Revolver accuracy tips

[jdm357]

Maybe I'm just having a bad evening, but I went and shot 50+ rounds in .38 and .357 tonight out of my Taurus model 605. I got some decent shots, but I'm still not able to aim real well. I plan on shooting a lot, but are there some tips to help out with such a small barrel? Should I "work up" to .357's, trying to get a lot better with the .38's? I like shooting .357's a lot more. I can handle the recoil decently. I am shooting from 5, 7, and 10 yards, and I figure I should be able to hit closer patterns than I am right now. My "Papaw" used to shoot revolvers a lot, but he has told me " you need at least a 4" barrel for accuracy ". How did you all (who shoot 2" .357's) start shooting fairly accurate? I realize it takes time. I just don't want to get started on any bad habits. I'm fully willing to practice, it just seems kind of disheartening when I can barely get decent patterns from 5 yards.. then again, it's been a long day. I'm going shooting again on Saturday (if it's not raining), and those seem to be my best "shooting days".

[MikefromNC]

Dry fire a LOT. I use a door knob across the room as my point of aim when I dry fire, and concentrate on keeping the gun from deviating from my POA throughout the trigger stroke. Practice a LOT with .38 loads at the range. Concentrate on front sight, proper trigger finger placement, and for goodness sake, it is a close range gun! Don't expect it to be a fifty yard ten-ringer (although there are exceptions=Bob Munden, but he does this stuff for a living). The hardest thing in a short barrelled revolver is to keep from yanking the muzzle off target when you are pulling the trigger, which is a hard thing to do with a double-action only gun. It may help to "stage" your shots at first (just for practice, I know you can't do this in a real life self defense situation, but for practice and improving accuracy only). You squeeze the trigger slowly, keeping sights lined up and muzzle from wavering. Hold your stroke until JUST before the sear releases, steady muzzle, then complete the stroke. It's like setting up a shot for a single action revolver, then lightly touching off the final step in the process. After a while, as you get more familiar with your gun the whole process will start to feel natural, and your groups will tighten up. Now like I said, this is just for range work/dry firing practice. When I practice draw and shoot at close range (21 feet or less), I am just looking to hit center mass as many times as I can. I can truthfully say I would NOT want to be on the other end of my snubby should need ever arise! Be realistic in what you expect out of that particular platform, and if you want to get better at longer ranges, it will give you an excuse to buy another gun more suited to that purpose, right? Hope this helps some.....

[johnm1]

Shooting a 2" .357 accuratly is a not so easy thing to do. Substitute a 6" barrel and you would be able to see progress fairly quickly. The snub is an animal all its own. When I got my S&W 638 3 months ago I started at 5 yards. I've put over 2000 rounds through it since then and I am still practicing at 5 yards. It has been a slow process to bring the groups onto an 8" reactive target (swinger) and I am still not fast. 15 shots in 30 seconds w/2 reloads and one flyer in the group. But it took most of the 2000 rounds to do even that well.

Now if I do the same thing with my 6" Security Six, the time drops and the accuracy is better. But that is a longer, heavier gun that handles the recoil much better then my or your snub ever will.

I'll bet some of the more experienced in this group can conjur up practice routine that we can follow so we won't get discouraged. I suggest starting close and staying close until you master 5 yards.

My 2 cents worth and worth what you paid for it.

John M.
Mesa, AZ

[Jkwas]

The 605 can be an accurate gun. Here's how I learned how to shoot mine better:
Get some good snap caps, not the cheap plastic ones. I recomend A-Zooms. I blew apart a set of "traditions" caps.
Find an aiming point, like a picture or even the TV set for that matter and practice your double action shooting. Keeping the gun as steady as possible.
A good drill for this is to put a dime on top of the barrel. Dry fire while trying to not allow the dime to fall off. If you can do it about ten times, you're doing pretty good. Shoot mostly 38spl rounds. 158gn is the most accurate. That's what the gun is regulated for. I can't shoot 357's without having to re-adjust my grip after each shot. Follow thru is important. Don't think about the recoil, just get your sight picture, pull thru the trigger smoothly, don't try to stage it by stopping part way. Then when it fires just hang on and let the gun do what it's going to do. Your'e not going to hold it down and the bullet is already gone before it starts moving upward.
Enjoy! Practice is lots of fun :D

[jdm357]

I'm glad to hear from both of you.

When I dry fire (in regards to Mike) should I use spent brass in place of rounds, or does it matter if there's nothing in there? I know they have those snap caps for various calibers, I might have to pick up a few of those. I know some guns can be safely (empty) dry-fired, or have heard as much, is a Taurus model 605 one of those that can dry fire safely?

Both Mike and John, I like your ideas, I'm going to put them to use on Saturday and from here on out.

I just want to feel as comfortable as possible that- since this is my car gun, and increasingly, my carry gun- I'll be able to be responsible and trained if the time ever comes; right now I feel comfortable that if the time ever came to use it in very close range (knife wielding robbery, carjacking, etc.) I would be capable, since I have become comfortable with the gun, and I know what to expect with the recoil. I can point and shoot, if need be. Does anyone know/ have an opinion if there is any distance that you should DEFINITELY be able to hit with the gun that you carry? I realize if you can't aim the thing at all, you have no business carrying it, but I am fairly sure I could hit center mass at ~10 ft, and I don't want to draw it unless I'm sure.

I tend to hijack my own threads..

[jdm357]

oh, glad to hear from you as well, jkwas! I took a long time to write that out (had to go check on my radiator) so you posted while I was writing it. I'll have to pick up some of those good snap caps.

[Don Lu]

Taurus recommends not to dry-fire. I got some A-zooms for my taurus 651, it also has a 2" barrel...like its been said before...just keep on dryfiring (w/caps). Focus on the trigger control and sight allignment. good luck.

[PzGren]

jdm357,

getting good results with a short barreled revolver will really depend on you applying the shooting basics correctly.
With a good grip on the gun and a good trigger pull you should within a very short time be able to hit a regular 9" paper plate at 15 yards. I mean with that after about 100 rounds or less.

Where do you shoot in Southern Indiana? At my old range, Redbrush Rifle range in Newburgh? You can get plenty of advice from the guys there.

[jdm357]

PzGren, I live in Floyd County, just north of Louisville. I wish there was a range around here (without having to cross the river). Luckily, I live in a rural area, so I have a couple options shooting on friends/families property, however I only use one; it's in a clearing in a hollow, so I'm shooting into a fairly steep hill either direction. I'm lucky to have that place, otherwise I'd have to drive down 64W for 45 minutes to get to my next convenient shooting spot in Leavenworth. It'd still be nice to get some live advice every now and then. I think I might head to Louisville and check out a range or two.

[kcshooter]

Manually cock the hammer, and shoot single action only a bit. Keeps from having to fight the trigger pull and allows you to get a feel for the aim and sight picture. When your accuracy is improved in single action shooting, then work again on double action.

[jdm357]

I started shooting a little better today, I believe. Last night I was reading about point shooting, and I tried that. I found out that (at least within 5 yards) I'm a lot better aim doing that than I am sighting up.. however, I still worked on sighting up and I can see some improvement. It seems to jump around a lot, although I'm holding the gun as tight as I can (Massad Ayoob wrote an article in which he mentioned to hold it as tight as you can, even after "tremors" begin).

I think I am going to start training with the sights AND point shooting from now on, half and half. Training for point shooting makes a lot of sense after reading about it.

[bcrash15]

If you can get someone whose a pretty good shot to watch you and see if they can find anything your doing wrong it would help. I'm not particularly good, but I can often look at my targets and decide what I should be doing differently. If your just shooting really wild, it's likely trigger control or something your doing as your pulling that is affecting you. When I first started shooting I had horribly inaccurate groups, and also was shooting fairly low. I slowed my routine down and noticed that right as I was pulling the trigger I was sort of "pushing" the gun forward a little more and it was dropping the barrel.

By the way, I know it would be quite a drive for you from southern Indiana, but out on the east side of Louisville there is a brand new, extremely nice shooting range called Open Range. It's in Crestwood, in Oldham County. They have a 100 yard indoor rifle range too. I also know there is one or two closer to the center of Louisville, but have never been to them. It might be worth it to go to a range a few times if for nothing else than to ask for pointers.

[jdm357]

I was actually considering going to Open Range today if it had rained, but luckily I got out early enough to be able to shoot outside. It's somewhat of a long drive, but it's really not that bad, I could probably be there in 25-30 minutes I would guess. I'm going to try and make it over there next weekend, I think.

[PzGren]

For accuracy it should be a firm, not a cramped grip. Tighten the grip until the tremors begin and then release until the tremors stop. Also, do not lemon squeeze, i.e. do not press with the tips of the fingers. On a two handed stance, do not lean back. This is the most common mistake and will not allow one to become a fast and proficient shooter.

Shoot really slow and think about the basics, grip, stance, straight trigger pull before every shot and watch how you came off. Evaluate every shot afterwards, you should be able to tell where your shot landed, even if you cannot see it.

It's not a lot of action and fun but the reward will be that you will be an above average handgunner and that you can get there with just a few boxes of ammo.

[3-fitty-7]

the one thing that made me a better shot w/ the .357's was adding ear plugs with my ear muffs. i shot about 500 rounds of magnums before realizing this and every time i would go from .38's to mags my first 10 shots wouldn't even be on the paper at 20 feet and as the session would go i noticed the groups rising from the low right so i got snap caps and wore them out, practiced my stance but when i got to the range i would still flinch. i didn't know why at first because the recoil even in my snub wasn't bad at all but i started realizing by the end of the box of mags i was getting a headache and my right shoulder was feeling sore from the flinch. so i added ear plugs to the muffs and the first time i ever tried it all 100 rounds were in the ten ring from 20 to 55 feet. give that a try if you haven't already and try pushing with you right hand and pulling with your left and staying on your front sight at all times and let me know how that works out for you. good luck!

[Peter M. Eick]

My best accuracy tip is to shoot. I don't dry fire, but I do try to shoot a lot. Now when you shoot, I want you to concentrate on the front sight and never lose sight of it during recoil. The next step is to never shoot less then 50 shots per target. It takes concentration to put 50 in a row into the same general hole.

Now get out that and shoot 10 to 20 thousand rounds a year for a decade or so. That is how I got to this but I still need to work at it:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/single_action.jpg

50 shots per target, 15 yards, 1939 Registered Magnum, offhand, stout load of 2400 with a 158 slug.

[358minus1]

In addition to everything the others mentioned, try shooting with your hands resting on a bench. Do this at 5 yards to make sure your sight picture is correct, try single and double action. Do this until your double action shooting has similar groups to your single action shots. Initially, if you have a large difference betaween SA and DA, then you know you have to work on your grip and trigger control. Also, doing this using SA, you get a pretty good feel for what the gun is capable of.

[PigPen]

Their are several things that we amateurs have to remember to shoot fairly well.

1st is grip. A modified Weaver works for me. No Roy Rogers, single handed shots. I will try to describe the right handed version. Grip the Pistol with your right hand. Your trigger finger (Index finger) should be extended alongside the trigger guard until pointed at the target and ready. Then insert the trigger finger enough to engage the trigger but no further. The right arm should have no more than a slight bend at the elbow.

The left hand should support the firearm and right hand. Remember to keep it below the flash of the cylinder and that the slide retracts after firing. Stay off it and away from the hammer!

Head should be leaning to the right looking down the extended arm at the sight. This may be the most important thing of the entire stance. Front sight, front sight, front sight! The eye will automatically center the sight in the slot of the rear sight.

Stance is one of being relaxed and comfortable. Feet pointed at the target about shoulder width apart. The foot on the shooting side should be about half a foot length farther back. This should be a comfortable steady position. When all is set, lean forward just a little, and lean your head over to your right shoulder to look down to see the sight.

Trigger pull is another primary cause of being off target. It should be smooth and straight back. This is best practiced at home with an empty firearm. You want the trigger break to come as a surprise so do not focus on the break coming. Focus on the front sight! and no jerking.

What did I forget? Oh I know! Do not, Do not get into the habit of looking to see if you hit the target!!You can look after you finish firing. If you get into the habit of looking, you will raise your head to soon and pull the shot. Trust me on this one.

If you learn to do these thing well, you will shoot reasonably well.

PigPen

[gvf]

Don't care where it goes, don't try hard.

Just keep your body alert and relaxed. I don't take a long time to aim, though mine is for CCW purpose so that's got a reason. But I just fire when sight first travels to center, only thing I have in mind is smooth and moderate-tempo trigger-pull so it won't jerk.

I also rest and take my time between shot-groups. After 20 min, I go out and have a coke. Look at the outdoors to rest my eyes. Stretch a little. Then come back for awhile. After an hour, bye, bye.

That's it. My goal is most shots in 8" circle at 20'-25'. And of course closer. That's fine for now. I'm a new shooter and am satisfied with that as a start. And I can do that after about 2 mos of shooting.

O yeah, I keep both eyes open - it's natural for me anyway - and feels natural and relaxed.

[ronto]

Probably an over-simplification, but after mastering the basics (grip,stance,trigger control,front site concentration, breathing,etc.), my biggest problem was flinching in anticipation of the recoil and noise. After awhile I just got mad and said screw the recoil and noise, held the gun steady,concentrated on the front site, locked my wrist and just about "willed" the bullet to go where I wanted it to go...Sometime it pays to be stubborn.
Another thing that helped steady the gun was to lightly push forward with the strong hand and, at the same time, lightly pull back with the weak hand.

[grymster2007]

I’m not a particularly experienced shooter. Over the last couple of years I’ve sporadically gone to the range or to camp and shot a hundred or so rounds here and there. I’d sometimes shoot with a guy that’s very good and he’d give me tips and I’d practice a bit, but I could never really get very good at it. That is until just recently. The last couple of times out, I found myself shooting much more accurately. It just felt right; all of the things I’d learned and practiced finally and unconsciously came together. Calmness enveloped me and I knew the shots were going to go where I wanted. And they did. Time after time.

I quickly learned that it is platform-independent. It started with a revolver, but carried over to the wife’s GLOCK 17; a gun we’ve had for a long time and I never could shoot straight until now.

I would certainly not consider myself an expert, but I’m much happier with my shooting and not nearly as frustrated. The moral of this is learn everything you can and with enough practice, you’ll stop consciously thinking of all the things you need to do to shoot well and it will all come together. And you will know it when it happens.

grym

[Bellevance]

Thanks, grymster. Good, confidence-building advice.

[grymster2007]

Your welcome Bellevance!

I do feel obligated to point out that while after some hard work and frustrating experiences, I’m a much improved shooter, but I will not be challenging Mr. Peter M. Eick to a duel, anytime soon! That may come after considerable, additional practice… or maybe not!

grym

[jdm357]

I agree grym, very encouraging! Thanks!

[newerguy]

If you are practicing for combat shooting, do not shoot single action, do not "stage" your trigger pull. Either one is a bad habit that you can't afford to get into. You can shoot slow, and you can pull the trigger slowly at first. You probably should. When you pull the trigger, you finger should never stop moving, and should never slow down. It should be one continuous squeeze.

Next, grip the revolver relatively high on the frame. The trigger shouldn't hit you hand when it comes back, but otherwise you want up high. Revolvers are designed to kind of naturally fit you hand when you grip it correctly.

Remember, when you pull the trigger you want the trigger to come straight back, which is not the same motion as just closing your hand into a fist. Your finger has three joins, one at the knuckle, one in the middle, and one before the tip. You take you hand, make a loose fist with your index finger out. bend it 90 degrees at the middle joint like it was on a trigger. Practice moving you finger straight back, and you'll see that it's a little different that just making a fist.

Shoot a lot. You need to shoot thousands of rounds to get really good with a DA revolver. My work schedule interferes with my range time 6 months out of the year. I just got done with my "busy season". (which means until last night, I slept 20 hours in 5 days, and had been called into work one day each weekend, and two night at 0430, and I'm on 24 hour call every day from January till the end of June). So, I made two trips to the range this year. Same thing last year, except from July to December I shot 12 times, and over 1,800 rounds (I counted box lids two weeks ago, because we were having a discussion at work).

Finally, have someone load three rounds into your revolver at random (three left empty), and have them watch you shoot to make sure you don't flinch.

[nutty ned]

Dry fire or use snap caps as you wish. Sight in on a blank piece of typing paper so you have no distraction of trying to see the sights and picking out a tgt. Then concentrate on the sights and shooting form + trigger pull.
Sounds silly; but, some high priced shooting coaches have recommended the blank white paper thing.

[IM_Lugger]

shoot in single action...

[gopack]

Lot's of good advice. Might as well throw my 1 cent in. I don't think you are going to win any Bullseye competitions with a snubbie, but the ones I've fired shoot reasonably well. The grip should be firm enough to hold the pistol through the shot, but not so hard that you quiver. Then it's just a "simple "matter of front sight alignment and trigger pull. I'd shoot .38's initially. Not quite the recoil or the price of ammo. Shoot deliberately. If you don't feel the shot is there, don't take it. That's better than trying to "snatch" the shot.