Why do people today see revolvers as "outdated" or "old men guns"?

[Doug.38PR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4Iimq6OxNQ
Is it from watching this or movies like this?

[croyance]

I didn't look at the video, but I think it is because the technology is older, on average the users are older, and the look is just not as sleek as some semi-autos.
On the other hand, I have talked to gun store workers and they say that the younger buyers of revolvers either grew up with them and don't want to change. That is what they learned with and they are happy with them.
When I have taught new gun users, they always prefer to try a semi-auto.

[Doug.38PR]

When I have taught new gun users, they always prefer to try a semi-auto.

ahhh. And to me, that smells of "Oh, I wanna have what keanu reeves or mel gibson used."

[MarkXIX]

I dont know, I'm only 19 and like both revolvers and semi-autos. I think I might even almost like a revolver more actually. :)

[Don Lu]

That is one of the best scenes in gun history....that and the bar scene from "Desperado". Not realistic but the sexiest gun scenes ......I think I'll watch it agian...lol

Im under 30 and new to hand guns...so far my revo's outnumber my Semi's.

[skeeter1]

I'm in my 50's, and I like both revolvers and semi-autos. I started out shooting revolvers, and I guess if I HAD to choose only one style, it would be a revolver. Since I don't have to choose, I like to keep both. My revolvers are more accurate and reliable than the bottom-loaders, but the latter are just too much fun to plink with to push them out of the picture.

[STS3_SSN705]

Thank you for the clip. That is one of the greatest movie shootout scenes of all time, and it comes from one of my favorite movies.

That said, my only gun right now is a revolver.

[RevolverLover]

Why do people today see revolvers as "outdated" or "old men guns"?


I don't have a problem with that...it means more revolvers for me and at better prices. ;)

[joshua]

That's what makes thugs feel like they can take on an old boy with a six shooter. I'd take my GP-100 over my 5906 if I only have one or two opponents. Shoot if I have 2 or four speedloaders then let them think like their in the matrix. josh

[Deaf Smith]

Cause revolvers are either cowboy SA wheelguns that date back 135 years or so in design or they are DA revolvers with only 5 to 8 shots, heavy long DA pull, a very slow reload, and date back past 100 years in design.

And I say that owning a good set of Smith and Ruger wheelguns.

[woodsltc]

I love the way there is ZERO recoil in the movie clip. Wish I could shoot my guns with absolutely no recoil like that. Even the shotguns show none!!! :rolleyes:

[RevolverLover]

I love the way there is ZERO recoil in the movie clip. Wish I could shoot my guns with absolutely no recoil like that. Even the shotguns show none!!!

That's Hollywood for you. ;)

[kametc]

I served in a tank company in cold war West Germany. Our issue pistols for the tankers were 1911 Ithicas, Remingtons, and a few Colts. Those guns all dated from WWII and in the whole company there was not one pistol that would actually fire semi auto. NOT ONE!!!!! It was all slap and tap,,,fail to feed,,,and stove pipe jams. Therefore I have a very deep and inherant mistrust of any semi auto firearm.Oh yeah I've shot some nice pistols since, but I just a week ago saw my one sons Glock stove pipe on him. Now what If I really really bad needed that round to fire and save my bacon?
I guess what matters in this issue is not how old fashioned I may seem to be, but that I be considered heavily armed and not one of those six rounds is gonna fail......ever.;)

who cares what they think.....they got a nice gun, then use it.

[croyance]

ahhh. And to me, that smells of "Oh, I wanna have what keanu reeves or mel gibson used."Or Chow Yun-Fat.
It is what people see, it is what they concieve of when they think
gun".

[Thunderhawk88]

If I had to choose only one gun it would be a revolver. Thank God I don't have to make that choice.

[Tamara]

Why do people today see revolvers as "outdated" or "old men guns"?

Because people are stupid.

[Stainz]

Watch a Clint Eastwood movie - from his spaghetti westerns to 'Dirty Harry' to 'Bloodwork' - you'll see why some of us like revolvers. Okay, he wasn't much of a marksman early in 'Bloodwork', perhaps he didn't have the heart for it (Watch the movie... it's a goodie!). He did improve by the end of the movie - and his snubby 627 8-shooter developed a cult following (I'd love to have one!).

I do have one evil-bottom-feeder - a Ruger MKII and eight mags. It's about the most fun you can have with $3 worth of ammo (I had to increase the dollar amount - even .22LR has skyrocketed in price.). It's typically rude behaviour of tossing it's empties about carelessly reminds me of why I like revolvers - I reload for them!

Stainz

[hj28rules]

Ah, the ubiquitous, dependable revolver. Maybe limited firepower but absolute dependability. When I'm at my place out in West Texas, I carry my M66 .357.
The semi-autos usually stay at home. However, with that said, my duty HD is a Para Tac 4.
I see quite a number of folks of various ages shooting S&W, Ruger and Taurus wheelguns at the local range.

LM...Ft. Worth, Tx.
PO1 USN: 1964-1972 Viet Nam Vet
SFC US ARMY: 1982-1996 Desert Storm Vet (ret.)

[Manedwolf]

They do? I wasn't aware of this...

Because here's a scene from "Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex", an extremely popular (both in Japan and here) ensemble-cast cop drama anime set in the near future.

http://www.cuatro.com/multimedia/recorte.php?id=LCO&type=Ies&xref=20051106ctoultnot_21

The character is the rookie cop, the youngest of the team, and that's his sidearm of choice, a Mateba. :)

Also, here's another popular one, the series Trigun:

http://www.bsu.edu/classes/robinson/AV/Trigun.jpg

Looks like a revolver to me! It's a 45LC, at that.

And finally, here's my new toy, newly designed for the 21st century and vaunted as useful for anti-carjacking and "urban" settings, the Taurus "Judge".

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/4410TrackerSS.jpg

[Ernest T Bass]

I'm 35 and I only own wheelguns. I especially like older S&W revolvers. That's what I grew up shooting. I honestly don't care if people think my guns are "outdated" or "old men guns". I think that semi-auto pistols are too finicky and have too many small parts (to get lost or break) and are too particular about the ammo that you feed them and are more difficult to maintain and clean. I also don't like brass flying everywhere and having to pick it up when I'm at the range. With a revolver you just dump the brass into the bucket, while all the "cool" semi-auto guys crawl around on their belly trying to pick up their brass from under tables and benches...I guess that's what those rail-mounted flashlights are for. :D

[NoirFan]

Hello,

I am 22, and a fairly new shooter. When it came time to buy a gun for the first time, to me there was really only one conceivable choice: a blue steel S&W service revolver.

I mean come on, if weapon preference is determined by boyhood heroes, how can you possibly beat Indiana Jones, Dick Tracy, Harry Callahan, Phillip Marlowe, Togusa, et al? And don’t forget Batman: the Animated Series, the best cartoon of all time, where mobsters and police alike prowled Gotham City with revolvers in hand.

When I’ve taken non-gun-enthusiast friends to the range for the first time, many have asked why I don’t have a more “practical” gun, like a Glock! One friend even had the effrontery to ask why I bought that “old dueling pistol!” Of course their tunes always change when they warm up with some .38 specials, followed by several cylinders of magnums!

Kids these days….

[clem]

It's a great clip, but did you notice that at 1:37 where Reeves pulls out two 9mm SMG and lets fire. At 1:43 the ejected brass falling to his feet is bottle necked.

I have revolvers & semi-autos. Both have their uses.

[Doug.38PR]

I saw the bottle necked brass....but thought that must be what that submachine gun fired. Didn't know what kind it was.

Batman: the Animated Series, the best cartoon of all time, where mobsters and police alike prowled Gotham City with revolvers in hand.


Oh yeah!! I loved that show back in high school with the 40s era look to it. Mask of the Phantasm is my favorite Batman movie second to Batman Begins. The revolvers were all plain jane service .38s with fixed sights...but I think they usually had underlugs. Oh well, they were just animated revolvers. Hated it when they changed it with the Batman/Superman deal in the late 90s (The Joker looked more like a mime than a clown. Handguns were all weird semi autos with magazines on the bottom of the slide rather than in the grip of the gun)

[22-rimfire]

Only inexperienced shooters believe revolvers are outdated. But, I think younger people tend to prefer semi-auto firearms in general. I generally prefer revolvers, but I do my share of shooting with semi-autos as well. Revolvers give you more options on power in a workable sized handgun. As an example, I have never considered the Desert Eagle very practical (workable), but then you could say that about the BFRs and X-Frame Smiths too. With 22's, I recommend owning a revolver and a semi-auto. Having both allow you to share a gun with a shooting partner or shoot what you feel like that particular day.

[enikkor]

I've read the sale of S&W smaller revolvers has been strong for many years.
There is a need for a simple, small, reliable wheelgun that beginners or non
gun enthusiasts can grab for self defense. YOu load them and they are ready to fire. There is also a trend for larger longer powerful revolvers for hunting.

When I took gun classes, my teacher recommended a "revolver" for somebody
who is starting out. It is simple, they load the same, the triggers are the same
if you stick with one brand, if one bullet misfire, you can continue to shoot,
and they require less maintenance.

I've come to love them thru the years, even though I have pistols of many
calibers and kinds. I shoot more accurate with revolvers then semis.
The only advantage of semis is that, in theory, I can shoot faster , but
whether I hit the target is another topic.

[Manedwolf]

Oh yeah!! I loved that show back in high school with the 40s era look to it. Mask of the Phantasm is my favorite Batman movie second to Batman Begins. The revolvers were all plain jane service .38s with fixed sights...but I think they usually had underlugs. Oh well, they were just animated revolvers. Hated it when they changed it with the Batman/Superman deal in the late 90s (The Joker looked more like a mime than a clown. Handguns were all weird semi autos with magazines on the bottom of the slide rather than in the grip of the gun)

Ought to watch more "serious" anime...they're fanatical about depicting every aspect of the guns accurately, from operation, ejection and reloading to the proper rollmarks on the cylinder or frame. :)

Ghost in the Shell has startled me a few times by even showing someone doing a proper doubletap...plus there's been every sort of "real" gun shown from a Mateba to a Jericho to a Tokarev TT-33.

[RJM]

I prefer revolvers in general and I am only 33 years old, so I'm not an oldtimer, yet.

The one thing that is cool about purchasing a revolver is not having to go out and buy extra mags. YOu can just buy ammo, and lots of it. I also like the double action pull of some of my revolvers. I know its weird, but the longer trigger stroke makes me concentrate on my shot just a little bit more making me more accurate in the end.

[targetshootr]

I prefer wheelguns but if I'm ever in a firefight, I'm gonna do a few one-armed cartwheels just to see if it helps. :p

[Casimer]

"why do people see revolvers as..."

This attitude seems to be most prominent among people who insist that all firearms must be evaluated by their ability to rabidly put 10 shots into someone from 4 feet away. But in my experience, the guys who actually can put 10 well placed shots into someone in rapid order tend not to dismiss revolvers out of hand.

The funny thing is, at my club, shooting a K38 at 25 and 50yds seems to mark me as one of the 'serious' shooters. The novices are the ones shooting polymer autoloaders down at the 9yd range.

[GoSlash27]

Because semiautos are the weapon of choice in all the cool video games, T.V. shows, and movies. ;)
Black ones.
I like wheelguns, but I can't seem to find one I can shoot worth beans. I have the utmost respect for those that can. Especially since they tend to be able to reload faster than most semiauto shooters. :eek:

[Mike Irwin]

Uhm....

Because they're idiots?

[deadin]

Why do people today see revolvers as "outdated" or "old men guns"?

What people? Little wanna-be's that are barely out of diapers and are still playing shoot-em-up with Air-Soft and paintball? :barf::D:D

[JAXX]

You know, there is nothing like the "Cool Factor" I feel when I hold my 4" Python or my little SP101. They sure are pretty guns. That being said, if you find a semi-auto that is reliable for you, and comfotable for you to shoot, it's hard to beat the effiency of it. Especially a polymer framed weapon. I love my Sigma guys. It holds 15 rounds of .40 S&W and weighs less than my 2 3/4" security six. During the colder months, when it's easier to conceal weapons, the Sigma is on my belt. When the nicer months arrive, then it's time for my 2 1/4" SP101. I love my wheelguns, yet I love my semiautos as well. If I was going out to the range just to shoot for the fun of it, I would probably leave the semi at home.

[BoneDigger]

There is a percieved notion that everybody sees revolvers as outdated. I don't think this is necessarily true. The stores around here can't keep Smith 642/442 revolvers in stock and they sell better than pretty much anything else.

I think there is a lot of movie hype about revolvers and autos, in the fact that most "modern" shoot-em-up films involve high capacity handguns.

Todd

[Kreyzhorse]

To me, autos are the "in" guns as far as pop culture goes. They are glamourized in films, music and advertising. If I hear "tactical" one more time I'm gonna puke.

Personally, while I own a Glock and my next handgun will be a Colt 1911, I prefer revolvers. I like the history that goes with revolvers, but from an artistic standpoint, the lines and curves of a revolver are pleasing to the eye. Much more than a polymer "tactical" pistol. I'm 38 and always have been and always will be a revolver guy.

[Alex_L]

Why do people today see revolvers as "outdated" or "old men guns"?

Hmm... because they are? :cool:

[Manedwolf]

Honestly, also, I've never heard a single negative comment any time I've pulled out that big Taurus 4410 Judge with people at a range.

More like :eek::eek::eek: , accompanied by profanity, followed by :D,

[clayking]

I own both, but honestly admit a soft spot for revolvers. My son started shooting with me over the last year or so and only wanted a auto. Recently, he keeps asking me to pass over that Colt or that .45 ACP revolver, etc. etc. He's found out which he shoots better.....................ck

[fisherman66]

As long as I have no plans to sell, I'm not concerned about what others think about my preference in guns. I don't mind a little slack in the demand curve around buying time either.

[Webleymkv]

OK, here's my hypothesis (WARNING! A HISTORY LESSON IS INVOLVED):

In the early 1900's the armies of the world began to replace their revolvers with semi-automatic pistols. These included the Luger, C96 Broomhandle Mauser, and most importantly the M1911. This was done for a number of reasons. The auto's held a couple more rounds (seven or eight in the begining), they could be reloaded much faster (early speedloaders were crude and not widely used), and they recoiled slightly less for their caliber (in the case of a locked breech design). The two biggest reasons for the switchover that I see, however was that they were (at least in the case of the 1911) cheaper to make because less hand-fitting of parts was needed and because of the lack of hand fitting worn or broken parts could be more easily replaced. It must be noted that the switchover was not complete or instantaneous. The British held on to their Webley and Enfield revolvers as standard issue until after WWII, The United States made great use of Colt and S&W Revolver in both World Wars (many pilots held on to their revolvers well into the 1980's), the Russians did not completely replace their Nagant Revolvers until after WWII as did the Italians.

In 1935 the balance shifted even more in favor of the auto with the introduction of the Browning GP35 Hi-Power. Now you had a pistol that held 13 rounds, more than twice that of any full-caliber revolver, and could be reloaded much faster. The extra capacity was now much more attractive and for military purposes that is understandable. In 1929, Walther introduced the PP, the first successful double action semi-automatic. Up until this point, most armies had considered it too dangerous to carry a semi-automatic pistol with a loaded chamber and a cocked hammer. The DA feature on the PP (and the P38 nine years later) put the minds of many traditionalists at ease.

Meanwhile, American Police continued to be quite satisfied with their DA revolvers for another 80 years. Begining in 1935, American police had available to them a powerful new cartridge, the .357 Magnum. This cartridge gained in popularity until by the early 1980's it was the most widley used cartridge among American Police. This was because the .357 has an excellent reputation as a fight stopper and most police agencies saw little need to improve upon it. By the mid to late 80's, Police began to be seduced by the same qualities that had won the military over to auto's years earlier. By the mid 90's the majority of Police were using semi-automatic pistols.

Many civilians, seeing the military and police use of autos, determined that this must be the best type of arm available and therefore decided to adopt them. This phenomenon was helped along by writers like Jeff Cooper (who said that the 1911 was an expert's gun and that the layman was better served with a DA Revolver) and Charles Askins. Finally, many Veterans had used and grown to like autos during their military service and decided to continue to use such a weapon after their service. Finally, many action movie story lines involve police or soldiers. Because the semi-automatic is the weapon most often used by these individuals, they get the most face time in movies. Of course the gun in the latest action-flick has more cool-factor than Grandpa's old six-shooter.

What is failed by many to take into account is that the requirements of a soldier or policeman and those of the ordinary citizen are often quite different and basing one's desicions on movies is very unwise. It is a rare occasion that the average joe will need a dozen rounds or a speedy reload. However, unlike a Soldier or Policeman, the average joe will rarely recognize danger until it is upon him (often quite literally). A revolver can still run itself dry when fired from point-blank range or from under a garment. The average citizen is not as well trained as a soldier or cop, so the omission of a rap-tap-bang drill makes the situation much easier. A misfire in a revolver is rectified with another pull of the trigger. Also, a revolver's simplicity is an advantage for a less trained individual: just aim and squeeze the trigger, if there are rounds in the cylinder then it will fire. The revolver, particularly with the recent use of exotic metals, offers a greater power to size ratio than an auto (what auto can give you 741fpe energy from a 26oz package like the S&W 329 can?). Finally, a revolver will typically provide better accuracy than a full caliber, service grade locked breech auto (I don't see nearly as many hunters with autos as I do with magnum revolvers).

I am 20 years old and much better served with a revolver. When something goes bump in the night, I reach for my 4" S&W M28 rather than my CZ-75 or S&W 1076. When I exercise my CCW rights (one can legally carry a gun at the age of 18 in my home state of Indiana) my 2.5" S&W M66 is on my hip, not my Walther PP. My 23-year-old boss (who carries a Glock 23) says that I must think I'm 40 (due to my tastes in guns, movies, and music), but I'm a much better shot than he is. Accuracy, reiability, simplicity, and power: these traits are what made me and will keep me a revolver guy. If someone wants to call my handguns outdated, antique, substandard, or "old guy guns" they can go right ahead; I highly doubt they'd volunteer to be shot by one of them.

[Sarge]

I don't think anyone with much time on a gun-handle sees it that way, Doug. People who do hold such opinions are usually so caught up in whatever's the 'going thing' that they never give the proven designs a second look.

I also find that they often equate 'old' with those born during the era when the proven designs made their reputations- and it carries over to guns other than revolvers. I often carry an iron-sighted 94 Winchester hunting, and when I run across folks with high-tech boltguns, they eye my little carbine with disdain. I also carry a bare-bones 1911. The 'Basic 1911', sans beavertails, Novaks and front serrations, is apparently now considered by many to be less than desirable for serious applications. Being an adherent to the KISS principle, that's exactly the way I want mine.

Same reason I still prefer a good fixed-sight revolver, incidentally. Unfortunately, it seems like all the guns I like are just about unavailable new...maybe I am getting old ;)

[MDman]

revolvers are dated, and for some applications outdated. the military and the police both use autos for a reason. Of course revolvers have their place, I think I would rather hunt with a revolver, but for tactical applications the semi autos make more sense.

[T3hK1w1]

Well, the way I see it, autos are just so high-profile in movies/other media nowadays that people automatically think of them when they think of handguns, and think of old western movies when they see revolvers. That being said, I myself am about to turn 21 and will be buying a handgun, mostly for defense against feral hogs out on our deer lease. When I first started looking I did not even consider a revolver and had decided on a CZ 75...I changed my mind when I started seriously considering just how useful a 9mm round(or 16) would be against an angry 300lb russian boar. I have since decided that I will most likely be getting a Ruger GP100 .357 mag in 4" (and wishing they made it in .41 mag). Bottom line is that for the first 6 rounds, a revolver seems to me to have the advantage.

[h518may]

it's not just the movies nowadays that depict the semi auto as the only cool or " legitimate " handgun, it's the gun magazines! if you're lucky, you might get two articles on revolvers in a typical handgun magazine and the rest will be about semi autos, particularly 1911 style .45's. i see special mags come out like complete guide to autopistols, book of the 1911, glock annual. just once, i'd like to see the complete guide to revolvers, or revolvers getting their fair shake in the mags. i like both styles and own and shoot both, however if i had to choose just one or was forced to, it would be my .357 6 shooter! and i'm only 36!

[Ilovea45]

I like both revolvers and semi-autos, however I carry a semi-auto the majority of the time now. I do still carry the 2" Python every now and then because it's much easier to conceal and lighter than most of my semi-autos, and because I just like the look of the Python.

I carried a revolver for several years in my line of work, but a few years ago we switched to SW Mod 5946's. A reliable but very heavy weapon.

We will soon switch to SW M&P's. There are still a few however, who prefer and still carry the SW Model 64 revolvers.

GK
Tampa, FL

[lockedcj7]

I own both and carry both depending on the situation. I think the mistrust of autos among wheel-gun fans goes back to the days when autos were less than reliable. The revolver design had been refined to the point that they were/are very reliable and autos were still new and many bugs needed to be worked out. I've seen/owned several in that category.

Fast-forward to today when most autos have been refined to the point that they too are ultra-reliable. (I've seen revolvers that would bind up and not allow the cylinder to rotate and not fire in DA mode so I know they can be unreliable too.)

That being said, each has its advantages and disadvantages and since most choices are compromises, we choose the one that best suits our perceived needs.

[Sarge]

Speaking of perception- we might do well to remember that reliability is a function of proper design and quality control. Once the design is sorted out, all that remains is to get the proper parts-made from the proper materials, given the proper hardness and finished to the proper dimensions- properly installed. A good handgun design is much like a Briggs & Stratton engine. If you get the right parts in the right places, the dang thing just can't help but run.

This all applies to autos & revolvers equally. Revolvers are thought to be essentially immune to ammo-related failures, yet one of the commonest causes of misfires with revolvers is insuffucient mainspring tension. People fiddle around with something that 'can't help but run' and in their quest for a six-pound DA pull, they create a dangerous doorstop.

Then there are the manufacturers... I have read numerous posts in the past two years where someone's new SP101 binds up at the range. I used to recommend the SP without reservation, because the one we had 5 years ago was perfect. But since Ruger seems to have let a number out that weren't properly assembled, I have withdrawn that recommendation. If you get a good one, they're fine. If you don't get a good one, you'd be better off with a Kel-Tec 9mm.

The QC situation with 1911s has gotten so ridiculous that I just rebuild them myself, from the frame out. Luckily frames (even cheap ones) are better than ever, and good magazines for this gun are everywhere.

A lot of factors can dictate whether a particular handgun is reliable or not. and experience has taught me that 'auto or revolver' is way down on that list of deciding factors.

[DAdams]

Here is a 2007 revolver. S&W M&P 340. .357, night sights, I have laser grips not shown in this photo, 14 oz, titanium and stainless.
With the boutique rounds Buffalo Bore 158gr low flash, low recoil powders....rather modern application of prior technology = vast improvements.

I rest my case.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/P5220027.jpg

[100W_Warlock]

454 Raging Bull with 340gr hotloads will put all autos to shame.
[same can be said for the 460 and 500 S&W...]

I don't shoot it all that terribly often with heavy loads, but, it sure is fun.
[Just the look of it coming out of the pistol case makes folks stand back]

Most of my range time is spent with 357 magnums and 45 long colt.

Although, 45acp 1911s and 9mm Sub2000 have their place in the range bag as well.

[Diggers]

GREAT MOVIE!!:D May be they like throw away guns??? ;)


People take their que from the "pros" out there, cops, military all use autos so people think they must be better.

And in some ways they are better (yeah I said it) holding more ammo is a pretty big plus......for cops and military..... seeing that they tend to get into long lasting fire fights at times.

For the rest of us 6 shots is probably more than enough.

[Mantua]

Both myself and my woman HATE the way auto's look. More moving parts = more things that can *possibly* break, one more reason we're both sticking with revolvers.

And if there's something that ya cant kill with 6 rounds, you need a bigger gun or something smaller to shoot at.

[armoredman]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/PICT0257.jpg

[maikell77]

Relvolers may reload slower and hols less, but I'll hit what I'm aiming at. Don't get me wrong autoloaders are fine for plinking, I have a 1911 that I love. My BFR and my blackhwak Hunter will hit bullseyes clear out to 75+ yards. Show me an autoloader that can do that for under a grand and I might change my mind. Oh and by the way I'm 23, so not all of us young punks are sensless.

[Webleymkv]

revolvers are dated, and for some applications outdated. the military and the police both use autos for a reason.

for tactical applications the semi autos make more sense.

What kind of tactical application are we talking about? From the military and poice standpoint I can see the advantage of an auto, but I don't really see it for the civilian.

Speaking of perception- we might do well to remember that reliability is a function of proper design and quality control. Once the design is sorted out, all that remains is to get the proper parts-made from the proper materials, given the proper hardness and finished to the proper dimensions- properly installed. A good handgun design is much like a Briggs & Stratton engine. If you get the right parts in the right places, the dang thing just can't help but run.


This is true to a point. However, there is another variable that is overlooked: ammunition. Have you ever had a bad primer? I have. With an auto one has to manually eject the dud and cycle a new one. A Briggs & Stratton Engine doesn't run all that well when you mix water into the gasoline. With a revolver, however, one must simply pull the trigger again to clear the misfire. Also, even the best auto will likely jam if fired at point blank range or from under a garment: The Briggs & Stratton doesn't run all that well upside down or with the moving parts in contact with a foreign object. The revolver is less likley to be put out of comission by such a situation. Finally, one of the most common failures in an auto is the magazine. The most finely crafted auto will quickly be useless due to a bent feed lip or a worn spring. A revolver eliminates this complication.

[Logos]

I like what works.

Revolvers work for some things.

Autos work for other things.

I use the right gun for the job at hand.

The double-action revolver will inevitably go the way of the single-action revolver, the muzzle-loader and the sword.

Time marches on.

[fisherman66]

The double-action revolver will inevitably go the way of the single-action revolver, the muzzle-loader and the sword.

Time marches on.

That sir is a bold statement. I disagree.

[Doug.38PR]

^ I disagree as well

Even the Single Action Revolver still has it's place....even as a defensive weapon for some. I would feel better armed with a SAA than I would a .25 or even .32 auto. In fact, I would feel better armed with a SAA than with a 5 shot .38 snub nose even in +P

The DA revolver is simple and it works. I would go so far as to say it is still an adequate if not superior police side arm. (I know about 95% of all LEOs in here probably disagree with me on that).

Fewer things can go wrong with a revolver. Wider variety of ammo can be used in a revolver. Stronger loads can be used in a revolver. If you need "lots of bullets" then you are going on the offensive and need a rifle not a handgun. Faster reloading abilities come into play if the Red Chinese army is charging up the hill at you as an officer in the military, but the advent of speedloaders have easily made up for that with a revolver.

The plain jane .38 Special revolver or .357 Magnum will be with us a long time. Semi Autos are only a decade or so younger than DA revolvers. It's not until recently that semi autos have become preferable among Law Enforcement. Even in the Military revolvers had a place well into the 1980s as simple sidearms for MPs.

[2rugers]

The high capacity thing is where it is at these days.

If your gun doesn't hold umpteen sumpin rds. you are obviously undergunned.

Spray and pray has taken the place of skill and practice.

I have had the hi-cap nines in the past (AND YES THEY ALL JAMMED ONCE IN AWHILE) but as I have aged revolvers have replaced all but the two Ruger MKII's I shoot every once in a blue moon now.

Holding a big steel revolver with those "SIX FER SURE" always seems to make me all tingly and stuff.

Also a little known fact came to me one day during an extended plinking session with both Autos and Revos:

An average shooter will fire a few hundred rds. through a revolver faster than he will or can through an automatic.
Try it sometime and you will see what I mean.

[NorfolkSoutherner]

Ernest T Bass: a big plus 1 to you!!!

I'm also 35 and love the wheelies (although I do confess to having 2 really slick 1911's).

I guess we're of the last generation before the big auto-loader craze really went into effect.

I don't believe the revolver will ever go away. For every guy I know that CCW's a PPK or Bersa 380 I know five more that carry a S&W J-frame .357 or some variant (Chief's Special, M&P, etc) or a cool Colt Detective Special. And they aren't all old guys.

[Sgt.Fathead]

I used to post quite a bit over at the Shotgun World News forums, especially the Tactical Shotgun Threads. But I gotta' tell all; I got damn sick of pictures of Mossbergs and Benellis and Remingtons tricked out like the guy was expecting a full scale invasion. The debate would rage over what was the best light, laser, grips, stocks, sidesaddles, slings, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

It was all the same argument underneath; Mossberg 500 vs. Remington 870, Chevy Camaro vs. Ford Mustang, Foreign Motorsysle vs. American Motorcycle, Smith vs. Ruger, Glock vs. 1911, etc, etc, again.

I like revolvers because I don't expect to find myself back in The Corps, where maximum rounds down range really meant something. I do not expect to repel boarders, go on a night patrol, fight off waves of attackers from a fighting hole and/or deal with CQB situations here in my quiet neighborhood. However, should I have to defend my home, my life, that of my wife, our gear from looters, etc., my trusty wheel gun (yes, a Ruger GP100 .357 4" stainless) and my pump gun (yes, a Remington 870) will do the job.

On the movie note, in John Cusack's film "Grosse Point Blank", Dan Akroyd completes a hit on several individuals in front of a hotel while posing as a doorman. He uses what appear to be a pair of 6" Pythons to do the job at point blank range. In "From Dusk Til Dawn", George Clooney's character uses a .44 Magnum snubnose behemoth. It ain't all autos!

[fisherman66]

Logos, as long as arms designers can't fit 44 mags and higher energy cartridges in autos in an acceptable size format revolvers will continue to have the performance edge on autos for hunting purposes. Perhaps it time for you to troll the blackpowder forum and let them all know how useless their smoke pole is. Be prepared to see some venison. Then you can find an archery forum and troll bait them too. Be prepared to see some venison there too.

Thank goodness we have the ignore feature. I will work until the sun supernovas and the days of revolvers end.

[Logos]

No need to get angry and defensive, it's just a fact.

Time marches on.

Weapons systems with revolving cylinders are on the way out. Like black powder and swords and bows and arrows, they will become oddities used in special niches of sports......used for reasons of nostalgia, not efficacy.

When you travel, you don't go out and saddle up a horse, do you?

No.....you drive a car.

It's not like autoloaders are going to rule forever, by the way.

They too, will be replaced by new technology, and probably sooner than we think.

[22-rimfire]

Logos: You're entitled to your opinion as I am. Revolvers are seeing a come back with interest in the smaller reliable pocket revolvers for concealed carry as well as increasing interest for the larger caliber revolvers for hunting or whatever use you like. Maybe you just like a big bang?

Many thought the multi-barrel gatling gun was outdated. I think you should talk to the military if you believe that.

If I were going into combat, I'd have a pistol. For most civilian needs, revolver is more than plenty. I don't conceal a handgun in a combat situation.

Revolvers aren't going away anytime soon. They last several lifetimes. The things that make things outdated are the caliber and I don't think a reduction of the traditional favorite caliber in revolvers will be slow down or end any time soon. Just look at the 41 magnum. It's going strong for being so outdated. Look at that 45-70; going strong.

Time does march on.

[DMZX]

22 Rimfire is right about a resurgence of revolvers. Snubbies are selling very well due to prices, new metallurgy, good knock down power in a small package, and aging baby boomers wanting a simple, reliable CCW.

[Logos]

The Gatling gun uses a magazine.....that's what sets it apart from the obsolete designs and renders it suitable for modern military applications.

The closest thing the revolver has to a magazine is a speed-loader......clumsy, bulky and slow and rejected by the military.

The 45-70 is going strong? Again, this is a nostalgia thing. It is not a caliber of choice for most applications. The military rejected it 150 years ago.

The .41 Magnum is not outdated. It simply never caught on well because the ballistics were almost identical to the .44 Magnum, so most of us figured we might as well stick with the .44 Magnum.

Weapons systems are constantly changing and improving. John Browning caused a sea-change in weapons possibilities and Gaston Glock started a powerful wave within that same sea.

Yes, we're all entitled to our opinions and equally entitled to be set in our ways and ignore reality that looms right in front of us.

Time marches on for all......and marches past some.

It even marches OVER some.......as Native Africans and Native Americans found out when devastated by modern weapons.

[DMZX]

Article Excerpt:


Handgun sales have remained steady this summer, a trend begun a year ago. Following Sept. 11, 2001, civilian gun sales increased dramatically. Then, self-defense handguns were the dominant sellers. Today many handguns sold are for more casual purposes.

While customers show some distinct regional preferences, gun dealers who are flexible and address shooters' concerns make the most sales. The message: Know the trends, but be prepared to meet each customer's needs.

What's Selling?

Handgun manufacturers tell you which of their products are selling, and sometimes they can even tell you why. Frequently, just knowing what models are moving reveals the customer's motivation.

For example, in small revolvers, Smith & Wesson's lightweight Models 642, 442 and 342 PD are selling well.

"They're in demand for personal protection," said Ken Jorgensen of Smith & Wesson. "The revolvers, which weigh from 11 to 15 ounces, can be carried all day without causing any stress."

Richard Sprig of Sprig Sport and RV in Yuma, Ariz., verifies this, indicating may of his customers are retired senior citizens.

"Some of these folks have lost the physical skills necessary to operate the slides on semi-auto pistols," Sprig said. "They like the simplicity and readiness of the revolver. Their other preference is the easy loading offered by the tip-up barrel of some Beretta semi-autos."

Senior citizens are also steady customers at Hill Country Arms, in Kerrville, Texas. There, more small-frame steel Taurus revolvers are sold, compared to the company's titanium models. According to Frank Moniz, the steel revolvers are easier and gentler for Texan seniors to shoot than their titanium counterparts.

[PeteQuad]

Logos, I don't understand exactly what you are saying. Are you saying that the military or police will no longer use revolvers? If so, that is already true and no one will argue with you there.

Exactly what is going to happen to revolvers as opposed to semis? Will they sell less well? Maybe, maybe not - who would have thought of Apple's resurgence amid PC dominance? What does it matter which sells better anyway?

The point is people are still using revolvers, buying new ones, etc. If the reason is nostalgia, hunting, self-defense, what's the difference? Do you think that at some point no one will sell them? If so, I would point you to the very items you mentioned earlier - I myself have bought newly made swords and black powder weapons. So that's not going to happen.

I guess I just don't understand what you mean by "time marches on" other than stating a truism.

[BikerRN]

Time may march on, but I'm stuck in a time warp.

I carry an N-Frame 45 caliber as my EDC when off-duty. Of course on-duty I carry what they give me, an autoloader. I've picked up a new sport, CAS. There the S.A. Revolver is anything but dead.

I think Revolvers are harder to master, but once you do it makes you a better shot with any firearm. Revolvers are much simpler in some instances, but to be really good they are harder.

I don't consider myself really good, but I'm going to keep trying to become really good. I'm in my forties, been carrying a gun daily for over twenty years. I jumped on the "Hi-Cap" craze after the "Miami Shootout" and now I've come full circle and I'm back to using wheelguns.

Partly I use a wheelgun because of nostalgia, and partly for health reasons. I have a "bum" arm, and the Revolver is easier on my arm than trying to jack the slide. I also find that the Revolver point shoots better than an autoloader. Trust me, at "Bad Breath Distance" you will be using unsighted fire too. Try jamming an autoloader in your opponents belly and squeezing the trigger. Chance are you will not get it to fire, since you've taken it out of battery. This is not a concern of the Revolver.

Simpler to operate, easier to load for me due to health reasons, more accurate and much more fun to shoot. I'll stick with my S.A and D.A. wheelguns. :)

Biker

[springmom]

Many civilians, seeing the military and police use of autos, determined that this must be the best type of arm available and therefore decided to adopt them. This phenomenon was helped along by writers like Jeff Cooper (who said that the 1911 was an expert's gun and that the layman was better served with a DA Revolver) and Charles Askins. Finally, many Veterans had used and grown to like autos during their military service and decided to continue to use such a weapon after their service. Finally, many action movie story lines involve police or soldiers. Because the semi-automatic is the weapon most often used by these individuals, they get the most face time in movies. Of course the gun in the latest action-flick has more cool-factor than Grandpa's old six-shooter.


And that sums it up, right there.

On a side note, we went out shooting last week, and I took my revolvers. (I am currently on a crusade to totally master the DA trigger, but that's another story). At any rate, I had my little m37, our 66-3, and my SRH (I bought the 9 1/2 inch version for hunting). An old man had his son and his wife/girlfriend out to the range, because son was going to take the CHL class and wanted a gun for the house for protection. The old man came up, eyes WIDE, mimicking the size of the SRH with his hands and asking what it was. So we talked about all of them for awhile, and they went off to shoot his rifle a few stands over. As I was packing up to leave later, they were still there. I went over and tapped him on the shoulder. "Wanna shoot that .44?" "YEAH!"

I had brought .44 specials with me for target practice, and I told him he wouldn't get the magnum's kick, but he was still sort of braced for it. First shot into the bullseye, and he got the biggest grin...."I expected it to kick!" He shot off the other five rounds, and he kept them all in the 9 ring or the bullseye, not bad for a first time with that gun.

I don't know which of us had the bigger grin, as we left.

At any rate, revolvers are a middle-aged woman's gun too, apparently :D

Springmom

[springmom]

As a previous post relates, small DAs are being purchased by senior citizens who just want a simple, small gun.


Hey. Watch it, sonny <waves cane at young whippersnapper>.

No, J-frames are purchased by people who need good concealment. Down here in south Texas, in this heat, not too many people are going to be wearing layers to conceal a 1911 in July, Logos. However, a J-frame in the pocket? LOTS of us carry them, at least part of the time. In fact, a J-frame for an older person may be a poor choice, if hand strength and arthritis are serious problems. I have arthritis and I shoot a m37 airweight, but I'm pretty motivated to practice. Were my arthritis worse, the J-frame would get traded for a steel-frame that absorbed recoil better.

Back up your statement with statistics, if you have them. But the anecdotal evidence on this board, at least, and over on THR (when it's up :() says you're wrong.

Springmom

[Manedwolf]

Time marches on.

Weapons systems with revolving cylinders are on the way out. Like black powder and swords and bows and arrows, they will become oddities used in special niches of sports......used for reasons of nostalgia, not efficacy.

As I mentioned earlier, is that why Taurus JUST introduced their 4410 Judge, and is making a new model for 3" magnum shells in ultralight alloy? A gun designed specifically for close urban defense and anti-carjacking, one that can seriously mess up a bad guy at those distances?

Hm. Brand-new revolvers in titanium and exotic alloys with fiberoptic sights, designed for urban self-defense against meth-heads who might not even know they're shot unless they're REALLY shot.

Show me a semiauto outside of a Desert Eagle's cartoonish oversized uselessness that can chamber a cannon round like a .454 Casull, 44 Magnum or, now, a .410 shotshell with three or five large balls of #000 with every shot.

Sometimes, you want a cannon without carrying a ridiculously oversized gun. Thus, revolvers, which can handle those rounds.

Yeah, that's on the way out, right...

[Logos]

Were my arthritis worse, the J-frame would get traded for a steel-frame that absorbed recoil better.

Apparently she doesn't know that the J-frame is made in steel-frame.

J-frames are hard to master and are better used by practiced and expert shooters.....but are most often purchased by neophytes without much gun knowledge who drop them into a purse or pocket and feel safe.

And that's ok. It's good to feel safe even if you could do far better.

[MCCALL911]

Why do people today see revolvers as "outdated" or "old men guns"?

Well, if they think that way, then let 'em.
That means better prices for those of us who think differently.

[Logos]

Quote:
Why do people today see revolvers as "outdated" or "old men guns"?
Well, if they think that way, then let 'em.
That means better prices for those of us who think differently.

Yes, lack of demand DOES drive prices down. Just look at any gun counter for verification.

[Manedwolf]

Uh...Logos?

Go into any gun store. Ask if you can get a 4410. They're BACKORDERED up to six weeks most places, especially for the stainless. :) They can't keep them in stock!

And a self-defense TV show did a test of one at carjacking distance in an SUV. It tore the silhouette target up very effectively. They endorsed it.

Might want to check on that before gnawing on the other foot...

The video's at http://www.taurususa.com/video/taurus-theJudge-video.cfm

[Logos]

When something is backordered it can mean that it's a good product or it can mean that masses of easily-influenced and ignorant people have been convinced by slick videos that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Hmmmmm......a big .410 revolver.....now why would any person of normal intelligence choose it over a 1911 in .45 for repelling bad guys?

:D

Let's see if it's backordered by next summer. Bet the rush is over.

[Manedwolf]

Why? Let's see, here's the loadout in mine for a house gun.

#4 shot
#00 shot
#00 shot

followed by two 45 Long Colt +P hollowpoints by Cor-Bon, delivering more of a thump than a 45ACP.

And so, let's see. You're endorsing a 1911, a 96-year-old design with limited capacity and less tolerance for hollowpoint feeding than newer designs, over a gun designed from the ground up just last year.

Who's outdated now?

[jhgreasemonkey]

I think there will always be shooters with a prefference for revolvers out there. WHile it may not be the most popular some people do discover the advantages of simplicity and reliability at some point. I started out shooting handguns gung ho for high capacity semi autos and the first gun I purchased was an hk usp. I later began finding that revovlers are a whole lot of fun and serve there own purposes as well. Especially in larger bore handguns.

[Logos]

I agree.

And there will always be shooters with a preference for black powder out there, too.

But they are a small share of the market.

[springmom]

Apparently she doesn't know that the J-frame is made in steel-frame.

J-frames are hard to master and are better used by practiced and expert shooters.....but are most often purchased by neophytes without much gun knowledge who drop them into a purse or pocket and feel safe.

And that's ok. It's good to feel safe even if you could do far better.


Appearances can be deceiving. Yes, I know there are J-frames in steel, My point was that MINE is an airweight. And I've mastered it just fine, thank you very much.

If you despise revolvers so, what the heck are doing on this subforum?

Springmom

[Shakey357]

If the question is still why are revolvers seen as outdated or "old mans" guns; I do think age is a large factor. All of my friends who went into law enforcement (early to mid 80's) were issued or had to buy revolvers. Mostly M19's to start but 686's near the end. '91 or '92. A lot of those used weapons are still around (although getting more and more rare). In the '90s, entrance into revolver shooting was pretty cheap; due to this surplus of used weapons. Can the words "cheap" and "SIG" or "Kimber" ever be used together? As for which is better - auto's or wheelguns - the answer should be (IMHO) whatever let's you hit the intended target consistantly. I can do okay with my Novak customized 4566 - I can hit a grapefruit consistantly at 50' with my GP100 loaded with 38+p SXT's. I'll taker the revolver.

[MCCALL911]

(Suggestion: Don't feed the trolls. ;) )

[2rugers]

Autos may be a bigger share of the market, but that is because so much of the market really knows nothing about handguns.

If they were more experienced instead of just choosing whatever hi-cap
rap artist Ice-Cube or Ice-Milk or is it Icey-Hot, (damn I forget) just used in his latest drive by shoot'em up movie they would surely buy more revolvers.

[Geronimo45]

Video Games and Hollywood. In Video Games, I've seen the Webley revolver... and it's usually worthless. Pretty good stopping power, but very slow to reload. Aside from its unique appearance, it's viewed as worthless. The Nagant revolver, doubly so.
Hollywood finds racking the slide on an automatic and slamming in a new magazine to be more 'cool' than inserting a speedloader and closing the cylinder of a wheelgun.

I think Revolvers are harder to master
Wm. Fairbairn found the same thing to be true, back in the '30s. He found that you could qualify somebody to shoot with an automatic quicker than you could to shoot with a revolver.

Any insight as to why that's so, though?

[springmom]

When the baby-boomers are gone.....the revolvers will slowly fade away.


Hm. I'll have to tell my 18-year old son that he's really about to retire, then, because he wants my SRH for his 21st birthday.

Still haven't seen any data to back up this theory that revolvers are on their way out....:rolleyes:

Springmom

[crowbeaner]

When the local PD [at the time] confiscated all my handguns due to an unfounded DV complaint, all but one were wheelguns. The lone auto was a Colt 10mm. I believe the comment was 'Holy **** he's got more ammo than we do downtown'. Nuff said. 18 pieces gone.

[ArfinGreebly]

To quote my own son:
Hey, Dad, it's the nineties!

People are fickle. People do fads. I want a Glock 7.

Revolvers are boring. I prefer the aesthetics of a brick. Who the heck wants a gun with no takedown procedure, anyway? Give me lots of small moving parts and tight springs any day. Reliability is overrated.

Anyway, it's all about spraying lead nowadays. That whole "aimed shooting" thing is passé.

Face it, springmom, it's all over for revolvers. Send me yours and I'll see to it they spend their sunset years feeling useful.

You know why I only have one revolver? 'Cuz I don't have the money for ten. I will, though.

Oh, and I actually DID sell my [steel] J-frame, on account of . . . my (arthritic) hand just isn't up to the punishment. So now I have something with a little more mass. Doesn't conceal worth a darn, but it doesn't hurt me either.

For all of you who feel that your revolver is just so . . . pedestrian . . . just PM me and I'll give you the address of my local FFL. I'll send back the ones I don't like.

I'll bet someone reading this thread has some mouth-watering revolver ****.

I mean, with them being all obsolete and stuff, that wouldn't be sexy anyway, now would it?

[Guy B. Meredith]

The great unwashed masses are trend slaves.

[springmom]

Face it, springmom, it's all over for revolvers. Send me yours and I'll see to it they spend their sunset years feeling useful.



ROTFL! Nice try, AG. But they're feeling pretty useful as is. Hunting deer, concealed carry...they know they're loved :D

Springmom

[Plink]

I think it's mostly just the young bucks, or those who came up during the "wondernine" years that see them as outdated. I went through that phase in my teens and early 20's also.

I felt revolvers and 1911's were antiquated junk and that we had so many newer, better designs available. Youth tends to inspire a "newer must be better" mentality. I guess it's all the "new and improved" commercials on TV or something.

(Edit: I just read back through the thread. Notice all the movie references in this thread? There's a big part of the answer. There's a nonstop stream of movie references in almost all gun threads. To me, a movie reference has about as much relevence in a gun thread, as a lunch meat reference has in a race car thread. It's just sad.)

I even stopped shooting real black powder because a new substitute (Pyrodex) hit the market back then (the 70's). It didn't perform as well, but you couldn't convince me of that because it was new and "high tech". A few years later, I admitted defeat and went back. Same with revolvers, 1911s, lever action rifles, and double barrelled shotguns. Amazing what a little maturity does for one's perspective.

Also, the revolver doesn't lend itself well to the new "spray and pray" mentality. It puts the responsibility for effectiveness squarely on the shooter's marksmanship skills. Skills that a lot of folks feel insecure about, so having umpteen bazillion rounds somehow compensates for it. Plus it's hard to attach all the uber tacticool stuff like flashlights, lasers, curb feelers, etc., to a revolver.

I ended up switching from a revolver to an auto for concealled carry, simply because autos are flatter. They conceal easier for my body shape and clothing choices.

[Plink]

or it can mean that masses of easily-influenced and ignorant people have been convinced by slick videos that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.


I agree with that. It's a big part of what's driving the autoloader movement too. The "oh so hip and trendy" types can't resist buying the coolest new stuff they see on TV and in movies. I'm not against autoloaders at all. In fact I own more of them than I do revolvers. I'm just against the mindless fad-slaves who are brainwashed by pop culture and too blind to see it. Trend is just a polite word for fad. It's all just hoolahoops and frisbees.

[Larry Ashcraft]

Single action revolvers have been around for, what, 150 years? They're still makin' 'em.

Double action revolvers have been around for probably 120 years or so. Guess what, they're still making them too.

Auto pistols have been around for well over 100 years, and they don't seem to have made revolvers obsolete yet.

Fading into obsolescence? Well, maybe, but I think your great-grandkids will fade into obsolescence first. :rolleyes:

And, do a little research. The Taurus Judge is a HUGE success.

[jad0110]

As for which is better - auto's or wheelguns - the answer should be (IMHO) whatever let's you hit the intended target consistantly. I can do okay with my Novak customized 4566 - I can hit a grapefruit consistantly at 50' with my GP100 loaded with 38+p SXT's. I'll taker the revolver.

You hit the nail on the head. I’ve got absolutely nothing against autos. I just prefer my wheelguns because I can shoot them better. 1911s are an exception for me, as I shoot them as good as my revolvers, so I will be adding a 1911 in the near future. However, it will be a no-frills mil-spec 1911, as I just don’t like a lot of fancy shmancy doodads.

Also, the revolver doesn't lend itself well to the new "spray and pray" mentality. It puts the responsibility for effectiveness squarely on the shooter's marksmanship skills. Skills that a lot of folks feel insecure about, so having umpteen bazillion rounds somehow compensates for it.

Though I'm certain there are revolver shooters out there that resort to "spray and pray", I have yet to actually see it. And to be fair, I see a lot of good auto shooters too. But I have seen some pretty attrocious marksmanship with autos too. And I am no great shot myself, but I feel like I do reasonably well. As I related on THR, before it was under constant attack :mad:, I saw a guy with a Glock 19 and a 33 round dump the entire deal into a target at 7 yards (well, in the general direction of said target). I was about 30 feet down the line from him, but I counted about 6 to 10 holes in the paper, with perhaps 3 or 4 being COM hits.

How does that caliber saying go? "You can't miss fast enough with a 45 to win a gun fight." Well, the same is true of "You can't miss fast enough with a hi-cap mag to win a gunfight." However, you can miss fast enough to hit every bystander in range, guaranteeing you years in a cozy cell and lots of ammo for the antis for the rest of us. Again, I'm not knocking autos or auto shooters in general, just those who's only criteria is how many rounds can be squeezed into the gun. I often smile at those that agonize between gun A that holds 16 rounds and gun B that holds 17, despite the fact that they admit to shooting gun A better.

It's hard for something to be obsolete when it serves it's user well. I am a better shot with a DA revolver than an auto (save for the aforementioned 1911), in slow and especially rapid fire. There is something about a long, DA pull with positive, smooth resistance that really enables me to be more precise with my trigger finger; unlike the mushy pull of my XD9.

And on a final note, if my threat assessment of my local area included a realistic possibility of needing more than the 5 to 7 rounds available in my revolvers, I would not be spending my money on a wonder nine. I'd be spending it on a better house in a better neighborhood, far far away. And in the meantime, I would add a pump shotgun to my collection. I read an interesting post over on THR that made the following point: The extra rounds of an auto probably won't save you if you are heavily outnumbered by many armed, dangerous attackers ... it just means you'll be able to take more of them with you.

BTW, since most shotguns only hold 6 to 9 rounds, does that not make them obsolete too? I'm a generous guy, I'd be more than willing to relieve anyone of their antiquated shotties and wheelies for absolutely no charge!

In the end, choose what you shoot best and is reliable, be it an auto or a wheelie.

I'll bet someone reading this thread has some mouth-watering revolver ****.

Ask and you shall receive :D ...


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Model%2014%20and%2017/IMG_1632.jpg


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Model%20686%20Plus%20357%20Magnum/IMG_1587.jpg


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Model%20686%20Plus%20357%20Magnum/IMG_1568.jpg


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Model%2014%2038%20Special/IMG_1593.jpg



EDITED TO ADD:

Oh yeah, for the record I am 28 years old and my wheelies outnumber my autos 4 to 1. At the local ranges, the ratio is about 70% autos, 30% revolvers. And on average, the revolver shooters are younger. That sucks for those of us wanting to get great deals on guns no one else wants!

[NCLivingBrit]

I've been clamouring for guns since I was six years old. I was raised on 70's Guns and Ammo annuals and the now defunct British shooting magazines.

I've finally gotten to a sane land where guns are available without the massive problems (although there's plenty, just not like back home) of the UK and I've found myself limited by bugdet more than anything else.

Rifles came first, as milsurps are cheap, fun and battle proven (M91/30 and a Yugo SKS). Shotgun was next, so the wife and I can defend the homestead (Mossberg 500a). I'm 35, new to shooting sports and definitely new to defensive shooting and I can almost guarantee my first CCW/defensive handgun is going to be a revolver.

Simplicity, reliability and accuracy seem to be the defining traits of the revolver, so I'll take the small hit on concealability that the cylinder brings to the table. As for capacity, aren't most social situations where the handgun would be the primary choice resolved with two or three rounds? If I'm needing to put twenty or thirty rounds on target, there's a good chance I'm already boned, no?

Of course, if money was no object I'd be shopping for an FN FiveseveN the same day, as that thing is just plain neat :)

[jad0110]

NCLivingBrit,

I'll take the small hit on concealability that the cylinder brings to the table.

The concealment advantage that autos are so frequently given is debatable, IMO. It is more of a personal preference/comfort thing. For me, I think revolvers are easier to conceal because of the rounded shape. And other than the cylinder, revolvers are very narrow.

As for capacity, aren't most social situations where the handgun would be the primary choice resolved with two or three rounds? If I'm needing to put twenty or thirty rounds on target, there's a good chance I'm already boned, no?

Actually, in most situations no shots are fired (around 80% I believe). Of the remainging 20%, something like 95% involve less than 4 shots. I could be a tad off on the numbers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the average civilian gunfight lasts only a few seconds, usually.

I agree with you on the round count, except most Americans would use the word "screwed" in place of "boned" :D :p. Or another word that is not speakable on TFL. What many seem to forget is that self defense is not a one-way street, with the good guy doing all the shootin'. If you are defending yourself, naturally you are facing a threat of great bodily harm or death. We as the good guys are already at a disadvantage from the get go, because at first we are on the defensive, so by definition we usually do not have the initiative. Figure in an even worse situation of being outnumbered 3 to 1, or more, and things don't look good. Even if you are able to respond swifty, armed with the hi-cap auto of your choice, and you successfully engage the first threat, his 2+ buddies are engaging you. Not a good place to be.

I pray none of you fine people ever have to be faced with such a situation. Speaking for myself, I am perfectly happy plinking and paper punching.

Back on topic, it's the software, not the hardware.

[Webleymkv]

I'll bet someone reading this thread has some mouth-watering revolver ****.


I'll let you be the judge as to whether or not this is "mouth-watering"

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Webleymkv/BuffaloSabresGame72.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Webleymkv/BuffaloSabresGame69.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Webleymkv/64.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Webleymkv/BuffaloSabresGame052.jpg

Now, where's Playboypenguin when we need him

[ok41]

Don't know much about this forum business...but I 've noticed a trend here to proclaim the advancement of technology. Revolvers have surely replaced muzzel loaders as popular defensive or assault weapons, just as we all know not to bring a sword to a gunfight, blackpowder or otherwise.
However...my wheel guns date back 43 years of popping caps. And sure, the first couple (a model 10 s&w and a single six ruger) are showing their age with a lot of silver showing thru the blue (like my hair) and they are yet to show signs of being obsolete. I also own several bottom feeders and I love my 1911's, but they serve a different purpose entirely and can't compete with my wheelguns on a level field. As for fast loading, high cap mags, slick action, in a real firefight, I learned that maximum effective firepower was critical. And in a future firefight I hope never to see again, perhaps one of them ray guns or light swords would be cool. Hell, for that matter, lets all just drive tanks! Revolvers obsolete? Naw...leastways not this hillbilly's. I still enjoy blackpowder hunting and sharpening my old sword.

[NorfolkSoutherner]

+1 on not feeding the trolls!!!!

[PeteQuad]

My parents are baby boomers, so I'm a long way off from that generation, and guess what my first three handguns are - revolvers. My guess is someone has been drinking the movie maker's kool aid a little too much. I only see revolver sales increasing lately.

[springmom]

Argh. My house is currently full to the brim of teenagers. But when I can get some space to work, I'll post my terrible trio. The ones that my old men sons covet so....:D

Springmom

[NCLivingBrit]

jad 0110 said:

Back on topic, it's the software, not the hardware.

Yep. And my software will be far more confident for knowing that the time proven tech of the revolver is clutched in my sweating paw. I'd rather just pull the trigger again in case of failure than try uncludge an auto.

Simple is good, at least for me.

[Doug.38PR]

Since we are all posting pictures:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/Doug38PR/2007-06-01-07679.jpg

[454 gunner]

I can't understand why the younger generation thinks that way. All of my freinds exept one have nothing but autos. I just smile and tell them that variety is the spice of life.:p

[NCLivingBrit]

Y'all with the picatures..... quit it!

If I buy any more guns this month, my wife is gonna remove parts of my anatomy with 00 buck and you're doing your damndest to get me down to the gun store, cash in hand!

[Webleymkv]

Y'all with the picatures..... quit it!


Nahnahnahnahnahnah:p

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Webleymkv/BuffaloSabresGame67.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Webleymkv/BuffaloSabresGame73.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Webleymkv/BuffaloSabresGame65.jpg

This one's not mine but I reeeaaallly like it
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Webleymkv/SWM27.jpg

[JohnKSa]

As an engineer, I can tell you that in my book function and technology win over aesthetics and nostalgia...

But if you think that means I don't own any revolvers you'd be wrong. ;)

There are some things that revolvers do better than autos just like there are things that autos do better than revolvers. Revolvers will be around for a long time to come and for good reason(s).

[NCLivingBrit]

Dammit, now you got me poking around Charter Arms website....

How's their Off Duty model stack up against other brands? I certainly like the price.....

[PILMAN]

I'm 21 and I like revolvers but I generally like the bigger calibers like the .357 or the .44 magnum. The biggest complaint I hear about revolvers from most people (my generation) is the capacity and from my understanding is that if it breaks that it is very difficult to fix? I can't confirm.

[john55555]

Here in Texas you must qualify with a SA if you want to legally carry a semi or revolver concealed. If you qualify with a revolver, that's all you can carry. I did qualify with a Glock so I'd have the option, even though I only owned a .357 Model 65-3 at the time. My "collection" has grown since to include a KAHR P9 which I enjoy and carry in rotation with a Smith Model 637-2 snubbie.

I don't like the fact that "American Hand Gunner" focuses 95% of it's pages to 1911's. Rerely do you get a cover article (like the new Model 29 last year) that's about a revolver.

I have to laugh at some of the movies that feature people holding a SA at a sideways 90 degree angle. Or Jet Li's 180 degree style! Can there be ANY control in those cases?

At 61, I favor a revolver..not so much because of age but rather experience. I have never had a revolver jam or fail to fire. Plus, growing up watching "Boston Blackie" (an old movie/TV series) at an impressionable age! Seeing him reach in, check his chief's special and replace it every week made me a Wheelman early on!

[Mark Milton]

>>>Weapons systems with revolving cylinders are on the way out. Like black powder and swords and bows and arrows, they will become oddities used in special niches of sports......used for reasons of nostalgia, not efficacy.<<<

Here sonny, let me educate you before you embarrass yourself anymore.
Any weapon capable of killing or stopping the enemy will NEVER be obsolete, as it can still get the job done despite the fact it may not be trendy.

Semi auto pistol guru Jeff Cooper often said he would carry a Colt Dragoon before he would carry a 9mm...
It's the BULLET that stops the fight, not the gun.....

The only "advantages" semi-auto pistols have is that they USED to be flatter than autoloaders (but with fat slided guns like H&Ks and Rugers, that's debatable), reloaded faster in the era BEFORE speedloaders and full moon clips and are lighter to carry.
Uh, that's about it......
Some would argue that a SA pistol like the 1911 is an advantage as it makes hits easier, but in the real world it takes a whopping 29 minutes to learn how to properly control a DA wheelgun trigger provided somebody who knows what they are doing shows you (competitive bullseye shooters called it "indexing" the trigger on S&Ws).
In the world we live in, most popular autoloaders other than the 1911 have mushy crappy triggers. Think Glunk and it's various knockoffs, so there is no advantage there over the wheelgun.
There is no ballistics advantage because wheelguns usually are in more effective calibers too.
Most gunfights end with about 3 rounds fired at 10 feet in about 2 seconds, so "firepower" and magazine capacity are also non issues.
The only reason autoloaders are popular is because in a consumer oriented society todays beligerantly ignorant young shooter is into "Trendy" not "Tried and True."
This means the only advantage say a 1911 has over the 625 is that it's lighter and flatter.
This means that the only advantage a Glunk has over a Ruger is that it's lighter weight.
That's roughly it.
When you weigh in the liklihood of a malfunction with a semi auto which has to fire, unlock, extract, eject, reload and chamber to a wheelgun that rotates, fires and rotates, you can do the math yourself.
When you add in the factor that cleaning an autoloader means taking it apart and cleaning every nook and cranny over the simplicity of the revolver cleaning process, you can see why Old Guys laugh at Tacticool Jack@$$es.

[44 AMP]

About the autoloader, and military and police use.

Since someone noted that while our military went to the auto as the standard back in 1911, it was't until close to 80 years later that autos became the standard for regular police use. Anybody bother to think why that was? One reason is that our police (at all levels) have to endure a large amount of political interference over their choice of weaponry. Not only do their weapons have to perform to minimum standards, but they also have to look proper. A look that inspires confidance, and a look that doesn't upset the public.

Back in the days when the DA revolver was the only gun police used, the majority of uniform officers were denied the use of hollowpoints. Not because of any misplaced compassion for the criminals, but because political leaders (including many police chiefs) felt that hollowpoints were bad for the police image. In those days, also before speedloaders were part of the police equipment, spare ammo was worn in belt loops, where everyone could see it. So, for political reasons, no hollowpoints.

After speedloaders became common (where the public couldn't see the bullets), hollowpoints were more often allowed. And with the switch over to autoloaders, hollowpoints have become the acceptable standard, for two reasons. One of which is the ammo in mags in pouches isn't visible, so the PC image problem goes away. And the other is that after decades of trying, finally there was available reliable and effective hollowpoint ammo for autopistol cartridges.

For nearly 60 years the only ammo commonly available for the standard autopistol cartridges was either FMJ or a soft point or sometimes a hollowpoint that didn't reliably perform significantly better than FMJ. So general opinion was that autopistols (and their ammo) was less than the absolute best choice. Good enough to work certainly, but not worth the change for regular duty use, when revolvers were doing just fine, thank you.

Some states did adopt autos before the crowd, Illinois (I think) adopted the S&W M 39 back in the late 60s or early 70s.

Now add together a few more things which all came together over a few year time, some of them multiplying the effect of the others.

(In no particular order) The developement of the class of auto pistol called "Wondernines", the official adoption of the 9mm as the primary military pistol round, the rise in popularity of combat style pistol shooting, improvements in ammo, and one of particular impact for the police, the "War on Drugs".

One of the things the police got out of the "war" was money. Depts. were allowed to keep some portion of money they siezed. But they could only spend the money on certain things, one of which was guns.

So, with cash to spend, new guns look pretty good, and 9mm looks like the way to go. So, we went. And then later, lots went to .40, or .45, and along the way lots of new pistol designs and variations of designs have buried us in an abundance of choice.

At the same time all this has been going on (over the last few decades) the entertainment industry (movies, TV, and games) has become more visually action oriented. To captivate our attention (and therby make money selling their product) they want action. Shooting is action, and autopistols have way more visual action than revolvers. They shoot more, magazines are taken out and put in, slides move back and forth, brass flies out, yeah, lots more to see than just the hammer falling on a revolver.

So, more and more autos in the movies/tv/games, which teach/train youth, and influence the popular culture.

For those of us who grew up before the current era, the amount of improvement and variety is just staggering, but those whow only know the current era, this is the way it has always been. And they don't understand how it could have ever been any different. The autopistol is just the natural, obvious choice to them, and fewer rounds is a handicap. And any kind of a handicap belongs in the past therefore revolvers must be a thing of the past.

People with a reasonable grip on the past understand that being a thing of the past doesn't automatically mean without untility or effectiveness.

[Manedwolf]

it was't until close to 80 years later that autos became the standard for regular police use. Anybody bother to think why that was?

Because they actually had to aim, unlike the recent "panic spray" shootings like the NY cops firing 50 rounds at unarmed suspects? (and missing the car itself, with 29 going on to hit homes and a train station?)

[kcshooter]

I don't understand why you would feel this way. Muzzle loaders have been improved upon with the invention of the cartridge. Bows and arrows have been improved upon by longer and more powerful ranged weapons. Revolvers haven't been improved upon so they aren't obsolete and never will be. (other than DA over SA)
The only advantage of a semi over a revolver is capacity. Yet 1911's are still one of the most popular designs and carry only 8rds.
A skilled person can reload a revolver in about the same time that it takes to reload a semi.
A good revolver is more reliable than any semi.
I carry a semi on my hip daily but my BUG is a revolver, and I'm 35yo.
Your arguments are unfounded opinions based on nothing.



If Glocks weren't so damned reliable, I might carry a sixgun as a backup.....but the darned Glocks are as reliable as any sixgun, and more reliable than a lot of sixguns. If I want a backup, I'll carry a second Glock.Oh, well this explains a lot! You want a Glock for a backup? I'd rather something that aimed where I point it. More reliable than a six-gun? There are lots of people out there that had reliability issues with Glocks. You have to try really hard to have an unreliable revolver.

[Manedwolf]

Several youngsters in this thread (I'm 60, by the way) have admitted that hardly any of their peers want a revolver.

And I notice that you've ignored the ones who said they DID.

And did you miss my examples of anime series where the main characters have revolvers?

It's mostly teens and twentysomethings who watch Trigun, and Vash the Stampede, with his 45 LC revolver, is a very popular character. People go to anime cons dressed as him in the red coat.

Are they as popular among, perhaps, ghetto youth that grow up wanting a Glock Fo-Tay like their Blood big brother that got offed by the Crips? Probably not.

Are they still an image of power and a "hero" thing among other young people? Damn right.

And I still notice that you're completely ignoring the fact that several companies have come out with BRAND NEW powerful, versatile revolvers for urban defense, and they're selling like crazy.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lt/trigun.jpg

Yeah, this isn't at all youth culture, right? And what's he holding?!

[springmom]

....when you have a troll? :rolleyes:

(Don't feed the troll)

Springmom

[kcshooter]

Revolver Forum: 42 Viewing
Semi-Auto Forum: 106 Viewing

Oh, right, well there's insurmountable proof then, right?:rolleyes:
Maybe that has to do more with posts like "help, my semi isn't feeding/ejecting/extracting/firing/myriad of other failures" posts that you just won't see out of the time-proven more reliable wheelguns.

Yes, for some of us, time has apparently stopped.

And for others, so has the bloodflow to the brain.

[Logos]

Maybe that has to do more with posts like "help, my semi isn't feeding/ejecting/extracting/firing/myriad of other failures" posts that you just won't see out of the time-proven more reliable wheelguns.

I just checked the first page of topics on both forums.

Total topics complaining of problems: 1

Location: Reliable Revolver Forum (Taurus in for repair and taking too long.)

:D

[Plink]

Because they actually had to aim, unlike the recent "panic spray" shootings like the NY cops firing 50 rounds at unarmed suspects?

Spray and pray is nothing new. Ever see those old black and white training films? They showed recruits hunched over with their guns (usually revolvers) at about belly button level, shooting in the "general direction" of their targets, which were a surprising distance away.

[Plink]

Revolver Forum: 42 Viewing


That's the only important statistic.

Doesn't matter if more folks are interested in autos or not. Plenty are still interested in revolvers. Single shot pistols aren't on their way out either, yet they have far less of a following than revolvers.

[Plink]

I can't think of an idea that could be more idiotic than a sixgun for urban use (taking on a gang?).

Taking on a gang with any handgun is pretty idiotic. Use the correct tool for the job. For typical self defense, having a bunch of extra rounds buys us nothing. My carry gun holds a whopping 8 rounds. I wasn't undergunned when I carried a 5 shot revolver. Anyone taking on a gang with a handgun is pretty much dead meat anyway, regardless how uber tacticool his magazine is.

[Logos]

Think market share.

Revolvers market share is on a decline that will never stop unless autoloaders are banned and revolvers are allowed.

That possibility is being discussed in Congress now.

[PeteQuad]

So if we are to take forum viewing as our ultimate statistic, ~30% of forum go-ers prefer revolvers. Doesn't sound like they are going anywhere anytime soon.

The comments in this thread are proof that age do not equal wisdom. Don't feed the troll indeed.

[Logos]

Taking on a gang with any handgun is pretty idiotic.

One does not choose such things, they just happen.

When they happen, you damn well better have a serious weapon and not a dinky 5-shooter.

:D

[springmom]

Taking on a gang with any handgun is pretty idiotic. Use the correct tool for the job.

Right. Like a SWAT team ;)

The red herrings being flung around here are enough to make fish fertilizer. Over and over again, shooters who read this forum for any length of time unlike the troll will read about situational awareness and avoiding trouble. Shooters will also read lots of over-the-top, what-if scenarios (like running into an entire gang that you must battle single handedly) and will realize that this is not what civilians need to be on the lookout for. Heck, even most police officers don't find themselves in that spot. Far better to plan for what you are more likely to encounter: the carjacker, the kidnapper, the home invader, the rapist. All of those are usually singular, but if there's more than one, it's not likely to be a "gang".

RE: the stats off the boards...again, this is a red herring. The presumption is that participation on the boards will mirror actual gun ownership/shooting/interest in the general population. That's a dubious proposition, for several reasons. First, there's no evidence that participation on TFL is even representative of gun ownership, regardless of type of gun owned. Second, the numbers only indicate the number of people (at any given moment) who have questions about, or interested inreading answers to questions about, that forum. Revolvers are likely to have fewer overall problems and may well evoke fewer problems questions. Third, the statement originally posed was not "fewer people read about revolvers" but "revolvers are become obsolete". Nothing in a daily, weekly, or even monthly total of posters viewing even touches on that assertion.

My sons, ages 34, 21, and 18, love shooting my revolvers. My 18 year old wants my SRH for his 21st birthday. (Dream on, buddy....:D) They also enjoy shooting my Kimber Ultra Carry II and my BHP. They just like shooting, but if they're given a choice, they'll pick the revolvers first. Others have said the same here. The bottom line answer to Doug's original question is, "there's no evidence that 'people' do see revolvers as outdated" and there's certainly no evidence that they're going the way of the dodo.

Springmom

[springmom]

You made the assertion; show us the proof. Snapshot stats are not proof.

Springmom

[Slugthrower]

The only reason I can figure is that young men like to have more accessories for their guns than women have for their wardrobes. Revolvers are basic, utilitarian and not as flashy as a semiautomatic pistol. It must be that metro-sexual thing. ;)

I can hear them whining now. "Oh no he didn't !" :eek::D

Don't be so thin skinned. As our good buddy WildAlaska would say. It's only the Internet, it isn't real. ;)

[jad0110]

Revolver Forum: 42 Viewing
Semi-Auto Forum: 106 Viewing.

Wow, I had no idea that obsolescence is determined by popularity!

Wait a minute, that's not good for me ... crap, I guess I have to go buy a new grill. See, I own an antiquated charcoal grill. Gas grills are so much more popular, since they have outsold charcoal examples for years. Man, I'd better go out and buy a gas grill now ... who knows how long I have been serving unhealthy, undercooked food! :eek:

Hmmm, I am lucky with the computer though. Thank goodness. I have a PC ... PCs are FAR more popular (aka, superior) than Macs. Yeah, my PC is under constant attack by viruses, and the operating system is unstable, but I just can't imagine how bad things must be for antiquated Mac users :D.

That reminds me, my dad always wanted a sailboat. I'd better tell him he needs to get a powerboat instead, since they are more common than the old, crummy wind powered clunkers. I wouldn't want him to risk his life with old, useless technology.

Wait a sec...

Uh oh...

Oh, CRAP!!! This is going to be expensive for me to resolve. I own an obsolete item the happens to be the third most expensive item I own.

DANG IT DANG IT DANG IT DANG IT!!! This one is going to drain my bank account BIG TIME, but I had no idea I had such a terribly antiquated, useless item! Are you ready for this, only about 7% of people choose what I own ... just 7%!!! Must be totally useless! Infinitely useless! What is this piece of junk I am referring to that I so stupidly purchased ...










A car with a MANUAL TRANSMISSION! GASP!!!


NUTS!!! I don't know how I've been commuting 50 miles to and from work everyday for that past 4 without any problems, I must be sooooooo lucky! If only 7% of people bought a car with a manual trans last year, they must be terrible! Clunkers! Turdboxes! Worthless! Whew, I'll have to go out tomorrow to buy a car with a vastly superior slush box.

I am distraught however, as my dream car is a Chevrolet Corvette Z06, with it's 505 horsepower LS7 engine. 0 to 60 in under 4 seconds, 22 cubic feet of luggage space, and 25 mpg on the highway. But alas, that engine is only bolted to an unpopular, obsolete manual transmission. Bummer. Must be a totally useless piece of crap that would get it's butt handed to it in a stoplight war by a Geo Metro with an far more advanced, technologically superior automatic transmission.

;)

[Webleymkv]

Calling people trolls is the last refuge of folks without an authentic argument.


Revolvers market share is on a decline that will never stop unless autoloaders are banned and revolvers are allowed.

OK, I won't call you a troll. However, I will ask that you show some documented proof of your second statement. Also, I ask that you show recent figures as I think you'll find that revolver sales have taken a bit of an upswing lately. I think that maybe you've been labeled as a troll because you've made a lot of repeated, unsupported, and frankly quite bold claims and done so in an area where it is obvious that they won't be well recieved. This sounds sucspiciously like "stirring the pot."

I can't think of an idea that could be more idiotic than a sixgun for urban use (taking on a gang?).


The point of a CCW is not to "take on a gang" but to buy enough time to get away from it. I'll also ask that you show us five well documented cases of a CCW holder (or any armed citizen) with a revolver being killed or severely injured because they ran out of ammunition before they could engage all of their opponenets. Also, try this little experiment: take your Glock and push it up into an old pillow and fire it (I'd suggest using a light practice load and a longer barreled gun so you don't set anything on fire. It will most likely jam on the first shot or not fire at all from being pushed out of battery. Is it not a possibility that you may have to fire your handgun at point blank range at an assailant on top of you? It'd be nice to not jam your gun wouldn't it.

But do tell me about these new revolvers......like what's NEW about them?


How about this

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14810&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

An eight-shot .357 Magnum revolver with a scandium frame that weighs only 21 oz. and can be reloaded with moon clips.

Revolver Forum: 42 Viewing
Semi-Auto Forum: 106 Viewing.


Congratulations, you've just proved that at that particular time on this particular forum there were more people looking at the Semi-Auto Forum than the Revolver Forum; that's about it.

[Justme]

Well my Ruger sp101 is new to me, within the last two weeks actually.

Lots of new revolvers with lots of exotic metals being made in the last 5 yrs or so. These new lightweight high power weapons are responsible for a resurgence in revolver popularity. Or maybe the passing of decent concealed carry laws in a lot of states and the realization that good small revolvers are pretty low maintenance and high potence.

[Cyrgelman]

If it quacks like a duck...

It's a duck.

Yes, as a lurker I've already taken note of his Modus Operandi/attitude and consequently have him on ignore.

"Why do people today see revolvers as 'outdated' or 'old men guns'?"

People think what they want to think. What's it to me? Besides, revolvers are still manufactured, aren't they? There's still demand for them, correct?

[christcorp]

You are correct that the military and police consider a semi-auto to be more practical than a revolver. That doesn't however make a semi-auto a better gun. It just means that it's a more convenient gun. Besides every machine gun I could imagine toting around, I carried a 1911 45acp. It is much easier to have multiple clips loaded and in my pockets than it is to have speed loaders or loose ammo. Speed loaders may seem cool, but they aren't as quick as a clip and they are much more bulky.

None of this however has anything to do with whether a revolver is outdated or an old man's gun. They aren't. That is just a perception. That however is the question. Why do people see revolvers this way. They see them this way simply because hollywood has made them out to be that way. Through the 80's, 90's, and now this century, there are more and more fast action hollywood type movies where people shoot a million rounds, drop empty clips onto the ground and slam another clip in. It's hollywood.

It is a shame however. In real like, most people, especially those not doing the "CCW" route, would be better off with a revolver. Revolver have less chance of a fubar because of less moving parts. They can generally be more accurate. They can be easier to clean and maintain and repair. They are usually a lot less expensive. They can shoot any round you feed it. You can usually put more powerful rounds in them. And if you really need to use it in self defense, you are much more likely to be affective with it. You won't accidentally forget to "Jack" a round into the chamber, Or forget about the safety. etc...

That's the biggest part of most people's problems when it comes to guns. They let their ego's get in the way and believe that they are in total control and can handle an intruder or a self defense scenario. The truth is, most people have no idea the adrenaline that pumps through you when you can't see someone and you know that they are trying to kill you. Most people don't know how scared you get when you know someone is trying to find you before you find them, This isn't a paintball game. Then, when you do come face to face, and a part of you doesn't want to "Kill" this person but you know that if you don't pull the trigger that they will. And all this is happening in your mind, with your heart pounding, and you can't breath, and it's only the hours, months, and years of training that you've had, (Which the general public doesn't come near), that is holding you together. When you finally have to pull the trigger. And ALL OF THIS happened in less than a couple of seconds, yet it seemed like forever.

Anyone who says that they have no problem in these scenarios and doesn't go through this in a life and death situation is full of $h*t. Or a sadist. Even police officers and military personnel in close arm combat with pistols, feel this way. It's different shooting a rifle hundreds of feet away from someone. It's not quite as personal.

There is no doubt that for a person that doesn't carry a weapon for a living as part of their job, where 6-7 rounds is definitely going to be MORE than enough, who doesn't need to be worrying about jacking, stovepipes, safety's, etc... when their mind is too involved with the situation in front of them, the revolver is the ONLY reasonable choice. But hey, what the hell. We all love Bruce Willis, Steven Segal, and the rest of hollywood. Don't get me wrong, I carry a Sig P220 45acp. I love the gun and think it's probably one of the best handguns in the entire world. But, for the rest of my family who doesn't have the background, training, and first hand experience, that's what revolvers are for. Hopefully the general public will come to know the truth. At least we are still in a country where we can have this debate and the hardest choice is deciding if you want a revolver or semi-auto. There's way too many places where the right to have a gun is not even an option. Later... Mike.....

[Candiru]

This is an essay I typed up for another forum a while back. It seems appropriate here.

--------------------------------------

While I have no quarrel with people who think semi-autos are the bee's knees, the near-universal prevalence of this attitude lends a monotonic tone to all discussion of gun choices. When I spot a thread asking advice for a concealed-carry handgun I just skim it, secure in the knowledge that I'll see a stream of advocacy for XDs and CZs, with perhaps a Sig or HK thrown in for flavor. I'm exaggerating to some degree, but it's no hyperbole to say one almost never sees revolvers getting the credit they deserve, and can often note a distinctly dismissive attitude toward these classic firearms.

Rather than attempting to examine why people dismiss revolvers offhand (because there's no good reason to do so), let's look at a few of their pros and cons.


Reliability

The phrase, "six for sure" is almost as irritating as "they all fall to hardball," but it's true. The highest praise that can be brought to bear on a semi-auto is that it has revolver-like reliability. Revolvers don't suffer feed jams or extraction issues and they don't need to balance spring weights to ensure consistent cycling dynamics. If a round fails to fire, retrying with a fresh round is the work of a single trigger pull.

I'm well aware of the fact that revolvers have their own failure cases: bullets backing out of the crimp can lock up the cylinder, as can carbon buildup on the cylinder face if there's insufficient forcing cone clearance. The ejection rod can unscrew under recoil and lock up the cylinder. Dirty chambers can make ejecting cases difficult. It's safe to say that a failure in a semi-auto can be quickly cleared, but a failure in a revolver takes it out of action until you can get to a workbench. That being said, these types of errors are entirely preventable given proper maintenance and testing, and about as likely as a semi-auto breaking one of its major components. For the majority of use cases, revolvers will always beat semi-autos when it comes to reliability. When you get down into the size range of guns that can fit in one's pocket, snub-nosed revolvers kick the pants clean off tiny semi-autos as far as reliability is concerned.


Simplicity of Use

It doesn't get much simpler than a revolver. A single-action is conceptually easy: cock hammer, pull trigger; if the hammer's not cocked, the gun won't fire. It's about as manual a process as you can get without stuffing gunpowder and a patch down the bore. Double-action revolvers are even simpler: Pull trigger to fire. No safeties, no magazines, no slide releases, no decockers, no question about whether there's a round chambered. The reliability mentioned above comes into play here, as well, for there's no need to learn how to clear a jam.

Add to that a fairly heavy double-action trigger, and you have an almost idiot-proof handgun. Every argument in favor of Glocks, XDs, or Sigs due to their simplicity of use applies doubly well to revolvers. As a handgun for someone who has little interest or preference in guns, a DAO revolver is the only intelligent choice.


Ammo Flexibility

Because revolvers don't use the inertia of a firing round to reset their firing mechanism, they can shoot anything that fits in the chamber. The apex of this property is reached in .357 Magnum revolvers, the most versatile handguns ever created. A .357 Mag revolver can shoot anything from target .38 Special wadcutter rounds at 600 FPS to bear-busting 180-grain harcast magnums. As long as the bullet clears the barrel and the round doesn't blow up the gun, it's good to go.

Additionally, there's no need to feed ammo, so the bullet shape is irrelevant. The compromises seen in semi-auto hollowpoints simply don't apply, so optimum terminal performance can be pursued without worrying whether or not said terminal performance will be impeded by the bullet failing to chamber. You could get drunk taking shots out of Speer's .45 Colt Gold Dots' hollowpoint. (You'd also get lead poisoning, but you wouldn't care because you'd be drunk.)

Finally, there's power. Revolvers don't need to unlock the barrel after pressure has dropped, so instead of using a tiny sliver of metal to hold thousands of pounds of pressure, they use the entire topstrap of the gun. This permits extensive use of rounds that would shoot a semi-auto to pieces in short order, as well as the ability to use cartridges clearly designed as a drunken prank, such as .454 Casull and the S&W supermagnums. You can even get revolvers chambered in rifle rounds. (I say "you" because there's no way in hell I'm touching one of those off.)

Oh yeah, I almost forgot: If you reload, it's a Godsend to be able to drop all your spent casings in a box instead of grovelling about on the shooting range floor.


Revolvers have disadvantages, of course; there's no such thing as a free lunch.


"Firepower"

For the elite tactical operators living high-speed low-drag lives, who start hyperventilating and tearing up at the thought of not being able to top off their 15-round 10mm magazines, the prospect of being "limited" to six rounds is apt to make them thrash around on the ground, wrinkling their carefully-pressed multicam as they kick and scream, tears running down their flushed, chubby cheeks. To make things worse, reloading a revolver can take up to 0.75 seconds longer than reloading a semi-auto, which gives them a -3 to Initiative for the next round. (This could be offset to a -2 if someone made a tactical speed-loader pouch, but nobody makes one that's sufficiently tactical.) I bow to these people's highly-trained and lethal skillset, and would not wish to saddle them with equipment that would compromise their ability to Get The Job Done. Because, as we all know, the type of gun you use and amount of ammo you have on hand are the sole predictors of your survival in a dangerous situation.


Trigger Pull

While revolvers' single-action pulls are for the most part sweet enough to bring tears to a connoisseur's eyes, the double-action trigger takes work to perfect. More accurately, a double-action revolver trigger unflinchingly reveals every single flaw in one's trigger technique. This is exacerbated in snubbies, where the short sight radius, small sights, small grips, and the use of a coil mainspring has garnered snub-nosed revolvers a reputation as "belly guns." (This isn't really the case; the mechanical accuracy of snubbies is almost identical to their larger brethren, but they're just harder to shoot well.) My experience has shown that unpracticed shooters do about as well with a DA revolver as a single-action semi-auto, but once the initial learning curve has passed most people tend to do better on single-action handguns. The trigger pull on a revolver will always be its primary drawback.


Having got all that off my chest, it's my sincere hope that more people will learn to recognize the continued relevance of revolvers, even if it does mean fewer for me.

[neight]

"Oh yeah, I almost forgot: If you reload, it's a Godsend to be able to drop all your spent casings in a box instead of grovelling about on the shooting range floor."

that's absolutely the truth ;)

[Justme]

I wonder if the premise of the thread is even valid. Do people see revolvers as outdated or for old men?

I fix antique furniture and use some pretty amazing high tech chisels and carving gouges. Obviously a chisel is much more old fashioned and low tech than a router, but I have some that cost more than a typical craftsman router.

I think it is possible that people see revolvers as a specialised weapon for serious and experienced shooters; much like expensive japanese chisels are used only by very serious woodworkers.

In my experience I seldom see guys at a range mishandling revolvers, the same can not be said for the semiautos.

Maybe that should be the title of the thread, why do so many people treat semi-automatic pistols as toys and not use proper safety procedures?

[Black Adder LXX]

Why do people today see revolvers as "outdated" or "old men guns"?

I think it's a cultural thing. Society (MEDIA) says, new is better. New and improved, latest technology, etc. Always embracing the new because old just isn't cool anymore is what keeps the Dow Jones closing 'up'. Bottom line: don't think, buy the new thing... on your credit card...

I take a lot of younger folks out to the range for the first time and they ARE usually attracted to the semis. Glocks, Smiths, etc. I love semis. My Beretta is one of the coolest guns I've ever seen or shot. All I know is when I introduce them and their preconceptions to my Big Shiny Stainless Steel Ruger 357 and they shoot the first round off... Well, I've never failed to hear somebody yell 'whoa' or at least crack a BIG smile.

I don't ever go hang out where there are large gangs of thugs roaming the street, so I can't speak to that, but the folks that I introduce to this wonderful sport/obsession don't think about revolvers that way. I think the wise person learns to judge each individual thing by its' own merits.

[RJM]

Whats good for the police and military probably isn't good for the populace when carrying a weapon. The fact is the revolver is a very competent carry piece for the average joe on the street. It is simple to use and easy to get the first shot to fire where you want it. I can't think of a time where my Smith and Wesson revolvers (I have 4) have ever not gone bang. I did have to sit around at my concealed carry course where some of the people who are going to carry a small automatic could not figure out how to get the jams cleared. It happened to a lady who was shooting a Keltec .380 and my friend who was shooting a glock, it would fail to fire and they would basically stop their shooting and try to figure the problem, if it was a stressful, real situation where they were depending on the weapon they would have lost the fight.

For concealed carry the revolver kicks the pants off the automatic for the general public. Simplicity wins.

[Logos]

Simplicity only wins if you don't have to reload.

If you have 15 to 19 rounds already in the gun......it's almost dead certain you will not have to reload--and during reloading is when people get killed.

But, I'm not going to continue contributing to a rancorous thread (I guess the title ensured that) where people are just repeating the same arguments over and over again.

More heat is being generated than light. I suggest in the future that it would be a good idea not to call people "trolls" or "sonny."

Namecalling never leads to good discussion.

Thanks to those who made good contributions.

[2rugers]

Revolvers are far superior to semi's in every way except capacity.

[2rugers]

Also, you may not have to reload as often , but you will very likely have to clear a jam.

[2rugers]

Sonny.:p

[armoredman]

Anyone who knows weapons would choose a Glock and a bunch of 33 round 9mm mags over a six shooter for urban problems.

I have personally witnessed more Glocks failing than any revolvers. I carry an auto for CCW, a CZ PO1, but the Smith 10-8 38 I posted much earlieris getting it's own CCW setup, too. Why? Because I hit anything I aim at with it. Capacity and rapid reload are secondary to one very important thing.







http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/PICT0060.jpg

[Mark Milton]

Anybody who honestly believes the Glunk is as reliable as a run of the mill wheelgun is living in FANTASY LAND and has never been to the range when police officers qualify and the old guys have their model 10s and 66s out and running.
been there. Done that. Tellin' you the FACTUAL tale, not the Austrian fantasy.

Another fantasy is "firepower". Bruce Nelson used to point out that you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight....Which is what happens when you spray and pray....You miss....

The late Dave Arnold was a cop in Africa at one point during his career....he was also a wheelgunner. When asked once what gun he would use for a riot, he said a .357 magnum. You shoot the first two or three people and the rest loose interest fast....
Gangbangers are not known for standing their ground and fighting. Usually the mere sight of a gun sends them fleeing. Like most criminals they prefer an unarmed victim....


How many people view an online forum on the internet doesn't prove anything except how wet some people are behind the ears and how some folks have way too much green goo up their noses.
Newsflash, SONNY. There are dozens of LEOs in my county and not ONE of them is on this or any other gun forum. Also, several of them carry .357s even though they have .40 glunks they can carry if they so choose.

The reason?
In the real world, some serious people (including professionals) who carry a gun know that the reason you carry a gun is to STOP people and that nothing smaller than a Desert Eagle rivals a service revolver in a serious caliber for putting the kibosh on a bad dude....

Oh yeah, and day before yesterday we had some guy shoot himself in the leg with that Holy Grail of the Tacticool Fools, the Tactical Tupperware .40 cal.
He bought a box of shells at Wall Mart, tried to load his gun and drive, and shot himself in the leg at the stop light....
He DROVE HIMSELF to the hospital for treatment....
Not exactly a sterling endorsement of stopping power for the old .40 Short and Wimpy round....
Or the polymer popguns that chamber it, in my opinion.
Kinda hard to shoot yourself accidentally with a wheelgun.....

Kinda hard to have an AD in a classroom full of school children too, to refer to another GLUNK escapade....
The revolver is faster to draw, more accurate due to it's fixed barrel, more reliable and has greater stopping power in service format compared to service pistols.....
Service pistols hold more rounds....Wow.
Now you see why the wheelgun is the real gun and the bottom feeder will never equal it.

[springmom]

Oh yeah, and day before yesterday we had some guy shoot himself in the leg with that Holy Grail of the Tacticool Fools, the Tactical Tupperware .40 cal.
He bought a box of shells at Wall Mart, tried to load his gun and drive, and shot himself in the leg at the stop light....
He DROVE HIMSELF to the hospital for treatment....
Not exactly a sterling endorsement of stopping power for the old .40 Short and Wimpy round....
Or the polymer popguns that chamber it, in my opinion.
Kinda hard to shoot yourself accidentally with a wheelgun.....


You know, you can't fix stupid :p This guy sounds like he could have shot himself with a water gun :rolleyes:

Lots of folks get good service from their Glocks, XD's (my favorite of the black pistols) and such. They are fine guns, they're just not the uber-answer that some people *cough, cough* make them out to be, is all.

I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II when I'm not carrying the m37. Depends more on what I'm wearing and how much energy I have to cart around the extra weight of the Kimber, than whether one is "better" than the other. I'm not undergunned either way.

Springmom

[re_kenney]

I'm a bit of a schizoid on this.
I carry either a Glock-36 or an SW 340PD depending on what I wear.
I have more faith in the lethality of the 230gr FMJ +P round in my Glock than the tricekd out GDHP short barrel holow points in the 340. And, although the Glock has yet to jam, stove-pipe, or otherwise screw up, I suspect someday it will. Murphy says that day will be the one time I need it most not to. So the 340 gets lots of carry time.

[Justme]

My cousin shot himself with a .38 special once back in the mid seventies. Something caught something while he was climbing over the fence to go check on some cows. Luckily he was less than 100 yards from home because even with cheap non expanding ammo he damn near bleed to death by the time he used his belt for a tourniquet. He did not drive himself anywhere.

The point is, you can shoot yourself with a wheelgun.

Oh, and the most famous revolver accident of my childhood was when the local deputy(off duty) was demonstrating his quickdraw in bar one night. Shot himself in the foot and killed the refrigerator, don't know why he didn't stop at one shot but there you have it sometimes excitement overwhelms.

[armoredman]

... local deputy(off duty) was demonstrating his quickdraw in bar one night.

Gah. And the LIEberals tell you only LE should have sidearms.

[Slugthrower]

"Not exactly a sterling endorsement of stopping power for the old .40 Short and Wimpy round....
Or the polymer popguns that chamber it, in my opinion." Mark Milton.

Hey! I like my plastic .40 S&W FN, even if I prefer my .357 Mag. revolver.:p;)

[HammerBite]

Someday you will be an old man and will have gained the wisdom that comes with age and you will shoot revolvers.

[armoredman]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/timeless.jpg

[Indeterminacy]

After reading through this entire thread, I felt utterly compelled to join this forum just to add my $0.02 to all this.

Just a brief background - I'm 33, and a complete newbie to guns. When I say newbie, I mean I JUST started to become interested in buying a handgun in the past month. So, I've been doing my homework - talking to people, reading forums and websites, going to gun shops and putting my hands around any gun that I'd be remotely interested in. My wife knows a heck of a lot more about guns than I do. Her father was a gun dealer and collector, she used to hunt when she was a kid, and has owned several guns in her lifetime. (Right now she's lusting over a brand new Browning High Power 9mm)

That being said, I've given a lot of thought about the whole revolver vs. semi-auto thing, and I decided that a revolver, especially for a beginner, is a much better choice. I can cite the reasons that everyone else have already given (simpler mechanics, easier to maintain, etc.), but what it really comes down to, at least for me, is reliability. The LAST thing I want to have to deal with while at a range learning how to shoot is taking apart a pistol and clearing a jam - that would be a major frustration and probably even more discouraging.

I have to agree with others about the Hollywood image of semi-automatics. Glocks and Berettas seem to be more about eye-candy than practical functionality. When I held one of those, I felt like I was holding a machine - it was cold and detached. I'll never forget the first time I held a S&W .38 Special - It felt like an extension of my arm, and when I cocked the hammer, I felt the entire gun move with my hand. If I ever get into a life-threatening situation and I have a gun to use, I'd rather have something I feel that comfortable with than have a weapon with higher capacity, a boatload of features, etc. Also, if (God forbid) I ended up confronted with a gang, prayer would probably be a stronger defense than a handgun.

As a side note - the testosterone level of gun debates is so high that it's almost humorous. To all those who get caught up in their big bad .45's - get over it. Are you looking to protect yourself or get a rush from blowing someone to pieces? A .22 hollow-point shot at 10 feet will do just fine to stop a perpetrator, and that's coming from a former detective turned LE weapons instructor, not me.

I'm a professional guitarist. One thing I can relate to gun enthusiasts with is the passion they have for what they own. But, from reading this and other gun forums, the level of arrogance/ignorance is on par with the music equipment industry.

I'm excited about my first gun purchase. I've decided to go with a .22 revolver. I chose the .22 because they seem to be the easiest to learn on (low recoil, etc.), and ammunition is dirt cheap, which will let me spend a day at the range without breaking the bank. If I can afford it, I'm looking at a S&W 617 with a 4" barrel, which will serve two purposes - a good target gun at a size easy enough to carry if I choose to do so. And for all you high capacity freaks - the 617 also comes with a 10-round magazine.

[christcorp]

It seems that most people who claim semi-auto to be better than a revolver like to harp on quantity of rounds compared to the revolver. Sorry, but this isn't Hollywood or the OK Coral. If you get into a position where you need your sidearm for self defense, it isn't going to be a shootout where you're going to go through clip after clip of ammo. It's probably not going to last even more than a few seconds. When you are talking about having 15-19 rounds in a gun, you are surely not talking about a 45acp. That's for sure. You're probably talking more like a 9mm or similar.

Again, reality isn't going to have you shooting multiple clips or even a high number of rounds. Personally, if you can't hit the bad guy with the 6 or 7 rounds that are in your gun, (Revolver or semi-auto), then you have absolutely no business having a gun for defense. You are probably more of a danger to yourself and others than if you just didn't confront the problem.

The best home defense gun is a 12 gauge shotgun with the right buck shot or bird shot depending on distance, walls, room size, etc... For carrying purposed, the best gun is the one that you can hit your target with. 95% of that success has nothing to do with the gun, and everything with your ability to stay calm; Stay focused; Know what you're aiming at; And following through with it. People need to get off the "Die Hard" Hollywood mentality. Whether it's a 380, 9mm, 45acp all in Semi-Auto form; or it's a 38special, 357 mag, 44 mag, or 45 colt all in revolver; if you know how to stay calm and hit what you are aiming at, then that is what is the best. This "Spray and Pray" attitude of popping off a clip of 15 rounds is pure stupidity. Later... Mike...

[JohnKSa]

If you get into a position where you need your sidearm for self defense, it isn't going to be a shootout where you're going to go through clip after clip of ammo.Almost correct. If you get into a position where you need your sidearm for self defense, it probably isn't going to be a shootout where you're going to go through clip after clip of ammo.

I'm not arguing that they're a bad choice, just pointing out that it is possible that one may need to run a gun empty in a gunfight and need to reload (or find another gun) to finish things. One thing that a lot of people don't like to think about is that it's reasonably likely that you'll be faced with multiple attackers.

Again, not saying that one shouldn't pick a revolver for self-defense--in fact I have a revolver doing home defense duty as we speak.

[Feanaro]

If you get into a position where you need your sidearm for self defense, it isn't going to be a shootout where you're going to go through clip after clip of ammo.

You might have a really good crystal ball but mine is broken. Six shots will probably resolve the problem. But according to statistics bandied on the internet, you most likely won't have to shoot at all.

I am not a statistic and I am not infallible. I might miss. I might face multiple opponents. I don't want "well, everyone on the internet can solve their gunfights exactly as they plan" to be my final consolation. Revolvers have a disadvantage compared to autos in capacity and reload speed. That doesn't mean revolvers are inferior. I open carry a Smith 28-2. But I am aware of this weakness and train around it.

A .22 hollow-point shot at 10 feet will do just fine to stop a perpetrator, and that's coming from a former detective turned LE weapons instructor

That don't make it so. If you put a round, any round, through someone's heart or brainpan, it will probably* force them to stop fighting. But pistols are bad stoppers.

Look up the FBI Miami Shootout of 1986 (http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm) for a real world example.

*The May 2006 issue of Combat Handguns featured a story by Massad Ayoob about a female police officer who was hit in the heart with a .357 round. She is still, as far as I know, alive. The person who shot her isn't. She managed to return fire before collapsing.

[Stainz]

I am chronologically, volumetrically, and gravitationally challenged. I like revolvers simply because they don't rudely cast their empties asunder. As an avid, or, perhaps 'rabid' would be more appropriate, reloader, I really appreciate the more proper revolvers' method of caring for empties. Besides, a plastic holstered Glock just wouldn't look right hanging from my walker... a proper hogleg in leather just looks more appropriate hanging there.

About capacity... for years, the average encounter has needed 2.4 rounds. If you seriously need more than 5, 6, 7, or 8 rounds from a revolver, you probably either need something crew served, should adopt better social graces, or to move to a safer side of town.

Stainz (TIC)

[RangerHAAF]

It's like music; I'm stuck in the 1980's with my preferences and I was in the army just when the 9mm Beretta was becoming the standard issue sidearm. I must say that I preferred the accuracy and shot quantity over the 45 ACP. The Beretta is easier to take apart and put back together. My generation(X) was taught to shoot the Beretta. Generations Y and Z will have newer options to choose from.

[Indeterminacy]

If you put a round, any round, through someone's heart or brainpan, it will probably* force them to stop fighting. But pistols are bad stoppers.


Point taken. All the same, if I throw a dagger at someone, the same effect *may* happen. Nothing's foolproof. I would imagine the "pray" part of "spray and pray" refers to hoping at least one of the multitude of shots fired actually does a significant amount of damage to stop the bad guy(s). One thing I learned from that weapons trainer is that it's all about shot placement, and if you take the time to hone your shooting skills, and know a decent amount of defensive combat using a handgun, you have a much better chance of firing the right shot, in the right place, to severely hurt someone, if not kill them. I'm far from an expert, but logic tells me that if the average .22 cartridge travels at 1,200 feet/second, and you're shooting at a distance of 10 feet, it's gonna do something bad if it's aimed at the right place.

[Indeterminacy]

It's like music; I'm stuck in the 1980's with my preferences and I was in the army just when the 9mm Beretta was becoming the standard issue sidearm.

I'm part of generation X too, but I'm stuck in the 40's musically :D

[christcorp]

Yes, some will argue that it's possible to have multiple assailants coming after you at the same time, and therefore, max capacity is a definite advantage. Well, to get that capacity, you probably have a 9mm. I personally do not want that for a self defense round, so for many people that argument is moot. You could possibly have S&W 40 cal. Totally acceptable, but that's about all for a capacity of more than 8. (7+1).

Of course, some could argue that a 9mm is a fine caliber because if you practice well, you can place the shot and be more effective. That is true, but if you are that good of a shot, which you should be, then you probably don't need the extra rounds.

I will concede that for the average person who doesn't shoot often, isn't proficient in their accuracy; probably will be in panic mode which is normal for most people in the described situation, etc... Then max capacity has an advantage. If not max capacity, the at least a clip for faster reload. I.e. a 45acp with 7+1 with clips that can be swapped faster. No doubt that a clip is faster and more convenient than a revolver. Even with speed loaders. Of course, with this capability of swapping out clips faster so you can shoot these 5 people trying to kill you, you hopefully won't have any stovepipes, jams, misfeeds, safety issues, etc...

For the experienced shooter, or at least the ones who think they are experienced, a semi-auto is fine. I personally carry my Sig P220 45acp. Mainly because of it's size, accuracy, dependability, etc... There's a difference between a $1000 sig and a $150 Jennings. Then again, these "experienced" carriers probably feel they also need a backup around their ankle, an extra gun in the glovebox, etc.... I grew up in the New York city/New Jersey inner city areas. I understand what crime is. It's a shame that people today feel that their life is truly at risk. It probably isn't, but if people perceive that it is, then it has the same results.

Anyway, for the inexperience, average person who isn't going to be in another L.A. Riot environment, or living on the streets of Beruit, a revolver is a much more practical weapon. Point and click. Don't think or worry about the gun. Just worry about the person you are aiming at. You can do so much more damage to the bad guys with a 357 or 44 than you can with a 9mm or 40. You reduce the chances of a failure down significantly. You will be more accurate because your mind is fixated on the target instead of safety's, slides, ejecting, clips, etc... No one has to be a Rambo here. If you are called upon to actually need to use a pistol for defense, forget all the hollywood hype. If you've made up your mind to pull that trigger, then aim that sucker at their chest or largest area mass and pull that trigger. Curse that SOB out loud and keep planting bullets in them. Never, ever, allow a person to be still breathing if you decide to pull the trigger. In the military, the goal is to wound. It requires 2 other people to be removed from shooting back to assist their buddy. In self defense, the goal is death. A dead person can not testify against you in court and can not seek revenge later. Later... Mike....

[Diggers]

Just watched wild west tech. One lawman shot dead 4 men with a single action revolver in a gunfight that lasted 5 seconds. Thats shootin.

[Justme]

When I taught women's self defense classes I always empasised that they couldn't overpower most assailants. The best move was to kick them in the knee or stomp on their foot arch and then run.

When in an armed conflict one against many reloading can't be a good idea. A couple of well aimed shots to slow everyone down and then run and hide. Something like a .357 out of a snubby produces lots of noise and smoke and flames to contribute to the shock and awe that will enable a strategic retreat.

For home defense if you need more than the 5 shots in a snubby that means your home is being invaided by some sort of paramilitary gang and you are screwed unless you have an uzi or something anyway.

It's not about having the most firepower, it's about having enough. If, as an individual, you are confronted with an organized armed group, you are outgunned no matter what and better hope your negotiating skills are up to speed.

One on one I have seen well aimed headbutts effect resolution faster than anyone could ever access a weapon.

Maybe that's the point. Old guys actually have a feel for likely real world scenarios, most young guys(certainly not all) imagine their scenarios based on videogames movies and MTV videos.

As for firepower, growing up on a farm we used a .22lr to execute large steers, worked every time. I also killed my first deer using a rock, had only 5 28guage slugs and ran out while tracking the thing down, when loss of blood caused it to fall down I smashed its head with a rock. Most 13 year olds today, having watched too much TV, would have probably bashed it in the head with the butt. I just had visions of how much damage that might do to my shotgun and found a rock.

At the end of the day a .357 ruger would make a better club than a plastic semi auto would, assuming an absence of rocks in a concrete urban setting.

[JohnKSa]

Well, to get that capacity, you probably have a 9mm. I personally do not want that for a self defense round, so for many people that argument is moot. You could possibly have S&W 40 cal. Totally acceptable, but that's about all for a capacity of more than 8. (7+1).Not to pick on you, but the choices out there are a bit more widely varied than you suggest. There are a couple of 9mm sized pistols in .45GAP that offer .45ACP ballistics in 10+1 capacity, and, of course, if having more ammunition at your rapid disposal is an issue, virtually any caliber autopistol that's not ultra-compact will offer you at least 13 rounds with a single reload. Still in a package that's much smaller than the smallest 8 shot centerfire revolver I'm aware of.

Besides, acknowledging the fact that multiple attackers are a possibility (if not a probability) doesn't force you to high-capacity. It's just another factor that needs to be considered when making a self-defense weapon choice and integrating it into defensive strategies.

[Webleymkv]

While the multiple attacker issue is one to be considered, it is not the only factor in the choice between an auto or revolver. It is also a possibility that the gun may need to be fired at point-blank-range, from under a garment, or with a less than ideal grip. A revolver is much less likely to jam due to such situations. Personally, I'd be more likely to be in a situation like those I describe than a multiple attacker scenario. Should my life ever come to the point that I may be likely to be in a multiple attacker scenario, I'll carry more than one revolver and consider some lifestyle changes. Besides, my goal is to get out of the situation not to "take on multiple attackers" and six shots will likley be enough for that course of action.

Simplicity only wins if you don't have to reload.

If you have 15 to 19 rounds already in the gun......it's almost dead certain you will not have to reload--and during reloading is when people get killed.


It is in no way certain that you won't have to reload your auto or that you will have to reload your revolver. The only thing that is certain is that you should be proficient at reloading whatever type of weapon you choose.

[Doug.38PR]

also if you are in a situation where you REALLY do need 15-20 rounds and a reload or two then you don't need to be carrying a handgun, you need to be carrying rifle. Because that's going to be the Red Chinese army charging up the hill at you.

[Mantua]

If you're attacked by multiple people, and mortally wound one, what are the odds the others will stick around and try their luck?

[Archie]

I carry a revolver.

Arguably, I'm an old man because I carry a revolver.

You do what you want sonny. Whatever you carry, make the shots count. I've been to too many young men's funerals.

[William Jesse Magnum]

Hmmmm I dont think so.

Im 33 and since i was in my mid 20's i was already in love with revolvers and now i have 3.....and counting. I happen to ask the same question before I started out with wheelguns with some of the folks at the range and at the gun stores because I told them that I planned on joining IDPA using my S&W627-5 and they told me that however autopistols generally outnumber sixguns but as long as top revolver manufacturers (S&W/Ruger/Taurus/Etc) keep coming up with new additions and variations, revolvers will always have a piece of the market.

Sorry folks but I really dont dig the Matrix vid clip although i agree it is a classic but with advanced autopistol style shooting, id prefer this one from the rest. (Though I'm a huge fan with the Eastwood westerns)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpVaQsOhunE&mode=related&search=

[Doug.38PR]

^ Bruce Lee with 1911s instead of nunchucks or katanna swords. They even sound like swords or nunchucks as they are fliped and slung around.

[Mark Milton]

I know of one instance from another state, where thug tried to rob a convenience store on third shift.
The clerk pulled out a snub nosed Colt Lawman in .357 and fired one round....The suspect FAINTED, and the clerk thought he had killed the man.
He called the police and the suspect woke up and ran away....
The police in that district were able to find the guy because in addition to the description, it seems that he CRAPPED HIS PANTS when that short barrelled cannon went off in that enclosed space..He also had a pretty bad powder burn.......

LOL....
The other day, somebody I have been teaching firearms instruction to said to me "boy, you sure seem to prefer revolvers."
To which I told her, "yeah, and when you take apart those automatic pistols to clean them after we shoot them, you will prefer revolvers too."
LOL...

That's a double edge sword that often catches the "nothing but new" crowd of wet behind the ears whippersnappers.
They like the lightwight polymer popguns that dont rust...and they don't take them apart regularly to clean them....and they get stoppages and malfs due to the fact that autoloaders need to be kept clean for reliable functioning...
A good buddy of mine had a problem with his 1911...Turns out he had never cleaned it, as somebody told him his Glock never needed to be cleaned and he thought it was true and true of all autoloaders.
The firing pin channel of the 1911 was FILLED with gunk, and it caused the firing pin to get stuck in the forward position, slam firing the gun....
He thought the gun was defective...It just needed cleaning...

[applesanity]

I don't know what pop culture you guys soak yourselves in, but officer Deckard carries a revolver in one of the best movies of all time, Blade Runner, which is set in 2019. As in: the future.

http://www.brmovie.com/Images/Things/blaster_02.jpg

Funny that this thread starts out with a reference to The Matrix, which incidentally, owes at least half its looks, themes, and genre to Blade Runner.

Also, the rappers in my music collection prefer the revolvers. When "Method Man" goes out to clubs, he's packing a .38 snub nose.