Held Up At Gunpoint Tonight...

[Beach Accord]

The one night i was not carrying...

Walking home from a bar in Tampa called The Dubliner... A Nice area in south tampa, they caught me off guard (about 12 midnight). No flashlight, no knife, and most importantly...no GUN! They walked up behind me in a dark street as i was walking to my car, they both appeared to be high school age punks with long barrel revolvers. Told me to empty my pockets. I gave em my wallet with no cash in it, just plastic and IDs, and my cell phone. They told me to lay face down in the dirt as they sped away. I filed a police report, and Im glad I am alive. They can have the wallet and the phone, but It will NEVER happen to me again.

I will now be carrying a dummy wallet and will at no point leave the house without a carry piece.

Any suggestions besides the obvious?

-Chris

[tomh1426]

I dont want this to sound the wrong way but if you had a gun and pulled it you might of lost more than your wallet.
Man that makes me sound like one of them

[MDman]

That situation ended rather well. You did not lose anything you can’t replace and everyone involved left with no new holes. Had you a gun, and pulled it out, the best case scenario is you shooting two kids.

[fivepaknh]

the best case scenario is you shooting two kids.

Sounds like a good scenario to me. They’re violent criminals and they would have got what they deserved. Though, for Beach Accord it was better he wasn’t armed. He was outnumbered by to punks that got the jump on him. Had he tried to draw and shoot the odds are he’d be dead.

[MauiDoc]

`Aloha, BeachAccord, and TFL--my first posting!

Beach, I'm glad it came out well for you. A hard decision to go face-down: I've read too many accounts of compliant victims being shot anyway. Have to agree with MDman--better nobody got shot. Cancel the cards, have a stiff drink, thank your lucky stars, load your carry piece and carry it! The VT shootings just put the final nail into any complacency I may have had left over from my pacifistic upbringing.

My dad and stepdad taught me to shoot when I was young, though we didn't do it enough to get really good at it: therefore, I've just joined my local range and will take their NRA pistol class next month.

I had an experience similar to yours eons ago at a gas station in Oakland, CA, when my very full wallet was snatched from my hand by a well-dressed young man pretending to be working for the gas station. I held onto the wallet, came up into his face, he stuck his hand in his jacket pocket and said, "Man, I shoot you!" I let go, threw up my hands and said, "Take it." He took off around the end of my van, and off up the street. Luckily (I guess), he had set off my alarm bells and I had my girlfriend lock herself into the van while I paid for the gas (at which time the perp was looking over my shoulder checking the contents of my wallet). Lucky for him, as I couldn't get to the S&W .357 686 (6" fully-shrouded barrel, stainless steel, custom walnut grips, Redramp sights--my first--what a beauty) that was safely ensconced under the driver's seat. Just as well. I learned then about Body Alarm Reaction, because the entire universe narrowed down to a reddish tunnel focussed on his rapidly retreating back, hands shaking, breath short, and RAGE!! Twenty-five years later, I'm very glad I didn't (try to ) shoot him--any possible scenario would have come out bad for me, him and any bystanders and/or backstops.

My state has restricted carry laws, but I'm beginning to think that it's time to change that. Guess I'll talk to the guys on the range. Anyone out there had any experience with (trying) to pass a CC law in a blue state? Fairly Blue myself, though turning a little purple around the eges.

[redblair]

Glad you're safe. They got your stuff not you life.

Be safe.

Blair

Dec 15, 1791

[MauiDoc]

Aloha, BeachAccord, and TFL--my first posting!
Twice!

[BabyEagle.40]

I'm just glad you didn't get hurt! Hopefully the little b@stards will get there's some day.

[GroovedG19]

Glad you are alive and without injuries.Stay safe.Always.

[ShipWreck]

WOw - yea, glad U are alive.

But, having left the bar, had you shot one, you might be in some trouble - having drank alcohol and carried a gun. If U go to a bar, I would not take a gun with you.

[john in jax]

Uuuuuuumm, IIRC Florida Law prohibits concealed carry while drinking or in a bar for very obvious reasons.

We had LEO's teaching our CWP class and they specifically said that even sitting at a table in the "bar area" of a restaurant like Applebee's or Chili's was against the law. You can sit and eat in the restaurant portion, but you had better not be caught in the "bar" and/or drinking while you concealed carry.

Sorry it happened, glad nobody got hurt.

[Manedwolf]

Had you a gun, and pulled it out, the best case scenario is you shooting two kids.

They're not kids, they're violent criminals who need to be behind bars or put down before they kill an innocent person.

What is with this "kids" thing for people like that? To me, once they do that, they step outside the bounds of being civilized human beings, and just need to be stopped. By arrest, or by bullet.

[MDman]

a cell phone and some credit cards are not worth ending someone’s life over. You don’t shoot someone to punish them for their bad deeds, you shoot them because if you don’t you will likely die. I think it is a great mistake to kill someone over material items.

[joab]

a cell phone and some credit cards are not worth ending someone’s life oveNo but being held at gunpoint is
These type of criminals do not normally scale back their violence they escalate it over time
And no one should be asked to hope that they have not already escalated to the point of shooting because killing a yoot is somehow diststeful

[omaha64]

Glad you came out with the important thing intact. I share your feeling of being violated because I was held up at gun point when I was around 15 years old while collecting the money for a paper route.

[Mike Irwin]

At the point someone sticks a gun in your face, all bets are off.

I don't care if they're 89-year-old grandmothers, or 12 year old street thugs. At that point they've just graduated from lovable to deadly threat and can be dealt with accordingly.

I agree that you did the right thing. Frankly, even if I WERE carrying I'd likely give up my wallet to someone robbing me at gun point.

If, however, that person gives even the slightest indication that they're going to escalate the situation, all bets are off.

Were I to face the scenario that you faced, though, the only caveat is that I carry my gun in my front pocket. At that point the best thing I can think of is to give the wallet a pitch in one direction and move in the opposite direction for cover while drawing my gun.

One good thing to keep at home in a safe place is photocopies of EVERYTHING in your wallet -- front and back.

That way you have a list of everything you have to replace, the numbers of credit cards, expiration dates, and the phone numbers you need to call to cancel them.

[cgv69]

Glad you're OK but I have to say, it doesn't sound like having a gun would have done you any good in that situation. If they were already up on you with their weapons pointed right at you, what do you think you would have done?

This ain't the movies and you're not Clint Eastwood. You just left the bar so I have to assume you were at least partially impared and you think you could have pulled out a weapon from concealment and stoped 2 threats without either one of them shooting you first? :confused:

From where I sit, sounds like that sitation ended as well as possible. ;)

[Manedwolf]

a cell phone and some credit cards are not worth ending someone’s life over. You don’t shoot someone to punish them for their bad deeds, you shoot them because if you don’t you will likely die. I think it is a great mistake to kill someone over material items.

If you think that they won't kill you anyway if you give them what they want, you're either hopelessly naive or very young.

They will. Whether they're twitchy on meth, doing it with gang members watching, for "respect", so there's no witness to their crime to give a sketch to police, or just for the rush of seeing their victim's fear and taking more from them, they will.

It's a low-yield high-risk thing to do, and you're expecting rationality from them?

There's been MANY cases where the victim complies completely, and the assailant still shoots or stabs them.

Because they can.

[jhgreasemonkey]

Damn, you have my sympathies. And You did the right thing. The only thing I can suggest is keep a watchful eye and be aware of your surroundings at all times.

[7.62]

You just left the bar so I have to assume you were at least partially impared

That sounds a little stereotypical.

[Mike Irwin]

No, it sounds like a logical inference.

If he had said "You're Irish, and you just left a bar, so I assume you were a little...."

That would be stereotypical.

[acmetim]

yeah, thats a tough one. im not sure what you would have done if you had a gun. if they are on top of you and drawn its a crap shoot.
would you have been in a bar with a gun?
ive had a gun put to my head. nothing happened, but i sent him to jail by remembering his plate#.
that seems like the best outcome.
the kid it turns out is an adopted son of one of my friends now. still a bit of a punk, but wiser for the jail time i hope. i also hope i never see him. im also glad i did not kill him.
i carry concealed now.
i know the possible consequences of that and accept them.

[Majic]

By your own admission you said they came up behind you on a dark street with their guns drawn and caught you off guard. What good would have a concealed gun done you? Your situational awareness was way down and why did you park on a dark street?

[SD_Chop]

carry your gun and shoot them. The wrong criminal will shoot you anyways. Just walking through any dark alley always watch your 6 and have a avenue of escape. But your alive so as stated cancel your cards and make a bourbon

[republican24/7]

a cell phone and some credit cards are not worth ending someone’s life over. You don’t shoot someone to punish them for their bad deeds, you shoot them because if you don’t you will likely die. I think it is a great mistake to kill someone over material items

You're right, I would not kill them for taking my wallet and cell phone... I would kill them because they were pointing guns at me.

[Beach Accord]

Yeah, i realize that having a gun would have done me no good... more than likely it would have been detrimental to my situation. My awareness levels are usually top notch, but on this particular night, I had so much on my mind, i was basically staring at the ground while walking. And I did not park on a dark street, i was merely walking home as i reside blocks away from the bar. And no, i was not even slightly impaired, only had time for 1 beer at the bar...

There was noone to blame but myself in this situation. If anything, it has heightened my security senses...

Opened a safe deposit box today to secure all I could...

Be safe out there guys...

-chris

[NotAMonte86]

Scary situation, glad you are physically ok. Did you have your CWP in your wallet? Spare house key? I hope they are done with you completely...
Uuuuuuumm, IIRC Florida Law prohibits concealed carry while drinking or in a bar for very obvious reasons.

We had LEO's teaching our CWP class and they specifically said that even sitting at a table in the "bar area" of a restaurant like Applebee's or Chili's was against the law. You can sit and eat in the restaurant portion, but you had better not be caught in the "bar" and/or drinking while you concealed carry.
Actually FL CC law does not mention alcohol consumption at all. Whether you are drinking or not, you cannot carry in a bar or the portion of a restaurant that is primarily for serving alcohol (at the bar of Chili's, Alehouse, etc). Unless your physical location prohibits it, you can legally be drinking and carrying, although it might not be the best idea.

[Socrates]

Hate to say it, but now they would your wallet, cell phone, and gun.

Thank the Lord you are alive, pray the BG's get what they deserve, and move on.

You put yourself in a position to be at risk, and, got away with it.
Remember not to do it again...

God Bless you, which he already has...

Dr. S

PS
The worst is when you put yourself at risk, and, legally you can't do anything about it, or illegally. Going to happen to me in about a 1/2 hour, and, the only thing I can carry is Pepper Spray.

[Tom2]

How long has Jeff Cooper been dead, and has everyone forgotten condition yellow, condition red, etc.,etc? Outside in a dark alley at midnight is yellow for me regardless if it is a "nice" area. But I am not out that late anyway! Part of getting old?

[JohnKSa]

Armed robbery is grounds for use of deadly force, NOT to allow you to shoot someone to retain property but because it is absolutely abhorrent to any sort of civilization to allow a criminal to bargain with you for your OWN LIFE.

You're not shooting someone over your wallet and credit cards, you're defending your LIFE against a person who says that AT BEST it's only worth what you have in your pockets.

As far as giving up, sometimes that's all you can do, but statistics show that in general, resisting violent crime through the use of a firearm offers your BEST chance for escaping unharmed. Not even complying with your attacker offers a better chance for avoiding injury. The main point is that one should NEVER assume that complying with a violent criminal will ensure their well-being. I've said more than once that relying on the mercy and compassion of violent criminals is a very poor strategy.

The one night i was not carrying...That's what makes me carry any time I can.

[Groundhog]

Beach Accord, glad you are OK. I look at situations like this as a warning or lesson, and even a blessing. God took care of you and you learned not to do that again! It was a bit costly but not overly so. Kind of like a kid getting a spanking :D You can take heart that it was not much much worse! AND, you get a chance to teach others through your experience!

[Trip20]

One good thing to keep at home in a safe place is photocopies of EVERYTHING in your wallet -- front and back.

That way you have a list of everything you have to replace, the numbers of credit cards, expiration dates, and the phone numbers you need to call to cancel them.

<slaps forehead>

Great idea, Mike. I'll be doing that tomorrow evening after work.

[Arizona Fusilier]

Sounds like luck, good and bad, had more to do with the outcome.

CCW/bar/drinking is always problematic; sorry, no brilliant insights here.

[LightningJoe]

Well, the point is that guns are not magic wands. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. The BGs were good enough at it to sneak up on you and to have numbers on their side. Had you had a gun on you, you might have been able to counter a lower level threat than that, but two guys with guns pointed at you is not something against which you should draw.


Perhaps situational awareness could have prevented the encounter, but once they had the drop on you, it was over unless you wanted to be some kind of hero.

[mvpel]

Uuuuuuumm, IIRC Florida Law prohibits concealed carry while drinking or in a bar for very obvious reasons.

New Hampshire has never prohibited carry in bars, has had concealed carry licensing for some 70-80 years, and yet people still think that banning self-defense tools from bars somehow makes sense.

[Dannavy85]

They walked up behind me in a dark street as i was walking to my car

These days, you have to be thinking tactically 24/7 and put yourself in as safe and advantageous position as possible. Always keep your head on a swivel and body in rotation to get the best posible lead on suspected threats.

Now a days you have to consider podunk USA like Fallujia, Iraq.

[Manedwolf]

Mvpel, the lack of bans against carrying in bars saved a doorman's life at a Manchester club a couple months ago. Someone got thrown out, came back and started shooting at the doorman and into the bar, thankfully missing. A CCWer in the bar came out, got the BG twice, BG fled, pursued by an angry crowd.

[acmetim]

what if a fellow concealed weapons carrier came upon this scene in that alley:
two guys with guns drawn on another guy. is he justified in firing on them, or must he tip his hand by declaring himself?
if you were that guy, what would you do?

[Socrates]

ALWAYS DEPENDS ON YOUR STATE LAW.
Dr. S

[Hallucinator]

The clock is running on these guys. They may not know it yet but if they keep doing what they're doing,

1. They'll be killed
2. They'll go to jail

At least they didn't get your gun because you didn't have it.

[TBT]

a cell phone and some credit cards are not worth ending someone’s life over. You don’t shoot someone to punish them for their bad deeds, you shoot them because if you don’t you will likely die. I think it is a great mistake to kill someone over material items.
Bravo. Well put.

[jfrey123]

You don’t shoot someone to punish them for their bad deeds

If someone points a gun at me demanding money, their bad deed isn't robbing me: it's the pointing of a gun at me.

you shoot them because if you don’t you will likely die


What is the biggest rule of thumb when using a firearm? NEVER point the weapon at something you don't intend to destroy. Everyone here keeps telling our poster "it's a good thing you didn't have your gun," or the other one I liked, "they're kids."

Two kids with firearms trained on you are a HUGE THREAT to your life. I don't care if they're high school aged or not. The minute they believe they're mature enough to rob men in alley ways, they're mature enough to be held accountable for their actions.

We have no idea what is going to happen after we comply. How many stories have we read where the store owner opens the safe for the BG and gets shot anyway? If you're willing to just "go with the flow" and hope you don't get shot in the end, that's your gamble. I won't take that chance.

Apologies for the rant. The important thing here is that our friend on this forum is ok. Thanks for sharing your experience Beach Accord. I use stories like this as mental training. Glad to see your safe in the end.

[SatanzBountyHunter]

They told me to lay face down in the dirt

That is where my compliance would end...if I would have complied any in the first place. Another poster mentioned that BG's are killing their victim's more often now. I think he is right.

The important thing is that you are alright and that you raised your threat level awareness. Like you, my awareness level is lower close to home because I know everyone around these parts and don't expect that...of course that is when you will get it.

I have a question for you though...was there ever an opportunity for you to push off and run? Don't get me wrong, I wish you could have terminated these douchebags...but wondered if a sudden shove off and run like hell would have been an option for you? Personally, I would consider this before I complied (if I wasn't armed) since I do think that more people are getting killed in these scenarios...even when they comply.

Anyone else ever practice that tactic?

[revjen45]

Drink at home- it's safer.

[vox rationis]

glad that you are OK:

I know that this is a platitude but it bears repeating, and I've tried to turn this into a mantra: "Situational Awareness is the first step of survival, especially when you are carrying"

And it is quite easy to slip into "air in the clouds" mode..I fight this all the time.

[workinwifdakids]

If he had said "You're Irish, and you just left a bar, so I assume you were a little...."

That's not inference, that's evidence.

:eek:

BWHAHAHAHA!

No, but really, friend, I'm very, very glad you're all right. It was the best of all the bad possible outcomes, short of you standing over two smoking bodies.

[CyberSEAL]

a cell phone and some credit cards are not worth ending someone’s life over. You don’t shoot someone to punish them for their bad deeds, you shoot them because if you don’t you will likely die. I think it is a great mistake to kill someone over material items.


They were armed and they accosted him, this has nothing to do with material posessions. If the OP had the opportunity and had shot them both, it would've been not only justified, but also a huge gift to the rest of society.

[W.E.G.]

Anybody who gets into a shooting after having just come from a bar is probably going to really regret even going out that night.
It might all work out in the end, but it will most likely end up costing you a fortune.
If it doesn't work out, you don't even want to think about what will happen.

Just something to think about when you are making those decisions that determine your fate.

[CyberSEAL]

Unfortunately most people can't choose when they will or will not get robbed...

[Ruthless4christ]

Most young thigs in the states these days are not expecting you to take the fight to them. They depending on you to be afraid and fold. I once was mugged by to me in San Pedro Sula Hondures while returning to my hotel late one night, they were carrying knives and assumed me for a tourist, not expecting me to beat the daylights out of them which i did.

take some weapon disarming classes(as well as weapon retention)

carry your gun next time and rembember all the people whoget mugged and shot afterwords.

God Bless and good luck

[Ian2005]

Well stinks as it does, your obviously alive and only out a handful of replaceable plastic. I don't think it wouldn't have mattered if you had an MP5, M60, and 5 pistols on you. The the bad guys got the drop on you and had a revolver already aimed at you, there's no you could have outdrew them and fired. Unless of course you had special mall ninja training :-)

Your fine, smile, its good to be alive. Don't sweat it and enjoy the sunrise. Your once-in-a-lifetime threatening ordeal is over.

[cgv69]

Not to split hairs but...
And no, i was not even slightly impaired, only had time for 1 beer at the bar...
Numourous studies have proven that yes, even after even only one drink, you were at least slightly impaired. That is one of the reasons why it is illegal to carry in a bar.

[Axion]

Do you think you have a fast enough draw to draw and get a least one shot off and BOTH guys before either one of then can pull the trigger? If not then a gun would probably have not helped.

[mvpel]

That is one of the reasons why it is illegal to carry in a bar.

It is not, and never has been illegal to carry in a bar in New Hampshire, and that fact saved the life of a bouncer a few weeks ago.

Don't be a patsy for the gun banners.

[buckster]

Glad your OK. You know the situation now. Let Leo's have the first try. Kids with guns go down fast. You don't have to be a victim the second time, however. Some self defense classes, and more range time for you.