddy]

sorry, it's just me, but i have a real problem wasting the city's/county's resources on what may not be a BG trying to enter my home. If i get to the door, and don't recognize him, or they look threatening, then i call the cops.

I mean seriously. you call the cops... they hear you screaming about stopping and that you think you have an intruder (who is currently outside your house) they are going to send a unit. now think about the poor bastard that actually NEEDED that unit to show and help him out. oh well.... i guess that's what flowers are for huh?

oh, and there is a book that my generation was forced to read/hear at bed time as a child. it's the story of the little boy that cried wolf.....

[Manedwolf]

The laws are good for that here, too...you're within your rights to blast an intruder who is either in your home or in your "curtilage". If that guy had done that to someone's home who was armed, the police would have likely just taken a statement and called it good if he ended up dead on the doorstep.

So the homeowner apparently just didn't have a gun, and became a victim. Opening the door was sheer stupidity.

[workinwifdakids]

So, now we're talking about shooting an innocent guy through a closed door every time my doorbell rings.

*chirp*

:confused:

EDIT:
And if saying I'd shoot an intruder who kicks down my door at 2:00 in the morning amounts to guilt, premeditation, and so on, I'll have half the people in this forum for cell mates, so I'm not too worried.

[Manedwolf]

What in the world are you talking about? The original article was about someone kicking in the door.

Somehow, I don't think that's the same as knocking or ringing the doorbell?

[drewbuddy]

right. guess i didn't catch that part overly much. edit what i said. if it was a door being kicked in situation... 911 first, no doubt about it. after that is all speculation. at some point they would meet the business end of my mossberg. how and in what method i don't know. i <imagine> taking up a good firing position (in my house it would be crouched next to a door frame) and waiting for the perp to make entry. i don't know if i would tip them off to my prescense or not. the sign on my front door says i'm armed. hopefully they are literate.

god i can't spell tonight.

knowing me, i'd be pretty damn grogy. i usually go to bed around 10pm, so a 2am wake up call would have ripped me out of my usual deep sleep. waiting for them to make entry would, in theory, give your now pumping heart rate to wake the rest of your body up.

[ZeSpectre]

Oh, *I* got you...
So, now we're talking about shooting an innocent guy through a closed door every time my doorbell rings.

Nope you still don't "got me" and my advice was apparently not wanted.

So never mind.

[grey sky]

What was he thinking ? Sorry, victim was not thinking. Too sleepy, unexpected event, not a tactical thinker no shame in that. The criminal element will near always have advantage of supprise. Beating down my door. No one I know would do that, drunk is not an excuse. If a "friend" were to beat down my door anytime of day they would no longer be welcome at my home. Response to an event like this arm yourself call 911 report event, fire only after door is breached. If one is not a gun owner get midevil toss a chair in front of door to impeed progress in event of a breach any object to swing or poke with in hand, prepare to repel boarders. gearing up for a confrontation takes time, longer for some than others. getting in the mind set is slowed down by the denial of the event to cause grievius injury to another is repulsive to honest hard working citizens. That is why those of us on forums like this are discussing topics like this. Think it through befor it happens then it is not quite so alien when or if the time comes.

[The Tourist]

"so your first reaction to someone banging on your door at 2am is to call 911"

No, you misunderstood. I don't care whether the dispatcher answers or not.

But a tape recorder starts and my home address will be entered. This is useful information to prove my side of the story.

If shots are fired and people are hurt, you can bet you will be arrested or detained. You will need a lawyer.

[rcupka]

I assist with the CCW training at our club and we have the participants practice "Stop, do not come in here, I have a gun, The police are on their way, If you come in I will shoot you"

This serves the purpose of:
1. Warning the threat of your intent to protect yourself
2. Is recorded by the 911 operator that you warned the threat before shooting
3. If the person is not a threat, but a intoxicated friend relative, etc.... to identify themselves and stop.

We heard stories of a drunk son coming home and letting himself in at night after breaking up with his wife and the father announcing his warning to which the son replied "Dad, dont shoot Susan left me".

I think all three of those reasons are valid support of practicing the warning to help you get in the habit of stating it. Remember you will be just coming out of a sleep, your mind will be a little fuzzy and you will do what you practice.

[workinwifdakids]

Nope you still don't "got me" and my advice was apparently not wanted.

So never mind.

Oh, turn your Offendometer down a notch, would you? OP described what sounded like someone kicking in his door in the middle of the night.

In addition to grabbing a gun, Tourist said he'd call 911 to have the incident taped. I said that sounded like a good idea.

Somebody piped in by saying that sounded like premeditated murder.

First, there's no basis whatsoever for arguing that calling 911 and grabbing a gun in the case of a night home-invasion robbery amounts to premeditated murder. That's just beyond stupid, and I think everyone else here will agree.

Second, if discussing using lethal force to stop a home-invasion robbery at 2:00 in the morning might be interpreted as premeditated murder, then your response is true of every other post by every other person ever posted in this forum.

Are you advising TFL shut down the tactics forum? Or are you just suggesting that the answer to every scenario posted is, "I might do something, but only vaguely, and only if some vague other things happen, but I might not..."? After that, the moderator could say, "This thread is closed for being too specific." :barf:

[ZeSpectre]

workinwifdakids,

I'm just frustrated because I was trying to pass along some very prudent advice that was given to me and I'm botching the job. I'd rather not continue to hijack the thread so I'm bowing out.

[wayneinFL]

"I assist with the CCW training at our club and we have the participants practice 'Stop, do not come in here, I have a gun, The police are on their way, If you come in I will shoot you'"

This runs contrary to what our CCW instructor taught us. He told us not to tell a potential intruder you intend to shoot them, because if you have to shoot it may look as if you intend to shoot them. Something to do with intent. Or premeditation or something.

He advocated arming yourself, taking cover, calling 911, and telling the potential intruder that the police are on their way. Then if the intruders come in and get shot, the police have a record of you calling for help, the police(and the jury, later) have a record that you were seeking help and that you weren't just hoping to get to shoot somebody.

[joab]

First, there's no basis whatsoever for arguing that calling 911 and grabbing a gun in the case of a night home-invasion robbery amounts to premeditated murder.First nobody argued that. The argument was that presenting your gleeful and scripted account of how you would cover yourself when you implement what for all the world seems like a preset plan to kill would put you in legal peril.
He may correct in that assumption and history bears him out

Second, if discussing using lethal force to stop a home-invasion robbery at 2:00 in the morning might be interpreted as premeditated murder, then your response is true of every other post by every other person ever posted in this forum.Presenting a defense plan is not the same as discussing a predetermined result.

if a prosecutor will use your choice of ammo as a way of convincing the jury that you are guilty of premeditation think what they can do with your comment, especially the KA_FRICKEN BABOOM part.

[Hardtarget]

I don't think I've EVER had a 2:am knock/kick on my door. Even my sons friends knocked and stepped back so they could be I.D.ed before things got ugly. :D

Mark.

[rcupka]

The idea is to NOT have use your firearm by discouraging the intruder from entering your bedroom. I guess it is just a difference of styles. I can't imagine that it would be interpreted as "wanting to shoot someone" when the intruder is in your home in the middle of the night.

[The Tourist]

"I was trying to pass along some very prudent advice"

ZeSpectre, I think in debates like this we are all speaking as "one of equals." No one is taking the side of aggressors and everyone here has a home and loved ones to protect.

It sounds to me like we are all proffering the best way to get that done.

I come here for advice. I go to knife sharpening forums for advice about my job. To that end, I'll pass along info if I've tried it and found it to be worthwhile.

And so it is here about this topic. I cannot think of a more heinous crime that that of home invasion. Imagine. Crime. In the very personal area of your home amid loved ones.

I read each one of these posts. I wanted to. I felt it was necessary. And if you have anything further to say, trust me, I'll read it.

[ZeSpectre]

Okay, I'll try this from a different angle and see if I can make my point.

Scenario...
1) Bad guy busts into workinwifdakids' house.
2) workinwifdakids has no choice but to shoot him in defense of his house and family (no problem with that on my part BTW).
3) Bad guy survives and the whole thing later winds up in court.
4) Bad guy claims he tried to surrender and give up to wait for the police and that workinwifdakids shot him anyway.
5) Now we have a potential "heresay" situation with a jury trying to decide what happened. Yes workinwifdakids was justified in defending his home but is the jury going to think he shot in cold blood after the badguy allegedly "gave up"?
6) The opposing counsel pulls up the following exceript and hands it to the court...

I've always said the same thing. The drill is, I hand my wife the phone and tell her, "DIAL 911 and do NOT hang up!"

I grab the Remington 870 full of 3" 00-buckshot.
I start screaming, "STOP! PLEASE STOP!" all of which is being recorded.
Then I start in with, "PLEASE, STOP! I HAVE A GUN!"
Then I move into, "I DON'T WANT TO HURT YOU, BUT I WILL IF YOU MAKE ME! PLEASE, PLEASE..."

At about that point, the dispatchor will hear "KA-FRICKIN-BOOOOOM," and there will be a nice recording for posterity.

I've worked local law enforcement, then for USDOJ, been witness in a few cases of various sorts and worked with a LOT of lawers both defending and prosecuting. Please just believe me that any good lawyers could make this look REALLY BAD to a jury of your peers.

My one and only point. Don't make extra work for your defense lawyer.
If you are going to post self defense plans you should ALWAYS play it "close to the vest", be careful about what you post and for the love of GOD and your family make sure you NEVER sound like there would only be one outcome (shooting) to your plan.

There's a huge difference between writing the above, and writing something to the effect of "at about that point I've been backed into a corner with no other options left and I'm afraid the dispatcher would then be recording me defending myself".

Yeah I know it sounds like lawyer weaseling but if (God forbid) one of us ever wound up in such a situation we are going to need every bit of good background character witness we can muster to avoid further trouble because people like me would say "well, if you do a home invasion then you get what you deserve", but there are also an awful lot of Hollywood programmed people out there who would say "but he surrendered, you should have just waited for the police". Mind boggling I know, but true.

[drewbuddy]

just playing devil's advocate:

how does the defending lawyer know that you've posted on TFL? don't you have to show just cause in getting a subpena (sp?) for the computer? then pay to have an expert comb through it? are most criminals most likely that smart and have the $$ to pay for it?

or should i have a fairly large magnet that i can throw on top of my computer should i have to defend myself.....

[The Tourist]

"Yeah I know it sounds like lawyer weaseling"

No, you're right, I would do the same. I think in this day every shooting will sooner or later wind up in civil court--even if you the victim seek to recover damages from the aggressor or his attorney.

If this hasn't already been mentioned, here's another point. Your memory.

Having your home smashed, your wife terrorized and firing (knowing that you just might have ended a life) is probably the worst thing many of us will go through. This is the reason I mentioned an appointment with a cognitive therapist.

"Did I fire four shots of five?"

This is why I think an unrefutable taped record of the incident will be of great value.

I even think it would help you heal from the attack, reenforcing the fact that you fired in justified defense of your family.

You have outlined solid, salient points, ZeSpectre.

[joab]

or should i have a fairly large magnet that i can throw on top of my computer should i have to defend myself.....I do

I can speak from personal experience that comments made in an open forum can bite you in the butt, I just can't expand on that right now

This is why I think an unrefutable taped record of the incident will be of great value.There was a thread here awhile back where a guy thought that videoing an abusive neighbor would help his defense ifhe should ever have to take drastic action

To him the tape show the neighbor attempting to assault him and he defending himself

What almost every one else saw was a man setting his neighbor up for an ambush and gleefully putting three bullets into him and asking him if he wanted more as the man laid crying and dying on the porch

Had that video not been there he may have been able to convince the jury that there was a pattern of abusive behavior towards him and that he was merely defending himself

[chrisandclauida2]

here's your sign.

if he had a stupid idiot sign some one could have told him you dont open the door when someone is trying to kick it in.

[Mr. James]

The homeowner in the original post must need periodic reminders to inhale. He is pre-limbic stupid.

And, sheesh, for anyone getting all hackly-n-everthang over ZeSpectre, the fellow offered a sound, prudent suggestion in reply to one rather ill-advised post.

By the grace of God, I don't know firsthand, but I have no doubt my musings on internet boards would be of intense interest to a plaintiff's lawyer. "Hmmm, did this illegitimus have a predisposition for shooting down poor, misunderstood yutes?"

[fuknoz]

avoid the entire legal/law enforcement process. train yourself in the art of dead body disposal. get some pigs and keep um hungry!

[NY'er]

Joab, would the magnet thing actually work?!

Seriously though, any non-specific info/ guidance/ advice you could share relating to "comments made in an open forum can bite you in the butt" would be most appreciated. We're all hear to learn how best to protect ourselves, after all.... including legally.

Thanks!

[joab]

Joab, would the magnet thing actually work?! No clue
I thought it was a CSI reference as a way of pointing out that we should be concerned about what we say in netland being used against us, I am

any non-specific info/ guidance/ advice you could share relating to "comments made in an open forum can bite you in the butt" would be most appreciated.Comments I have made regarding a particular incident have been repeated to me by people I have not shared those comments with in person and who are not to my knowledge members of the particular forum
Assets I have spoken of are now verifiable and are being used against me
I made the mistake of mentioning my screen name to a neighbor kid who happens to be the cousin of someone I would not have shared that info with

Others I know have been able to figure out who I am by my screen name, location, or me specific things I have said

As a side note
According to one of my wife's Christian Viet cousins my screen name here means "kills many people"
What are the chances that a prosecutor would run with that

Just as an exercise once I decided to google some info on an ex girlfriend that I had not seen in about twenty years, here is what I found in about 30 minutes on with no help or money involved

She has been married three times
She had a substance abuse problem
Her last husband cheated on her with a younger girl
Her current relationship beat her up,
The court did not grant her support because
According to court records her new baby isn't his

She also has four traffic tickets and has had five addresses in the past seven years and is a Motley Crue fanatic,a stripper/hairdresser, was extremely naughty in the late 80's ( too bad we broke up in the early 80's probably because she wasn't) and wants to move to LA

I also know her present address (verified) and her baby's name her car make, year color and even plate number(verified)

There is much more that I found out but can not remember it all and it would be boring

If I can find all that with no real computer/stalker ability what do you think a determined stalker/PI could find

[Doggieman]

Yeah that was dumb of the guy. Totally clueless. MOST PEOPLE ARE CLUELESS.

I'd grab my 12ga, let 'em kick the door in, then shoot 'em.

[Hallucinator]

Small town or no, when somebody start's kicking in the door.....jeeesh

[Doggieman]

Reminds me of something that happened in a suburb in Orange County, CA a couple of years ago where I used to live. Some kid goes nuts and drives over to his girlfriend's house and shoots her with a 12ga, then runs around the neighborhood shooting at people. Note, this is a quiet, upper middle class suburban area. Not a lot of people on the streets to shoot at so mostly he's blasting his gun toward the houses. Some homeowner actually comes out of his house and yells at the kid to stop it. Kid shoots and kills the guy.

Incredible.

[joab]

Good point Doggieman

Some of the older members know what I mean and how this supports my point

[wmeSha]

Re: magnet

No magnet you have on hand is going to be strong enough to wipe your computer. There are impressively strong magnets INSIDE the hard drives of your computer that are used in the mechanism for moving the drive heads around and they don't erase anything.

It's both easy and tough to keep the privacy of your computer. For a regular non-technical person it is tough. Against clever investigators it is tough.

Some things can be helpful. Firefox web browser has a hot-key Ctrl-Shift-Del to "clear private data". How cleared? Hard to say. It might just delete the cache files (which might be later undeleted successfully). Against a clever investigator that doesn't go far. Against run-of-the-mill, you probably are pretty successful.

But let's be honest. You've got a bookmark for TFL right? Someone would notice that. If you're a bit more clever, you use an encrypted filesystem/drive to hold your browser data. That would probably even keep out the clever investigator. But then they just subpoena for your password to unlock it; and you can't take the 5th.

But I said it is easy. It can be easy. You can boot with one of those bootable Linux CDs and browse from it without saving anything on your hard drive. But you give up convenience. One, you have to boot with your CD when you want to use it instead of just using your computer. You don't have any cache from the last time, so pages don't load as fast, etc. Easy but inconvenient.

Personally, I value my privacy and use some encryption, but if push came to shove I don't have too many delusions that I'd be doing anything other than unencrypting that browser cache or sitting in a cell under contempt.

Anyway, it isn't exactly firearm related and this whole discussion feels creepily similar to planning a crime so it's probably time to stop.

[possum]

To answer a specific point brought up in the thread a couple of times......but what if it is a "friend" kicking in your door at 2:00 AM because he "stayed too late at a bar?"

Well, call 911.

Any "friend" who gets so freakin' drunk that he winds up on your doorstep, kicking on the door at 2:00 am is an idiot who really needs to spend a night in the drunk tank.

Heck, calling 911 on him just might be his much-needed wake-up call that getting publically tanked and walking around at 2:00 am and kicking on doors is really really stupid, and possibly a sign of having a serious alcohol problem.

possum

[Doggieman]

Here's what freaks me out: Any home breaker-inners can just shout "OPEN UP! POLICE!" as they're kicking in the door and it makes it real tough for a guy to shoot 'em. If they have weapons and you're standing there and have to pause to make sure they're not really cops, then you're at a serious disadvantage.

Which is why IMHO: if I lived out in the boonies (right now I'm in a small apt in the city surrounded by neighbors who hear everything), I would get some shatterproof windows and some dense, hard-ass doors and locks and outside lights and cameras. And dogs. Because all that would at least give me some time to look at the monitor and see if it's really the cops who are kicking in the door and beating at the windows. Not perfect but I think necessary for anybody who doesn't have neighbors close enough to hear what's going on.

[JoeBlackSpade]

"I'm more and more convinced that a big homicidal dog is the answer to the home invasion thing."

Well said Hallucinator.

Even a small YIPPEE dog is better than NONE. My Jack Russell can hear a mouse fart from a mile away.



As for legitimate Law Enforcement kicking in your door, they're only going to do that after they've already knocked and tried other methods- UNLESS you are a convicted felon, and they are serving a High Risk warrant on you. In such a case, you'll probably know you are wanted, and you're up the creek anyway. While there are a tiny number of cases, where raids were carried out on the wrong address (in one case a woman's home was raided erroneously something like 7 TIMES!!!) the majority of the time if someone is kicking their way into your home, you better go to the SIDE WINDOW with your chambered weapon in your hand, to see who it is. If you don't have a side window-apartment dwellers- check the peep-hole.

A quick 9-1-1 call, covers your butt for sure.

[Manedwolf]

As for legitimate Law Enforcement kicking in your door, they're only going to do that after they've already knocked and tried other methods- UNLESS you are a convicted felon

Or they have the wrong house.

[The Tourist]

"Or they have the wrong house."

This brings up a good point. Does anyone know of any case law about innocent home owners responding to 'angry masked men' breaking down their doors?

Since I'm not a lawbreaker, my first guess was that it was a home invasion.

(Dark of the night. Being startled. Insignia not readily discernable.)

[obxned]

Just one more reason to have dogs!

[JoeBlackSpade]

"or they have the wrong house"

http://www.thestarpress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070602/NEWS01/706020341/1002