Shot in the Head and Won the Gun Fight

[Corik Jasra]

A military friend of mine’s buddy was having a small get together in our area. During the party, two armed BGs came in to rob the place. We have a pretty low crime rate and according to my LEO friend home invasions are not unheard of, but very rare. The thugs robbed each and every person in the home at gunpoint. My friend’s buddy could see that things were starting to go bad. They didn’t leave after the robbery and started moving people into a bedroom and he could tell this was not going to end well. One was in the room with him while the other was herding people into a back room. At this point, my friend’s buddy reached behind his couch, grabbed a 22lr pistol and figured he would go out fighting.

The BG covering those in his living room took a step toward him, and shot my friend’s buddy in the head with a 9mm, while he, almost at the same moment shot the BG in the stomach with the 22. The BG in the bedroom heard the shots and ran from the back room out the front door. The BG shot by the 22, made it to the front door, took two steps outside and fell to the ground dead.

Now the part that was unbelievable to me is that my friend’s buddy has only a small scar on his face from being shot almost point blank with a 9mm. The bone around the area where he was shot is very strong, but eggshell thin. Whether it was the angle, a malfunctioning cartridge or whatever, he has only a small scar from some thug shooting him in the face. He must be one of the luckiest people living.

I am not sure how to assess this situation from a tactical standpoint, but I think it is pretty apparent that if BGs are willing to risk robbing a place when people are home then you have an incredibly dangerous situation on your hands.

[W.E.G.]

I am personally familiar with a situation where a two "businessmen" were discussing their respective positions on a business matter when one shot the other in the head with a 9mm.

The bullet struck businessman #2 on the medial area of the forehead approximately 1.5" distal of the eyes.

Hey man, nice shot.

Anyhow the bullet penetrated the skin, and travelled between the skin and the skull, to exit the opposite side of the head at a medial location approximately 3" distal of the base of the skull.

Businessman #1 then fled. Businessman #2 called 911 and reported the incident.

Businessman #2 was transported to the hospital, where he was released after brief examination and questioning. Treatment consisted of a band-aid to the front, and a band-aid to the back.

True story. I kid you not.

[armedandsafe]

Ex-son-in-law's father was Chief of Police in this small town many years ago. He was walking up to a house to serve a warrant when the BG came out shooting. COP shot him in the head with .357 and bullet entered between the eyes, high on the forehead, travelled along the skull, under the skin and out the back of the head. Disoriented the BG enough that he could be cuffed and transported to the hospital, then to jail.

Pops

[kgpcr]

Guys these are stories i have to see to believe. I would not say its impossible but a straight on shot with a .357 and you will have a body not a living person. if shot at an angle sure it can glance off but not a straight on shot. I am not saying anyone is lying i would just have to see it to beleive it.

[stephen426]

kgpcr,

Note this part of armedandsafe's post...

COP shot him in the head with .357 and bullet entered between the eyes, high on the forehead, travelled along the skull, under the skin and out the back of the head.

Now if he said square between the eyes instead of high on the forehead, my bs meter would be going off like crazy. Since the shot was high on the forehead, it was probably more of a grazing shot that was partially deflected by the skull. The slope of the suspects head as well as the angle of entry was probably just so to cause this rare, but completely plausible wound. I'm sure there is also plenty of exageration when he claimed the bullet went " out the back of the head". Skin is definately not strong enough to force the bullet to follow the curvature of the skull rather than "ricocheting" off. All one can say in this case is lucky perp!

[GATMOG]

glad hes alright--and im glad the bg got what was coming to him..

close call huh?

i'd be sick for days :barf:

[natjohnb]

The above stories are completely plausible IMO, it doesn't take much to deflect the path of a bullet. Bullets do strange things in actual shootings; human body is full of hard bones (with odd angles) elastic skin, tough muscle, and soft organs...human anatomy is not like a block of ballistic gelatin.

That is why "stopping power" with "this" caliber vs. "that" caliber is so subjective.

[Lavid2002]

I'd be nervouse for weeks
wow .22lr killed a man with 1 shot to the gut....hmm nice shot wonder what ahppened?

[FirstFreedom]

Yeah, the old noggin is pretty tough in the forehead area from a glancing blow.

[StuMan]

I am from northern Canada, can some one tell me what BG's are?:confused:

[Trip20]

BG = Bad Guy

Just an abbreviation. Here (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/faq.php?faq=acronyms_category#faq_firearms_acronyms) is a list of other abbreviations you're bound to come across while reading.

Welcome to the board, StuMan. :)

[StuMan]

Cheers, reminded me of an episode of southpark for a minute there.

[Creature]

StuMan posted: I am from northern Canada, can some one tell me what BG's are?

The link below will help you out a lot...

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/faq.php?faq=acronymscategory#faq_acronyms_category

[Thumper]

No headshots, but I personally witnessed a .40 hydra shok fail to penetrate a television tube from about a five foot range. Weird.

[Dwight55]

Several decades ago, my "then boss" was messing around with a married woman. Husband warned him not to continue, . . . but he "couldn't help himself." :rolleyes:

Husband caught my boss sitting in his Jaguar XKE out in the parking lot as he cruised through, . . . pulled out a 1911 and whipped off a round, . . . then split. He must have jerked the trigger as the hardball round just made a dent in the Jag's hood, . . . then buried itself under the chrome strip at the top of the windshield right over the driver's head. :eek:

Long & short, . . . bullet didn't do much at all as far as damage was concerned, . . . and like the above stories, . . . surely didn't do what one would have thought it would have done, . . . but I kinda think my boss may have changed some of his clothing fairly soon thereafter. :D + I never heard him mention her again.

May God bless,
Dwight

[markj]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/ap_on_fe_st/odd_gun_shot_headache;_ylt=AqNK5wXr25sohy86TDOhTCHtiBIF

Guy was shot in the head, taken to hospital, wife was arrested.

[revjen45]

Thumper- I have also seen ballistic projectiles fail to penetrate a picture tube. The covering glass is incredibly tough and thick. Imagine the liability if the TV imploded and showered the family with glass shrapnel when one of the rugrats throws a metal toy that hits the screen. My Dad's wife threw a heavy metal ash tray at the tube in a pique. The corner hit the TV and made a spider web crack in the covering, but it did not damage the CRT.

[vox rationis]

the conclusion is clear: the 22lr is a better one shot stopper than the 9mm :D

but seriously, the [skull] angles were in your buddy's favor that night, and the bad guy probably caught that .22 in the abdominal aorta...which would pretty much be a pretty quick way to take an eternal dirt nap

[Double Naught Spy]

The bone around the area where he was shot is very strong, but eggshell thin. Whether it was the angle, a malfunctioning cartridge or whatever, he has only a small scar from some thug shooting him in the face.

Pretty much all bone is very strong, in a relative sense. It is stronger than steel when comparing bone and steel of the same weight. However, egg shell thick bone is NOT very strong compared to steel of the same thickness.

In other words, the eggshell bone did not stop the bullet because of its amazing strength. A good jab with a finger can punch through egg shell thick bone.

I am rather curious as to what bone of the face is egg shell thick that was shot. The only such bones that come close to matching are the nasal bones (bridge of nose area) and inside of the eye sockets, surrounding the eye.

[USPshooter]

So my question is, do you think that would have happened if he was shot with a .45? This is why I don't really care for 9mm.

[Mausermolt]

yeah personaly i think 9mm's are for poser gangsters. the only thing i use a
9mm for is killing rattlesnakes. if you realy want to have some nockdown power get a .45 acp thats why the military used it for the longest time. but then again they use the 9mm now....hmmm my conclusion, the goverment and poser gangsters are verry cheep. lol

[chrisandclauida2]

like i say in a gunfight there are no such thing as a kill shot or one shot stop.

[john in jax]

A guy I went to high school with was in a convenience store when it got robbed. The robber was VERY agitated and even after getting cleaning out the store's register and the customers pockets, he didn't leave and started talking about executing people. My friend charged the perp and tried to wrestle him to the ground. He was shot in the head, point-blank (powder burns and all), with a .25 cal Raven five (5) times. None of the shots went through his skull, they all ran around under the skin as described in the posts above. He had nerve damage and still has lots of scarring but he is OK.

A bounty hunter friend of mine was shot by a fugitive with a 9mm in the left-side, chest - the bullet hit a rib and traveled along that rib until it exited out his left-side, back. He bled a lot, had a broken rib and a monsterous black and purple bruise covering his whole left side, but he came thru it OK.

[45Marlin carbine]

I always get a kick out of the storys in the NRA magazine's 'Armed Citizen' page when some granny woman emptys a .22LR revolver at a BG or G's that came to steal her SocSec cash. sometimes a fatal shot results. I remember once an oldster shot 3 BG's - one expired on the front porch, another at the steps and the other got away w/minor gunshot wounds. she left 'em laying there - didn't even call the law. Neighbors saw 'em laying there next morning. The oldster simply reloaded then went to bed she said!!

[buzz_knox]

So my question is, do you think that would have happened if he was shot with a .45? This is why I don't really care for 9mm.

It can happened (and has happened) with any round. It's a matter of the angles involved and the type of structure hit than the caliber.

[Bob F.]

Weird stuff happens with bullets! Calls (EMS) I've personally run: 10yo boy shot w/ .22lr in rt temple, point blank, 90*. We were only a couple minutes away, probably less than one minute on-scene (knocked deputy over going out the door), 2 medics and 1 EMT/driver on truck (darned good crew, if I do say so myself), 7-8 minute run-time, excellent ER doc waiting with "all-hands".
1st x-ray showed onset of brain-shift (bad sign). Bullet entered, then curved upward at the midline and lodged against inside of skull at the top of his head. He was subsequentially discharged 10 days later w/ no neuro deficits.

14 yo female shot point blank, .38 Spec WC target load. Entered below left eye penetrating the sinus cavity. When I arrived she was sitting on door-step finger sweeping bloody muscus out of her mouth, large swollen area at base of neck on right shoulder. Bullet had actually lodged in C-1, fracturing it and a fragment had passed just above the bifurcation (read Y) of the carotid, between the arms of the "Y". She was "trached" the next day but discharged sometime later, physically fit.

Both the above were alert and talked all the way to the hospital, about 20 minutes in the second case.

Young (20's) adult male. .25ACP to mid-sternum (breast bone) and aslo to left ribs. Found face down in grass w/ arms folded under head. When we rolled him over he said :"Oh, God, I can't breathe".
Arrested about 4-5 minutes later, now only 2 minutes out. Could not be resusitated. X-ray showed 1 bullet lodged very near spine. ER Doc said probably died of spinal shock.

Stuff happens. Sometimes it's just not your time, sometimes it is.

As for OP, I always like the poster of the heron/stork? swallowing the frog, except the frog has the heron by the throat:"NEVER give up!" Glad your buds OK! Buy him a cold one from me.

Stay safe.
Bob

[Freetacos]

There was a guy around here at USC a while back who was grazed in the head by a bullet fired from gangsters fighting each other in the streets. He is a lucky man indeed.

[markj]

10yo boy shot w/ .22lr in rt temple, point blank

or 21 year old boy in left temple with 22lr, died on the scene, my brother at dads house, friday after moms day. I cleaned it up. I will never understand why tho.

[ibfestus]

Any bullet can and will do unbelievable things. I personally witnessed a fight where one dude had another in a bear hug from behind. The guy in front shot other guy 5 times point blank with a .25 Baretta. Not one round penetrated the skin.

In another case one BG with a .25 fired 3 rounds and had 3 1 shot kills. Go figure.

If you watch Dillon's Machine Gun movie, you can see a .50 BMG round deflected 45 degrees by a piece of styrofoam... yet they say that 6.5 FMJ in Dallas do what it did!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Bob F.]

Mark: So sorry to hear about your brother. No words, really. Ya' just never know. FWIW not sure it's worth the effort trying to figure out "why?'

Used to tell the FNG's on the squad: "Ya gotta be good at what you do (EMS), people are depending on you. Go out there and do your best, but remember: ultimately it's between them and God."

I've seen codes go textbook perfect but the patient died, and I've seen everything go wrong and the patient lived anyway.

Go figure.
Bob

[cpaspr]

Markj -

My condolences. That's a hard one to understand. And you never forget.

[nbk2000]

I saw some TV show where some black kid who was shot in the head point-blank by a .44 magnum had his skull blown open and half his brain removed.

Now what makes this interesting is that not only did the kid live, but he made a full recovery and went on to graduate high-school (amazing in itself).

This was, of course, a one-in-a-million miracle and not to be expected when shot in the head with a .44 magnum, but it does show that nothing is impossible...just extremely improbable.

[kgpcr]

99% of the head shots that live are grazing shots. you can get hit with a .50cal and live through that and live, i have seen it. took a streak out of his hip and he never knew he was hit. stiches and an ugly bruise and he rejoined out unit a week or two later. straight on with a .50call and itd a headless person. can i win the powerball lottery? sure but it aint gonna happen. there is a huge tendancy to way over exagerate things on this board in my opinion but thats just my .02. he took 5 to the chest with a .357 mag and he walked a mile to the hospital and was released two days later. i just dont beleive those stories at all. it turns out he was hit once i the lower abdomen and the bullet never hit anything major and thats the real story.

[Groundhog]

After testing my 9mm on a bowling pin, I choose to aim at soft parts!

[chris in va]

There was an episode of Dr G Medical Examiner recently involving an older 22 revolver. In the end it was found the thing went off after getting knocked off an ironing board.

However, the bullet entered the guy's forhead, travelled around the skull between the skin and lodged behind his ear. Not once did it actually penetrate the skull. The guy died from it somehow.:confused:

Or how about the very recent news story about a woman waking up suddenly by a noise and accidentally shooting her husband with a 32 in the head. Bullet didn't do much, article said "non-life threatening injury". She didn't dial 911 because both are felons.

I personally witnessed the aftermath of two 22 shots to the head. The guy's body was laying on the sidewalk for hours as they did the investigation. I moved from the area shortly thereafter.

[shy_man]

Those stories being shot between the eyes and got through at the back of the head, then after few seconds the victim called the police and treated to a hospital and end to jail is unbelievable. Do you know how strong a .357 when you shoot someone. Use a factory ammo and fired it on the range without ear protector and it will shatter your hearing, and I may read stories like this that it seems the .357 is an ineffective cartridge, it make me...:)

[buzz_knox]

Do you know how strong a .357 when you shoot someone. Use a factory ammo and fired it on the range without ear protector and it will shatter your hearing, and I may read stories like this that it seems the .357 is an ineffective cartridge, it make me...

Would you believe full load 12 gauge slugs bouncing off the edge of a baseball cap brim? How about .223s? If you don't believe me, ask Louis Awerbuck. It happens from time to time when dealing with his movers (which has clothed Tactical Ted targets).

Bullets do weird things all the time. When you consider the angles involved, the surface tension of skin (which holds the bullets inside the scalp after they ricochet off the skull) and the amazing ability of the human body to keep going even when injured (or dead on its feet), you start to understand why what you expect to happen, is often the thing that doesn't happen.