Drive by shooting/how should respond?

[NIA]

I was leaving my wifes grandmas house at around 7pm. My wife, Her aunt, Grandma and I were saying good by in front of the house. when I noticed an 80s sedan turning slowly onto her block. I looked closer at the car as it approached and saw the back passenger with a bandanna over his face with a AR-15 type rifle pointed out the window. The only thing that caused me not to draw my handgun was that I saw the orange cap on the rifle. The teenager then proceeded to fire bb pellets at the four of us. What should I have done called the police. What would some one reading this post do?

[Socrates]

Your local law governs. Find out what it is...

Dr. S

[Shaun]

i dont think the question was whether to call the police or not, it was whether he should have drawn and started blasting the second he saw what looked like a gun.....orange cap or no orange cap i would have had my pistol out, but i dont think i would have shot first. Plenty of people have been killed for pointing neon green water pisols at cops tho.

Ive been in a couple situations where guns were pulled out and pointed at people in anger, once i was unarmed, i felt helpless and grabbed the people close to me and ran away. The second time, i was at a backyard party and i was armed, the gunman was 10 yards away and pointing a shotgun at a several people, i was to his blind side. I took cover by the corner of the house and told everyone close to get the F out (its surprising how many people had no idea what was going on, even when the gunman fired the shotgun into the air). The shotgun guy was to my left and i had my gun in my right hand extended down my leg and my cellphone in my left hand calling the police. I didnt feel i had the right to shoot even though i was close to see the gun being pointed at specific people and the BGs finger on the trigger. i knew the police were on their way and if he had started gunning people down i know i would have lit him up, but i waited. I'm glad i did, less than a minute later i heard the sirens. I slipped my gun away and the shotgunner rabbited. I gave a detail to the cops, and that was it. Nobody got hurt. My life was never in danger, so it wasnt the same situation as the drive by airsofting, but, my rule is if i see a gun being pointed at me or other people, my gun is out.

Calling the police should occur within seconds of your gun being drawn, whether you fire it or not. As a responsible gun carrier, you are not a out there to be a cowboy. Always be smart, protect yourself, but always let the real gunslingers handle the heavy stuff.

[Socrates]

I wonder what the odds are on shooting a target from a moving car? Probably not very good, unless the target is close.

I think you'd have a real problem explaining why the 12 year old was dead in the back seat, with a pellet gun.

I think taking cover, and, much as I hate to say it, make sure the gun is pointed at you, and it's a real gun. In Kali, the brandisher would have to shoot first before I shot back, pretty much, or, I would have to be totally convinced it was an attack that could cost me my life.

Why? Because my favorite little snubnose would spend a year at least in an evidence locker...;)

Dr.S

[oldbillthundercheif]

In the event of a real drive-by, dive for cover and grab dirt.

In this case, shake your fist in the air and yell something like "damn kids today gots no respect!" or return fire with an airsoft gun if you have one handy for some reason.:D

[USNavy_233]

I think the wise choice in case of a real drive by is to push everyone back into the house and hit the deck as soon as you spot the gun, then call the police.

In this case, you should have done the same (Minus the hit the deck part), and the only change to the story would have been "vandalism" instead of drive by shooting.

[newerguy]

My advice is to get down and stay behind cover until it's over. If they are gunning for you, you want to be as hard to hit as possible. If they are gunning for somebody else, you want to be as far out of the way as possible. The point of a "drive-by", as opposed to a "walk up and start shooting", is to be out of there before anyone can shoot back, meaning you aren't likely to hit the bad guys, even if you hit their car. Besides, it would ruin your day to peek out from behing cover to take your shot and get hit by a stray bullet.

Shooting at people in moving cars isn't always a good idea, and many police departments frown on it due to the ammount of stray lead that ends up flying aroung the neighborhood, and since if you actually hit the driver, you end up with an out-of-control car. My though on you specific scenario is, assuming the kid had a real AR, the worst thing you could have done would be to disable their vehicle (like by shooting the driver) and forced them to shoot their way out instead of driving their way out.

[Manedwolf]

If it's obviously an airsoft gun, whip out cellphone camera, record the whole thing, get license plate, burn file to DVD and give to police. That's still assault. Press charges. Being arrested would do the kid good.

Problem is that apparently in LA and elsewhere, people have been painting orange on the muzzles of REAL guns, especially gang members.

[Samurai]

Real drive by: MOVE!!! Put DISTANCE between you and the shooters, and hit the dirt. Take cover, if possible, but take concealment if cover is not available. Do NOT just go back inside the house. Houses don't stop bullets. In any case, get down!

Airsoft(R) pellet gun drive by: Run TOWARDS the car. Ignore the sting of the incoming rounds (those Airsoft(R) thingies hurt!). Get around the back of the car, and get a good look at the license plate for the car. Memorize it. Then, snatch your cell-phone (remember, your primary weapon!) from your belt, call the cops, and give them the make and model of the car, as well as the license plate number. Do this, and SOMEONE will go to jail that night.

Oh, yeah. And, if you hadn't seen the "orange tip," and if you HAD drawn and fired, a good lawyer would have gotten you acquitted from the inevitable murder rap. (Think about what that means. You WOULD have gone to jail, been arraigned, been released on bail, and gone to court months later. But, it's doubtful that you would have been convicted.)

[DesertDawg]

You should have notified the police immediately! While it was probably a "prank" that took place, it could possibly have turned into a deadly incident...perhaps shooting the BB gun at a group of armed gang members!

I was in the desert by myself a few years ago, and saw a "low-rider" Chevy come to a stop on a side road, about 500 yards from my spot. Three teenagers got out of the car as I watched them through binoculars, and they pulled something out of the car. The "something" turned out to be empty beer bottles, which they set up alongside the dirt road. Then, they all got back in the car and drove about 50 yards before making a U-turn. The car sped up, and two of the teenagers were hanging out of the windows of the car, shooting at the beer bottles as they sped past them. They were practising their "drive-by" shooting! The car made several passes, with more shooting....probably until all of the beer bottles were blasted. Needless to say, I was glad that I had my M1A rifle and several magazines loaded!

[Spade Cooley]

The first thing you do is take cover. If you shot at the car, you better get a good story together. "Officer, I saw this car full of gang bangers shooting at us so I shot back". If you put the story together properly, you win.

No one wants to shoot a boy for a prank but I would have loved to have ventilated the car, most likely Dads, with a few holes just to teach them a lesson. Just because they had a B B gun, the shots could blind a person for life.

After a shooting, always take your time when you give your side of the story. You might want to meet with an attorney first. Everything you blurt out can be used against you so choose your words carefully.

[newarcher]

I think that drawing and putting a couple rounds into the trunk area would have been appropriate. A couple of holes would do the car's owner a little good.

New

[mikejonestkd]

Putting a few rounds into daddy's car, even the trunk, as they pull away from the incident will get YOU a sure fire ticket to the pokey for the evening.

Its also not the kind of thing anyone should promote on this board.

[newarcher]

Well, I just did it....

My take is that I don't have time to distinguish between a fake gun and a real gun. If I am stuck in the open and see a person stick a gun out the window, I am going to return fire until that person is no longer a threat.

I suppose that if kids see one of their peers get shot for such nonsense, they might think twice about it.

There was a vidoe a few years back of some kids shooting people from a car with a paintball gun. The people legitimately thought that they had been shot by a real gun because of the red paint. That's a ticket to an early grave in my mind.

New

[Musketeer]

I think that drawing and putting a couple rounds into the trunk area would have been appropriate. A couple of holes would do the car's owner a little good.

New

The greatest threat to American's gun rights are some of our fellow gun owning Americans...

Guns are not used to teach somebody a lesson. IF you know this is a prank you do not respond with a gun.

The moron who takes the time to stand his ground and fire at a rifle weilding attacker who already has the weapon out and active is most likely going to get shot.

If the car has already passed by shooting at it as it leaves is NOT your duty or right; do you want it to come back or as another poster stated get stuck there on your street? Call the police and ambulence and tend to the wounded.

Now let's look at this realistically. A car with what appears to be an AR sticking out the window is coming down the street towards you.

1. Move behind cover.
2. If cover is not immediatly nearby move towards it and quickly.
3. Only after getting behind cover do you attempt to draw and engage if the threat has not left and you can confirm it was a real threat.
4. Call the police. Either to report the shots that have been fired or the prankster.

[threegun]

In a real driveby take cover and return fire if possible. The number one producer of a bad shot is the duress caused by return fire. You odds of getting hit only increase slightly by exposing a small portion of your body to return fire. I believe that the return fire will reduce your odds of getting hit well over and above the increase from shooting back. Remember if you have family with you reducing the odds is a must even if you are hit trying. If the bad guys are shooting long guns your cover might even help you all.

As for these kids......they need to be punished by the law. If the people being shot at thought it was a real gun then the kids could face aggrivated assault with a firearm. They would be facing a serious butt whipping if I could have them for a few.

[mikejonestkd]

Well said musketeer, and right along the lines of my concerns for this type of response to an incident.

[newarcher]

Well, Mike and Musketeer....

I guess my point of distinction is that if I see someone slowly driving up to my locale with a bandanna on their face and a gun sticking out of the window, I am NOT going to run up to the car, inspect the weapon, and then admonish the kids.

If you let them get close enough to assess whether it is a real gun or not, you already are dead if they so choose.

If you see that it is a fake gun, no...you don't shoot at them.

New

[Spade Cooley]

For the 911 callers and those who would let the police handle it, we are now in a position where everyone needs to do what they can to protect their family. We don't have a policeman on every corner. Naturally, taking cover is the best option.

The shooter from the car doesn't have a good solid platform to shoot from but you do. If you return fire, the driver will no doubt floor it and make the shooter more unstable.

We makes our choices and we takes our chances but if I retured fire and hit someone, would I be able to face a jury and get a just verdict. I think I would. We don't have time to think about making judgements of the age of the attackers or the type of weapon. We know we are under attack and simply react.

[Lurper]

The only way to insure your safety is to remove the threat and remove it quickly.
In this case, you would have been justified in returning fire (depending on the state you live in). Still, it turned out with the most desirable outcome: everyont lived. But, . . .

Just becuase you think you may see orange on the muzzle of the rifle means nothing. How do you know it isn't a real AR with the flash suppressor painted orange? How many times have you thought you saw something only to discover what you thought you saw wasn't really what it was?

As soon as you identified the threat, you should have drawn your weapon. Then gone prone and engaged the target.
Seeking cover in most cases is going to take too much time. Besides, how much cover do you really have available? Most homes have no cover, just concealment. Unless you put the engine block between you and the BG, your car is not cover - especially against rifle calibers. Unless you have a large tree in your yard and you are standing next to it, cover is not a viable option. Seeking cover when you should be seeking the target will get you killed. The only way to insure the safety of you and your loved ones is to remove the threat.

Always call the police even in this exact incident.

[DougO83]

For those who have never experienced a drive-by, let me enlighten you. Seeking cover is rarely going to be a viable option. I would have definitely drawn on the vehicle. This allows the possibility for two things to happen. 1. The punk kids realize that my REAL gun is far superior to their FAKE guns or 2. The driver makes an attempt to fire. I would hope that, in the case of option 2, I can squeeze off a round to at least cover my family. I am certainly willing to make myself an easier target to keep my family from harm, so they would be told to get behind something ASAP either way. Unfortunately, there is no way to truly know, but you did good and all turned out well.

[mattro]

At a minimum, I would have jumped in my vehicle, followed them and led LEO to them via cell phone.

[newarcher]

Lurper, you wrote:

"Seeking cover in most cases is going to take too much time. Besides, how much cover do you really have available?"

The man already told us that he was standing outside with 'My wife, Her aunt, Grandma'....that's one, two, threee pieces of cover right there. Two being in-laws and not one of them blood! :D

I am actually going to revise my answer afrer re-reading the post. The moment that they started shooting at me--bb gun or real--they would have gotten one in the car. I would have done my best to hit the shooter but anyone in the car is fair game. You shoot a projectile at me, I will do the same to you. Further, you have no idea whether the driver or other occupants might be holding a real gun.

New

[ZeSpectre]

I think you'd have a real problem explaining why the 12 year old was dead in the back seat, with a pellet gun.

You don't light matches in a fireworks factory.

[easyG]

The smart course of action is to get everybody down on the ground.
Folks are less likely to get shot when they're on the ground and not standing up when someone is shooting wildly from a moving vehicle.

Returning fire is not the smart thing to do.
Unless they are doing the slowest drive-by in history you probably wont even hit them...but you probably will hit other houses in the neighborhood!
It would only make a bad situation even worse.

[Spade Cooley]

If you returned fire you would be doing the slime balls in that car a favor. I doubt that if the car took a couple of hits they would ever try this kind of a prank again.

I have no idea what the colored things on the end of guns mean. As far as I'm concerned, a gun is a gun. If someone shoots at me regardless of age, I'll shoot back. But I doubt I'll be trying to estimate anyones age if they are shooting.

If you hit the car it is not likely anyone inside will be hurt because pistols are not very good at penetrating cars. Most police departments discourage shooting at fleeing cars.

Getting on the ground is a good option.

[newarcher]

Spade,

Do a little research on the effects of shooting a car with a gun of any sort. I wish I could find that video.

They shot a car with pistols and rifles and nothing stopped any of them.

The sheet metal on a car does little to slow down the bullet and in fact may cause the bullet to fragment and be more lethal.

But I do agree, I think I would have shot at the car. They are assaulting you and whatever happens is on them....of course, the media will display young Genarlo as a class A citizen and you as the devil. Yep, the devil went and pulled young Genarlo out of his kneeling stance at the foot of his bed where he was praying and gave him the gun and the bandana and made him shoot at innocent people....just so the devil (that'd be you) could shoot someone. Don't you know better? ;)

New

[easyG]

The sheet metal on a car does little to slow down the bullet and in fact may cause the bullet to fragment and be more lethal.
If a bullet fragments BEFORE entering the human body, there is no way that it is going to become MORE lethal.
The round will lose alot of velocity and energy and penetrating ability when it hits something hard enough to cause fragmentation...that makes each of those fragments LESS lethal.

[newarcher]

A moving target is less likely to be hit by a single projectile than it would multiple projectiles. The projectiles moving through the car after breaking apart would still be moving at such a clip that they could be lethal. Multiple, still lethal, projectiles has a greater chance at hitting someone and-- therefore being lethal--than does a single projectile.

I saw an episode of The First 48 where a bullet impacted the edge of the main beam of the window and fragmented, causing a young girl (I think she was 2) to be killed.

New

[easyG]

But the fragments would still be less lethal that the unfragmented bullet.

[newarcher]

Point taken....

Somewhere in there is a calculation of risk based on a single super deadly projectile versus multiple deadly projectiles.

Dead is the same either way.

New

[easyG]

Somewhere in there is a calculation of risk based on a single super deadly projectile versus multiple deadly projectiles.

Dead is the same either way.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying.


The fragmented projectiles do have the remote possibility of killing someone.
VERY REMOTE.

A bullet that has fragmented before entering the body is NOT much of a threat and certainly should not be considered effective for stopping another human.
They simply lack the velocity, energy, and penetrating ability to be considered effective.

[newarcher]

Nah, I understand precisely what you are saying.

You are correct, depending on what was hit and how much fragmentation exists.

If the bullet breaks into 10 pieces after entering the door, then you may be correct. If it breaks into 2 pieces after glancing off an object like a door frame, then it would be very lethal.

Sounds like we need a test. Let's all meet in a central location and bring your test dummy of choice (gang bangers, pedophiles, wife beaters, etc.) and let's test! :D

New

[markj]

The teenager then proceeded to fire bb pellets at the four of us. What should I have done called the police. What would some one reading this post do?


Take license number down call leo. Do not kill anyone, you are not in threat of your life.

If a real weapon is shown you got about 1/2 a second to react.

Fact here in Omaha, LEO pulls over van, before LEO can exit vehicle back door of van opens a guy with an ak 47 replica rifle shoots officer many times killing him, a trained officer in broad daylight.

Stay out of high crime areas.

[Fremmer]

I don't know about what you should have done. That probably happened very quickly.

I do know this, though. Time for Grandma to move. I don't care if she has to move to a smaller place, she needs to get the heck out of that area. Please help her find a new place to live.

[Hallucinator]

Take cover, call the cops. Rest assured that if this idiot keeps doing this for long, toy gun or not, someone will take him out. Just don't let it be you.

[obxned]

You'll never get everyone under cover in time. A shot or two to their car may spoil their aim or speed them away.

As far as orange on the end of the barrel - is it a non-firearm, or just a little spray paint. Can you really afford to guess wrong?

[Groundhog]

I think you'd have a real problem explaining why the 12 year old was dead in the back seat, with a pellet gun.

I don't.